lee precision or ...

[airone46]

LEE IMPRECISION

Goodmorning everyone!
As you know, I write from Italy and my English is bad, but even worse is the English translator of my computer!

I write to report the very critical assistance of LEE precision, or rather LEE IMPRECISION!

I buy a bullet sizer .308 for my K 31.
After some problems with items LEE, I check the diameter and, instead of .308, the diameter is well .311.
Definitely high for my weapon!
I write to LEE IMPRECISION and they reply to me to send the bullet sizer!
SHIP FROM ITALY ???
I see the cost of shipping, and the smallest cost I find is € 36.21 (= $ 41.27)
At the end of the month my daughter will be at N.Y. : if she buy it in the US the cost is $ 16.09 (Midway USA): she could bring it to me when she return to Italy!
Or I buy it at my city for € 35 !!!

I see in other posts that some items of the LEE IMPRECISION do not work well!

It happened to me to have some little inconveniences with Redding, RCBS, CH-4 Tools and Lyman (I am 73 years old, and my first shotgun I was 13 years old! I reload for 60 years, and I have still my first SPARTAN press and 310 Lyman tool, with 222 R. dies!): but these firms seem to be another planet if you compare to Lee! They always replaced the faulty and wrong piece without asking me anything!

At this point I make a small bill: if Midway sells for $ 16.09, the item will cost to Lee a couple of dollars at most! Instead of in Italy, they can send my daughter to N.Y., and the cost does not exceed $ 10!

A FISTFULL OF DOLLARS .... and have lost a customer forever!

PS I measured the diameter NOT with a chinoiserie, but with a caliber of the Swiss TESA!
I think the error is due to the fact that someone put a bullet sizer .311 in a package with the wording .308 !!!

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

My daughter ordered a Lee collet 7.5x55 SWISS: she canceled the order IMMEDIATELY and she buy a REDDING neck sizer

[jmort]

I feel bad for you. If you live outside the U.S. it may make sense to avoid some of the Lee products as the shipping is crazy for such a small part. I would get my Sizers from NOE if he will ship to Europe.

[Green Frog]

My answer to the title, “Lee Precision or... is generally to go with the “or.” The exceptions would occur if the price is so completely different or if there some special feature for the Lee product, I’ll buy it, but adjust my expectations downward accordingly. I don’t know what availability of reloading equipment is like in Italy, but I would be looking for a Lyman or RCBS combination sizer and lubricator if I were going to do this task on a lot of bullets. As for them wanting to ship the defective part back to the US on your dime... could you go to your local seller instead? I’m not surprised that they don’t want to just send you merchandise on the strength of an e-mail. Good luck with your problem, and in your situation, if I just had to have a lee sizing die, I’d just cut my losses and have the daughter bring another part as she comes back... but maybe test it for correctness while it’s still in the US!

Froggie

[JeepHammer]

I'm not a big fan of Lee.
I find a lot of 'Issues' in materials & machining, fit & finish is often poor.

The one thing Lee did get right (but named wrong) was the first generation 'Turret' (tool head) press.
That press is stupid handy.
You still needed to drill the head for thumb screws to hold the tool head inserts in place, but it is stupid fast & easy operate.

The 'Factory Crimp' die works pretty good, but it could be better made.
For the price it's hard to beat.

And before the Lee fans go off, I've owned about all their presses, and I still have a Load Master that has never worked correctly from day one...
No matter how much tuning, tinkering, returns to Lee, it's simply never worked correctly.
I keep it as an example of what NOT to buy, and when someone starts talking about Lee progressives, I park them in front of it for about an hour, that's usually enough...

[Omega]

It happens, with most any brand. All the sizers I have from lee were what was marked on the package, though I have opened up a few. My question is, where did you buy the sizer from in the first place? I'd start with them first, since they should make it right for you. Being outside CONUS you are handicapped by postage, sucks for sure. Are there no Italian or other European companies that make reloading supplies?

I've had good luck with Lee products for the most part, arguably not the best maybe, but will do the job. I still use a Lee turret press and more than a few of their other products because they work, and work good.

[airone46]

Unfortunately, in Italy nobody produces reloading equipment!

We are forced to buy from importers who, without any justification, double or triple the prices. Add then taxes (VAT, customs, etc.) shipping + TAXES ON SHIPPING (absurd !!!) and at the end prices go up to the stars!
Local sellers, then, if there is something wrong, they lose interest in the problem, and send you back to the Builder!
And thank goodness that the Builders are in America and not on the Moon!

For this reason, since my daughter is married to a Phoenix engineer, her relatives buy in the USA, and then she brings them to me as a gift when she returns to Italy.

For this reason I can only buy items that can be exported and that do not weigh much!

Generally if you buy serious Constructors items, there are no problems!

An example: I buy at STITRA (italian seller) the dies CH-4 TOOLS for 9x18 ULTRA.
They arrive after 3/4 months, but the shell holder is for another caliber. The Italian importer STITRA, after having pocketed MANY MANY money, says that he can not do anything about it, and that I must address CH-4 TOOL. Good thing that CH-4 is not like Lee IMPRECISION! He immediately sends me the appropriate shell holder, but after about two months this still does not arrive! I write and immediately send me another shell holder, which comes to me after about 15 days. But after almost a week I get the FIRST shell holder. I write if they want it back, but they answer me that I can hold it back!
Yet a CH4D shell holder costs almost as much as a Lee bullet sizer!
The other manufacturers were content with a simple photo, even the value of the goods was more than 16 MISERABLE dollars

there is a proverb from us: "Who pays first, eats stinking fish" (that is, if you pay in advance you receive goods that are not good!) And unfortunately if I want something I must necessarily pay in advance and hope for Divine Providence!

