So tell I’m paranoid

[sawinredneck]

I’ve been giving serious pause about my CCW choices lately, with our toxic political environment being as it is, and “group mentality” seeming to run rampant, I’m really wondering if I’m well enough armed!
Currently my two choices are a Ruger LCR in .357mag, five shots, or a Colt Delta Elite, eight shots of 10mm.
It wasn’t that long ago I was preaching “If I need more than five shots, I shouldn’t have been there to start with!” But things have rapidly changed, and I’m not sure I feel that secure with five rounds anymore!
The Delta Elite isn’t going anywhere! Those are just too hard to find! This will be a swap on the LCR with cash either way, or I’ll just buy a SCCY and keep all three dealing with my misgivings of the 9mm.
So someone please talk sense to me! Am I watching too much news, need to chill out, or are my “spidey senses” something I need to listen to?

[Jeffrey]

I am in somewhat the same dilemma. My primary carry is a S&W Chief in 38 special (5 shots). Four extra speed loaders gives me a total of 25 shots on the belt. Easy to carry. I need to order a set of sights for my Series 70 1911 (45acp - thanks for the reminder).
A recent acquaintance, of vast practical knowledge, told me that a handgun is what you use to get to your rifle. Driving into New Orleans every day, I need to figure out a practical way to keep my AR in my vehicle.
As far as the need to chill out or listen more closely to the "spidey senses", I know I would rather have my gun and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Which one to carry? I like a revolver. You pull the trigger - it goes bang. If it doesn't go bang, pull the trigger again. An autoloader can jam about 5 different ways, but no doubt you already know that.

[RKJ]

I started carrying a BHP as I felt my compact 1911 (with 7 round mags) wasn't enough just in case. The 9mm didn't bother me as I figure if I do my part it'll stop the bad guy(s). I have started carrying the 1911 again but with a second mag for a total of 15 rounds which still isn't a lot but better than a sharp stick. I keep thinking I need AR pistol in 300 BO for my car too (the whole group, get to a rifle thing). I live in small town Missouri and I'm more likely to win the lottery or be hit by lightning than I am to be assaulted by a gang of no-gooders but it makes feel safer. I guess I am paranoid but better to be safe than sorry.

[Don Purcell]

There is no rule that says you may be attacked by only assailant. Wolves can easily travel in packs and there is no such thing as too much ammo.

[Dan Cash]

Personally, the idea of fighting your way to your rifle is keyboard commando BS. I carry a rifle in my truck nearly all the time but it would get used for varmints seen from the truck and I live in the country. You need to be proficient enough with your pistol to handle most any situation as that situation will probably be far from access to your vehicle and rifle, particularly in the city. Defensively, in the city or even in the wide open spaces of the country side, a hand gun will suffice. A civilian is not taking on Omaha Beach. If faced by multiple attackers, you probably screwed up but when lead starts flying, thugs tend to find important business elsewhere.

For a civilian providing your own defense, a handgun with a quick reload will probably settle any situation that might arise where your use of deadly physical force can be justified. If there were self defense situations occurring where rifles and vast quantities of ammunition were required, one would hear about it through the American Rifleman or other legitimate news sites.

[MUSTANG]

Many years ago I was with a group Scuba Diving in the "Blue Hole" in Santa Rosa New Mexico. We were camping in the near by Park. About 2:00AM in the morning 3 car loads of the local youth with the appearance of "Gang Bangers" pulled into the campground area with loud music, yelling, and carrying on. I got out of the tent and walked over to the area and told them there were quite a few people (probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30) in the campground trying to sleep; could they go to another location and they could party and we could sleep. A couple started yelling at me and hurling verbal threats; when one pulled a knife, I had enough and pulled the Dan Wesson .357 I had in the small of my back and thumbed the hammer back. One yelled: "What you going to do with that, theres 14 of Us. I simply said: "Only 8 of you will be going home tonight if you make a move towards me or any other camper". They all backed up to their cars; talking trash and moved on never to be seen again.

1. If you are forced into a situation to defend yourself; you have to be prepared to make a stand with what you have. Your not going to be in a bunker with Unlimited Ammo.

2. Calm presentation of the facts, and that some will not be going home will dampen the spirit of most Mobs. It's only when they are allowed to get out of control and "Blood Runs Hot" do Mobs loot, damage property; and threaten life. This can be seen in the actions of Large Scale Mobs such as back in the Watts Riots and the Rodney King Riots when Calm but determined and armed shop keepers property was left alone by the mobs as the waves of looter/rioters flowed around them or backed off when confronted.

3. One must be prepared to defend oneself and others if confronted by a Mob; they can smell a bluff as if it were a pack of wolves able to define a "Victim" prey from a dangerous prey that will fight back.

4. What's the best firearm to have; Why - it's the one you have with you of course. I prefer a 1911 with a spare magazine but seem to only carry that with me in the woods or desert; I carry a Beretta .32 (no spare magazine anymore) because it fits in a back jeans pocket, slacks pocket, or coat pocket when I am out and about in "Civilized" areas - simply because I can do so in a CCW mode easily and always have it with me and little chance of anyone ever noticing.

My thoughts any way.

[JSnover]

For daily CCW I disagree that a handgun is what you need to get to a rifle. A handgun is what you use to stop an attack and/or exit the scene.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

For daily CCW I disagree that a handgun is what you need to get to a rifle. A handgun is what you use to stop an attack and/or exit the scene.

I feel the same way if I need to go back to my truck I'm driving away as far as my CC goes I would like to be able to carry a G19 but a dubbel stack doesn't work for me I will stick with my p938 and 1911

[JBinMN]

Legally carry what you are comfortable with using accurately & efficiently, and use "situational awareness" to keep yourself out of any situations where you may be forced to use your firearm, and you will likely never need to use it. Nor find the need to "get to your rifle.".

IMO, most civilian, non LEO situations where you may need to even draw your firearm, do not even reach the point of a reload, let alone the emptying of the firearm. The whole reason for carrying or even having one is to "end the conflict" quickly, and not carry on a running gunfight. Use it to stop the threat & get your butt out of danger. If it is necessary to "get to your rifle" in most all situations for the "ave. joe or jill" , it is pretty likely that in the end it is not gonna matter what you were carrying, & you are in a very bad situation you likely could have avoided if that were to happen that there was a need for that "rifle". Like was said before, most "thugs" do not wish to continue a conflict when confronted & particularly when the loud bangs happen & deadly projectiles are flying around or into them.

IMO, Use it to stop the conflict &/or get away, not necessarily" get to your rifle"...

That said, I carry every day & rotate between Govt. model(5") 1911 .45SCP, a full size 9mm, with 1 extra mag for each, or a .38, or .357 with 2 extra speedloaders & strips, depending on clothing & other reasons. I also try to make it a point to avoid situations where there would be likely be a need to use any, but sometimes that choice will not be mine to make based on pure "luck of the draw", or Gods' will. So, I will continue to carry, but I want the "peace of mind" to have the ability to reload if I get the chance, and/or have the need for some reason. The extra mags/speedloaders are not that hard to carry & weigh very little in comparison to the possible need & I am carrying a heavier weight already with the particular handgun I chose to carry at the time.

G'Luck! with your decision & IMO, carry what you feel is necessary that makes ya have a bit of "peace of mind". It is your, or a loved ones life that might be on the line. Other opinions really are not gonna matter in the end. Yours does matter, to YOU.
;)

[Plate plinker]

The handgun should suffice while out and away from home. It is a good idea to have at least one spare magazine or speed loader with you just in case. For the concern of a rifle or shotgun I would like one if I came home and some miscreants were stealing from my home or worse. Being firearms owners if word gets around that you own lots of guns you could become a target for theft. I know thats a long shot low percentage scenario but you just never know.

