40 S&W loads and a Limpwrist girl

[flintlocknfur]

Ok, Ive searched and can't find any old info on this one.

My wife bought a 40 sigma. Im trying to load the lee 145 gr lubed with plain 50/50 over 5.5gr unique for it. The load is very accurate at that weight. Just trying to get a light play/plink load for her.

Heres the problem, that weight bullet/load shoots well for me, but when she shoots it, it will occasionally fail to go fully forward into battery. My only idea is its too light a load for her hands combined with the light sigma=not enough energy for the slide..??

So do I use a heavier load or a heavier bullet, or both?

If I could stuff blackpowder in it Id be ok....

[jhalcott]

Buy her a pair of GOOD shooting gloves. This might tighten her grip enough to make the present load work. Depending on HER response to heavier recoil the option of the heavy bullet may work. Since this is a "play/plink " load, I'd go for the glove first. Then you can try the other options when you get the time.

[44man]

A lack of strength in the wrists is hard to solve. She is going to have to apply more strength to the hold. The gun might still be coming back when the slide starts foreward.

[mike in co]

try a box of commercial cast...omg....135's..........see if it helps.....
if it works......start a group buy.

mike in co

[OBXPilgrim]

I let a guy shoot my 45 Glock one day at the range & he could get it to jam on every shoot - he's the only person that had ever jammed it. He limp wristed it every time.

If I had thought about it at the time, I would have done what I did to help my neice learn how to shoot it - she was scared of it at first - thought it would kick too much. I had her hold the unloaded gun like she would shoot it. She dry fired it a few times, but I cycled the action buy racking the slide back while she held it pointed at the target. I told her that if exactly what would happen when it loaded itself, only faster.

I seemed to work. Maybe trying to keep the gun pointed on target, while racking the slide might show her the force required to let the gun react to itself.

[9.3X62AL]

The real cause of slide travel anomalies due to "limp-wristing" is the change of direction given to the slide already in motion as the pistol receiver pivots on the axis of the thumb/forefinger web of the shooting hand. The long-term cure is strengthening of the little finger and ring finger of the shooting hand to counteract that pivoting motion. THIS is the principal disadvantage of the autopistol over the double-action revolver in defensive shooting scenarios involving shooters of little experience--with the D/A revo trigger stroke, the entire hand is tensing and securing the revolver in place as the shot is fired, while with the self-loader's 3 recoil impulses (the shot, slide slam-back, slide slam-forward) a shooter needs to learn to maintain grip tension throughout a longer time period, sometimes termed "learning to ride the recoil properly". This "ride the recoil" element of autopistol shooting is the most perishable skill element of defensive pistol shooting, and the principal reason why periodic autopistol defensive practice is far more critical to maintaining proficiency than is practice with a D/A wheelgun--second only to learning the muscle memory of control locations like safety/decocker and slide release. There is a LOT more demanded of an autopistol operator to exploit the system's tactical advantages than is asked of a revolver operator.

[flintlocknfur]

thanks for all the responses.Its not a grip problem, or a her being afraid of anything issue, SHes pistol learneded. The girl can shoot, she is from Montana after all, not your average gal, (shes more of a Palin type,LOL) Id pitty the SOB that messs with her actually. She shoots my .45, and up just fine.

Its not a prob with commercial ammo, I actually had to buy her a box..First one in 25 years.

Hence my ? about bigger bullet? More powder? different powder?

[mooman76]

You're the one that titled this limp wristed girl. That's why you got the responce you did. Nothing wrong with the powder selection or the bullet. Try upping the powder a little, that would be the simplest choice. A heavier bullet would probublly work too, your choice. You could also put a lighter return sping in it if you want to go there.

[waksupi]

Shaun, are there aftermarket recoil springs available? A lighter one may be in order.

[9.3X62AL]

Ah, ha.

Yes, a bit more powder and/or a bit more lead could resolve the issue. Kinda like The Holy Black in that regard, eh? :)

The 40 S&W is a fairly high-pressure caliber, and below a certain internal ballistic level it (and other autopistol calibers) will get balky. It's not nearly as user-friendly as the 45 ACP in just about all regards.

Store-bought FACTORY LOADS??!! HORRORS!!

[Bass Ackward]

I would look the gun over very closely. What I hear you saying is that you are trying to get the gun to do what is unnatural for it. So you may have to accommodate it some.

This could be simply a better lubrication issue. The feed ramp could need a little polishing and this should be visible. Could be a little OAL issue also that would facilitate a smoother feed motion at that power level. Or it can simply be in need a little more shooting with full power stuff. Sometimes working the slide with a little JB paste on the slide can expedite the smoothing.

