Resizing 308 brass?

[44Blam]

I have some once fired .308 brass and I am having a hard time resizing the cases.
I have a lyman carbide rifle set and I lube my cases with the lee case lube.
It is very hard to resize these cases and the first one I went ahead and jammed it all the way down and went to pull it back up and pulled off the rim. Suck case. So, drilled a hole, got out the screw tap set and pulled the case out.
Next case, I pull down about 1/2 way release, pull down further then release then pull down all the way aannnndddd rim pops off and I get to remove another stuck case.
Ok - next case - I go slower and really take my time. I relube a time or two while resizing just a little at a time. I get to the very bottom after quite a while and go to pull the case out and - you guessed it - rim pops off and now I'm pretty good at getting stuck cases out of the .308 die...

So, I search the site and someone resizes with a 45 auto die - but I read that the 45 auto die is 45 auto and 45 winchester mag - but the 45 mag is only 1.1 inches where the .308 is 2 inches - so how would that resize a .308 case? I also read about other people resizing in a couple passes, etc...

How do you guys do a full case resize on .308 brass? Would it help to heat the brass first so it's soft? How hot would it have to be if you did this?

Any help would be appreciated!

[megasupermagnum]

First, is this actual 308 winchester brass, or 7.62 Nato machine gun fired brass? In either case, it shouldn't be that tough to size. I have been full length sizing Lake City brass fired from a machine gun in a Lee die, zero problems. It's a little harder on the down stroke than standard 308 brass, but nothing bad on the upstroke. I am using imperial sizing wax, applied by hand. Since you describe having to really force a case into the die, I'm thinking the die could be made improperly. Any chance you got a stuck case out intact enough to provide measurements?

[swamp]

I did not know that Lyman made a carbide 308 resize die?

[Greg S]

Two things, make sure you at least wipe dirt/mud off the case and inside of the die isn't scored up. If so, polish it out.

Try imperial wax and only resize it halfway. Then relube and try alittle further. If still having problems, clean them and anneal. Sound as if it was machine gun brass in a borderline chamber. Hopefully, younhave a good case trimmer.

[tomme boy]

Make sure your neck expander is set right. If it is set too high it will jam in the neck and you can rip the rim off. Also make sure to lube the inside of the necks as it can cause galling.

[ericandelaine1975]

Sounds like the inside of the case isn't lubed enough. Here's my little trick for lubing the inside. I took a 22 cal swag and put it directly on a wooden handle. Then i take the regular case lube that you put on a pad to roll the shell on and put it on the swab. Just a little of it will do. Then just run it around the inside of the case. You don't have to do every case. I think i do about everything third to fourth one. You'll feel it when you need to lube the inside before you go all the way in.

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[Lloyd Smale]

All my 308 brass commercial and military go through my small base rcbs x dies. Never had a problem with them sticking. I sb size all my 223 and 308 stuff because it might be used in a semi auto or lever gun. If your getting sticky cases your are probably not using enough lube. One thing I do with all my rifle brass new or once fired is first trim it to minimum book length and inside and outside chamfer it. Ive seen brass that wasn't inside chamfered snag on the the expanding button and crush cases. Sometimes not enough that you can see obviously with your eye. It will cause sticking in dies and usually wont chamber right in the gun. As far as I know there is no carbide 308 die. I know Dillon made some with a carbide expander ball but I don't recall lyman even doing that. to lube I do what I do with 223 bulk. I dump a hundred or 2 cases in a shoe box and put a dab of anhydrous lanolin (same thing as imperial sizing wax) and work my hands through the brass till there all lubed. Never had a stuck case doing that. Some batches can be tough pulling through the expander button and on them I stand them in a case tray after there lubed and give them a quick shot of one shot into the necks.

[Cherokee]

I use Hornady one shot and cover them good, they don't stick.

[jmort]

" As far as I know there is no carbide 308 die."

Yes, there are. Lyman is is a carbide neck sizer, and both Dillon is full length. Dillon say use lube. I always use lube even on hand gun cases. Use what works for you.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/dillon-carbide-rifle-dies-individual-three-die-sets_8_4_24498.html

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000157680244/308-winchester-carbide-deluxe-3-die-set

[sutherpride59]

I couldn’t tell you how to solve your problem other than to try another brand of sizing die like an RCBS or a leee and use a different case lube. I will tell you that I had the exact same problem with my ex-brother-in-law’s Lyman die and my ex-father-in-law’s brass. I assumed that the brass was way over sized from a machine gun chamber and he gave up on reloading so I never had to figure out how to fix the problem. If memory serves me right multiple stepped passes with gun oil as lube is what got a few cases sized successfully.

[lightman]

Can you borrow another die? Maybe change lubes? Maybe give your sizing die a good cleaning? Are your cases clean? This is not normal and I hope you find the problem.

