.50-70

[varsity07840]

Does anybody know how fat a bullet you can fit in a .50-70 case? Have a Springfield roller with a .50 bore but .522 groove. I'd been shooting .515s out of it until I had a slug measured for me by Texas Mac.

[KenH]

You'll get plenty of good knowledgeable answers here. Until they're posted I'll give a couple of my ideas. First, are you shooting black or smokeless? I've shot both, but mostly smokeless.

If your bore is slugging at .522", I'd expect to shoot at least a .523" or .524" lubed bullet. Any size bullet can be put into a 50-70 case (within reason). It all depends on your chamber size.

Since you're shooting the brass in the same rifle all the time, you might not even need sizing, perhaps just a tad of neck sizing to hold bullet "snug", not tight.

[curator]

varsity07840:

You may need to do a "throat" cast to determine the size of the chamber and throat/rifling leade. You may need to have a custom mould made for your specific gun. If the chamber is too small to accept the boolit size demanded by the groove diameter, you may be able to use a "heeled' boolit design. I had the same issue with an 1863 Sharps carbine conversion that had a .535 groove diameter but boolits larger than .525 would not chamber in my brass cases even when slightly neck-turned. Veral Smith of LBT made a mould that cast a heeled bullet with .520 section for inside the case mouth and a .537" diameter diameter nose that shot great.

[country gent]

One way to tell is to make a chamber cast of body neck throat and mearsure it up. on the neck dia subtract neck wall thickness x2 then -.001 ( bullet release) for bullet dia.

[varsity07840]

varsity07840:

You may need to do a "throat" cast to determine the size of the chamber and throat/rifling leade. You may need to have a custom mould made for your specific gun. If the chamber is too small to accept the boolit size demanded by the groove diameter, you may be able to use a "heeled' boolit design. I had the same issue with an 1863 Sharps carbine conversion that had a .535 groove diameter but boolits larger than .525 would not chamber in my brass cases even when slightly neck-turned. Veral Smith of LBT made a mould that cast a heeled bullet with .520 section for inside the case mouth and a .537" diameter diameter nose that shot great.

Accurate makes a similar mould that I'm considering. I'm vacillating between a mould or a reline to .515.

[MOA]

If your rifle has fired lots of black you may find doing a chamber cast difficult if there is much pitting. The casting will grip the roughness an pitting to where you will not be able to get it out whole, an therefore not arrive at a casting that will help you with the measurements you are needing. I would get a custom reamer of correct dimensions that would work with my groove measurements and have the chamber reamed and be done with it or get a new barrel with proper chamber and barrel dimensions installed by a good gunsmith. Have fun shooting not fixing.

[Nobade]

Why not just see what the ID of a fired case is? That's how big of a bullet you can use. Any more won't chamber.

[Chill Wills]

Is this Springfield rifle an original roller with Springfield Armory markings?
As you likely know, if nothing else, trying softer lead cast and sized as large as can be chambered, and loaded with BP will go a long way to accuracy.

A picture of the rifle would be fun.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Wish I could remember what writer it was that was loading pulled .50 cal. BMG 750 gr. slugs in the .50 - 70 case, could have been Mike Venturino.Robert

[Nobade]

Wish I could remember what writer it was that was loading pulled .50 cal. BMG 750 gr. slugs in the .50 - 70 case, could have been Mike Venturino.RobertMike knows better than that. Terrible thing to do to an old rifle, and the twist is too slow to stabilize them anyway. Now my friend's 500 raptor, that's another matter. The tracers and incendiarys are great fun in it.

[vagrantviking]

Is this Springfield rifle an original roller with Springfield Armory markings?
As you likely know, if nothing else, trying softer lead cast and sized as large as can be chambered, and loaded with BP will go a long way to accuracy.

A picture of the rifle would be fun.
This would be my advice. Something to try before doing a major rebuild anyway.

Find the fattest bullet that will chamber. Maybe even look for extra thin brass.
Softer bullets will bump-up the most, particularly with a stiff load of black powder.

[DIRT Farmer]

Drop tube black powderin the case, use a card wad with light compression soft bullet on top and shoot. Then fine tune it.