[country gent]

The one plus to using a wheel chair is I can carry a bigger firearm with out issues, Same with reloads. I purchased a setoff the dividers pockets for the armrest for mine and installed them on the inside of the seat area under the armrests. I know have 4 pockets 2 on the outside of the armrests and 2 inside. Being the same material and partially hidden when Im sitting they don't show. I can carry a full sized pistol or even 2 and or reloads as needed.

[Bigslug]

Call it fatalism, call it Bushido, call it military reality. . .Time is the real problem here. I'm of the mindset that if you haven't solved the immediate problem - that probably took you by surprise in the first place - in the time it takes to go through 8 rounds or less of onboard capacity, then you have probably been flanked and destroyed. You may survive that initial engagement and have time to top off to repel another wave; but you can only engage one target at a time, yet you can be engaged by multiple targets at the same time - be it with bullets, knives, or fists. I'd be putting more emphasis on marksmanship skill and the good sense to remain mobile or use cover than handgun capacity, but the hard fact is that 300 prepared Spartan professionals failed to hold Thermopylae against 100,000+ Persians, and the U.S. Navy got clobbered at Pearl Harbor because they didn't see it coming. There's nothing inherently wrong with capacity - it just doesn't seem as thick and warm a security blanket (for the CCW arena) to me as it does to others. Pretty much what you have going for you is that the other guy starts his shenanigans without knowing that you're armed. It can play out a lot of different ways after he figures that out, but running out of rounds isn't at the top of my "possible bad outcomes" list. YMMV.

[rintinglen]

If there are enough of "them" your multiple spare guns and Mags ain't going to make much of a difference. Too often, a focus on high capacity rather than on marksmanship leads to a "pray and spray" mentality that results in a lot of misses. Now it is true that, unless you fall in a river, more is better when you speak of ammo, what matters most is what is in the gun and your ability to send those projectiles where they will do the most good. It is not possible to miss fast or often enough to exceed the effectiveness of one hit.

[Love Life]

Dang, and here I was feeling adequately armed with a good fixed blade. It’s amazing how people scatter when loud bangs start happening.

[sawinredneck]

Interesting points.
Per getting to rifle: unless I’m at home or defending property, I figure if I can get to a rifle I’ve got the means to escape the situation.
Per mobility: I have none! I’m half crippled up and in and out of a wheelchair. Running, diving and ducking are not things I do well, or quickly. If confronted I’m basically stuck standing my ground.
I’m most proficient with the LCR, I’m deadly accurate with that gun, the DE I’m taking torso shots. That’s why I mainly carry the LCR, and why I got rid of the G19, I just couldn’t shoot that lovely gun to save my life. So confidence does mean a lot to me.
I guess I need to save my pennies up and go rent some guns to shoot if I do decide to change my carry gun.

[Jeffrey]

Personally, the idea of fighting your way to your rifle is keyboard commando BS.

My "acquaintances" are not technically civilians. I have not done a full background check, but given their business, they have "seen the elephant". They are in the business of training their customers in the use of arms. Given the choice, I will run like I have the demons of Hel on my heels. I'm no "keyboard commando". But I have lived 50+ years and survived in and around New Orleans where there is a significant criminal element, 99.99% of which will pass a possibly armed target. Possession and presence of a firearm on my person has prevented an assault on me on more than one occasion. No shots were fired. But the 1911 and the 10-22 in my hands prevented me and mine from coming into further harm.

[Good Cheer]

Fifty plus years around NO? Hoss, you be pushing the odds.
La Place was tough enough for me. But I did enjoy hitting the shuffle board tables in every little out of the way back water we could find. Never any trouble. Always gracious good folks happy for some fresh competition.
Any more my idea of what to carry is myself down the road. Like the realtors say, "Location, location, location."
But I am eyeballing those Charter Arms .45ACP revolvers.

[Jeffrey]

Fifty plus years around NO? Hoss, you be pushing the odds.
La Place was tough enough for me.
LOL I moved away from NO back in '06, not far (65 miles from NO CBD). Close enough to drive in to work, far enough to be 120+' above sea level.

[tazman]

sawinredneck--- To answer your question about being paranoid.-------My gunsmith prepares for what he considers to be a worst case scenario for a person doing concealed carry. He carries either a Glock 34 or the compact version that takes the same magazines. Sorry, but I can't remember the numbers since I don't own one.
Anyway, he carries a lot of extra magazines in his car or truck console that will fit either gun and many of them are 30 round mags. Probably around 200 rounds worth.
He spends quite a bit of time sitting in his vehicle, outside the mall, waiting for his wife to get done with her shopping. He figures if a group of shooters decide to infect the mall, he needs to be able to get his wife out. He uses 9mm for the extra rounds. He expects to be doing a lot of shooting to make the bad guys keep their heads down while he is locating and removing his wife from the scene.
The man is a superb shot. If he were to run into the bad guys before he found his wife, some of them would be hurting, probably permanently.
By his standards, you aren't paranoid enough.

[Plate plinker]

Just get another LCR and carry one on the ankle. New York reload?

[Boogieman]

A wise man once said " you can never have too big a gun or too much ammo".

[TheDoctor]

I pack a XDm 40, 16+1 with spare mag, and am seriously thinking about a second spare mag. And an AR with several spare mags in my vehicle. Not sure what is going to come about, but I feel it is not good.

[osteodoc08]

I too have often thought about keeping my Sig AR “Pistol” in the daily driver but I have concerns with it being hidden and away from smash and grabs and also little hands with my kids. So I just carry, typically, my XDS in 45, or 1911 Commander now that it’s cooler outside with spare mag.

[sawinredneck]

Just get another LCR and carry one on the ankle. New York reload?
I just don’t have the funding, I could scrape up $200 for the SCCY with some effort, but to afford a better gun, I’d need to sell the LCR to fund it.

[Love Life]

I don’t think you are under gunned with the lcr and a speed loader. Especially if you’re proficient with it.

[TaylorS]

XDM in 45 ACP 13+1 of “I don’t feel like reloading yet.” Problem solved or Beretta 92 17+1 of “I think I left my spare mag in the car” your choice [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Bibliotecario]

[QUOTE=MUSTANG;4487862]Many years ago I was with a group Scuba Diving in the "Blue Hole" in Santa Rosa New Mexico.../QUOTE]

I have been through Santa Rosa dozens of times but was not aware there was a 'Blue Hole.' Good to know in the event one needs to dispose of a few gangbangers.

Returning back up the garden path to the original post, my first thought was, why not the on-hand Colt Govt Model in 10mm? I think this cartridge is the caterpillar's spats, but my experience is limited to use in a revolver. If the round's recoil in a self loading pistol is an issue for combat shooting, I would consider hand loading .40 S&W level loads--I understand that round is a popular choice for defense.

I concur with those who emphasize mental preparedness. I suspect this is 90% of the issue, whereas shootists are prone to spend 90% of their time dithering about the perfect weapon.

[sawinredneck]

The Colt does get carried when I assume I might need it, a good holster helps, Galco king tuck. I love the 10mm cartridge, but I’m not nearly as accurate with it as I am with the LCR, it’s BIG and it’s really HEAVY! Really heavy! It’s so much nicer to carry around the LCR. My dream is something around the weight of the LCR with double the capacity of the Colt, big dream, I know.
I really liked the size and weight of the G19 so something that size, that I can shoot, would be fine.
I looked at the XDM online, interesting gun with some well thought out features, I need to see one in person for sure, but I think it’s on the short list now.
I’ve thought about the baby Glock in 10mm, but after handing it, meh, it’s just too small for me, so the baby Glocks are out.