[Markopolo]

I have had the same problem many times in the past... nothing more frustrating then “another” stuck case... sooo I personally use bag balm.. a little dab on my left hand fingers, rub the case around as I am move it my hand to the press, pop it in the shell holder, and no more stuck case, providing I rub a tiny bit into the inside of the neck as it gets stiff on the upstroke. Somebody called it galling... bag balm is good for the hands too. I am a firm believer, and I use it on all non carbide dies. Just a tiny bit, a tiny rub between the fingers... a tiny bit goes a very long way.. I been using the same green can for almost 4 years now.


229385

[jmort]

Two sizing lubes that will work, not the only ones, are Unique and Dillon spray which you can make yourself, lanolin and alcohol. I use Unique for military, and Dillon for everything else. You probably dont need small base sizers, but if you have a gun that will only run with a small base sizer, then you really have no choice. Most every gun will run good with a regular sizer. Good luck.

[Hossfly]

I’ve made .30-06 brass into .308 win back in the day when I had no .308 brass to load with. I know I never got stuck, because that’s something you don’t forget about. Did not use expander, jut cut off excess neck and reamed with .308 reamer. Have resized .308 nato thru RCBS dies with no problems.
Like above get another brand die, only solution I can think of.

[waksupi]

The inside of the case necks need lubed. You can stick a pencil in and spin them to put some graphite on there. I use some powder moly, and do every third case for smooth operation.

[Shuz]

I think tomme boy has the answer. Take your expander and decapping pin assembly out of your die and see how it resizes. If it goes easy, then put it back in and screw the expander assembly down until about 1/2" of the decapping pin protrudes from the bottom of the die, and try again. If there is a taper on your expnder ball, you should be able to open up the already sized case that you did without the expander in the die. If that doesn't work, I'd suspect a faulty die.

[sundog]

Recently, I had to run some once fired 7.62x51 brass through a RCBS small base die. I use Imperial quite often and did for these. Inside case neck was lubed using a q-tip lightly rolled in the wax. Worked very well.

I also use Hornady One Shot. If held at proper angle, it also lubes inside case neck quite effectively.

I also use a Dillon or Wilson case guage for any brass that is going into an auto loader.

[jmort]

"I also use a Dillon or Wilson case guage for any brass that is going into an auto loader."
That is good advice. My favorites are the Sherdian cut guages

[blackthorn]

I use Hornaday One Shot. I take a large zip-loc bag, dump in a bunch of cases, spray in the One Shot, shake/roll the cases around, take out of bag and let dry. Never have a problem, but the key is to let the lube dry before sizing. Further, the residual lube seems to get reactivated on the following batches so I need to use less. Once I found myself with no fresh One Shot so I dumped in some brass and added some alcohol, shook them up and it worked OK.

[redhawk0]

Take some measurements of the pulled case. It may tell you what is happening.

redhawk

[atr]

The inside of the case necks need lubed.....VERY TRUE

I have been sizing .308 brass in both regular and SB RCBS dies and have not had the problems you describe. I use light machine oil (think sewing machine oil) to lubricate the outside of the case. I also run a bristle bore cleaning brush down the neck to clear the crud as I have found that the sizing button will then go more smoothly. I also lubricate the inside of the neck with a dab of very light penetrating oil.

[redhawk0]

I agree the inside of the case neck needs to be lubed...but this shouldn't stick a case in the die and tear off the rim. The sizer button would be inside the body of the case at this point.

Take measurements of unsized vs. one of the removed stuck/sized cases. See what the numbers tell us.

redhawk

[redhawk0]

Also...what manufacture of brass is it. If its Russian...there is a chance they are plated steel cases.

redhawk

[Petrol & Powder]

Sounds like the inside of the case isn't lubed enough. Here's my little trick for lubing the inside. I took a 22 cal swag and put it directly on a wooden handle. Then i take the regular case lube that you put on a pad to roll the shell on and put it on the swab. Just a little of it will do. Then just run it around the inside of the case. You don't have to do every case. I think i do about everything third to fourth one. You'll feel it when you need to lube the inside before you go all the way in.

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/\ this

[Walks]

Back in the early 1960's, my DAD got 5,000 .30-06 cases that had been fired in a M1919 BROWNING Machine gun.
We took 500 cases and decapped them using the old LEE hand punch decapping tool. We then tumbled them 100 at a time in a rock polisher. Whipping the rouge off of each one with an acetone soaked rag. Each case had the inside of the case neck scrubbed clean with a .30cal rifle cleaning brush. The necks then were lubed lightly with a Q-tip dipped in some sort of marine grease.
The cases were then rolled over a large sponge soaked in the same marine grease.
A large RCBS swaging press was used with a LYMAN std full-length sizing die.
Slick as you could hope for.
I still have 1200 of those cases that use in my GARAND.
Head Stamped DM-42.