[BillP]

I'd say put Lee on your do not buy list and move on. You aren't alone.

[redhawk0]

Have your daughter pick up an RCBS set and bring it back to you. You'll be happier in the long run even at the additional price. My experience has been that Lee is ok for some items...but not everything. I've never had a bad RCBS die set yet.

redhawk

[Omega]

Have your daughter pick up an RCBS set and bring it back to you. You'll be happier in the long run even at the additional price. My experience has been that Lee is ok for some items...but not everything. I've never had a bad RCBS die set yet.

redhawkThen he would need a Lube-a-Matic too right?

[airone46]

I have some Lee and MANY MANY MANY equipment Redding, RCBS CH.4D, LYMAN.
Some Lee equipment is fine, others ...

I remember a joke:
"Two old friends, John and Tom, meet after a long time." John asks the other:
How does your wife love? And Tom: Mah! There are those who say well, and some say it wrong! "
(I hope my translator computer has translated well!)

Lee's items are like Tom's wife! A PUTTANATA (= ***** ???? RUBBISH ???)!

YOU GIVE WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
You can not take Kelly Brook or Manuela Arcuri out for dinner, and spend ONE DOLLAR!

[mdi]

Wow! An Italian Lee Hater. I have been using Lee tools since 1969 when I started reloading with a Lee Loader. I have not had any problems that some complain about (life long machinist/mechanic, and I know how to use tools as they are designed). I had one real problem with Lee tools/equipment; a 45 ACP powder through die had a small step in the expander section and would not flare the case mouth enough for cast bullets.

I have 2 Lee presses, mebbe 13 die sets, 14 molds, and perhaps a dozen assorted tools, and I have not been able to replicate some of the problems Lee Haters come up with when I use the tools properly. Just because someone reloads does not mean he has any mechanical ability/aptitude. Some guys can't even use a hammer correctly...

I remember my Daddy saying to me when I had a problem when working on mybike (age 12), "First, ya gotta be smarter than the tool".

[airone46]

I have Lyman 410 Lube and Sizer for 38/357.
With the 7.5x55 Swiss I shot a little and then I bought an electrostatic gun, and for this reason I do not need to lube!
And then at .308 Lyman Lube and Sizer Die costs around $ 24, the lee about $ 16!

In Italy we say: The more you spend, the less you spend!
Holy words!

[redhawk0]

Then he would need a Lube-a-Matic too right?

Oh my error...I just re-read the original post....I misinterpreted his needs. I thought he was talking about the sizer button in the sizing die.

Yes...about the only thing that would help here is a new push through sizer of the correct diameter.

Sorry about the misinterpretation.

redhawk

[airone46]

Wow! An Italian Lee Hater. I have been using Lee tools since 1969 when I started reloading with a Lee Loader. I have not had any problems that some complain about (life long machinist/mechanic, and I know how to use tools as they are designed). I had one real problem with Lee tools/equipment; a 45 ACP powder through die had a small step in the expander section and would not flare the case mouth enough for cast bullets.

I have 2 Lee presses, mebbe 13 die sets, 14 molds, and perhaps a dozen assorted tools, and I have not been able to replicate some of the problems Lee Haters come up with when I use the tools properly. Just because someone reloads does not mean he has any mechanical ability/aptitude. Some guys can't even use a hammer correctly...

I remember my Daddy saying to me when I had a problem when working on mybike (age 12), "First, ya gotta be smarter than the tool".

I am not an ITALIAN LEE HATER !!!
In fact I have several die, molds and one Turret Press Lee
I have already said that in 60 years of activity as a reloader, it is possible to have some small problem!
Simply that Lee, for $ 16, has sought so many excuses that made their proposals stupid and unacceptable. Instead the other companies have solved every problem even for MUCH more expensive items!

PS my first press? Spartan press! My first dies? Lyman and 310 Tool and dies! My first sizer? Lyman 410!
So I was only 13 years old! Then I grew up and I earned more money!
So .... my second press? Redding Ultramag! My second dies? Redding Competition, RCBS Competition, CH 4D, Hornady items!
Then I became OLD! So I bought the houses for my daughters, the new cars for my wife and my three daughters, and finally I bought the Turret, Lee and mold dies!
In the end I almost finished paying houses and cars, and I bought again RCBS, Redding, Hornady!
I hope I have made clear the meaning of my speech!

[Green Frog]

Airone46, in view of this experience you are having with Lee, and the conditions placed on commerce by your location, you may wish to re-examine your strategy and pay (in the US via your daughter) the somewhat greater price for a Lyman or RCBS sizing die for your existing lubri-sizing press. If it’s a Lyman, either brand of dies will fit it. If you simply must have a Lee push-through sizing die, perhaps your daughter could bring the return (wrong size) die as she comes to the US next time and send it in from “locally” for much less money. In these days of instant access to vendors via Amazon and other internet vendors, sometimes we expect everyone to always have have the same conveniences we do... forgive me if my suggestions are unsatisfactory, but I’m just attacking your problem the way I would if I were in your position. I too have used reloading equipment for many years (about 45 or so) and know that if you buy and use enough stuff something is bound to be wrong or not work. Here we attribute it to “Murphy’s Law” and just try to move on. Again, I wish you luck.