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

[gunman444]

I Have Cut Off 1911 Springs In A Springfield 40xd And They Worked .
Gunman444

[redneckdan]

My glock 22 load is a lee 175 TC over 4.0gr of promo. Strong enough to get the slide to cycle, slow enough to avoid leading, cheap enough for a college student. Had ladies night at the range tonight and went through 200rds without a single failure to feed.

[flintlocknfur]

Thought of the recoil spring, Ive since read where some others have changed them for the sigma for better the same reason. I don't want to change it much as its her daily carry gun, but may have to. Hyrda shocks feed fine...but are no fun, or cheap.

Ive loaded a series of gradualy increased Unique charges with the same 145 bullet, theres not much offered between 145 and 180 grain in a 40 mould so powder is first try. Data for cast in a 40 is non existant in my books... Maybe some 3f would work better..

Yes feed ramp may need a polish or just more break in. Having the occasional feeding screw up is good for tactical training anyway....

After this Im going back to my flintr...its easier. To much new fangled stuff confuzes me...

Yep just like black

Thanks

[shooting on a shoestring]

Well I suggest a good cap 'n ball. There was a time in my college days my old Remington clone served as the final word when things went bump in the night. I never felt under-gunned, it was just a bit un-handy to periodically unload, clean, reload to keep the loads fresh.

[Blackwater]

[smilie=l:I've taught a number of women to shoot, and without exception, revolver or auto, I taught them how to grip the gun before letting them shoot. I also taught them WHY to do it as I taught them, and with the grip, I taught them to grip it firmly and with taut (but not tight) forearms. I taught them the REASON for this was it helped them steady their aim, and helped get a quicker 2nd shot, should such be needed. When they shot autos, I also informed them that "limp wristing" with an auto could result in failures to feed, and if that happened, their bright shiny new gun became nothing but a club - not something they wanted if they were in a bad spot. It works. You have to talk to some women in a way that connects their emotions instead of their intellect (as well as some men, BTW), and when you tell them these things, and do it with a serious demeanor, most women will understand and follow your lead.

FWIW, another little "trick" I like to use is at the initial firing, I like to tell them that they're not going to understand WHY I want them to do this, but if they'll just do as I say and trust me, they'll understand why afterward, and I then have them take their loaded gun (muffs on always) and face downrange. Then I tell them to point their gun at the ground about 10-15' from them, and close their eyes and fire it. They always say "But how can I hit the target like that?" I then tell them that this brief drill isn't about hitting the target, and indeed they're not supposed to hit the target yet, and I just cajole them into doing as I say. After they've shot a couple of rounds into the ground, I tell them "See! The gun jumps a little, but nothing bad or that you can't handle, and all these years you've been told guns 'kick,' right?" This little drill has (so far at least) universally dispelled their fear of recoil. With their fear of recoil gone, and when they find that wearing muffs makes the muzzle blast totally bearable, they've gone on to outshoot most MEN I've taught to shoot.

The great thing about teaching a woman to shoot who's never really done any shooting is that they'll LISTEN, while most men, other than kids, will want to argue with you a lot, and resist your good instruction. I'd much rather teach a woman to shoot than a man, given the choice solely on the basis of sex. Funny how that works, ain't it? [smilie=l:

Try just teaching her this - the stiff (but NOT TIGHT) forearms. It may well help. If she won't listen to you (imagine that - a wife not wanting to listen to her husband?) try getting a friend who's a cop or noted target shooter to teach her the same thing. Sometimes they'll listen to someone in uniform "because they're SUPPOSED to know."

Worst case scenario, look her in the eye, tell her you love her, but you can't always be there when needed, and if someone ever breaks into your home, she NEEDS to be able to quickly and effectively meet the danger on her own. Always pause there. It gives this idea time to sink in. Let them think for a moment. They CAN, but they sometimes don't really LIKE to. Then tell her "Let's try this now, ... " and just keep trying to get her to do the stiff forearms thing until you find something that works. Occasionally, you just have to "wear them down" to get them to do the right thing.

Sometimes, too, the fault is more ours for not expecting much from them. They "get" that from our demeanor, tone, etc., and react accordingly. Never tell them to do something unless you EXPECT them to do it, and do it well. Never criticize women. They'll just do worse. Always let them know WHY you want them to do what you're telling them to do. This strengthens their faith in the results it'll bring, and almost always helps get to competency in the fewest shots and shortest time possible.

Just a few observations from my own personal experience that may help.

[jameslovesjammie]

I would say that the lighter spring approach would work...

OR

Trade that Sigma off on a 610. :bigsmyl2: Limp wrist wouldn't make any difference then!

[Lloyd Smale]

first thing i would try is to seat your bullets a tad deaper and run your rounds through a lee factory crimp die. I dont think your load is all that light and your factory spring should be fine at that level. Failure to return to battery is usually a problem you will see with to light of a spring not to heavy.