[Earlwb]

I would like to find a lockable metal gun box that is about 18 inches long, 10 inches wide and four or so inches deep to put under a car seat. So far I haven't come across something like that. I was thinking of putting a Kel Tec sub 2000 under the seat. I am considering going to a metals shop and see if someone could bend up one out of sheet metal for me too.

[sawinredneck]

And then I talked to a buddy of mine about it, his response shows how much of a caliber snob I’ve become!

All off the shelf defense loads perform pretty much the same now days
Unless your talking 10 mm or magnums with lite weight bullets.

,u want advice get a gun in a caliber thats cheap to shoot

A gun in a caliber that doesn't get shot much because of expense or it uses to much lead to cast a lot bullets is worthles

Im not the person to get advice from regarding caliber

If it comes out of the barrel ¿ 950 fps or more & weighs 125 grains or more
I simply don't care what caliber it is regarding handguns for defense.

[Idaho45guy]

I really liked the size and weight of the G19 so something that size, that I can shoot, would be fine.

I’ve thought about the baby Glock in 10mm, but after handing it, meh, it’s just too small for me, so the baby Glocks are out.

I don't understand how the G29 was too small but the G19 is perfect. I owned both and they are pretty much the same size. The G29 with a 4.5" KKM 10mm barrel is my woods gun and it is perfect.

Perhaps you handled a G27 or G26. Those are "baby Glocks".

G29 on the left and G19 on the right...

229563

[Idaho45guy]

As far as the thread goes; I'm probably the least paranoid CCWer I know, and even I didn't like the idea of only 6 rounds of .40 S&W as my daily carry piece, so I upgraded to the S&W M&P40c with 10 rounds of .40 S&W...

229564

[Bigslug]

I just don’t have the funding, I could scrape up $200 for the SCCY with some effort, but to afford a better gun, I’d need to sell the LCR to fund it.

On the topic of "what to spend on your defensive weaponry", I once had it put to me by a grizzled old cop in these terms:

"Put your right hand in your back pocket. OK. Now put your left hand in your other back pocket. Now grab a big handful and tell me what that's worth to you"

I'm not here to tell you to take out a second mortgage to buy a Les Baer, but you do probably want to consider that you are, essentially, investing in a parachute. Think carefully about what you're willing to jump out of the plane with.

[sawinredneck]

I don't understand how the G29 was too small but the G19 is perfect. I owned both and they are pretty much the same size. The G29 with a 4.5" KKM 10mm barrel is my woods gun and it is perfect.

Perhaps you handled a G27 or G26. Those are "baby Glocks".

G29 on the left and G19 on the right...

229563
Well color me ignorant! I stand corrected, thank you! It’s listed as “sub-compact” and I guess the thicker slide gives the illusion that it’s smaller than it really is. I’ll have to handle one, if not shoot it, to see if the grip fits my hand better.

[sawinredneck]

On the topic of "what to spend on your defensive weaponry", I once had it put to me by a grizzled old cop in these terms:

"Put your right hand in your back pocket. OK. Now put your left hand in your other back pocket. Now grab a big handful and tell me what that's worth to you"

I'm not here to tell you to take out a second mortgage to buy a Les Baer, but you do probably want to consider that you are, essentially, investing in a parachute. Think carefully about what you're willing to jump out of the plane with.
Oddly enough, those silly SCCY pistols have great reviews and have survived numerous tourture tests very well! For a cheap gun, they are very impressive, a few of my friends have them.
To buy something nicer I’ll have to part with the LCR to fund that purchase, that was my point there.

[JBinMN]

Please define, "SCCY". I am not familiar with that acronym.

[tazman]

Please define, "SCCY". I am not familiar with that acronym.

That isn't an acronym. That is the name of the manufacturer of a line of handguns.
https://www.sccy.com/

[JBinMN]

That isn't an acronym. That is the name of the manufacturer of a line of handguns.
https://www.sccy.com/

Thankya!
:)

[sawinredneck]

Sorry about that.

[RED BEAR]

being on a fixed budget i can fully understand looking for less expensive protection . it amazes me how people are so down on a gun simply because of price. as long as it goes bang every time you pull the trigger and is unreasonably accurate. what else do you need. i see reviews on guns and they have no failures and are accurate enough but then they say but i would not recommend them. i just don't get it. i do have some really nice guns i bought while i still worked. but now to purchase a new gun takes some saving and shopping for the best deal. a sccy is a descent gun that i would have no problem carrying. back to the post i carry two speed loaders or an extra clip depending on what i am carrying. if that ain't enough then i am in way over my head anyway.

[azrednek]

I want to add my two cents for what it's worth. First of all good to be back among the living after a long illness.

What grabbed my attention was the 357 LCR. I used to carry a 357 snubby but began carrying std pressure 38's. While serving as a juror on a grand jury we heard a case involving self defense. Details on the SD shooting were sketchy at best. Good guy shot a bad guy and was cleared as being justified. The good guy however was indicted for a serious assault charge despite mine and another no vote. Bullet went through the bad guy and struck a woman that was in no way involved with the incident. We were told woman had surgery and an overnight hospital stay. I asked cop what kind of gun, he responded 357 and before cop could finish. The prosecutor shut him up and gave me the "this is not CSI" lecture. The cop was not allowed to answer questions in regards to the SD incident.
I have no idea of the final disposition of the case and can only assume after the indictment the good guy had to deal with a serious assault charge.

That night I removed the 357's from my carry gun and began carrying 38's. The laws on stray bullets likely vary state to state. In Arizona despite being a justified shooting the shooter sent a blank check to the innocent woman. As the OP mentioned, crowds or gangs and even if it is a justifiable shooting. The over penetrating bullet could easily buy the shooter some jail time and being tagged for life as a convicted felon and prohibited possessor.

IMHO, the bad guy should shoulder the responsibility but at least in Arizona the good guy likely spent a small fortune in legal fees. Hopefully he had the financial resources, a good lawyer and beat the assault charge.

Lately I've been carrying 380 SilverTips or 9MM Mak HP's. Being a wheel gun guy when I do carry a revolver, it's std velocity lead 38's. I'm going to look into the Charter Arms Pug chambered in 45 Colt. I'll load it with a big heavy slug but keep the velocity mild.

[JBinMN]

Sorry about that.

No need to be. At least on my account.
;)
:drinks:

[JBinMN]

I want to add my two cents for what it's worth. First of all good to be back among the living after a long illness.

What grabbed my attention was the 357 LCR. I used to carry a 357 snubby but began carrying std pressure 38's. While serving as a juror on a grand jury we heard a case involving self defense. Details on the SD shooting were sketchy at best. Good guy shot a bad guy and was cleared as being justified. The good guy however was indicted for a serious assault charge despite mine and another no vote. Bullet went through the bad guy and struck a woman that was in no way involved with the incident. We were told woman had surgery and an overnight hospital stay. I asked cop what kind of gun, he responded 357 and before cop could finish. The prosecutor shut him up and gave me the "this is not CSI" lecture. The cop was not allowed to answer questions in regards to the SD incident.
I have no idea of the final disposition of the case and can only assume after the indictment the good guy had to deal with a serious assault charge.

That night I removed the 357's from my carry gun and began carrying 38's. The laws on stray bullets likely vary state to state. In Arizona despite being a justified shooting the shooter sent a blank check to the innocent woman. As the OP mentioned, crowds or gangs and even if it is a justifiable shooting. The over penetrating bullet could easily buy the shooter some jail time and being tagged for life as a convicted felon and prohibited possessor.