Green Frog

[Tracy]

Wow! An Italian Lee Hater. I have been using Lee tools since 1969 when I started reloading with a Lee Loader. I have not had any problems that some complain about (life long machinist/mechanic, and I know how to use tools as they are designed). I had one real problem with Lee tools/equipment; a 45 ACP powder through die had a small step in the expander section and would not flare the case mouth enough for cast bullets.

I have 2 Lee presses, mebbe 13 die sets, 14 molds, and perhaps a dozen assorted tools, and I have not been able to replicate some of the problems Lee Haters come up with when I use the tools properly. Just because someone reloads does not mean he has any mechanical ability/aptitude. Some guys can't even use a hammer correctly...

I remember my Daddy saying to me when I had a problem when working on mybike (age 12), "First, ya gotta be smarter than the tool".

A good mechanic told me a long time ago that if a toolmaker didn't think enough of their tools to warranty them for life, I shouldn't think enough of them to buy them. Also that you can tell a lot about a mechanic by the tools he uses.

[airone46]

The problem is not the $ 16 dollars of the sizer, nor where to buy a new sizer, nor what kind of sizer to buy, nor how much to spend !!! The problem is the lack of interest on the part of Lee, and wanting to be right at all costs, proposing unrealistic solutions (= take me for my a * s)!: Groner:
I live in Sicily, my daughter in Milan (she left already early this morning!).
So either I sent to my daughter, and then my daughter from N.Y. shipped to Hartford (total cost around $ 29.01), or I shipped directly to Hartoford ($ 96.51).
The first solution was less expensive, but my daughter DOES NOT WANT to waste time shipping! And he is not wrong! It only stops a week!
I must coat bulletts with epoxid powder + electrostatic gun, and for this reason I exclude a lube and size (I have 410 lube and size for 50 years: but is LYMAN no LEE!).
I practice as a surgeon in Emergency Surgery: do you think I can not spend a few euros and buy a new one? If I buy ONE pizza to eat at my house, I spend MUCH more! And I ate MANY more pizzas than sizer has ever bought!
But I can not stand being taken for a ride!
I can spend thousands of dollars with great indifference, but sometimes I get my head cut off for a cent!

[Taterhead]

I can relate. I'm 0/2 on Lee bullet sizers.

I can say with great confidence that if NOE can get their sizing die to you, that the sizing bushing that you order will be in the size specified. ALL of my NOE bullet sizing bushings are sized properly. Their die is compatible with the red Lee collection container.

[mdi]

The OP started out complaining about Lee products; "LEE IMPRECISION ". It took a while to explain the costs involved in getting reloading tools to Italy. I think his main thought was complaining about an inanimate object, a tool that has been used by hundreds of thousands f reloaders million of times successfully, for whatever reason. I call a post like this from a "Lee Hater".

My last 25 years I worked as a heavy duty constriction equipment mechanic/electrician, working on every thing from a chain saw to a 26 ton hydro crane. I saw "tool snobbery" and haters quite often. Those that bought tools because their favorite TV motorcycle builder used them or their favorite NASCAR racer/pit crew was sponsored by them ("If it ain't Snap-ON [or MAC, OTC, etc.] it's junk", or "Only a fool would buy Craftsman [or Proto, etc])"). I have tools by most manufacturers from Craftsman up to Snap-ON, MAC, MATCO, OTC, Williams, and several purpose built tools by equipment manufacturers ( special tools for Toyota diesel forklifts, special sockets for removal of starter on Detroit engines, etc.), and I most often choose tools by how well they work. Maybe I have no problems because of my background; I know how to use hand tools...

[Omega]

This is much to do about nothing IMO, the real complaint is about perceived bad customer service. If the sizer had been the correct size, would we still be having this conversation? I dare say, no. I understand, and agree that maybe, Lee should have just sent a new sizer and been done with it, but their margin is such that they probably can't have this kind of policy. The challenge for our overseas brethren is shipping, and in some cases export restrictions, that is not a fault of the company/manufacturer, it is what it is. So while Lee is inexpensive they make some decent products, some are better than others but they all work. It is no accident that they have been in business for so long, and probably will be for some time to come.

[Taterhead]

It doesn't equate to tool snobbery if the device is supposed to have a .308" hole in it but has a .311" hole instead. That is simply what you get sometimes with "price-point" gear. Lee quality is hit-and-miss. That's just how it is. It's not snobbery (or Lee bashing) to be real about that fact. NOE sizing bushings are precisely the hole size that is ordered. Further, it is more economical to outfit the drawer with a set of NOE sizing bushings and one die than it would be to outfit with a similar number of Lee sizing dies. Not snobbery. Just how it is.

[lightload]

Sir, are you referring to a Lee sizer for sizing a cast bullet? I will gladly call Lee for you and explain the problem and ask that they measure and verify the size that you want. Then I will ship it to you for the amount of the postage. The die is on me. PM me if you would like to do this.