[varsity07840]

Is this Springfield rifle an original roller with Springfield Armory markings?
As you likely know, if nothing else, trying softer lead cast and sized as large as can be chambered, and loaded with BP will go a long way to accuracy.

A picture of the rifle would be fun.

Yes. It's a Springfield 1871 2 band. Same "go to half cock on closing" action as the NY State 3 band. I misspoke on the groove size.It's actually .524. It came as quite a surprise as I was expecting around .515 which is what my 1868 TD has. With the exception of casting from a custom mould, it's tough to find a government style bullet at .526 or larger. I think I may try Accurate's heeled .530. It has a .520 heel and I can size the nose to .526. No worries about if it will chamber. It's relatively short which the slow twist needs.

[Good Cheer]

Varsity, I've got a pretty close to pristine Ideal 50-70 mold at the house.
It's #518145.
229610.
Shoot me a message if you're interested and this weekend I'll dig that rascal out.

[Chill Wills]

I don't have any better ideas than anyone else on a correct size bullet mold other than the Steve Brooks kinda fix, BUT, for some fun, you might be able to get a 54 cal round ball to shoot with not too much trouble. I have shot some 0.535" RB's squeezed to fit my normal size 50 barrel.
A 0.530" RB would be closer yet to 0.524".
Just a thought.

[Lead pot]

Wish I could remember what writer it was that was loading pulled .50 cal. BMG 750 gr. slugs in the .50 - 70 case, could have been Mike Venturino.Robert

I remember reading that many years ago. I think it was from the Wolf press in hand loaders or rifle shooter.

A lot of those older rifles were more a .52 caliber then a .50 as well as some of the .44's were closer to a .45.

If you don't want to make a cast using cerrosafe because of fear getting the cast out you can use wax for what you want to find out. Wax will shrink on the inside of the cast and holds the exterior close enough for what you want to see. just very lightly oil the bore and the cast will push out with a cleaning rod.

[varsity07840]

I don't have any better ideas than anyone else on a correct size bullet mold other than the Steve Brooks kinda fix, BUT, for some fun, you might be able to get a 54 cal round ball to shoot with not too much trouble. I have shot some 0.535" RB's squeezed to fit my normal size 50 barrel.
A 0.530" RB would be closer yet to 0.524".
Just a thought.

Last night I was able to squeeze a .526 round ball in a case and chamber it. So, it looks like I may send a Lee .515 to Hollow point mold and have them open it up to .528 so I can size it back down to .526. I was going to go with the heeled bullet but it only has one grease groove and it's exposed, which I don't like.

[varsity07840]

Varsity, I've got a pretty close to pristine Ideal 50-70 mold at the house.
It's #518145.
229610.
Shoot me a message if you're interested and this weekend I'll dig that rascal out.


Thanks for your thought. I have a .518 mold for my Gallagher that Ray Rapine once told me shoots good in a .50-70. Maybe it'll bump up enough in pure, or 40:1 lead.

[Good Cheer]

If it's heavy enough and soft enough it probably will.
Might need a gas dam behind it to help seal off, hard card or some such.

About that over sized bore 45-70 years ago, the chamber just wouldn't take a boolit big enough to fit the barrel. Perhaps your 50-70 is a similar situation.

[varsity07840]

I ordered a .526 mound from Accurate yesterday. It has a .515 base with a beveled bottom that should make it easier to start in the case. The bullet is listed as .522 but there’s no upcharge to grow it to .526. To me, that’s a custom mound at a stock price. I’m impressed with the way they take your order, mine being to cast “at least” .526, and, they factor in the type alloy you’re going to cast with.
Thank you Accurate.

[StrawHat]

NOE makes a hollow based boolit mold for the 50/70, two of them actually. I have used the heavier in my sporterized 1866 but the newer lighter boolit is certainly interesting.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=44_130

Kevin

My mistake, the lighter boolit is 510 diameter.

Kevin

[varsity07840]

Update. The bore is .5012. Groove is .5245. I've loaded a .526 bullet in the case using a CH4D M type expander. The case mouth bell was removed by running it through a full length sizer die. The rounds drop in easily and extract smoothly. Should I have any concerns about pushing that .526 bullet through the .5012 bore? Feedback will be appreciated.