IMHO, the bad guy should shoulder the responsibility but at least in Arizona the good guy likely spent a small fortune in legal fees. Hopefully he had the financial resources, a good lawyer and beat the assault charge.

Lately I've been carrying 380 SilverTips or 9MM Mak HP's. Being a wheel gun guy when I do carry a revolver, it's std velocity lead 38's. I'm going to look into the Charter Arms Pug chambered in 45 Colt. I'll load it with a big heavy slug but keep the velocity mild.

Azredneck,

Welcome back!
:)

Thanks for the "real life" anecdote & info!
:)

[Wayne Smith]

A week and a half ago I went to a Virginia Beach Police training for Church security teams. After the training we had a feedback session. One of the attendees questioned the use of bullet proof vests. The officer running the program answered - "Since you are twice as likely to be struck by lightening than be involved in a shooting situation, if you give them vests you otta give them lightening rods as well. They will be more useful".

Different perspective on the issue - we are more likely to be involved in a child kidnapping (non-custodial parent) than in a shooting situation. We are much more likely to have to deal with a heart attack or other medical emergency - how prepared are we to handle these things?

Yes, I know this varies with locality.

[sawinredneck]

A week and a half ago I went to a Virginia Beach Police training for Church security teams. After the training we had a feedback session. One of the attendees questioned the use of bullet proof vests. The officer running the program answered - "Since you are twice as likely to be struck by lightening than be involved in a shooting situation, if you give them vests you otta give them lightening rods as well. They will be more useful".

Different perspective on the issue - we are more likely to be involved in a child kidnapping (non-custodial parent) than in a shooting situation. We are much more likely to have to deal with a heart attack or other medical emergency - how prepared are we to handle these things?

Yes, I know this varies with locality.
Very good points to consider, thank you.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I carry Benadryl and an EpiPen, just in case. Not planning to have someone around me (or myself) have an allergic reaction etc., but "Just in case" is a good reason to carry SOME goodies. I sorta do some math as in "How important is fixing this" vs "How heavy / bulky is the solution for this?" IMO if your brain's telling you to watch out, might be a VERY good idea to listen and act accordingly!

[Omega]

Ok, I'll add my 2¢. I have carried a GLOCK 23, which is a .40, since the mid to late 80's, but have recently added an XD, also a .40, to the rotation. My only wheelgun is a Ruger BH .44 Mag, and a Uberti 36 cal, both of which are too bulky for a CCW. When I got my first CCW permit, I wanted a compact gun, with decent capacity, and decent knockdown power. I looked at a bunch and due to a used (less than 20 rounds)Glock 23 coming into Jim's Pawn Shop in Fayetteville, NC., for less than $400, I jumped on it. While I had seen the Glocks, I wasn't keen on them, but after getting to shoot it, and reload for it, I became comfortable with it.

Over the years, I have never had to draw it, but I am well rehearsed in doing so and can still put rounds where I want to with it. With experience, I've changed my stance on a couple of things, first is reloads; I carry them, I don't worry about what some prosecutor may say about them, second is passthroughs; I used to look for the magic bullet that could drop a bear in it's tracks but miraculously stay inside the body...BS, I now worry about those strays that completely miss. What I have not wavered on, is to make sure I carry a decent amount of bullets, and that the bullet I carry can do it's job. Practicing with your chosen platform, in it's entirety, is more important than choice of caliber or round count IMHO, because you can't stop what you can't hit.

[sawinredneck]

I agree completely with the proficiency aspect, that’s where my friends input carried a lot of water towards cheaper ammo so you’ll shoot it more comes in. Reloading helps, but brass and components pricing also comes in as well. 10mm brass isn’t the easiest to come by and factory ammo is even more scarce.
I’m leaning more and more towards a 9mm, components are plentiful, factory ammo is plentiful and cheap.
I found the Diamondback DB9 and really like the size and idea of it, but I’m too lazy to carry two guns for a “New York reload”, and seven rounds of 9mm just isn’t enough of an upgrade to make me feel warm and fuzzy. I think the SCCY is about as small as I want to go, it, with to mags, would give me 31rds of 9mm. But a little larger gun gives you the same with just carrying one extra mag.
I’m still liking the Glock 19 size, EEA makes a CZ clone, for a decent price that looks interesting to me.
I really need to go look at some guns and quit looking at micro guns.

[Gray Fox]

I think that regarding the issue of overpenetration by a .357 is often due to a hollowpoint not expanding and performing like a lead round nose. Similarly, shooting a .357 or .38 revolver with either lead round nose or semiwadcutter boolits is probably going to result in over penetration, even with a center of mass hit.

about 15 years ago,oOne of the Federal guard contracts for which I provided training specified the weapon as a 4" .38 special revolver loaded with Remington 110 grain +P hollow point ammunition. According to the Federal contract administrator this ammo was specified by some government "expert" to preclude over penetration because most of the contract armed guards were going to be in courtrooms or Social Security Offices. I have no info as to whether this ammo was ever used on duty or if it performed as specified. GF

[TheDoctor]

A miss is the most over penetration you will get, regardless of bullet type. Hence, I carry loads for I consider "worst case". And I pack a lot of them. Probably need to think about carrying more, and or a second gun. Always have at least one extra mag. Whatcha gonna do if your only mag craps the bed on you? Never talked to anyone who was in a gunfight that thought they had too much and too big. Quite the opposite normally.

[bob208]

cut off the head and the body fails. in other words shoot the leader first. that will make the others back off long enough to get away.

[tazman]

cut off the head and the body fails. in other words shoot the leader first. that will make the others back off long enough to get away.

That will work great provided you have time to figure out exactly who that person is.

[bob208]

it is easy generally the little guy with the big mouth. if all else fails take out the biggest and work down. I just want to get to the truck where I have a street sweeper.

[RED BEAR]

sawinredneck 31 rounds is ya going to war. i thought i was going overboard with 5 rounds and 2 speed loaders for 15 rounds. if i carry an auto it could be 15 to 20 rounds with extra clip. and you are right 9 mm is extremely cheap to reload. and the 9mm has been doing the job for over 100 years.

[Mr_Sheesh]

There have been a few cases I've heard of where someone needed a LOT of rounds in a self-defense shooting; Very rare but can happen.

[sawinredneck]

sawinredneck 31 rounds is ya going to war. i thought i was going overboard with 5 rounds and 2 speed loaders for 15 rounds. if i carry an auto it could be 15 to 20 rounds with extra clip. and you are right 9 mm is extremely cheap to reload. and the 9mm has been doing the job for over 100 years.
Well I bypassed the AR-15 when it looked like Hitlary was going to win and went with an AR-10, I figure if I hit someone they aren’t getting up again!
In my MUCH younger, and dumber days, I carried a G19 with spare mag on me, a Cobray M11 with two 35rd mags and a Colt Annaconda in the truck, “just in case”. It’s been a hard journey for me to learn to travel lighter. Many people tell me my middle name is overkill, so please bear that in mind.
I happened across several stellar reviews of the Tarus PT-111 G2, it seemed like a nice fit with a great price. THEN, well, I saw the recall and started refreshing my memories of Tarus from days past. It’s a pity.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You are talking like overkill isn't a good idea, there? Heresy! :P

[uscra112]

Personally, the idea of fighting your way to your rifle is keyboard commando BS.

I think that epithet originated with the late Jeff Cooper, did it not?