[country gent]

I have had hard sizing on 308 fired in machine guns also. Loading for NM M1As. It was interesting on the mo's gage it read .008-.012 longer headspace than my fired brass from my rifles. Military brass is heavier ( thicker walls) and sizes harder also.
I have used the seater die as a pre sizer at times with a good lube ( imperial Sizing die wax has a permanent place on my bench) to partially size this down on a first step operation. All my 308s were sized in small based dies. A 45 acp sizer die like the lee set up will only size the base and may due to case tapers do the sides up a short way. the shoulder and neck should pass thru the empty opening for the collet depriming rod. I believe the 45acp has more case taper than the 308 so this may be an issue.

Another question is does this brass show being fired in a fluted chamber ( H&K) I had some IMI brass fired in fluted chamber that was a bear to size the first time.

If your lyman dies is small based or tight then a pre size in a standard die may ease sizing force, just watch that headspace on the cartridge is maintained thru second sizing. It may grow a little with the body being sized down smaller.

[Char-Gar]

I have not found 308 Winchester brass harder to size than any other mid-size rifle case. Now if you are using that machine gun fired GI brass that is another issue. They do require more effort on the press handle and perhaps a small base sizing die. I have not used the pull through neck expander in dies for many years. I always expand 30 cal. necks in a seperate operation. I dip the case necks in a small container of micro-fine graphite regardless of how I expand them.

[GregLaROCHE]

All case lubes are not created equal. Just because it is sold by a big name brand doesn’t make it one of the best lubes. I used RCBS case lube for years. Never had a real problem, but some cases were harder than others. One day a friend gave me some pure castor oil to try. What a difference. Everything got a lot easier.

[John J]

Greetings

Try this next...remove the decaping assembly from your sizeing die and then resize a case.

I think your expander ball is set to high in the die and what is causing your problem.

John J

[cas]

I have to use mica on my 308 cases to size them. (or at least to get them pin back out of the neck) Must be my dies, I don't have near the problems I do with them with any of the many other calibers I load.

[44Blam]

My die set came with a neck size die and a full size die so, I decided to take the decapper out of the full size die and also take the expander ball out of neck size die.

I lubed the case with the Lee case resize lube - I use this on all my pistol cases and I also some other rifle cases.

The brass I was using to try to setup my die is .308 brass and I got it from a guy at the range who wasn't collecting his brass. He was shooting it out of an AR10 style rifle.

The head stamp on the brass is CCI and 308 Win.

I popped the primer / neck sized a case with no problem. Then I changed the die to the full case resize and I went 1/2 way, backed off and then all the way and it was very tough to size the case. Aaaannndddd STUCK case again.

My #s are as follows:
Before sizing:
Neck size: .3465
1" back from neck: .463
1/4" from rim: .471

After sizing:
Neck size: .331
1" back from neck: .4595
1/4" from rim: .468

I've got about 150 Federal cases that are once-fired, so I can do some experimenting. But before I get a new die, I think I'll try some of the other case lube suggestions - if nothing really helps, I will try a new resize die. So far all of my other dies are Lee, if I get a new die set I'll probably just go with that.

Here are two of the cases: the one on the left was resized and has a broken rim, the one on the right is pre-resize (and broken rim):
229429

Thanks!

[nicholst55]

Once you sort out your possible lube issues, try this: take a .30-06 FL sizing die and remove the decapping/expanding spindle. Lube your .308 case and run it into the .30-06 die. Then try running it into the .308 FL die. Stop if you feel any undue resistance, remove, relube, and rotate 180 degrees and try again. Repeat as needed until you either succeed in sizing it completely, or else stick a case. Several experienced High Power shooters that I know recommend this procedure when resizing USGI machinegun-fired brass.

Depending on how much work is required to size this brass and the quantity of brass that you have, you must decide if the time and effort required are worthwhile. Only you can answer that question.

[44Blam]

Once you sort out your possible lube issues, try this: take a .30-06 FL sizing die and remove the decapping/expanding spindle. Lube your .308 case and run it into the .30-06 die. Then try running it into the .308 FL die. Stop if you feel any undue resistance, remove, relube, and rotate 180 degrees and try again. Repeat as needed until you either succeed in sizing it completely, or else stick a case. Several experienced High Power shooters that I know recommend this procedure when resizing USGI machinegun-fired brass.

Depending on how much work is required to size this brass and the quantity of brass that you have, you must decide if the time and effort required are worthwhile. Only you can answer that question.

I like this idea... If I get a set of 30-06 dies, I don't have a rifle chambered in 30-06 so I'll have to buy a new rifle... :D

[Brassduck]

I had the same problem with some 30-06 cases, like 44Blam I stuck a case. was using spray lube, I could tell the ones trying to stick,pull them back out roll them on a lube pad with RCBS case lube on it and they sized fine. noticed these were WW supers that were sticking. use better lube. Good Luck

[Forrest r]

I've used nothing but strait white lithium grease for decades to lube all my rifle cases.

Try the white lithium grease, strait stp, break free, etc.