[Tracy]

The problem is not the $ 16 dollars of the sizer, nor where to buy a new sizer, nor what kind of sizer to buy, nor how much to spend !!! The problem is the lack of interest on the part of Lee, and wanting to be right at all costs, proposing unrealistic solutions (= take me for my a * s)!: Groner:
I live in Sicily, my daughter in Milan (she left already early this morning!).
So either I sent to my daughter, and then my daughter from N.Y. shipped to Hartford (total cost around $ 29.01), or I shipped directly to Hartoford ($ 96.51).
The first solution was less expensive, but my daughter DOES NOT WANT to waste time shipping! And he is not wrong! It only stops a week!
I must coat bulletts with epoxid powder + electrostatic gun, and for this reason I exclude a lube and size (I have 410 lube and size for 50 years: but is LYMAN no LEE!).
I practice as a surgeon in Emergency Surgery: do you think I can not spend a few euros and buy a new one? If I buy ONE pizza to eat at my house, I spend MUCH more! And I ate MANY more pizzas than sizer has ever bought!
But I can not stand being taken for a ride!
I can spend thousands of dollars with great indifference, but sometimes I get my head cut off for a cent!

I'm with you, brother. Except for the part about spending thousands with indifference!

[Tracy]

It doesn't equate to tool snobbery if the device is supposed to have a .308" hole in it but has a .311" hole instead. That is simply what you get sometimes with "price-point" gear. Lee quality is hit-and-miss. That's just how it is. It's not snobbery (or Lee bashing) to be real about that fact. NOE sizing bushings are precisely the hole size that is ordered. Further, it is more economical to outfit the drawer with a set of NOE sizing bushings and one die than it would be to outfit with a similar number of Lee sizing dies. Not snobbery. Just how it is.

This.

[airone46]

I think "MDI" is wrong (I do not want to offend you !!!)!
I repeat: I am not a LEE HATER! And I repeat that I have LOTS of Lee!
He's right Green Fog when he quotes "Murphy's Law" but I would speak instead of "Probability Calculus"
For example, if someone buys a single item, it is unlikely that the item is faulty. But if someone buy MANY items instead, then the chances of having an inconvenience increase!
Omega is also right: Lee makes decent products, and they work (some good, others less well, but they work!). This don't are like Redding, but this do not cost as much as Redding!
I repeat: I commissioned for my K 31 a mold .312 (MOLD DC CTL312-160-2R) + sizer .308, and when after some time I want to use it, I realize it is a .311!
I do not know who made the mistake: the package is written .308, but on the item is written .311 (too big for a K 31!). I measure, and the gauge gives me the measure .311 !!!
Of course with a pack that can be opened and closed easily, an exchange of items can happen!
If Lee had made sealed packages, people would have seen if the package had been opened before being sold! And for Lee the cost is the same!
The retailer tells me to contact the manufacturer, because he had ordered the item exclusively at my request!
In truth, I do not think the exchange was made by the local seller! Rather than Lee was wrong to pair sizers with a label! but everything can happen!
You know the rest!
Lee could have sent the sizer to the hotel where my daughter is staying (Brownell did it with the new order!), And as I have already explained the cost would be a few dollars: less than he could have earned, if he had not neglected the client!
In fact I immediately canceled the Collet Lee die for the 7.5x55 Swiss, and I replaced it with a REDDING neck sizer!

I repeat: it is about 60 years that I reload. And so many times I bought in the USA. Occasionally for the "Murphy's law" the toast fell to the ground on the buttered side! But never, until now with Lee! Simply that the other manufacturers have always helped me, sending me ALWAYS the items in Italy, and not to N.Y., as Lee could have done very well!

PS Maybe I'm O.T. ! Do I have to open another post?
But I have a Lee sizer for my Benelli 30 Luger.
On the box there is written "30 LUGER"
http://i65.tinypic.com/20aevwz.jpg

but on the sizer and on the leaflet there is written .309:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2ikphtt.jpg

can I use this sizer for the K 31?
Strange! "30 Luger" is written on the package but there is no "SIZER 30 LUGER" in the Lee catalog

[dragon813gt]

SKU: 90038 is listed as .309 in Lee’s catalog. That tag is obviously from the retailer since it has price in euros on it.

[airone46]

I think that has been said enough, and that the time has come to close the post (at least on my part)!
$ 16 are not worth the time that I spent!

I thank everyone for participating in the discussion.

Now there are answers that the translator of my computer does not make me understand well!
I sell (or gift) my .311 and I buy a .308: it's the simplest and hurried thing!
Before buying, however, I will make a cast of the barrel of my K 31 to see the exact diameter. It may be better to buy a .307!
Lee's behavior reminds me so much of Genesis 12-50, where Isaù sold the birthright for a MIXED LENTIL DISH!

LEE GOOD APPETITE! I hope you drown with these lentils!

But has any of you ever had a similar treatment on the part of Lee?

[Petander]

I just received Lee mould handles, they don't fit a new RCBS mould because one side of the handles is much too thick. The other half fits.

This doesn't surprise me much at all,for the price I happily grind some material away. I never thought to bother about warranty for the price of any Lee,I'm prepared to play machinist with Lee products. EG polishing dies is a routine. I have quite a bit of Lee equipment - and I just ordered two more Lee moulds from Titan. Heck, for $15 each I will make them work. On the other hand,a €160 RCBS mould I expect to be right,which it is.


NOE ships internationally,I just got some expander plugs. They are so exact you can calibrate your micrometer with them.

[BillP]

The OP started out complaining about Lee products; "LEE IMPRECISION ". It took a while to explain the costs involved in getting reloading tools to Italy. I think his main thought was complaining about an inanimate object, a tool that has been used by hundreds of thousands f reloaders million of times successfully, for whatever reason. I call a post like this from a "Lee Hater".