[tazman]

I am in the process of getting a Springfield Armory XDM in 9mm. I am getting the full size pistol but smaller versions are available. I am not certain, but I believe the full size mags will fit in the compact versions so they would work as high capacity spare mags. Full size mag capacity is 19 rounds.
Right now Springfield has a promotion where you can get three extra mags and a small range bag free with the purchase of a new pistol.
These pistols shoot extremely well and are pretty much foolproof.
I have one in 45acp and I can't seem to make it have a failure--yet. Give me time and I am sure I can get something in there that won't feed right.
Springfield had a video of one of these in 10mm taking an endurance test of 10,000 rounds over the course of 2 days. All of the shots are on the video. No breakage, no failures, no malfunctions. If this pistol can take 10,000 rounds of 10mm, it can take 9mm or 45acp forever.

[pretzelxx]

At this point you should probably look into training a very high stress situation and trying to calm the situation while having drawn.

Look to do multiple things in extremely close proximity while unloaded to make sure you dont fumble around. Watch some of those close up double tap videos for some interesting techniques I suppose. I eventually want to get one of those laser trainer glocks and practice with my wife as me being an aggressor.

Best of luck.

Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk

[sawinredneck]

You are talking like overkill isn't a good idea, there? Heresy! :P
Not me, them, I’m all about overkill!

I think that epithet originated with the late Jeff Cooper, did it not?
Correct.

I am in the process of getting a Springfield Armory XDM in 9mm. I am getting the full size pistol but smaller versions are available. I am not certain, but I believe the full size mags will fit in the compact versions so they would work as high capacity spare mags. Full size mag capacity is 19 rounds.
Right now Springfield has a promotion where you can get three extra mags and a small range bag free with the purchase of a new pistol.
These pistols shoot extremely well and are pretty much foolproof.
I have one in 45acp and I can't seem to make it have a failure--yet. Give me time and I am sure I can get something in there that won't feed right.
Springfield had a video of one of these in 10mm taking an endurance test of 10,000 rounds over the course of 2 days. All of the shots are on the video. No breakage, no failures, no malfunctions. If this pistol can take 10,000 rounds of 10mm, it can take 9mm or 45acp forever.
Yes, the XDM is on the short list for sure! You are also correct on the compact being able to use the full sized mags.
Problem is I’ll have to sell the LCR to finance it, that’s why I’m looking into “budget” guns for the moment.

well one can always go with the shock and awe approach on felons.. ma1 16 inch barrel loaded down with 180 grain jsp. when felon once has 3 inch exit holes blossoming all over them, other felons will either run or surrender.

or to quote an episode of nypb blue, "no one plays dumb (*^%$U when they got a 44 magnum in dere face"
My son actually suggested I get a P90 the other day, I think I’m training him well lol!

[Mr_Sheesh]

sawinredneck - OK :)

tazman - I'd expect eventually you'd have to replace the sear and/or hammer, had to do that on one 1911. But 10mm times 10k rounds sure shows that that gun's RUGGED! Other than the wear items, yeppers, would expect it'd last a LONG time.

And IDK on the P90, I like an AR10 or other 308 more than a smaller round, I'd rather it only take 1 round to ruin someone's life if they're trying to poke holes in my precious pelt. Rather not have ANY problems even more, sure, but I don't get to choose others' behavior. (So far so good tho)

[TheDoctor]

Not to bash the springfield 10mm XDm. It is very high on my to get list. I love XDm's. BUT...before reading too much into the 10,000 round torture test, realize one thing. Those were hydrashocks. They are loaded to 40 s&w power levels. I've put close to 10k hot 40's through a XDm 40 with no problems. The 10mm is built on the 45 frame. BUT those were NOT 10k 10mm full power loads.

[tazman]

Not to bash the springfield 10mm XDm. It is very high on my to get list. I love XDm's. BUT...before reading too much into the 10,000 round torture test, realize one thing. Those were hydrashocks. They are loaded to 40 s&w power levels. I've put close to 10k hot 40's through a XDm 40 with no problems. The 10mm is built on the 45 frame. BUT those were NOT 10k 10mm full power loads.

I just checked the specs from Federal's web site and you are correct. There is little difference between the 40S&W loads and the 10mm loads that were actually used. Still, 10,000 rounds without a failure for any gun is remarkable and a testament to the durability and reliability of the pistol.

[bedbugbilly]

I don't think you are paranoid.

I have always been very comfortable in carrying a 5 shot revolver - usually a Smith 36 J frame. But as the song goes, "the times they are a changing". Everyone hopes that they will never be in a position where they have to use their CC weapon - and the chances are great that you never will have to which is great. BUT . . . . .

I had a situation at our home several years ago - we lived out in th country fairly remote - I was in the basement and 2 heroin addicts were about ready to break in to the house - they were arrested two days later for doing B & Es in three counties. Had the dogs not barked and I gone upstairs, if they had broken in I could easily have been overpowered and even possibly killed. After talking with the township PD chief (who knows I am licensed in MI and AZ) - he seriously told me that I should probably even carry in the house if alone as these types of situations were on the uprise. He asked what I carried, I showed him and his suggestion was to switch to a higher capacity carry gun. I did - a 9mm Shield. I like it and usually carry a spare mag as well.

I think it also depends on where you are and where you are going. We are about 40 miles north of the border out here in AZ - I always carry the semi and spare mags - but - with what is going on now with the constant influx of illegals and sometimes being out on roads that are less traveled, I'm looking at going to a double stack mag and even increasing the caliber.

If you have a license to carry - carry what makes you feel comfortable and forget about what others think. The chances are great that you will never need it, but if you need it, it's better to have it than not have it. I've seen too much when I worked ambulance and fire rescue as well as several things that have occurred to me over the years and I refuse to be a victim or any of my family be a victim if it could possibly be prevented. That's not being paranoid . . . that's being sensible and prepared if needed.

[sawinredneck]

My boy was out of school today so we hit a few shops and handled a few guns. It was interesting...
The BIG gun store was closed, I guess they defaulted on $6.5 million, it’s those little details!
One store had the Diamondback so I had to try it! Even the clerk shook his head and gave me a dirty look when I asked to see it! “Don’t buy this gun, there’s better choices than this!” Lol! It’s too **** small, the trigger sucks, yeah, it’s just off the list!
I had two guys try to push me towards the PT-111, and two tell me not to touch one! The two against really pushed the S&W shield, no love.
Right now Academy has the Springfield XD9 Mod 2 3” (in FDE, tan) on sale for $380 right now. It really felt good, pointed good and had a decent trigger. 13rd and 16rd mags, plus Springfield has a deal on three more mags and a range bag right now to sweeten the deal. It’s a little smaller than I planned, both good and bad, but with the FS mag in it I think it’d be decent for range use.
I’ve got some feelers out on my LCR, I’ll see what that brings but I’m not forcing it.

[Idaho45guy]

Not to bash the springfield 10mm XDm. It is very high on my to get list. I love XDm's. BUT...before reading too much into the 10,000 round torture test, realize one thing. Those were hydrashocks. They are loaded to 40 s&w power levels. I've put close to 10k hot 40's through a XDm 40 with no problems. The 10mm is built on the 45 frame. BUT those were NOT 10k 10mm full power loads.

My dad used to have a gun shop that he sold and moved all the leftover stock into his giant workshop. About a year ago, he gave me all his leftover 10mm HydraShock ammo; about 6 boxes.

The only factory 10mm ammo I have ever fired in my G29 were some HSM "bear loads" with 200gr hard cast going over 1040fps.

My stepdad and I went to our range at the cabin and I let him shoot the mighty 10mm with the hydrashocks. He was disappointed. He was expecting something substantial.

Then I loaded up my big medicine loads using 190gr hard cast. He was impressed.