Hand lube and run the case up in the fl die. When you feel resistance/pressure lower the case and re-lube that area and re-size. It might take 4 or 5 tries but the brass will size down. Back in the 80's I ended up with 2000 pcs of 30-06 brass from a belted machine gun. Had to do the 4 or 5 try thing with white lithium grease, but they all sized down and I didn't have any stuck cases.

[redhawk0]

The numbers look pretty normal. a 0.004" resizing of a case body isn't that unusual. The neck looks pretty wide though so likely the shoulder is bumped out quite a bit too.

Personally....If you can't find a lube that will assist with this batch of brass...seeing that the 308 cases are a dime a dozen (figure of speech)...I wouldn't bother with it. I'd scrap it and move on. No sense in damaging expensive equipment for free range pickups.

redhawk

[Fernando]

I think that Lee stuff was waterbased?? could be wrong on that though.
Use Imperial or RCBS - I form a lot of wildcats and have never had a problem.
I stuck one case in over 40year and knock on wood I don't again.
That 06 case made the nicest little squeak and I will know it on the spot if I ever here it again.

[CastingFool]

All my 308 brass is milsurp that was fired through a miningun. I use a fl RCBS sizing die, the cases are lubed on an RCBS pad, liberally doused with their lube. It's a little harder than sizing commercial brass, but never had a case that stuck. My stuck case remover has never been used.

[bedbugbilly]

I resized a bunch of 308 brass just before I left for AZ for the winter. This was all mixed headstamps and about three different batches of "range brass" that I had purchased form members here. I reload 30-30 and 8mm Mauser but 308 is new to me and I'm anticipating a new Henry single shot.

I used my old RCBS Jr3 press. I stopped using a FL sizing die with a de-cappin/expander stem long ago. I pull the stem and never use it again. For my 308, I have a set of Lee dies. A long time ago, I switched to Johnson's paste wax for sizing lube - I fold an old cotton pillowcase until it's about 4" X 6" and with a putty knife work the paste wax in to the surface of the material. A gently role of the case over the pad and it slides in and out of the sizing die easily - but everyone has their own preferences. IIRC, I ended up resizing around 300 pieces of brass - all civilian headstamps. I have a Hornady case gauge and if they didn't slide in out of the sizing die, I put the casing back in and rated it several times before pushing up in to the sizing die - that took care of the problem.

Out of all of the cases I resized, I had 7 that would not go in the Hornady gauge due to the base being too big - from what I have read and been advised - due to being fired in a rifle with an over generous chamber. I asked on this site about the "small base" sizing dies to take care of that issue - was advised that if I bought one to get the 30-06 as I could then get the fat bases down with it and it and same die would work for 308, *mm and 30-06 - makes sense to me but at the price of 308 range brass - I'll probably just put the fat base ones in my brass can for recycling or use for dippers, etc.

Back to the decapping/expanding stems - a lot of folks use them and like them but the inside of the neck of the case to resize should be lubed - I just prefer to use a Lyman M-die on all of my bottlenecks to expand for my cast - but everyone is different. An extra step? Yes. But so is lubing the inside of the neck.

I have found the paste wax to be an excellent lube for resizing and when I take it out of the resizing die, a quick wipe with a soft cloth and it's ready to go to be primed and then loaded - no washing, etc.

I'm guessing that you may have some fat bases on some of the range brass you end up with and you'll have to decide if you need a small base sizing die or not. You shouldn't be having any more problems with 308 though as you would have resizing 30-30, 30-06, 8mm, etc.

I'm also curious about you saying your sizing die is "carbide"? You're resizing a bottle neck casing not a straight wall pistol casing.

As mentioned - if you are using a decapping / expanding stem - on the up stroke you are putting the expander ball through the neck and then resizing the neck down in size when the ram is all the way up. On the down stroke you are pulling the expander portion of the stem through a smaller neck opening and stretching it blackout again to the size of the expander portion. It's got to be lubed on the inside of the neck or you'll be fighting it all the time.

Good luck!

[BeeMan]

...Would it help to heat the brass first so it's soft? How hot would it have to be if you did this?

Any help would be appreciated!

I do not see where these questions from the OP were addressed.

Absolutely do NOT heat the brass to soften it and make sizing easier. If the case head is heated enough to soften it and make a difference in full length sizing the brass is then too soft and weak to contain a normal pressure load. Annealing is ONLY used on the case neck and into the shoulder region to remove excess hardening from multiple firing and resizing cycles.

Be safe - keep annealing completely separate from solving a problem with excessively difficult full length resizing.

[marlin39a]

RCBS Small Base Sizer. I lube, run through the die, turn 180, run it through again. Then I put it in a case gauge. Back to using in my M1A.

[osteodoc08]

change to a spray on lanolin based sizing lube or imperial sizing wax. If using the lanolin, make sure it is dry before you use it or it will stick. With either lube, make sure that you lube the inside of the mouth. The primer punch should extend 1/8" below the die and this will situate the expander ball correctly. Make sure the die is clean.