My last 25 years I worked as a heavy duty constriction equipment mechanic/electrician, working on every thing from a chain saw to a 26 ton hydro crane. I saw "tool snobbery" and haters quite often. Those that bought tools because their favorite TV motorcycle builder used them or their favorite NASCAR racer/pit crew was sponsored by them ("If it ain't Snap-ON [or MAC, OTC, etc.] it's junk", or "Only a fool would buy Craftsman [or Proto, etc])"). I have tools by most manufacturers from Craftsman up to Snap-ON, MAC, MATCO, OTC, Williams, and several purpose built tools by equipment manufacturers ( special tools for Toyota diesel forklifts, special sockets for removal of starter on Detroit engines, etc.), and I most often choose tools by how well they work. Maybe I have no problems because of my background; I know how to use hand tools...

I think you are just overly sensitive and unfair to the poster. Facts are .311 isn't .308 and Lee balked at correcting it. The wrong size has nothing to do with "knowing how to use hand tools" or "tool snobbery". Maybe you can wave a magic wand and make .311 work but I doubt it.:p

[lightman]

The only time that I tried to get help from Lee I was disappointed. I don't consider myself to be a Lee basher but they were less than helpful.

[PowPow]

I just hope that our friend in Italy is able to get what he needs to provide for his K31! Lee or otherwise. The man's rifle needs to be fed! :-)

[flashhole]

On some of the older rifles the inside bore required a .311 diameter bullet. 308 came later and there are more guns chambered for .308 than older cartridges like the .303 British that required .311 diameter bullets.

Lee did not make an inferior product.

You did not know what to buy.

Make sure the die your daughter returns with is for a .308 diameter bullet, not a .311 diameter bullet.

Lee has different part numbers for the different sizes.

[Kenstone]

The part number "LEE90038" in the OP's pic of the container is for a 0.309" sizing die.
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-lube-and-sizing-kits/309-lee-bullet-lubricating-sizing-kit

If you don't know the bore diameter and have not yet slugged the bore, I would suggest you buy the smallest size available (90037/0.308") and you can lap it out to whatever you determine you need.
jmo,
:smile:

[lefty o]

everyone can choose what they like, for me the choice is always OR, when it comes to lee items.

[airone46]

In Italy there is a proverb: "Who finds a friend, finds a treasure".
I gave the sizer to a person who needed it, and so with a few dollar item ... I made a friend and found a treasure!

I sent the link of this thread to Lee, who still does not care about his customers! He only objected to not having published the text of the e-mails between me and Mr. Peter in full on the forum! (e-mail of 29 October)
I replied to Lee that it seemed useless to do LONG discussions for a $ 16 item! Besides, I only told the truth, even though I summarized what happened with a few words! I finished my e-mail with Lee, telling them that they could do it very well if they thought I had written untrue things!

For this post, I realize I can not translate correctly: in fact, some give irrelevant answers!
FOR THE LAST TIME, I try to explain what happened:
1) - I bought, for my K 31, a sizer Lee .308 (about $ 16), but doing repeated measurements with an EXCELLENT caliber (Tesa - Swiss! -), I realized that the measure was wrong: .311 instead that .308, and I reported this to Lee. Lee wrote to send the sizer, even if I live in Italy. I replied that the shipping cost would have been much higher than the cost of the sizer; even if I had lived in the USA it would have been convenient to ship (around $ 10!). I have pointed out that, in cases similar to this, other MUCH more serious firms (RCBS, Lyman, Redding, CH-4 Tools) shipped to the client's home without claiming the return. Lee never responded to this observation of mine!
The purpose of my thread was to highlight this kind of assistance from Lee, since I had read of similar complaints with Lee's items.
In the end I wrote that this topic was closed for me!

2) - Since I have another sizer Lee .309 (for my Benelli Super Sport 30 Luger) I asked if I could use this sizer .309 for my K 31. Surely I made the mistake of not opening a new post ! For this reason, MOLTI give irrelevant answers, also because I can not express myself correctly!
FOR EXAMPLE:
- Lee did not make an inferior product. (I did not say that!) I said that Lee sold me a sizer, 311 instead of the .308 that I had ordered!)
You did not know what to buy. (I know very well what I want: a sizer .308 !!!)

[ukrifleman]

airone46
I sympathise with your problems importing goods into the EU from the US.

I no longer buy anything direct from the US, as the costs and delays to finally get my hands on the goods was crazy.

For example, I bought a Grip-N-Pull bullet puller and by the time it actually arrived, the cost had risen by over 75% of the original purchase price thanks to import taxes and VAT, plus it was held up in UK customs for 6 weeks!

I load 17 calibres all with Lee products, apart from a couple of M dies and I use a Classic turret press.

I still have my Lyman Spartan Press that I started out with many years ago, which I use mainly for bullet sizing with Lee push through sizers.

I have to state that I have been fortunate that none of my Lee products have ever been a problem.

I am fortunate that there is a main distributor for Lee products here in the UK www.henrykrank.com who stocks the whole range of Lee products.

Brands such as Lyman RCBS and Hornady are very expensive compared to Lee in the UK, you can argue that you get what you pay for but for example, when a Lee lead dipper costs £6-80 and the RCBS equivalent costs £31-50, you can see why Lee products are popular over this side of the pond.

While the UK is still in the EU, you might want to browse the Henry Krank website as you should be able to purchase from them without import tariffs.

ukrifleman.