[Tracy]

Call it fatalism, call it Bushido, call it military reality. . .Time is the real problem here. I'm of the mindset that if you haven't solved the immediate problem - that probably took you by surprise in the first place - in the time it takes to go through 8 rounds or less of onboard capacity, then you have probably been flanked and destroyed. You may survive that initial engagement and have time to top off to repel another wave; but you can only engage one target at a time, yet you can be engaged by multiple targets at the same time - be it with bullets, knives, or fists. I'd be putting more emphasis on marksmanship skill and the good sense to remain mobile or use cover than handgun capacity, but the hard fact is that 300 prepared Spartan professionals failed to hold Thermopylae against 100,000+ Persians, and the U.S. Navy got clobbered at Pearl Harbor because they didn't see it coming. There's nothing inherently wrong with capacity - it just doesn't seem as thick and warm a security blanket (for the CCW arena) to me as it does to others. Pretty much what you have going for you is that the other guy starts his shenanigans without knowing that you're armed. It can play out a lot of different ways after he figures that out, but running out of rounds isn't at the top of my "possible bad outcomes" list. YMMV.

Very well stated.

[Tracy]

[QUOTE=MUSTANG;4487862]Many years ago I was with a group Scuba Diving in the "Blue Hole" in Santa Rosa New Mexico.../QUOTE]

I have been through Santa Rosa dozens of times but was not aware there was a 'Blue Hole.' Good to know in the event one needs to dispose of a few gangbangers.

Returning back up the garden path to the original post, my first thought was, why not the on-hand Colt Govt Model in 10mm? I think this cartridge is the caterpillar's spats, but my experience is limited to use in a revolver. If the round's recoil in a self loading pistol is an issue for combat shooting, I would consider hand loading .40 S&W level loads--I understand that round is a popular choice for defense.

I concur with those who emphasize mental preparedness. I suspect this is 90% of the issue, whereas shootists are prone to spend 90% of their time dithering about the perfect weapon.

The blue hole is a neat place. I've been there a couple of times.

[tazman]

I also have a Springfield XDE 3.3 in 9mm. I like it and it shoots well enough. I really don't think it would suit you though. It is single stack. The largest mag only holds 9 rounds. If you are looking for capacity, this will not work for you. I bought it for a carry gun in social circumstances when I really need the gun to be invisible.
I can easily hold the 10 ring on a B27 silhouette at 10 yards. A person who was a good shot could do much better.
I mention the accuracy to give you some idea what the 3.3 barrel is capable of.

[Omega]

I also have a Springfield XDE 3.3 in 9mm. I like it and it shoots well enough. I really don't think it would suit you though. It is single stack. The largest mag only holds 9 rounds. If you are looking for capacity, this will not work for you. I bought it for a carry gun in social circumstances when I really need the gun to be invisible.
I can easily hold the 10 ring on a B27 silhouette at 10 yards. A person who was a good shot could do much better.
I mention the accuracy to give you some idea what the 3.3 barrel is capable of.This past Sunday I took my XD. 40, also a 3.3" barrel, out for a spin. It was ringing steel, many in the center reactive area, at 25-30 yards, easily.

[Idaho45guy]

This past Sunday I took my XD. 40, also a 3.3" barrel, out for a spin. It was ringing steel, many in the center reactive area, at 25-30 yards, easily.

My little XDS 40 is one of my most accurate handguns, oddly enough. Despite the heavier trigger and short sight radius, it does a sub-2" group at 25yds every time I take it out...

229727

[tazman]

There may be a shooting range and gun shop near you that rents firearms for tryouts. Quite often, they will have the short barreled Springfield XD series pistols for rent.
If you get a chance, trying one out would be a good idea.

[sawinredneck]

There may be a shooting range and gun shop near you that rents firearms for tryouts. Quite often, they will have the short barreled Springfield XD series pistols for rent.
If you get a chance, trying one out would be a good idea.
No love, I checked today.

[tazman]

Now that is a piece of bad news. I had hoped there would be somewhere you could try one out.
You might ask around for someone who has a 3.3 inch Springfield. They might be willing to meet you somewhere and let you shoot it.

[sawinredneck]

Now that is a piece of bad news. I had hoped there would be somewhere you could try one out.
You might ask around for someone who has a 3.3 inch Springfield. They might be willing to meet you somewhere and let you shoot it.
It’s all good, not getting any hits on the LCR so it’s looking like it wasn’t meant to be anyway.

[JBinMN]

PM me with info about your LCR. I might be interested in another. ;)

[sawinredneck]

PM me with info about your LCR. I might be interested in another. ;)

PM’d, let me know if I’m being ignorant.

[JBinMN]

PM’d, let me know if I’m being ignorant.

PM returned & no you are not ignorant. IMO, You are not out of line with what you are asking.
;)

Now, back to the regular programming.
;)

[sawinredneck]

PM returned & no you are not ignorant. IMO, You are not out of line with what you are asking.
;)

Now, back to the regular programming.
;)
Clear out your pm’s! I’ll give you my email, easier to send pics for me.

[jonp]

A handgun is used to not to "fight your way to your rifle" but to fight your way the heck out of there by any means necessary as fast as possible.

Keep your eyes and ears open. Not in a Rambo "Condition Red" way just situational awareness. Pay attention to what is going on around you. Large gangs of thugs, riots etc rarely come out of no-where. If you see signs of something like that, run the opposite direction as fast as possible. Avoid area's where miscreants congregate.

As for a firearm, revolver or pistol is a personnel choice. My wife and I carry both depending.

[jonp]

Not me, them, I’m all about overkill!

Correct.

Yes, the XDM is on the short list for sure! You are also correct on the compact being able to use the full sized mags.
Problem is I’ll have to sell the LCR to finance it, that’s why I’m looking into “budget” guns for the moment.

My son actually suggested I get a P90 the other day, I think I’m training him well lol!

https://www.cdnnsports.com/zenith-mc28sa-9mm.html#.W9wLkNJKjrc
Bought one of these a month or two ago. Things a tack driver and uses SW M&P holsters. If your looking to carry a full size double stack you could do a lot worse but it is a full sized large gun. I, like many here, have tried a bunch. Mostly I carry a Shield. Very nice pistol.

[Powder Burn]

Last week I saw a banner on this site from Brownells selling 9mm Sig P320 subcompact for $399. No tax or shipping. Now I see the price has jumped a bit with a $50 gift card included. Haven't shot it yet. 12+ 1 and bought 15 round Compact mag that will fit nicely. Profile is larger than my Walther PPS (single stack), but looks and feels solid. I felt I needed a few more rounds since I don't carry extra mags.

[FergusonTO35]

Couple of days ago, I put some rounds through most of my bottom feeders. The guns included a Kimber Micro .380, Glock 42 .380, Glock 19 and 26 9mm, and Glock 22 .40. Distance was 25 feet. In my hands, the little Kimber was more accurate than all the others. At longer distance, the larger guns probably would have had an advantage, but up close and personal I feel well protected with it.

[LUBEDUDE]

Sounds to me like Redneck needs to go to a gun show and coonfinger guns till his heart’s content. Then you will see that finding THE ONE is not the problem, but just choosing one from a half dozen or so good ones.