[Walks]

I've never used a small based sizing die for cartridge cases fired in Military type Rifles.
M-1 Garand's
M1A Super Match, STD, SOCOM 16
AR-15's
Mini-14's

Never needed to.

Just because they're fired in a military style rifle doesn't mean that brass has to be small based sized.
Just the opposite, G. I. Chambers are more generously sized then commercial sporting rifle chambers.
So they DON'T NEED to be sized down so far.

The old SB dies were for commercial rifles that didn't have the camming power of a bolt action.

Rifles such as the Browning BAR, Remington 760 & 742 and their variations. The Savage 99 sometimes, and Winchester 88 & 100.

The NEW Small Based die sets designed for 5.56 & 7.62 are just another way to sell dies.

The Dillon carbide dies still have to be lubed, but they will resist the sizing of tens of thousands of cases much longer then steel dies.

Redding has had a carbide expander ball for their sizing dies for bottleneck cases for several years as an accessory & they offer it as a conversion for RCBS dies.
LYMAN is now offering it for their new dies too.

The NEW Bushing style neck sizer dies are offered in both steel and carbide/ titanium nitride or something similar, that is slick enough not to need lube.
But they only size the neck with the "carbide" bushing, not the body of the case.

Case sizing isn't ROCKET SCIENCE.

Just read and follow the directions that come with the die set.

[Lloyd Smale]

I will agree that they all don't need it but chamber dimentions are all over the place on semi auto and especially military guns. Ive had Ars that would run anything and ive had them that needed a small base die. Had them that ran 223 length ammo and had them that wouldn't. My theory is I have a number of guns in 223 556 and 308 and 762. If I had to grab ammo fast to feed a gun with small base sized ammo I know it will run in any of them. Ive never seen a down side to it. My brass lasts just as long or darned near and accuracy is every bit as good sb sizing. Maybe I a bit persnickety about it but I trim all once fired brass to minimum spec (minimum 556 length for 223) before I load it. chamfer inside and outside and use a sm base x die so brass stretching is held to a minimum. I then check it for length every 3 or 4 firings. Using a small base x die gives me peace of mind and doesn't have any downsides that ive seen. This aint my first rodeo. Ive been loading for 50 years and have loaded 100s of thousands of 223 and 308 and if it had a down side I think by now it would have bit me right on the nose. Now you might have a point if your loading bench rest ammo but those guys don't use standard dies either. Ive got a number of sets of dies for both that just collect dust because I see no need to use them. Even bolt guns can be cut with tight chambers. I have a 6mm classic rem that will not run reloads that aren't small base sized. Now I don't buy small base sizing dies for everything. But wouldn't load without them for my 556 and 762 guns. Keep in mind too that I use once fired brass. Brass that's been shot in about every type of gun and chamber. Sorry but I cant afford to by brand new commercial brass for black guns. I can buy a small base x die for 20 bucks. About the cost of two boxes of commercial l brass. No brainer to me. If I had one ar and bought brand new brass I wouldn't see any need for them either. But there sure not made to con people into dies they don't need. Maybe all dies sets are made to con you into buying them. Heck a guy could get away with a lee loader and a hammer if he to. Me? ill crank them out on a progressive press and use my small base dies thankyou. I like to shoot my ARs ALOT with those rounds and I detest it when a gun doesn't go bang every time. Being from southern CA I don't imagine you worry about it much. Not in real ar15s and ar10s anyway. At least not legally.
I've never used a small based sizing die for cartridge cases fired in Military type Rifles.
M-1 Garand's
M1A Super Match, STD, SOCOM 16
AR-15's
Mini-14's

Never needed to.

Just because they're fired in a military style rifle doesn't mean that brass has to be small based sized.
Just the opposite, G. I. Chambers are more generously sized then commercial sporting rifle chambers.
So they DON'T NEED to be sized down so far.

The old SB dies were for commercial rifles that didn't have the camming power of a bolt action.

Rifles such as the Browning BAR, Remington 760 & 742 and their variations. The Savage 99 sometimes, and Winchester 88 & 100.

The NEW Small Based die sets designed for 5.56 & 7.62 are just another way to sell dies.

The Dillon carbide dies still have to be lubed, but they will resist the sizing of tens of thousands of cases much longer then steel dies.

Redding has had a carbide expander ball for their sizing dies for bottleneck cases for several years as an accessory & they offer it as a conversion for RCBS dies.
LYMAN is now offering it for their new dies too.

The NEW Bushing style neck sizer dies are offered in both steel and carbide/ titanium nitride or something similar, that is slick enough not to need lube.
But they only size the neck with the "carbide" bushing, not the body of the case.

Case sizing isn't ROCKET SCIENCE.

Just read and follow the directions that come with the die set.

[jmort]

"Now you might have a point if your loading bench rest ammo but those guys don't use standard dies either."

