Need advice on new .54 cal muzzleloader Accurate Bullet Mold

[OFFSHORE]

I posted this thread in the "Boolit Molds" forum section with no response. . .maybe I started this in the wrong area and I'll get some answers here?


I have decided that I would like to cast some boolits for my .54 cal T/C Renegade and give Tom some more of my business over at Accurate Bullet Molds. The mold design in question is the 55-430M and it is a taper design. What I could use some advice on is the step down graduations in bullet diameter on the driving bands. On the order form it is required to list the diameters you want for each band and I have no idea how many thousandths I should decrease/increase (nose to heel, vise versa) in diameter per band??? It is my understanding the taper design is to aid in the loading of the boolit in the muzzle, so should I have the bottom band diameter the same as my slugged bore diameter and then go .xxx" thousandths larger than my bore diameter per band moving up the boolit to the front band? There are four driving bands on this boolit and lets say my bore diameter is .550", how would you fellas spec-out this mold? As usual. . .I appreciate all the wisdom and advice I can get from you all. Thank you.

[Jniedbalski]

Just ask the mold maker. He should know what works

[arcticap]

Some folks would slug their bore to try to get an accurate reading of its dimensions.
There are ways to do that by expelling a loaded bullet or lead slug using a CO2 device or igniting a tiny amount of powder
and catching the bullet in a very soft media such as a box full of blankets.

Or this may be the more professional method:

"Brownell's sells a product name Cerrosafe (link--->>> https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/barrel-chamfering-accessories/cerrosafe-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx). It melts at 160 degrees f, so put some water in a saucepan and bring it to a low boil; cut off some Cerrosafe with a hacksaw and put it in another pot, set that pot in the boiling water and let it melt. While it's melting, wad up some paper towel to make a plug for the bore; pierce the plug with a long piece of stiff wire and put a 'J' hook on the end. Pull the wire back through so that the hook is pulled back into the plug. Put the plug in the barrel, pushing it down about 4 inches. When the Cerrosafe is melted, pour it in the bore; about two or two and a half inches is all you need. Let it cool. Cerrosafe will expand to fill the bore as a liquid, and then shrink when cooling to allow you to pull the plug from the barrel; after 60 minutes it expands back to exactly the bore dimensions so you can easily measure it. It's resusable, so a half pound brick lasts forever.

Thousands of people have been using Cerrosafe for many years in determining muzzleloader bore dimensions. It's safe, easy and cheap. And no need to pull the breech plug."--->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bore-slugging.424777/#post-5301489


At least then you'll have some very accurate measurements to work with.

Here is a description of the dimensions for the Hornady .50 Pennsylvania Conical which may act as a guide:

"...These bullets are 512 diameter at the driving band (the smooth portion of the bullet near the top).
The bullets are 502 diameter at the knurled base section. --->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/730932/hornady-pennsylvania-conical-muzzleloading-bullets-50-caliber-512-diameter-240-grain-box-of-50

[OFFSHORE]

Just ask the mold maker. He should know what works
Tom is a very busy man and with the wealth of knowledge here on this forum I was hoping that I could get my answer here. If all else fails though, I plan on asking tom.


Some folks would slug their bore to try to get an accurate reading of its dimensions.

I thoroughly understand slugging my barrel, and those are my intentions. Thank you for the Cerrosafe recommendation, I've never used that product before and I will be giving it a try. The Hornady bullet for instance, although not the same bullet as I'm looking to cast. The front driving band is .512" and the rear is .502, that leaves a difference of .010" nose to heel. In my case, the bullet I'm going to be using, the Accurate 55-430M, has 4 driving bands (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=55-430M-D.png), very similar to the Lyman Plains Bullet (www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000152654657/single-cavity-rifle-bullet-plains-mould-number-548657-54-caliber-450-grain) so in this instance, would one say that for each driving band there should be a graduation of .0025 per band? Is there an industry standard or rule of thumb out there that states what the taper should be?

I'm just throwing numbers out here - looking at the bullet diagram, driving band 1 is at the nose of the said bullet and band 4 is at the base and lets say my bore slugs at .550". Should I start the rear driving band #4 at .550" or the front driving band #1 at .550" then increase/decrease the band diameters from there? And how much of a degree of taper is required?

[Edward]

Call the mold maker and ask they are always busy , but they have always advised me .So yup they make time for customers /Ed

[arcticap]

Besides having a taper at the base to help start the loading, I don't know why all of the driving bands would need to be tapered.

It's a heavy bullet that produces extra pressure, and that requires containing a lot of hot gases to inhibit blow-by.

Take a look at the Lee .54 REAL bullet mold.
It's listed as being .557 in diameter.--->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010215619/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-54-380-real-54-caliber-557-diameter-380-grain-real
I don't know if that's only the top band or not.

Perhaps if you tried casting and shooting one of those, it would give you some ideas about how to size the driving bands on your custom mold.