[mdi]

I wonder if all the Hoop-La would show up if the OP said "my Lyman (or RCBS, Hornady, etc.) die is junk and doesn't give me what I think i should have". There IS a too snobbery running around in reloading forums today and all one has to do is put "Lee" in a post and the haters crawl out to contribute their vitriol. I have been using Lee Precision products since 1969, along with most other current and defunct reloading tool manufacturers, and when I try to duplicate most of the "problems" haters post about, I am unable, unless I try to use the tool like a caveman. I have been using tools since I was 10 when I started working on autos (my father was a mechanic and I was allowed to help doing small jobs) and with the exception of a few stints in other vocations, I've been a machinist/mechanic for over 55 years. Perhaps because of my background I know how to use tools as they are designed to be used, and Lee tools have preformed just like they were designed, from my first Lee Loader to my Lee turret to my Lee Bench prime. Perhaps the OP is not familiar with measuring as used in casting (like a lot of fellers try to measure small IDs with calipers or sizing cast bullets for an unknown bore dimension) or understand the physical characteristics of lead/lead alloys (not every alloy pushed through a .308" hole will stay .308"). Reports of interactions with a service rep are totally subjective as we only hear the plaintiff's side of the story.

Then there are the "weak minded" that will jump on any bandwagon that "seems" to be popular. The minor league Lee haters that just parrot what they've read. Those wanting to "fit in" or sound "cool"...

One thing, like it or not about these Lee bashing threads; Lee gets a ton of free advertising...

One thing I agree with the OP on is it's time to put this session of Lee Bashing to bed, more will appear later I'm sure... I'm done.

[airone46]

Unfortunately I believe that Italy is the country where the reloading items are the most expensive in the world!
In fact, the sizer .308 from henry Krank costs £ 22, 20 + SHIPPING !!!(= € 25.31, in Italy from Brownell it costs € 36.90 (+ 45% !!!).
With these prices, rather than shipping, one should talk about SHEEPING. It is necessary to be SHEEPS in order not to rebel against all these taxes: but not a simple rebellion, but a real FRENCH REVOLUTION with guillotine and cutting of ... very many heads!
I have the opportunity to buy from Brownell USA or from other retailers, my daughter or my son-in-law (is from Phoenix), and then they bring them to me when they return to Italy, as "GIFT" or as "USED": so I pay neither taxes nor transport!
Or there are US dealers who put a much lower price on the bill, just to sell!
It is right to pay taxes, but not when they are so high, or when they are calculated for example on the whole transport!
Brownell Italia is the only store that can supply many items, which otherwise would not be possible to buy!
For example, I am retired: on my pension I pay almost 50% tax (in addition to taxes on the houses I own!). Then when I want to spend the money of my pension on which I have already paid 50% tax, I have to pay other taxes (VAT from 22% up): and what's left of me?
In the Middle Ages the serfs paid their lord "LA DECIMA (=THE TENT ???)" (10%): now in Italy we are even worse than then!

[EDG]

MDI
Some of us have been reloading longer than you and have been tool users longer than you. I have a lot more time and experience in precision machining -45 years of it. I started reloading before LEE made any tools except whack a moles. I have a lot more equipment than you have and I have had my share of Lee defects. So I don't use Lee products without careful consideration.


I wonder if all the Hoop-La would show up if the OP said "my Lyman (or RCBS, Hornady, etc.) die is junk and doesn't give me what I think i should have". There IS a too snobbery running around in reloading forums today and all one has to do is put "Lee" in a post and the haters crawl out to contribute their vitriol. I have been using Lee Precision products since 1969, along with most other current and defunct reloading tool manufacturers, and when I try to duplicate most of the "problems" haters post about, I am unable, unless I try to use the tool like a caveman. I have been using tools since I was 10 when I started working on autos (my father was a mechanic and I was allowed to help doing small jobs) and with the exception of a few stints in other vocations, I've been a machinist/mechanic for over 55 years. Perhaps because of my background I know how to use tools as they are designed to be used, and Lee tools have preformed just like they were designed, from my first Lee Loader to my Lee turret to my Lee Bench prime. Perhaps the OP is not familiar with measuring as used in casting (like a lot of fellers try to measure small IDs with calipers or sizing cast bullets for an unknown bore dimension) or understand the physical characteristics of lead/lead alloys (not every alloy pushed through a .308" hole will stay .308"). Reports of interactions with a service rep are totally subjective as we only hear the plaintiff's side of the story.

Then there are the "weak minded" that will jump on any bandwagon that "seems" to be popular. The minor league Lee haters that just parrot what they've read. Those wanting to "fit in" or sound "cool"...

One thing, like it or not about these Lee bashing threads; Lee gets a ton of free advertising...

One thing I agree with the OP on is it's time to put this session of Lee Bashing to bed, more will appear later I'm sure... I'm done.

[lefty o]

one sure guarantee when lee is discussed, its gonna turn into a pissin' match! if you like lee stuff, use . more power to you. i personally dislike lee, my opinion, my choice. if you feel the need to whine about my choice, you got more problems than lee being your tool choice.

[EDG]

Lee tends to design with an eye toward innovation. It appears that the object of their innovation is the marketing term of product differentation. Often product differentation is used just to make an otherwise hohum item look a little better in the market place.
So from Lee you get the silly round die boxes that it takes Lee forever to quit using. You get an integral expander that eventually gets redesigned to provide a shorter expander section. You get short die bodies that do not work on some presses. You get plastic drum or plastic chambered powder measures that leak ball powders, bottom pour lead melters that leak, you get a beam balance that that has poor dampening. Then there are the little aluminum presses that break with heavy duty use....