The small base die advice is unwarranted. If it works for you great, if you have a gun that needs them, use them. But small base is not necessary as a general matter. All my ARs run fine with regular sizing dies. As one might expect, accuracy begins and ends with the neck.

"Reloading and Die Selection
Reloading for the .308 is straight-forward. The cartridge is very forgiving and performs exceptionally well with a wide variety of powders and bullets. Different applications require different tools and techniques, however. Those shooting semi-auto "gas guns" such as the M1A and FN-FAL clones should full-length size after each firing. Palma shooters, who need to be at near-max pressures to be competitive, should use the strongest brass available and should pay special attention to seating depths. At high pressures, Palma shooters can also benefit from body-sizing or full-length sizing after each firing.

Full-length Sizing (Body and Neck): The problem with full-length sizing is that virtually all commercial dies reduce the neck diameter much more than necessary. This results in excessive neck tension and can make bullets difficult to seat smoothly. There are two good solutions to the problem, and neither is very expensive.

1. Purchase a Forster .308 full-length sizing die. Measure a loaded round with a bullet seated, and note the outside neck diameter. Then send your die to Forster and for $10 (plus shipping) Forster will hone the neck to the dimension you specify. For bolt guns, we suggest .002" under the neck diameter of a loaded round. For gas guns, go .003" under. Total cost is about $45.00, including the die.

2. Hornady can make you a custom full-length sizing die for about $75.00 plus shipping. Just send them a few fired cases and a reamer print (if you have it). They can create a die that gives you ideal neck tension, as well as just the right amount of sizing at the shoulder and web. Call Hornady and ask for Lonnie Hummel. Scott Parker recently had a die like this made and he reports: "Average runout for 65 rounds was .0004". All 65 rounds showed less than .001" runout."

Neck Sizing Only: If you are not working your brass too much with very hot loads, you can probably get by with neck-sizing only. Bushing dies are convenient and allow you to adjust tension as easily as swapping in a new bushing, but this can contribute to build-up of brass at the neck-shoulder junction. If you do neck-size only, you should experiment with the bushing position. Some shooters get best results only sizing one-half to two-thirds of the neck. Another inexpensive option is the Lee Collet Die. This works by squeezing the neck around a metal mandrel that extends down into the case. Collet dies can produce very low run-out, they don't cause brass build-up at the neck-shoulder junction, and they are inexpensive. However, it is somewhat difficult to precisely control the amount of tension and the collet's fingers can leave marks on your brass. Still, some .308 shooters swear by the Lee die.

Neck-Sizing with Optional Body Sizing: Most .308 shooters can get away with neck-sizing only for a while, but after 4-5 firings extraction becomes difficult. Then it's time to size the brass. An inexpensive Redding body die is the way to go. Getting just the right amount of sizing is the hard part--you want to just size the case enough so that it feeds and extracts easily. With some presses, the ram must be set to "cam-over" in order to size the case enough. This means you must first set the bottom of the die to touch the shell-holder, then screw it down a little further, 1/8th turn at a time."
http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

"General Reloading Advice
Sierra Bullets reloading .223 Remington rifleThere are no special tricks to reloading the .223 Remington cartridge. Use the same methods and tools you would use for other centerfire cartridges. With anything other than Lapua brass, we recommend you debur the flash hole. Sort by weight if you are loading for competition. Trim the brass to a uniform length and chamfer the case mouth inside and out. We like to use a 28-degree chamfering tool from Sinclair Int'l or Hollands for the inside chamfering, and a 45-degree Forster tool for the outside chamfering. Powder, primer, and bullet selection is discussed in separate sections below. For dies, Forster, Hornady, and Redding sizers and seaters are all good. For shooters who prefer neck-sizing, the Lee Collet Die produces very straight ammo with low run-out. To learn more about advanced case prep techniques, read Preparing Cases for Long-Range Accuracy by Jacob Gottfredson.

Sierra Bullets reloading .223 Remington AR15 rifleReloading for AR15s and other .223 Rem Gas Guns
With their multiple bolt lugs and rapid locking/unlocking, AR15s are more sensitive to pressure and bolt thrust issues than stout, modern custom bolt actions. There is also a risk of slam-fires in AR15s. Therefore, some high-end loads that may work in a BAT, Barnard, Borden or Stiller bolt action will be too hot for an AR15. This is why Sierra issues a completely separate load map for AR15s chambered in .223 Rem and 5.56x45 (see notes above on 5.56x45 throat length concerns). We recommend the you initially reduce loads at least 0.7 grains for an AR15 compared to a bolt action, and never exceed the powder manufacturers' recommended loads. Click on the button at right to download Sierra's latest .223 Rem loads for the AR15.

