Update on Allient MZ Powder & "REAL" bullets

[vrh]

Here is the update that I promised to post.
Shot my CVA Frontier 50 cal. rifle loaded with 50 gr, 60 gr & 70 gr of Allient MZ powder. Loaded a fiber wad, followed up with a "Real' 250 gr bullet. Fired 5 shots on each charge. Target was at 75 yds. Only one bullet hit the target. Don't know where the rest of them went.
I then brought out my CVA Elite Stalker inline rifle. Repeated the loads and fired at 75 yds.
Below is a group that I finally got after a lot of shooting and adjusting scope.
Never had to swab the bores on either gun the whole time I was shooting. This powder has a strong smell to the smoke after shooting. Plus it didn't pour into powder measure as easy as regular black powder does.
I will repeat the shooting of the "Real" bullets in my inline to see if they stay the same.229288

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I hope you seated the projectile hard. This powder needs heavy compression in order to be accurate. Failure to compress the powder will cause erratic accuracy.

100 yards, 250gr REAL, felt wad, 80gr MZ. Shot in bulls eye was normal load with 80gr Pyrodex P.
229289

[vrh]

How hard should you compress the powder? Thought I was putting enough pressure on it, but maybe not enough.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

You'll feel the powder compress. It will probably be 50 to 60 lbs of seating pressure.

[vrh]

MAN !!!! That is a bunch.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

not really, its basically putting your upper body weight into the end of the ramrod. You will certainly feel the powder compress once you lean into it.

[quilbilly]

I have been testing it with round ball and a tight patch which take some pressure to seat anyway. Apparently normal seating pressure is enough with PRB because I have found it to be more accurate than my usual 3F in either my 45's or 50's.

[OFFSHORE]

Reading this on their web site;

*** Helpful hints for best results with Alliant Powder's Black MZ

Our experience through testing and hunting has been that best results are attained in the 50 caliber muzzleloader using 90 grains volumetric of Black MZ with sabot bullet weights of 240 grains to 260 grains.
Make sure that the barrel is clean and totally dry (swab barrel with dry patches until there is no evidence of moisture).
Black MZ functions best when heavily compressed by the seated sabot.
If you need further help or information please contact us at 800-276-9337. ***

I was wondering if this powder is similar to Blackhorn 209 in regards to only using it in in-line muzzleloaders with 209 primers? I love BH 209 in my T/C Encore, but I've knocked off the dust on my T/C Renegade and would like to find a cleaner substitute for FFg in the .54 caliber, would this be it?

[arcticap]

No, this powder is not similar to BH 209.

It is similar to American Pioneer Powder with the exact same patent number.

Many have said that it's rebranded American Pioneer with a large granulation.

Goex Pinnacle powder was also rebranded American Pioneer, except that came in different granulations as does APP.

3F APP would probably burn cleaner and produce more velocity than Black MZ at a slightly higher cost.

Shockey's Gold is also made by APP.

[OFFSHORE]

No, this powder is not similar to BH 209.

It is similar to American Pioneer Powder with the exact same patent number.

Many have said that it's rebranded American Pioneer with a large granulation.

Goex Pinnacle powder was also rebranded American Pioneer, except that came in different granulations as does APP.

3F APP would probably burn cleaner and produce more velocity than Black MZ at a slightly higher cost.

Shockey's Gold is also made by APP.

How would you compare Triple 7 3F to the American Pioneer Powder 3F? As far as cleanings between shot and velocity.

[yeahbub]

Triple 7 definitely gets the nod for velocity, and accuracy was good, BUT clean your piece within an hour or two of your last shot, especially in a humid environment. It's labeled as "Sulfur Free", intimating that it's less corrosive than true black, but it's oxidizer rich and will rust steel in a hurry - much faster than BP. I delayed cleaning a .31 until the next day and was ripping patches apart on the jag trying to get the rust out of there. Rusty water pipe, anyone? I still have some around here I don't use, but I can't see my way clear to inflict it on anyone. A lot of people do use it with good results, but their cleaning habits must be diligent or they're just not talking about their pitted bores and rusty guns. It is easy to clean, but again, the cleaning must be thorough or you'll have rust breaking out in nooks and crannies you thought you cleaned. APP seems to be on the other end of the scale - good in some ways, somewhat less so on velocity. In rifles, loads can be adjusted to satisfy velocity needs but you'll probably be using a bit more of it to get there, since velocity-per-grain is less than with T7. It's also compressible, which affects velocities for the better when somewhat compressed, but you'll have to experiment with it to see how to get the results you're after. In a cap and ball revolver, the compressibility is a huge plus, making it easier to still get the ball/boolit all the way in the chamber if you happen to get a bit much in there. The fouling is essentially non-corrosive and truly water-soluble, making cleaning a snap. A water or Windex patch through the barrel and a wipe-down on other areas and it's clean. With APP, I haven't seen any rust with even casual care. One thing; The adverts claim you don't need to use a patch or boolit lube, but I never took this seriously and I never saw a downside to using the usual lubes associated with BP. YMMV.

[arcticap]

According to the Chrony results from this Youtube video, Black MZ was more potent than Goex 2F shooting a 300 grain .54 REAL bullet and 70 grains of each powder:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR0zHGpxfOQdzMIjTiXNaXF5iLo53Lj1ozq MBRHQGbH_y19TnVqMyoN0aKg&feature=youtu.be&v=hOb993fh15Q&app=desktop

[Newtire]

Had great luck with the stuff. Likes heavier projectiles but shot good in my little .32's also. No rust here in dry Idaho climate using it. Not comparable to Pyrodex in that Pyrodex rusts things up quickly. Smoke is bad as posted earlier. Going out of production they say. Too bad! Many bad things attributed to it that I find to not be true.

[HumptyDumpty]

Man, you guys read my mind; I was just looking at this stuff, principally due to the "non-corrosive" claim. It seems like it shoots all right, and I can find it for 10 bucks a pound. I just bought a bunch of the old'fashioned stuff from Graf's, but I may need to grab a jar of this, and compare for myself...

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

get it while you can. American Pioneer went belly up and no more will be made in APP form or for Alliant.

[dondiego]

Where is it still available?

[dondiego]

Where is it still available?
Edit - Found it at Sportsman's Warehouse

[HumptyDumpty]

Yep, that's where I found it too.
Edit: Egadd, the hazmat fee is twenty bucks, on top of shipping. The price-per-pound officially drops below Graf's 2fg, at the three pound mark pound mark; 20.37 vs 19.64. It starts going down pretty quickly from there on in. What a pickle. I'm not sure that I need to stock up on so much powder....

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Yes you do. Its better to get it while you can then to wait and kick the tires and miss out on it.

[dondiego]

Yes you do. Its better to get it while you can then to wait and kick the tires and miss out on it.

I definitely agree with this! I got 5 pounds for a little over $15 per pound shipped to my door. I have way more than that in real black powder though. I just wanted to try the MZ.