[Groo]

Groo here
Many a good read here.
Just remember, it is not so much what you have but how you use it.
There is a big difference between WROL [without rule of law] and CYA [normal SD]
In the first , the fight may be pushed to the end and the winner get all the "stuff".
In the second, help could be on the way at any time so if "smash and grab" doesn't work, it is time to leave.
A review of the area is in order.
I go to a big town , the number of shells[in the gun] goes up [size of shell goes down]
in the country, it goes the other way.
Depending on what you can carry, [size ,weight kick,etc] a good CYA gun could be a Keltec PMR30 would be good.
Light,lots of shots,noisy and easy to shoot, reports say a 22mag is like being hit with a club.[and you can hit them 3/4 times before they say ouch!]
In the country you have Big Dogs, Moo Cows[they can be nasty] Him Moose, Mister Bear ETC. need more horse power.
Then there is time of year, Leather jackets and carharts can be hard to get through, Tee shirts are almost not there...
In the end , pack a gun or guns that you trust, ammo that feeds and fires as close to 100% as possible[ nothing is 100% so don't expect it and train]
You have done the best you can.

[sawinredneck]

Sounds to me like Redneck needs to go to a gun show and coonfinger guns till his heart’s content. Then you will see that finding THE ONE is not the problem, but just choosing one from a half dozen or so good ones.
Gun shows really tear me up anymore, used to never miss one, but after breaking my back..... I have to want something specific and focus looking for that item to go to one, then if I feel like it, I’ll play around.
Recently I’ve found I can buy new guns at Academy for the same, or less, than the same gun used at the gun shows.
I think I’m pretty settled on the Springfield’s right now.

[9.3X62AL]

Most of my "carry gun" work these days gets handled by a bone-stock Glock 23 in 40 S&W. The "compact" Glock 19/23 platform does many things very well for a lot of folks in a lot of venues.

In the back-country (mountains or deserts) a S&W 686 x 4" goes along in place of the Glock. There is also a rifle of some kind behind the seat of the truck on most outdoors trips, brought along to hunt with or shoot with recreationally. Such a long arm can be pressed into service if goblins get stupid. The only times I am aware of where gangbangers jacked recreational shooters for their hardware were a couple incidents in the 1990s when a group of recreational shooters shot up all of their ammo, and were exiting a designated USFS shooting area. The name of that tune is "Don't Run Yourself Dry". As always, common sense goes a long way toward keeping you safe.

Situational awareness is VERY critical to keeping yourself safe in the world at large. Having a sidearm along DOES NOT equip you for late-night strolls through MacArthur Park in downtown Los Angeles. Avoidance of potential hazardous persons/places/things are far preferable to tempting fate. DON'T BE THERE when the mangy critters are out and about.

[Idaho45guy]

Last week I saw a banner on this site from Brownells selling 9mm Sig P320 subcompact for $399. No tax or shipping. Now I see the price has jumped a bit with a $50 gift card included. Haven't shot it yet. 12+ 1 and bought 15 round Compact mag that will fit nicely. Profile is larger than my Walther PPS (single stack), but looks and feels solid. I felt I needed a few more rounds since I don't carry extra mags.

I very nearly jumped on that deal after fondling one at the gun shop. But, I just couldn't settle on 9mm. You'll have to let us know how you like it!

[35 Whelen]

I keep at least keep one handgun in all of our vehicles (three) at all times, two revolvers and one hi-cap 9mm. It matters little to me which I would have to use because I'm comfortable with all of them. When I'm at home, out here in the country I'm always wearing a large caliber SA revolver because I'm far more likely to be in danger from a 2,000 lb. bull than a human, but I also wear it on trips to town.

When I go to one of the large cities a couple of hours from here or on long road trips I always take my big pickup wherein resides a rifle under the back seat; a Keltec SU16 with three spare magazines.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Keltec%20SU16A-1_zpskor2rpiy.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Keltec%20SU16A-1_zpskor2rpiy.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Keltec%20Under%20Seat-1_zpsidd4tgmi.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Keltec%20Under%20Seat-1_zpsidd4tgmi.jpg.html)

They're light, very compact, accurate, and AR magazines.

I completely agree with the idea of using a handgun only when a rifle is not readily available. It's MUCH easier to miss with a handgun than with a rifle, and this is coming from someone who's burned through almost a case of pistol primers in less than one year.

35W

[Rick R]

I carry 24/7 and live in a State with a very low crime rate. Usually I carry one of various pistols with a reload, if I’m going to go to the city I’ll carry my VP9 (15 +1 rounds of 9mm) with a reload and my XDs 9mm (7 +1 rounds) with an 8 round reload. Around the property or in the mountains I carry a .44 or 10mm.

If I’m traveling more than hour away from home an AR15 with three magazines is in the vehicle along with extra pistol ammo, a first aid kit and other gear.

IMHO You aren’t paranoid if you recognize that there are evil people and nations that would love to take everything you have. If I was the OP I’d carry the LCR around the house but wouldn’t hesitate to carry the Delta with a couple extra magazines everywhere else. You don’t need a rifle when you’re carrying a 10mm. ;)

[Idaho45guy]

I keep at least keep one handgun in all of our vehicles (three) at all times, two revolvers and one hi-cap 9mm. It matters little to me which I would have to use because I'm comfortable with all of them. When I'm at home, out here in the country I'm always wearing a large caliber SA revolver because I'm far more likely to be in danger from a 2,000 lb. bull than a human, but I also wear it on trips to town.

When I go to one of the large cities a couple of hours from here or on long road trips I always take my big pickup wherein resides a rifle under the back seat; a Keltec SU16 with three spare magazines.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Keltec%20SU16A-1_zpskor2rpiy.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Keltec%20SU16A-1_zpskor2rpiy.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Keltec%20Under%20Seat-1_zpsidd4tgmi.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Keltec%20Under%20Seat-1_zpsidd4tgmi.jpg.html)

They're light, very compact, accurate, and AR magazines.

I completely agree with the idea of using a handgun only when a rifle is not readily available. It's MUCH easier to miss with a handgun than with a rifle, and this is coming from someone who's burned through almost a case of pistol primers in less than one year.

35W

Myself and the rest of us that live in Washington state will find out next week if we will be able to legally keep firearms in our vehicles. The new proposition on the ballot will make defending yourself while driving illegal... Unless of course you have a safe installed in your vehicle.

[sawinredneck]

Wichita and Derby KS pulled that back in the ‘90’s, gun in one locked compartment, ammo in another locked compartment, had to stop drive-by-shootings you know. The state made open carry legal, the concealed carry legal the next year. You can get a CCW if you want to carry to states that reciprocate, but we are not required to do so in the state.
Oxymoron, but the smartest thing I’ve seen politians do!
As for carrying the Delta Elite, I’m half afraid to carry that gun anymore! Prices on them have become so ignorant there’s no way I could afford to replace it! I’m feeling like a hypocrite after all those years mocking my father for owning cars he was afraid to drive because something might happen to them, and here I am afraid to carry a handgun because I can’t afford to replace it.

[Powder Burn]

I very nearly jumped on that deal after fondling one at the gun shop. But, I just couldn't settle on 9mm. You'll have to let us know how you like it!

It's now my favorite pistol. Great trigger. I have to re-qualify for CC and this will be in my hand.

[Idaho45guy]

It's now my favorite pistol. Great trigger. I have to re-qualify for CC and this will be in my hand.

Good to hear! If I could only get over my lack of confidence in 9mm, I would have ordered one.

[sawinredneck]

Got LCR sold and it took a lot of effort, but Academy finally got the Springfield in, picked it up this am. Not much bigger than the LCR, but 14rds on board makes me feel a little better.
Sent in my redemption for the three extra mags and range bag, considering ordering another 13rd mag, I think it’ll be easier to carry than the 16.
Picked up some Monarch 124grn jhps and 100rds of 115grn Ball to break it in a check function with, still not sure on my carry ammo yet. Also found a Crossbreed holster locally, pretty comfy!
So far I like it.