With bolt-action rifles, if you shoot a moderate load, just neck-sizing the brass is a viable alternative for a few loading cycles, though eventually you'll have to run the cases through a body die or full-length sizing die. However, with an AR15, we strongly recommend you full-length size your cases every time. With proper dies, this does not over-stress the brass or lessen the useful life. For full-length sizing where you need control over neck tension, we recommend the Redding Type 'S' full-length bushing die. If you reload the same brand of brass all the time, another solution is to use a Forster full-length die with the neck honed to give your desired neck tension. Forster will hone its dies to your specification for about $12.00 plus shipping."
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

[lightman]

Theres a lot of good advice and shared experience from the above posters. If I was having this problem I would:

1. Give the die a good cleaning. Make sure the brass is clean also.
2. Try a different lube.
3. Try a different die. Either borrow one or buy another.

I would go in that order, from cheap to more expensive. There is a problem somewhere, we just have to find it. I've resized machine gun brass in several calibers. While they were somewhat oversized, none gave me a lot of trouble. Clean brass, clean dies, good case lube, and go slow.

[tomme boy]

Do this.

Take the LEE LUBE THROW IT AS FAR AS YOU CAN!

Order some RCBS case lube and a pad. Or some Imperial case lube. Or even Canola oil. Yes I have used it.

The only way the Lee lube works is if it is still wet when you size the case. If you let it dry you WILL get a stuck case. Keep some of the case lube on your fingers and roll the case between the wet fingers right before you size it. It is the only way you can get that garbage to work.

[Lloyd Smale]

1. Purchase a Forster .308 full-length sizing die. Measure a loaded round with a bullet seated, and note the outside neck diameter. Then send your die to Forster and for $10 (plus shipping) Forster will hone the neck to the dimension you specify. For bolt guns, we suggest .002" under the neck diameter of a loaded round. For gas guns, go .003" under. Total cost is about $45.00, including the die.

2. Hornady can make you a custom full-length sizing die for about $75.00 plus shipping. Just send them a few fired cases and a reamer print (if you have it). They can create a die that gives you ideal neck tension, as well as just the right amount of sizing at the shoulder and web. Call Hornady and ask for Lonnie Hummel. Scott Parker recently had a die like this made and he reports: "Average runout for 65 rounds was .0004". All 65 rounds showed less than .001" runout." So its bad advice to buy a one size fits all sb die but I need to buy a separate custom die for every gun I own???? Never once said sb dies are nessisary for every gun. My point is brass sized by them fits every gun and that cant be said about a standard sizing die or especially a custom die that is cut for one specific gun. Right now I have 9 223/556 guns and 4 308/762 guns. If I had to buy a different die for each or run a certain brand of brass in each it would cost me well over a grand. A rcbs small base x die can be bought for 30 bucks. No brainer to me.

[jmort]

I completely agree with post # 43. You do not. Do what works for you. My only point is that the long-range shooters do not use small base dies as suggested in your post. Rock on with your small base dies.

[Lloyd Smale]

ya they use something like a bench rest die. Not to many long range competitors use off the shelf full length die sets. Bottom line is im a shooter and hunter not a long range competitor and and .10 of an inch difference in group size doesn't mean squat to me. What does is my gun going bang every time I pull the trigger. Especially if said gun might be called on to protect my family.
I completely agree with post # 43. You do not. Do what works for you. My only point is that the long-range shooters do not use small base dies as suggested in your post. Rock on with your small base dies.

[gwpercle]

For this application...don't use the Lee case lube, fine for handgun but for this job you want to use STP Oil Treatment , thick greasy stuff , applied by rolling on a pad and size the case partway in the first step , lube the case again and finish sizing in a second step. Removing the decapping rod for the initial sizing will also help . Feel for resistance on the press handle....if it's hard going in...stop, withdraw the case and smear the STP around evenly and try again. If it goes in hard it's going to be harder to withdraw and that's when the rim pulls off.

I wonder if you have brass fired in a machine gun....if so be sure and check for crimped in primers.

I recently finished doing 500 military cases fired in a machine gun. They were free but the work to get resized and the crimps removed sure seemed like a lot of work !

Good Luck
Gary

[wv109323]

I resized several thousand .223. I had the rim ripped off several times until I started using Hornady lube. I got a small bottle like 4 oz. for $4.00. After that I had no more problems. I used a lube pad and a neck brush. The Hornady is better than RCBS and Lee which I used before.

[deltaenterprizes]

For this application...don't use the Lee case lube, fine for handgun but for this job you want to use STP Oil Treatment , thick greasy stuff , applied by rolling on a pad and size the case partway in the first step , lube the case again and finish sizing in a second step. Removing the decapping rod for the initial sizing will also help . Feel for resistance on the press handle....if it's hard going in...stop, withdraw the case and smear the STP around evenly and try again. If it goes in hard it's going to be harder to withdraw and that's when the rim pulls off.

I wonder if you have brass fired in a machine gun....if so be sure and check for crimped in primers.

I recently finished doing 500 military cases fired in a machine gun. They were free but the work to get resized and the crimps removed sure seemed like a lot of work !

