Blue Dot and cold weather?

[faustus]

Ok, I am planning to load up a couple more 2oz 12ga loads with Blue Dot powder. However, I am hearing that Blue Dot doesn't really work well in very cold temperatures .... so I am wondering? Hmmmm ...

Has anybody any experience with Blue Dot and cold weather?

And when I say cold weather I mean something like -10C to -20C ... and which is equivalent to 14 to -4 Fahrenheit.

Has anybody experienced any issues with Blue Dot?

[Treeman]

Personally experienced issues? No......but I never used Blue Dot in shotshells and gave it up in metallics after others reported cold temperature weirdness.

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, I am planning to load up a couple more 2oz 12ga loads with Blue Dot powder. However, I am hearing that Blue Dot doesn't really work well in very cold temperatures .... so I am wondering? Hmmmm ...

Has anybody any experience with Blue Dot and cold weather?

And when I say cold weather I mean something like -10C to -20C ... and which is equivalent to 14 to -4 Fahrenheit.

Has anybody experienced any issues with Blue Dot?

Yes I have had experience, all good. I need to find where I put those notes, because this same myth keeps coming back over and over. I ran both a handgun load and two shotgun loads in 70 degrees F, and -15 degrees F to compare. As expected, velocities dropped, but they were about as consistent as summer temps.

As far as I can gather, the single source of this myth is an old gun magazine where some wingnut had taken some handgun reloads out in -35 degree F blizzard to hunt bobcat. He found that pressure had spiked. What is that based on? Flattened primers, hard extraction? Maybe the cases froze in the cylinder in the blizzard? It has never been replicated in a lab.

In anecdotal experience, I find bluedot likes pressure, and it likes resistance/payload. In 12 gauge, It's right at home with 1 3/8 oz and heavier loads. When you try and use it for the light stuff like some slugs, or the 125 grain in 357 mag burners, you get a giant fireball, and often less than desirable results. 32 grains behind a 1 3/4 oz load had little flash and bang, and very consistent. That 1 3/4 oz load is one I tested at -15 degrees, it lost about 80 FPS if I remember right. I also used it to good effect on a coyote on a cold winter day. For what you are doing, you will have no problems.

[labradigger1]

I use blue dot and alliant steel in my 10 gauge waterfowl loads. Blue dot will fall off a bit IF it is very cold but if it’s that cold out the lab and will chill out on the couch.

[leadhead 500]

Loaded up thousands of heavy 10 and 12 gauge magnum hunting loads with Blue Dot and have hunted In temps below zero and NEVER had any issues with any of the loads

[longbow]

I have heard and read the same thing but not experienced it. I've been out slug shooting in -15 C weather using Blue Dot with no problems.

I believe BPI comments on Blue Dot being hard to ignite in cold weather but regardless, I have read about poor ignition in cold weather elsewhere... just so far not my experience.

As msm commented, Blue Dot seems to like a heavy payload and/or pressure. No surprise since it is a slow burning powder.

I have used BD under 1 oz. slugs with moderate loads and had no problems except that it seemed to be pretty dirty so likely not an efficient burn (too low pressure). Accuracy seemed fine though and all the BOOOOOMS were the same as far as I could tell.

Longbow

[DIRT Farmer]

I quit using blue dot when in cold weather when 1 5/8 loads of steel shot would not cycle my Mag 10 while goose hunting. This was during the change over from lead to steel. State areas required steel, none was avatable in 10. To be honest the 12 ga factory steel loads functioned poorly and I never remember any one bringing a goose down with steel in really cold weather, I have heard the shot smack the bird but they kept flying. Luckily the loads have improved "some"

[OnHoPr]

I have seen similar circumstances as DirtFarmer at the same era. MI started to go to steel shot for waterfowl in the late 70s. It started in the Waterfowl Management areas first and after those experiences we ran away from the steel shot zones to shoot lead. This was until steel shot went state wide, sheeeezt. I believe Rem steel back then used 800X as it has such a great smell. To bad they could not use that in biscuits and gravy. Steel shot was pretty bad back then. You would have a couple of mallards hovering in the wind 25 yds up looking down on you in the blind checking you out and we would raise up and start blasting 5 rds 2 from a sxs and 3 from a pump. Heck they were sitting in the wind like balloons or a paper plate and then they would fly away, tootaloo.lol Most birds were head/neck or wing break cripples that needed to be polished off. We might have had a problem in the colder temps with the steel too.