Have you ever fired heavy conicals from your Renegade?
Did it shoot them well?
Perhaps they can be measured & used as a basis for your custom mold by tweaking the measurements if needed.
Generally, shorter bullets are more accurate from a medium twist barrel.
And they may have more velocity to help stabilize it and to have flatter trajectory.
It might be worth performing a shooting test to compare more than one bullet weight and length.

[Good Cheer]

Looking at the Accurate catalog, seeing the boolit design, I'd be worried about the short bearing length. Not saying it won't shoot well for you just that by my experience I'd be worried. My guesses are that you'll need to limit the amount of expansion (close fit to bore) and use cards to inhibit gas cutting.

I'd want bigger lube grooves too but with the Renegade barrel length maybe it's got plenty. I've never used a design without bigger lube grooves so actually I just don't know about that.
:p

[arcticap]

Interesting close up look at the 300 grain .54 REAL bullet.
They load really easy and below the video is an email address where a person can buy some.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR3TOWZHfilQr4RmLBd8gxQ3w9CugUE-CyIu_fhol5iZGCKcJJ72iqzDTB0&feature=youtu.be&v=25tG88iV0pI&app=desktop

[OFFSHORE]

Looking at the Accurate catalog, seeing the boolit design, I'd be worried about the short bearing length. Not saying it won't shoot well for you just that by my experience I'd be worried. My guesses are that you'll need to limit the amount of expansion (close fit to bore) and use cards to inhibit gas cutting.

I'd want bigger lube grooves too but with the Renegade barrel length maybe it's got plenty. I've never used a design without bigger lube grooves so actually I just don't know about that.
:p

Years ago when I shot this gun a lot I used the T/C Maxi Hunter and this bullet was deadly accurate with 85 grains of FFFg. T/C for whatever reason discontinued this bullet several years ago, so now that I'm casting my own bullets I thought I would dust off the old rifle and have some fun casting for it. The 55-430M is as close as I've been able to find matching the T/C. I don't even have one of those T/C bullets around anymore to have a mold made from it. What are you referring to by "using cards" for gas cutting?

[ShooterAZ]

OFFSHORE, I have that mold, and I ordered it .001 over the "as drawn" dimensions on the main drive band. I use it in a Lyman 54 Deerstalker (1/48 twist) and it's a tackdriver. It does need to be started with a small mallet, but once started it slides home very easily. I have taken a couple of Elk with it, it's a real thumper. I can send you a handful to try if you'd like before you buy the mold...shoot me a PM if interested.

[Good Cheer]

Years ago when I shot this gun a lot I used the T/C Maxi Hunter and this bullet was deadly accurate with 85 grains of FFFg. T/C for whatever reason discontinued this bullet several years ago, so now that I'm casting my own bullets I thought I would dust off the old rifle and have some fun casting for it. The 55-430M is as close as I've been able to find matching the T/C. I don't even have one of those T/C bullets around anymore to have a mold made from it. What are you referring to by "using cards" for gas cutting?

Card wads to help reduce gas cutting before the boolit fills the rifling.
The reason I brought it up is that the more stubby a design is the harder I've found it is to get that sealing off before gas cutting messes up my boolit.

Does this look like the one you was using before? Has a shallow HP in the blunt nose.
It seals off pretty darn good.
229362

[OFFSHORE]

OFFSHORE, I have that mold, and I ordered it .001 over the "as drawn" dimensions on the main drive band. I use it in a Lyman 54 Deerstalker (1/48 twist) and it's a tackdriver. It does need to be started with a small mallet, but once started it slides home very easily. I have taken a couple of Elk with it, it's a real thumper. I can send you a handful to try if you'd like before you buy the mold...shoot me a PM if interested.

ShooterAZ,

I would love to try some, and thank you very much. PM inbound.

[OFFSHORE]

Card wads to help reduce gas cutting before the boolit fills the rifling.
The reason I brought it up is that the more stubby a design is the harder I've found it is to get that sealing off before gas cutting messes up my boolit.

Does this look like the one you was using before? Has a shallow HP in the blunt nose.
It seals off pretty darn good.
229362

Good Cheer,

Yes, that would be the one. . .T/C Maxi Hunter. That one in your picture looks like it put a hurt'n on something! "Card wad", what is the material? I've used felt wads in a cap-n-ball revolver before, is that the same principle?

[Good Cheer]

Milk cartons, juice cartons, poster board, whatever you find works for you.
You know those compressed paper egg cartons? I've used those with the disks soaked in melted lube. They aren't very strong but can be stacked. When the shot is fired they squish together and expel some of the lube. Sometimes I've stacked them until having a good enough dam to impede the gas flow, about the same as using braided gasket material in packing a valve stem.
A 9/16" arc punch works to stamp them out for .54 caliber.

And that reminds me, if my plans work out for the .58, I'd better rummage around for a 5/8" punch.

[725]

offshore,
good stuff here, but don't overlook a regular t/c maxi-ball. super accurate in every caliber i've shot it in and it lands like a freight train. many drt's and only a few short tracking jobs. some shoot good with a bare bottom and some shot good with a lubed fiber wad between the powder & boolit. I shoot them in a scout pistol (.45, .50, .54) and various rifles of those calibers.