Good Luck
Gary

STP is google stuff for case lube! Ern using it for overseas 20 years!
Gave up LEE case lube a long time ago!

[44Blam]

Do this.

Take the LEE LUBE THROW IT AS FAR AS YOU CAN!

Order some RCBS case lube and a pad. Or some Imperial case lube. Or even Canola oil. Yes I have used it.

The only way the Lee lube works is if it is still wet when you size the case. If you let it dry you WILL get a stuck case. Keep some of the case lube on your fingers and roll the case between the wet fingers right before you size it. It is the only way you can get that garbage to work.

Well, that was easy: Ditch the Lee sizing lube.
I got some Redding Imperial sizing wax and my first case resized smoothly in one stroke with very little pressure.

[tomme boy]

See. I HATE that stuff. You have to use it wet. Then you get dents all over the cases. The only thing I use it for now is to lube a brush to clean the inside necks of rifle cases. I just wipe a little on the brush to help clean the inside of the necks before sizing. Its the only thing I use it for now.

[osteodoc08]

Well, that was easy: Ditch the Lee sizing lube.
I got some Redding Imperial sizing wax and my first case resized smoothly in one stroke with very little pressure.

Glad you had success.

One word of caution on the sizing wax, a little goes a long way. If it builds up it can dent the shoulders but that is more of an eyesore and will iron out while shooting it after it’s been loaded.

[country gent]

I use the Imperial sizing die wax for sizing cases I have a cotton bath towel impregnated with it for large batches I lay the towel out and pour a few hundred casesin it then a finger of the Imperial die wax and grab 2 corners in each hand and raise and lower hands agitating cases for a few minutes. Every so often I can just use the towel with out adding lube. fold the towel up and store in a ziplock bag until next use.

I use the lee water soluable lube but not for case sizing, I makes a good release agent and I have used it thinned 4 parts water to 1 part LSDW for wetting and lubing paper patches. I suspect it is a repackages drawing lube. We used a drawing lube forming 2 piece cans And the Lee looks feels and acts about the same, ours came into the can plant in 55 gallon drums.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I too have tried the Lee Case Sizing Lube. After the first try I went back to Hornady Unique, comes in a little tub. I will dip the neck in moly powder and lube the outside of the case with the Unique lube. I use a lot of LC headstamps and have little trouble using a Lee full-length sizer or a Redding full-length bushing type full-length sizer. I do use a small-base size die for LC cases that are going to be sized and chopped to 300 Savage. Again your case lube is probably the problem. My 308's are Savage 99's, I have not had reason to use small-base dies for any of the 5 or 6 I shoot regularly.

[fredj338]

I did not know that Lyman made a carbide 308 resize die?
They do not.

[robg]

Used rcbs lube since I started never had a problem ,use a lube pad and also lube inside the neck .

[popper]

RCBS lube on the fingers, SB die without spud. LC MG brass, half way, rotate, another half. Then full stroke and hold a couple seconds to cool, rotate & repeat. I want no spring back and the shoulder set correctly. Had one slam fire, no more.

[44Blam]

They do not.

It was labeled "Lyman Carbide Deluxe Rifle 3 Die Set (308 Win/307 Win.)". I think they called it Carbide because it has a carbide neck expander...
Die itself is a steel die.

[44Blam]

RCBS lube on the fingers, SB die without spud. LC MG brass, half way, rotate another half. Then full stroke and hold a couple seconds to cool, rotate & repeat. I want no spring Bach and the shoulder set correctly. Had one slam fire, no more.

This is good info.

So far, I have only made one dummy boolit with all the dies (resize, expand, seat) so I can test my cast boolits in my rifle for function.

Life is getting in the way of me actually shooting my cast boolits, so it's gonna be a few weeks before I can actually run some of them down range.

[lightman]

Glad you found the problem. I've never used Lee lube so I've had no experience with it. I've only had one set of Lyman dies and they worked ok, no complaints there.

[David2011]

change to a spray on lanolin based sizing lube or imperial sizing wax. If using the lanolin, make sure it is dry before you use it or it will stick. With either lube, make sure that you lube the inside of the mouth. The primer punch should extend 1/8" below the die and this will situate the expander ball correctly. Make sure the die is clean.


Glad you had success.

One word of caution on the sizing wax, a little goes a long way. If it builds up it can dent the shoulders but that is more of an eyesore and will iron out while shooting it after it’s been loaded.

Great answers and even though you found part of the solution there are other things that you can do to make it better. One is to polish the expander ball with 500-800 grit wet or dry. That especially helps as the ball is pulled out of the neck. You don’t want to reduce the size of the ball; just make it smooth. Follow Osteodoc’s recommendation for positioning the decapping pin after polishing the ball. If with any cartridge either spray lanolin or Imperial doesn’t do the job try straight undiluted lanolin. It works very well for difficult cartridges like the S&W .500 and magnum rifle cases.