[Omega]

And yet, thousands of new reloaders start with Lee products. Like Lee or not, it does not stop them from being one of the top popular brand.

[Walks]

LEE has some great idea's. But they use very cheap materials.
I used only the Lee decapper for .45acp/.30-06 for most of my life, decapped a lot of G.I. brass that way. When I starting Cowboy Action Shooting with my DAD, He found 3 used LEE 2cav molds at a gunshow. Said the Round Noses were more in line with the style of CAS for our COLT SAA'S in .44spl, only $12 bucks for 3 2cav molds. Molds are still working fine, always treated gently. Lubed well. That was 1988. Old man passed 3 months later, only got to shoot 1 match with the COTO COWBOYS.

Years pass, all the guys that shoot .44-40 rifles as I do are raving about the new LEE Factory CRIMP Die. Greatest thing in the world, best thing for loading .44-40 & .38-40 rifle ammo.
So I bought one, worked like ****. Called LEE, was told I didn't know what I was doing.
I told them I could read. The package said .44-40 & the die was stamped .44mag.
They said that was impossible, but if I gave them a credit card # they would be glad to sell a new die for .44-40 for 20% more then I had paid for the original incorrectly labeled die/package. And $8 s&h.

The way I figure it. Buying cheap is a **** shoot. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[EDG]

If you don't know anything better you have little experience. Therefore price comparison is often the ONLY data people have to go by. After all reloading is a process for economy minded people who are will to put out the effort to recycle empty cases. Therefore the cost cutting green horn is naturally going to pick the cheapest place to start even though it may not be the best solution over the long haul.
Just cruise this site and many others for constant criticism of Lee tools.



And yet, thousands of new reloaders start with Lee products. Like Lee or not, it does not stop them from being one of the top popular brand.

[EDG]

Minute shaver do you reload and have you priced a new current model Corvette?





Theres a car company, Japanese name, not sure if its actually made in japan or not. The cars normally cost 20-30,000 and are ok. They are very popular in some metro areas for spending 20-30,000 in upgrades on to make into street racers. They do ok as street racers.

Except that its been proven in actual independent racing by racing teams that a stock, entry level current production Corvette, mustang, or dodge muscle car actually costs the same or less, and out performs it. Whos a fool for buying either one?

[Traffer]

There is also the potential for someone in the supply chain to have tampered with this die (put a 311 in a 308) or perhaps the language barrier played a part. It is very rare to get completely wrong sizes in packages from Lee. They are actually pretty good. As far as the cost of shipping and handling, I remember buying parts for Fiats back in the '70's when I worked on them. $42 for a zinc seat catch. Equivalent to about $200 now. When I inquired as to why it was so expensive... they said it went through about 6 hands in the supply chain and each person doubled the price.
I like Lee equipment. Haven't had any problems. In fact I broke parts twice...my fault...replaced free of charge.

[airone46]

I realize that almost everyone gives OT answers!
The title of my post is LEE PRECISON OR LEE IMPRECISION?
The word "PRECISION / IMPRECISION" was used by me not in the "mechanical" sense, to say that Lee makes mechanically little precise items!
On the quality of the material and the finishings I NEVER said anything!
In fact I can not claim to have a 2 carat diamond at the price of about € 42! At that price I can only have a ZIRCONE !!!
https://www.gemselect.com/italian/zircon/zircon-377554.php
https://www.gemselect.com/italian/diamond/diamond-382090.php
I HAVE USED THE TERM "PRECISION / IMPRECISION" IN SARCASTIC SENSING, REFERRING EXCLUSIVELY TO THE QUALITY OF THE ASSISTANCE OF LEE!
Sorry if "I cry", but I hope that in this way I can make myself understood!
I summarize the situation:
1) - I already have a sizer Lee .309 (see photo) but I want one .308.
2) - I buy the sizer .308 and I read on the package ".308": I measure the sizer and I see that the diameter is instead .311!
3) - The steps are:
- Lee produces the item and sends it to the importer
- The importer puts OUT a box with an Italian name and price tag. Then send it to the retailer.
- The dealer sells it to me.
- I buy, PAY, and I find myself an object SIMPLY DIFFERENT from the one commissioned!
The retailer says he has no fault and to address the importer; the same says the importer and I refer to the manufacturer LEE: Lee tells me to send the sizer at my expense at the cost of over FOUR times the price of the sizer, and, ONLY if it will be faulty, it will change!

At this point I give the sizer, and the next time my daughter goes to USA, I tell her to bring me an NOE !!!

I think it happened as someone said in this forum: a sizer .311 was placed inside a sizer .308 package! Who did the exchange? Impossible to know!
But if Lee had applied a plate like that of the "30 Luger" sizer on the edge of the package, it would have been impossible to open it without tearing it! So, if you accept an item with a torn label, you also accept the risk of a tampered item!

In all this, Lee has behaved worse than Esau in the passage of the Bible, which sells his first birth to his brother Joseph for a miserable dish of lentils!
For a few dollars he has lost the trust of at least ONE BUYER! For others I do not know! But I think they are intent on thinking like me!

I invite the readers of the post to tell EXCLUSIVELY about their experiences of assistance from Lee, and to say whether it is correct to demand the return of an item with a shipping cost many times above its value.
Please do not write anything, IN THIS POST, on the quality of the Lee items (workmanship and materials), because it would be OT!

Thank you!

[Traffer]

-Dude... do they use the word "Dude" in Italy? I don't want to be a pain to you but, you need to lighten up here man. Your outrage is not appropriate for the situation. A mistake happened...
A mistake for less than one hour's wages. Have yourself one of those very good bottles of Italian wine and consider the good things in life. Take a drive in the mountains, or along the coast... thank God for the quality of life you enjoy. Pray for the people involved in the situation...I guarantee you will feel better.

[mdi]

MDI
Some of us have been reloading longer than you and have been tool users longer than you. I have a lot more time and experience in precision machining -45 years of it. I started reloading before LEE made any tools except whack a moles. I have a lot more equipment than you have and I have had my share of Lee defects. So I don't use Lee products without careful consideration.
Wow! I didn't know you knew me. How much you think you know about me is jes plain old BS. You have no idea about what you are saying about me. Precision machinist? I have made titanium parts that were held to .0005" tolerance. My tools? I only have three Craftsman tool chests (10 drawers) w/top boxes (9 drawers) full of tools (and I gave away and sold a lot when I retired.), plus my 54" roll away I keep for my "everyday tools". Reloading longer (I started in '69)? Possibly, but doing some thing wrong for 40 years way way stupider than doing it right for 10 years. Tool users longer? Possibly, but again if you use tools incorrectly for 50 years it is much worse than using tools correctly for 5 years and means very little.

As I stated earlier, but I'll say it more plainly now; the biggest problems with Lee tools is the club fisted, ignorant use, and the inability to read and understand instructions. Added to this are the tool snobs that think their choice is the only sane choice and everything else is junk. I like Lees innovative designs, and the use of modern materials. Yes there are problems with Lee tools but every tool manufactured by humans can have defects (yes even RCBS. I've had "bad" RCBS dies from the factory, but nothing a few minutes with though and a file couldn't fix).

Please confine your comments to something you know about (or think you know).

[Omega]

OP, in your case, I would have just went and purchased another sizer, locally, and taken a pin guage to confirm what I purchased.

I would be more pissed at the locals than Lee, when I buy something from a retailer, and it's not what I purchased, or broken, I don't go to the manufacturer, I go to the retailer to fix it. They buy in bulk, and can absorb those charges or re-label it a .311 and keep their customer happy.

[Kenstone]

I've read where the OP has added some rules for posting here, so I'm out...
But will leave these questions to contemplate.
Where is the Lee factory label on the red container, did the retailer or importer remove/replace it with their own?
Why is the part # (90038) on the bogus label for 0.309" and the die is 0.311" ?
Why is not the retailer responsible for the wrong label, wrong product when a 0.308"(90038) was requested by the OP.
Why did you accept the retailer and importer's non-responsibility excuse and decide Lee was at fault?
Just asking, no need to answer,
:?

[EDG]

Well after your long recitation of how you can walk on water I think I know you pretty well.
Now you are regaling us with an inventory of all the tools you may have ever owned. Yet you say nothing about your inventory of reloading tools. I have well over 100 different die sets of RCBS, Redding, CH and Bonanza dies. I also own or have owned about 20 sets of LEE dies.
A half thousandth tolerance is a lot compared to plus or minus 50 millionths on air gauged parts.
Titanium? You have to be kidding. In the medical implant business 6AL4V titanium and even tougher ASTM F75 Cobalt Chrome alloys are standard materials. Titanium is also a common material in aerospace and semiconductor industries. I have worked in those industries as a manufacturing engineer after working my way through a university degree. Of those 50 plus years I also traveled to hundreds of the best contract and OEM machine shops in the US, UK, Germany, Canada, Singapore and China....

Yet you know nothing about me. I guarantee that there is always someone who has done more, of a greater variety for more years and greater precision.

PS RCBS FL die bodies are case hardened. A file will not touch them unless you anneal the die.
There are real problems with some items from Lee. You just have not used that many and you chose to blame others without investigating their claims. It is very easy to do a google search of broken Lee press and find photos of the broken little presses that Lee palmed off on a lot of newbies.



Wow! I didn't know you knew me. How much you think you know about me is jes plain old BS. You have no idea about what you are saying about me. Precision machinist? I have made titanium parts that were held to .0005" tolerance. My tools? I only have three Craftsman tool chests (10 drawers) w/top boxes (9 drawers) full of tools (and I gave away and sold a lot when I retired.), plus my 54" roll away I keep for my "everyday tools". Reloading longer (I started in '69)? Possibly, but doing some thing wrong for 40 years way way stupider than doing it right for 10 years. Tool users longer? Possibly, but again if you use tools incorrectly for 50 years it is much worse than using tools correctly for 5 years and means very little.

As I stated earlier, but I'll say it more plainly now; the biggest problems with Lee tools is the club fisted, ignorant use, and the inability to read and understand instructions. Added to this are the tool snobs that think their choice is the only sane choice and everything else is junk. I like Lees innovative designs, and the use of modern materials. Yes there are problems with Lee tools but every tool manufactured by humans can have defects (yes even RCBS. I've had "bad" RCBS dies from the factory, but nothing a few minutes with though and a file couldn't fix).

Please confine your comments to something you know about (or think you know).9

[ReloaderFred]

This has gone on long enough. Thread locked.