But, I used to reload, ahhh, IIRC 36 gr BD in a 2 3/4 hull with standard Win 209 WAA12 R wad and 1.5 oz of 5 shot. Killer squirrel and duck load above 35 degrees, but when ice started forming in the marsh a lot of bloopers happened. The WAA12 R wad is a really soft wad though. It probably needs something stiff and heavy to function properly like steel powder, or at least stiff. But, they were published loads though. I might have had problems with the RP12 too, though some of the blame could have gone to the standard 209s.

[megasupermagnum]

I have seen similar circumstances as DirtFarmer at the same era. MI started to go to steel shot for waterfowl in the late 70s. It started in the Waterfowl Management areas first and after those experiences we ran away from the steel shot zones to shoot lead. This was until steel shot went state wide, sheeeezt. I believe Rem steel back then used 800X as it has such a great smell. To bad they could not use that in biscuits and gravy. Steel shot was pretty bad back then. You would have a couple of mallards hovering in the wind 25 yds up looking down on you in the blind checking you out and we would raise up and start blasting 5 rds 2 from a sxs and 3 from a pump. Heck they were sitting in the wind like balloons or a paper plate and then they would fly away, tootaloo.lol Most birds were head/neck or wing break cripples that needed to be polished off. We might have had a problem in the colder temps with the steel too.

But, I used to reload, ahhh, IIRC 36 gr BD in a 2 3/4 hull with standard Win 209 WAA12 R wad and 1.5 oz of 5 shot. Killer squirrel and duck load above 35 degrees, but when ice started forming in the marsh a lot of bloopers happened. The WAA12 R wad is a really soft wad though. It probably needs something stiff and heavy to function properly like steel powder, or at least stiff. But, they were published loads though. I might have had problems with the RP12 too, though some of the blame could have gone to the standard 209s.

I'll throw the BS flag on this post. I should have all of those components, it looks like it will be below freezing next week. I'll load some, and shoot them. I'll see if we get any bloopers.

Spoiler: They will all go bang

[Walks]

I had a buddy call me from N.C. last January. His Cowboy loads with Unique were acting erratic. He was shooting in 20degree weather. He wasn't much of a
reloader, I think .45 COLT was it. Told him to switch to Clays. I guess the newer powders are less sensitive to temperature ranges.

I also told him to get his hairy old butt inside before he froze to death.

[tomme boy]

The BD bloopers was NOT BS! There were lots of guns blown up because of it also. There was one extreme to the other using it. It had its growing pains at first. You HAD to use a mag primer. But all mag primers were created equal. There was just not that much data at first. Lots of people were wildcating loading it at first.

[megasupermagnum]

The BD bloopers was NOT BS! There were lots of guns blown up because of it also. There was one extreme to the other using it. It had its growing pains at first. You HAD to use a mag primer. But all mag primers were created equal. There was just not that much data at first. Lots of people were wildcating loading it at first.

Back in the 70's or whenever Bluedot first came out, I might believe it. Lots of guns blown up from it? Straight BS, never even heard rumors of that before. I've been loading Bluedot for about 15 years, family has been using it since the 80's. Zero guns blown up, zero problems.

I don't know why it bothers me so much, probably because Bluedot is my favorite powder, very mild mannered, very predictable, and it's versatility is unmatched by any other. Please, if you have a first hand experience, feel free to share. None of the "I heard from uncle Jim that Bluedot bloopers just bounced pellets off the birds." Bluedot spiking, and Bluedot bloopers from proper loads have never once been repeated in a lab. They have never been experienced in my testing over a chronograph, which problems would show up way before a bloopers. The suggestion that Bluedot will shoot great at 40F and not even ignite at 20F is just ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous really, why would they keep making a powder that doesn't work for 40-50 years straight?

[faustus]

...
There were lots of guns blown up because of it also.
...


Ok, I am pretty new to reloading .... but how can you blow up a gun with Blue Dot??? I mean it is such a slow burning and "forgiving" powder .... ???

Either there is something wrong with the gun or barrel ... or you had an obstruction in the barrel ... or you really messed up when reloading ... like double powder charge, etc. .... but that has nothing to do with Blue Dot as a powder ...

Am I missing something here??

[faustus]

Thanks everyone for the input so far .... much appreciated!

However, can we keep this thread to actual experiences? Meaning what you have personally experienced with Blue Dot and under what circumstances you experienced it! And not what you heard or what your friend's friend experienced or heard .... or what you saw on YouTube.

And to make my point ... here an anecdote:

A couple of years ago I was considering buying a rifle. A friend of mine said: "You don't need a rifle to hunt deer ... you can shoot a deer with a shotgun out to 230 yards. Just get a shotgun! You really need to watch Hickock45's video!". So, I watched the video ... and in my mind I thought .... wow ... great ... I just need to get one of those 30 inch shotguns with a bead sight and I can hunt deer out to 200 yards. That sounds great ... and I followed my friends advice and bought my first smoothbore.

Now, a couple of years later I "know" a bit more. And I am saying "I know", because I know from personal experience and not from somebody saying or hearing something ... or my friend telling me ... or watching a video on YouTube. I "know" because I have experienced it myself.

I have tested all my shotguns with different kind of slugs and I realized that my practical limit to hit a 9 inch pie plate consistently with a smooth bore is around 50 - 80 yards. So, we are far far away from hunting deer with those guns at 200 yards .... :-( ... How could I believe I could hit a deer size target at 200 yards with a 12ga rifled slug out of a 30 inch bead sighted smooth-bore barrel? Well, it doesn't matter now ... but there was a time I believed just that! :-(

So, please can we talk about what we really "know" .... what we personally observed ... what we personally experienced ... what happened to us ... to me the person that is sitting behind the keyboard posting here ...?

Thank you!

p.s.: Today I take my friends advice with a grain of salt .... but I am also thankful, because he is the reason why I am tinkering today with shotguns .... and having lots and lots of fun doing so ... :)

[Treeman]

Faustus, I respect your desire to keep things to personal experiences.....and have to repeat that I never experienced an issue personally. I would like to give a reference to published test results for those who are interested. The magazine article about high pressures in handguns referenced by megasupermagnum was written by Bob Milek......I don't remember which magazine or what issue. Regarding shotshell use Carl P. Wood published chrono results in The ABCs of Reloading 5th Edition showing a 292 fps drop in velocity from 68F to 24F and wide variations at the lower temp using Blue Dot. It doesn't prove that it always performs poorly in cold temps but it shows that it has someone's testing.Wood referenced BPI reporting as the inspiration for his own test.

[tomme boy]

The guns were blown up because in the heat of the ducks coming in and shots going off the people did not know they had a dud and fired another round and still had a wad in the barrel. Seen it happen so don't say it did not happen.

IT DID!!!!!!!!! And just like the factories can not get a SEE! BS! They can they just do not want to admit it. What about the warning for 357 and BD????

Just because YOU megasupermagnum have not heard of it does not mean it has not happened. There are a lot of people that have been around here and around this a lot longer than you and your family.

I have been hunting waterfowl before there was steel and when it came about it was trash. At first we did not have to use it in the fields and that was nice then the anti bs people forced us to use steel there too. I went through all the bs pains of finding a fast load to get the steel to kill. I still shoot some 1oz #3 at 1700fps more than anything. But I like to make sure everything is less than 20 yds.

[centershot]

I have read this thread with some amusement, I do not intend to offend anyone by saying that. ALL of this has been bandied about for years, and yet, the "reported" negative effects stated have not been duplicated in a ballistic laboratory. Does anyone REALLY believe that Alliant would continue to manufacture and sell a canister grade powder to the public if they knew there was a problem with it?? The liability would crush them financially, far outstripping any profit motive! This topic was hashed out pretty well in this thread, give a look:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?33798-Blue-Dot-warning-from-Alliant

As to personal experience - I have used Blue Dot since the early 80's in 12 gauge, .357 & 44 mag loads. No problems whatsoever! I gave up hunting waterfowl about 10 years back but still use BD in turkey & pheasant loads, along with the handgun cartridges. Properly used, it burns cleanly and in the pistol loads, it reduces powder consumption per round by about 20% compared to powders like 2400, 296, etc. It works well for me, always has. There are newer powders available but I don't plan on changing what already works for me.

[OnHoPr]

The OP asked for experiences relating to BD. He received them. Now whether everyone has experienced those issues is another thing. A number of criteria could have changed from the 70s to the earlier years. They could have changed the process of making it or added a stabilizer to the powder. Load development and published data may / probably has changed. Heck you probably might not even find a 60s or 70s hull to test it with. Back then the hulls had cork and paper base wads which many were quite high unlike the one piece formed hulls of today. Back then the higher paper or cork base wads had powder on them then stacked wadding to shot, buckshot, or slug in the hull. They had plastic wads and formed hulls like the AA, but how many hulls do you see now that have a cork base wad? A lot of things changed from the 60s components to the 80s. Like I said it probably needs something stiff and heavier in the loading of it to function properly. There has been many documentation of its temp sensitivity. That is why STEEL was developed.

[megasupermagnum]

The guns were blown up because in the heat of the ducks coming in and shots going off the people did not know they had a dud and fired another round and still had a wad in the barrel. Seen it happen so don't say it did not happen.

IT DID!!!!!!!!! And just like the factories can not get a SEE! BS! They can they just do not want to admit it. What about the warning for 357 and BD????