[tazman]

Springfield has been very good about getting the extra mags back to people pretty quickly. I picked up my new XDM last Friday and my mags and bag are on the way to me already.
Mine have been extremely reliable with any ammo I run through them. I have the full size XDM models.

[sawinredneck]

Boy and I just got back from an indoor range, it’s frigging cold out! Got a 5” group from both mags, I kept pulling to the left for whatever reason? Put 100rds through it, I’m impressed and happy so far.

[JBinMN]

Got LCR sold and it took a lot of effort, but Academy finally got the Springfield in, picked it up this am. Not much bigger than the LCR, but 14rds on board makes me feel a little better.
Sent in my redemption for the three extra mags and range bag, considering ordering another 13rd mag, I think it’ll be easier to carry than the 16.
Picked up some Monarch 124grn jhps and 100rds of 115grn Ball to break it in a check function with, still not sure on my carry ammo yet. Also found a Crossbreed holster locally, pretty comfy!
So far I like it.

Glad to hear ya found a buyer. I just could not swing the deal fast... Someone got a great deal.
:)

Hope you are happier with the new pistol.
:)


Boy and I just got back from an indoor range, it’s frigging cold out! Got a 5” group from both mags, I kept pulling to the left for whatever reason? Put 100rds through it, I’m impressed and happy so far.


ETA: Have a look below... Maybe it will help...
;)
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81dbgcQd4RL._SY606_.jpg

[tazman]

Boy and I just got back from an indoor range, it’s frigging cold out! Got a 5” group from both mags, I kept pulling to the left for whatever reason? Put 100rds through it, I’m impressed and happy so far.

As far as pulling to the left, those sights are drift adjustable and can be moved.

[sawinredneck]

As far as pulling to the left, those sights are drift adjustable and can be moved.

I’m thinking JB got the jerking nailed, when I did my part it was pretty near dead on, it’s me, not the gun! But 5” groups at 5-7yds, with a brand new gun, different ammo, and keeping an eye on my 13yo, I’m content. That’s full mag dumps, 13 and 16rds, better than I ever did with a Glock. Guy at the range said he could teach me to shoot a Glock like this for $200!
JB: the LCR ended up with a longtime friend of mine, so I think it all worked out.

[JBinMN]

I am glad it worked out for ya.
:)

[sawinredneck]

As am I sir!
230182230183230184230185

[tazman]

I wouldn't want to be standing in front of that for sure.

[sawinredneck]

Got an email my mags and bag are on their way, that’s quick! I just wish I knew if they were 16 or 13rd mags coming. Doesn’t matter much, but I do want another 13rd to carry because it’s so much smaller.

Addendum: I just noticed this thread was rated 5stars! Not sure if it was me, or if the topic was near and dear to many, but thank you all for the great advice and support, whether I listened or not, lol! I hope it’s helped someone else, somehow. Seriously, thank you all! I’ve no idea how I can repay the extreme kindness I’ve been afforded on this forum!

[tazman]

The mags they are sending should be identical to what was supplied with the pistol. I have used the gear up deal 3 times over the years and each time that was what was sent.
I just received the latest batch today.

[OldBearHair]

Well, I carry the SCCY 9mm. Two extra mags. Need more practice getting gun into firing position quicker. Shoots decent groups. My worry is that under duress and real live issues that could happen, my little three inch groups at seven yards likely would be much bigger. Practice, good practice developing good muscle memory and such is what I need to focus on and when in a stressed situation happens and could perform much better. Oh and the little SCCY has a heavy trigger and the guarantee goes with the gun not just the first owner.

[tazman]

Being fast is great if you can manage it. Being accurate is as good as most can hope for.
I left fast behind me many years ago. I am as accurate now as I have ever been. I certainly hope I am cold blooded enough to deal with whatever situation arises without undue concern.

[sawinredneck]

The mags they are sending should be identical to what was supplied with the pistol. I have used the gear up deal 3 times over the years and each time that was what was sent.
I just received the latest batch today.
LOL!!! And, again, which mags are those?
I’m sorry sir, Springfield kinda made a mess with these guns, you get one, flush fitting 13rd, then one 16rd with the grip extension, SOOOO, am I getting three 16’s? Three 13’s? Or a random mix match of what they have on hand?
Sorry Taxman, not picking on you, but I hope you get my confusion now? 16’s are great, 13’s are great, I’m easy, I just know I’d like another 13 and the 16’s are cheaper, sooooooko.

[sawinredneck]

Well, I carry the SCCY 9mm. Two extra mags. Need more practice getting gun into firing position quicker. Shoots decent groups. My worry is that under duress and real live issues that could happen, my little three inch groups at seven yards likely would be much bigger. Practice, good practice developing good muscle memory and such is what I need to focus on and when in a stressed situation happens and could perform much better. Oh and the little SCCY has a heavy trigger and the guarantee goes with the gun not just the first owner.
I’ve NEVER, and still don’t, badmouth the SCCY pistols! I’ve turned many a friend in need onto them and they’ve all been happy! In all honesty I wouldn’t be afraid or ashamed of carrying one! They are an excellent gun! I still think I’ll get a Diamondback DB9, well, just because. BUT. I know it will need work to sort out known problems. SCCY, they’ve sorted these out, early on, and have created a reputation that is beyond reproach for such a new company! I can only wish Diamondback could follow suit, but..
If you are getting 3” groups at 7yds, shoot the **** thing and enjoy it! Oddly, for such a small pistol, they are FUN to shoot! Those pistols aren’t right! You can literally shoot 200rds and not feel beat up! At this point at least, I WILL NOT badmouth them! If you read through this tread, I mentioned them several times, and not in jest!
Enjoy your gun, I’m tickled you like it as much as you do, which isn’t hard! Please update us as the groups tighten up, as I’m sure they can and will!

[tazman]

LOL!!! And, again, which mags are those?
I’m sorry sir, Springfield kinda made a mess with these guns, you get one, flush fitting 13rd, then one 16rd with the grip extension, SOOOO, am I getting three 16’s? Three 13’s? Or a random mix match of what they have on hand?
Sorry Taxman, not picking on you, but I hope you get my confusion now? 16’s are great, 13’s are great, I’m easy, I just know I’d like another 13 and the 16’s are cheaper, sooooooko.

LOL,,I see your problem now. In some respects, I wish they had given an option for magazine capacity choice. The pistols I purchased came with only one size magazine so I didn't have your issue.

[sawinredneck]

LOL,,I see your problem now. In some respects, I wish they had given an option for magazine capacity choice. The pistols I purchased came with only one size magazine so I didn't have your issue.
Right? Am I getting two 13’s and a 16 with a sleeve, or... too tired to do all the combos, lol.

[sawinredneck]

Got my Springfield gear in today, I have to say the range bag is nice, really nice, much nicer than I’d expected. Double thickness, nicely padded and more room than I’ll use for this gun.
The included mags are the 16rd versions with the included mag sleeves in FDE. No biggie, I’ve got another 13rd on the way from Midway, just in case, a mag loader (I really miss my thumb!) and a Pearce grip +2 extension, not sure I’ll like it so I just got one for now.

[bigboredad]

To the o.p.


I may have missed it but you may consider lay away as a way to purchase another gun. Ten years ago the doctors made me quit working due to multiple sclerosis and if it wasn't for lay away I'd only have 1gun at a time. There are times I've sold guns to help speed up the process of getting the gun off lay away. Most guys say they would never sell a gun but those guys can still work and have a much larger gun budget than me and sounds like you also. So for me if a gun doesn't fit the job it was intended for or I don't like it for what ever reason down the road it goes in favor of hopefully one that will fill the need. Good luck on your search and purchase

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk