Advice sought on harder lube

[epj]

I am currently casting and sizing .45, .357, and 9mm. I am sizing on a Lyman 4500 that does not have a heater. My present lube is the old standby 50/50 alox/beeswax. It seems to do a good job as far as preventing leading, but is sort of messy. I'd like to use something a little harder, or less messy. I realize I'll probably have to add a heater to the 4500. I didn't have a leading problem with commercial cast bullets that were too hard, lube like a crayon, and in some cases too small. I am using straight wheelweight metal, water dropped. Velocities are all under 1000 fps, except the 9mm, which is usually around that number.

My main problem with the current lube is having to clean the bullets and cases after loading. Since I load in significant volumes, this extra step is a real pain. What's a good lube to solve my problems? Heat required? If so, any suggestions as to homemade heaters, or is it best just to spend $30 and get the factory model?

[dromia]

Why are you having to clean the cases and boolits after loading?

How is the lube getting onto them, is it during the bullet seating step in the process?

You shouldn't be getting lube on the cases and the only lube on the boolits should be in the grooves.

Are you case mouth expanding sufficiently?

[wiljen]

I run Felix lube with a tablespoon of carnauba wax added without a heater in a lyman 45. That would be worth a try. 50 / 45 / 5 Beeswax / Alox 350 / Carnauba works well too and stiffens up 50/50 without making it require heat. The recipe for Felix is available in classics and stickies.

[epj]

Why are you having to clean the cases and boolits after loading?

How is the lube getting onto them, is it during the bullet seating step in the process?

You shouldn't be getting lube on the cases and the only lube on the boolits should be in the grooves.

Are you case mouth expanding sufficiently?

The bullets and cases get lube on them off my fingers from handling the lubed bullets. The bullets are wiped after sizing, but I still get some on my hands. The really small bullets, like the 120 gr. TC bullets are very difficult to handle without touching the grooves, but even the 200 gr SWC .45's are going to get some lube in places I don't want it.

[44man]

I can't avoid a whole LOT of lube with the soft Felix I use since I don't usually size. I have to constantly clean everything incuding the dies.
On those that need sizing I use Carnauba Red and it does need some heat.
I just warm the sizer with one of those heat guns I use for model airplane covering. Once warm I can do all of my boolits without re-heating.

[epj]

I was just looking at the carnauba red as well as the mixture of the cr and alox. The latter doesn't need heat. I have a heat gun, so I could try heating with it. Don't want to get too carried away and break the 4500. I understand they aren't too stout. I seem to remember years back my buddies 450 had a hose clamp around the lube cavity where it was cracked. He never used anything but 50/50.

[GabbyM]

Lar45's BAC is easy to work with. Still soft enough to work well in low pressure loads. Runs without heat in the summer. On a chilly morning like this one you'll need a drop light or such to warm it up. Just hang the light next to the heater for five minutes or so.

He has his 2500 also which is stiffened 50/50. I've not tried it but I think it's supposed to be even less messy. Link to his shop is at the bottom of page.

The trick to running the BAC or his Carnauba Red is to run it at as low a temp as will pump. Just a little to much heat and they get sticky. You'll wnat to give them a try before going to hard lube. If you've a box full of 50/50 lube you're tired of buy some Carnauba Red and melt it equal parts with your 50/50. That will give you a lube close to BAC and use up your 50/50.

[epj]

Looks like I need to get in touch with Lars45 and determine if I want the BAC or the 2500. :confused: I might even go the the Carnauba Red, if my heat gun is suitable to use to heat the material.

[fecmech]

Pistol and revolver cases get gunked up from blowback from the firing sequence itself. The old 50/50 alox lube after 100 rds would have the whole revolver sticky from lube after firing magnum loads.
A good heater for your 4500 is simply put an aluminum or steel plate under it that extends behind the sizer and set a clothes iron on it. Turn the iron on low and the heat will transfer to the sizer. The iron has a temp control so you can regulate the heat and irons are cheap at garage sales and Salvation Army stores etc.

[Echo]

Another heat source is a drop-light - I use one because I had it. Lay that boy next to the lube-sizer magazine for a few minutes and it warms enough for a while. You will learn how long to leave it on...

[mtgrs737]

I use BAC with about a 3/8" slice of Carnuba Red added to the stick of BAC. I melt them together stir and pour in my Stars and Lyman 450's, it adds a little firmness to the lube. I do use a small amount of heat as I lube in a cool basement, I use a Midway heater or a reostat controled Lyman heater. The straight BAC works I just wanted a little less sticky lube for ease of handling. I buy the solid sticks as I melt them anyway. I use a second hand store pan for melting and a funnel made from a cut off 2 liter pop bottle top so that I can toss the funnel after I am done, to keep the area clean. One thing I did learn the hard way was never to install the Star's lube resevior plunger/screw assembly until the lube has cooled and solidified or the vent hole becomes a squirt gun orfice! What a mess you can make in a hurry!

[leftiye]

Maybe modify your process to keep yer fingers off of the boolits (tweezers)? Maybe let your boolits set overnight after sizing.

[Dale53]

I changed my lube preferences from NRA 50/50 Beeswax/Alox some time ago to Lars Red Carnauba. I use a heater with my Star, RCBS. and Lyman lube/sizers. Just use the least heat needed. My lube heater is the Lyman aluminum base style (same heater for all three lubers). I use a rheostat from a Dremel mototool. You can easily make one from a lighting rheostat.

Punch line:
The Red Carnauba is much nicer to handle, has a higher melting point, and when shooting my revolvers, I stay MUCH cleaner. The accuracy is still excellent. Add to that the most reasonable cost for Lars lubes and how can you go wrong?

Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

I make my own for the most part but two comercial lubes that really do work that are a tad harder are lbt blue (expensive) and lars 5050 mix of carnauba and alox (much cheaper) both seem to work equally well. Alot of guys talk highly of bullshops lube too but ive never tried it so i cant give my recomendation on it.

[epj]

This is great info. Keep it comming. Leaning toward the Carnauba Red, since it apparently can be used without heat in a warm room. Maybe it's a margainal deal on the heat?

[johnho]

I have used Magma's lube on 45's and 38's with never a problem. You do need a heater but for the price of their lube it is easy to justify (unless they went up in price for their lubes).

[johnho]

Just went to Magma web site and don't see where they list lube anymore. Remember last time I order a LOT for about $1.25 per solid stick.

[runfiverun]

magma sells it by the pound which is about 9 sticks.
i have been mixing lars's carnuba red with jakes ceresin and some 50/40 and other stuff
together in equal parts and it s satisfactorily hard and slippery at the same time.
does need a touch of heat though [which was my goal] a better hard lube.
but lars's carnuba red all by itself would be fine, as is jakes purple.
i have taken both of these to 2200 with good accuracy.

[epj]

From what I'm seeing here, it looks like the Carnuba red is what I'd like to use. However, I have the heat issue. Will a heat gun (real deal-commercial model) do the job, or do I need to spring for the factory heater? Or do I need to try the CR/alox mix that doesn't require heat. Is it enough harder or less sticky that my initial concerns will be met?

Lars has a sampler on eBay for 12 bucks that might answer all my questions.

[runfiverun]

you can just go to the bottom of this page and e-mail him too.
he is a sponser here and his wife is real nice.

[jeffwhetstone]

epj, I have to agree with EasyEd and GabbyM, just get a cheap drop light and use it as a heat source. I did this for years before getting a Star sizer with heater.

If you find the ol' light bulb inconvenient to use, you can always a commecial heater in the future. In the meantime, you can get some experience with harder lubes.