Just because YOU megasupermagnum have not heard of it does not mean it has not happened. There are a lot of people that have been around here and around this a lot longer than you and your family.

I have been hunting waterfowl before there was steel and when it came about it was trash. At first we did not have to use it in the fields and that was nice then the anti bs people forced us to use steel there too. I went through all the bs pains of finding a fast load to get the steel to kill. I still shoot some 1oz #3 at 1700fps more than anything. But I like to make sure everything is less than 20 yds.

Of course duds can happen, it isn't a problem unique to bluedot though. Then you bring the secondary explosion event into this? It reeks so bad of BS in here I cant even breath.

Bluedot has been made since 1972 according to google. If it didn't work, Alliant would have never kept making it after Hercules.

[tomme boy]

So why did they come out with steel then? To fix the cold weather problems with bluedot! And for you info! I have talked to the powder guys at Hodgdon and the guys at Hornady and they say they can make a SEE on command with a 6mm and a 6.5mm so they are real and they know what makes them happen. I have already posted the names and phone #'s for these people before. about this. Like I said before. Been around this a little longer than some of the others. And have more inside info than others as well.

I have some very good friends that are company owners inside the waterfowl manufacturing community. Lets say I have seen and used a lot of stuff others were never able to. Have talked to and got data from companies that was not available to the public in the early years. So yes I had privileged info.

Here is another thing you are missing. I am talking only about steel shot reloading. I HOPE! You know it is not the same as regular shot reloading as to the pressures involved? This is where the BD had its problems.

I am done with this. Reply if you want. I will not anymore

[BigBore45]

Been using it for years for my pheasant loads. Never a problem. I think this is incorrect information. I have never heard of cold temp messing with blue dot more than any other powder.

[megasupermagnum]

So why did they come out with steel then? To fix the cold weather problems with bluedot! And for you info! I have talked to the powder guys at Hodgdon and the guys at Hornady and they say they can make a SEE on command with a 6mm and a 6.5mm so they are real and they know what makes them happen. I have already posted the names and phone #'s for these people before. about this. Like I said before. Been around this a little longer than some of the others. And have more inside info than others as well.

I have some very good friends that are company owners inside the waterfowl manufacturing community. Lets say I have seen and used a lot of stuff others were never able to. Have talked to and got data from companies that was not available to the public in the early years. So yes I had privileged info.

Here is another thing you are missing. I am talking only about steel shot reloading. I HOPE! You know it is not the same as regular shot reloading as to the pressures involved? This is where the BD had its problems.

I am done with this. Reply if you want. I will not anymore

Yes, I loaded steel shot for 10 years before I realized it was pointless. Factory ammo is too cheap, and effective now. 90% of that time was with Bluedot too. Not one, and I mean not a single blooper in all that time. I used it in 12, and 10 gauge steel shot, and now in 16,12, and 10 gauge bismuth. I've used it in every handgun and rifle I own. I'm not going to talk big, I'm just a regular guy. I don't know much, but I know my way around Bluedot powder. I can't stand people like you who spout garbage, smack talking a product that has existed for almost 47 years now!

STEEL powder exists for the simple reason that Bluedot cannot provide the velocities people wanted from steel shot. That's it. STEEL powder was originally known to be hard to ignite, as a guy like you would know. It too is a good powder, just a much more limited range of load data.

[Blood Trail]

Here’s a pretty good article:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/articleindex/articles/curmudgeon_articles/060329_hotcoldpowder.htm


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[OnHoPr]

Yes, I loaded steel shot for 10 years before I realized it was pointless. Factory ammo is too cheap, and effective now. 90% of that time was with Bluedot too. Not one, and I mean not a single blooper in all that time. I used it in 12, and 10 gauge steel shot, and now in 16,12, and 10 gauge bismuth. I've used it in every handgun and rifle I own. I'm not going to talk big, I'm just a regular guy. I don't know much, but I know my way around Bluedot powder. I can't stand people like you who spout garbage, smack talking a product that has existed for almost 47 years now!

STEEL powder exists for the simple reason that Bluedot cannot provide the velocities people wanted from steel shot. That's it. STEEL powder was originally known to be hard to ignite, as a guy like you would know. It too is a good powder, just a much more limited range of load data.

Hey buddy, your are getting pretty huffy aren't you? I did not lie in my post. If you did not experience similar issues I suppose you did not, but that does not mean that anybody else has not.

Thanx for the post BT.

[faustus]

Here’s a pretty good article:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/bpi/articleindex/articles/curmudgeon_articles/060329_hotcoldpowder.htm


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Thanks BT, that was an interesting article ...