20-1 without the solder

[littlejack]

Has anybody done any R&D or investigating on making the 20-1 alloy with ww metal and lead. I know that we cannot do anything about the antimony in the ww metal, but can it be watered down "so to speak" so the antimony will not be so previlant in the mix. I want to cast bullets for my 45-70 but do not want to go to the expense of buying the 50/50 solder. Put on your scientific caps, We should be able to come close. Correct?
Jack
Woops, put it under the wrong heading.

[Bullshop]

Well Sir 20 to 1 is 20 parts lead to 1 part tin. If you overlook the antimony in the WW and figurd the tin at about .5% you still have to add tin. You can get tin from solder or buy pure tin or whatever but you still have to add tin somehow. No free lunch there.
BIC/BS

[littlejack]

Bs:
From what most casters say and what I have read, the only purpose of the tin is to help the lead fill out the moulds. So do you think that the .5% tin would be enough for this purpose? If some shooters us a 30-1 or even a 40-1 alloy in their bp rifle that means that the tin percentile is even less than the 20-1 alloy, yes? So, would one have to add more lead to the mix to get the desired softness that they were after and to counteract the antimony hardening characteristics?
Jack

[Dale53]

20/1 is 5% tin.
30/1 is 3.33% tin.
40/1 is 2.5% tin.

However, many have good results for their BPCR with WW+2% tin. This gives a good casting alloy but still works well with Black Powder.

Dale53

[Jim]

Littlejack,
The addition of tin to the mix does harden the alloy some. Not much, but it does bring it up above the BHN of lead. When you add lead free solder, it raises the BHN considerably as the bonded copper in the solder acts as a hardener.

[missionary5155]

I have been using mixes a long time with near no tin... or as little as possible. I just turn the heat up a bit more. The nice thing about a "set" mix is you can repeat it and for Black Powder repeatability is ALL important. But if I can get a 2-3 inch group at 100 yards with pure lead I sure have no need for any tin. And if pure WW does the same well guess what I am gonna shoot. That to me is the Joy of reloading... finding out I do not have to follow the "set rules of 140 years ago"... I wonder how many Buffs would have fell to pure WW if IT had been so readily available and free (harder to find today) ...

[MT Gianni]

Bs:
From what most casters say and what I have read, the only purpose of the tin is to help the lead fill out the moulds. So do you think that the .5% tin would be enough for this purpose? If some shooters us a 30-1 or even a 40-1 alloy in their bp rifle that means that the tin percentile is even less than the 20-1 alloy, yes? So, would one have to add more lead to the mix to get the desired softness that they were after and to counteract the antimony hardening characteristics?
Jack

The reason they are using these allows is because they are repeatable and replaceable albeit at a high cost. WW work, pure PB works as Missionary has said. WW are not as easily repeatable. You should blend up several hundred punds and work up a load with that, keeping it exclusive for that gun. Gianni

[Bullshop]

We sell lots of pure lead boolits here so know for certain tin is not needed to cast good boolits. However that was not the title of your post, it was questioning how to make 20/1 alloy without tin which is impossible.
For certain you can make an alloy from WW of equal hardness as 20/1 alloy but that was not what you asked.
That will be very simple, WW at av. bhn-12 to equal 20/1 bhn 9. Just add lead.
The tin in pure lead bhn-5 adds some hardness and reduces surface tension so the melt is more fluid and yes does make it easier to get good fill out but is not neccessarry to do so. Perfect boolits can be cast from pure lead if proper tecnique is learned.
BIC/BS

[jhalcott]

I fooled around trying to get the PERFECT alloy for several years. Being the lazy type, I found it far easier and just as accurate to use a wheel weight alloy for much of my shooting. Certain target shooting would get linotype bullets.MOST hunting is done with straight ww alloy. For those times when a harder alloy is required, I use an alloy of lino and pure lead mixed to give me a BHN of 15 or so. It seems to be a lot of extra work to do for a limited advantage to me. Those 300 to 405 grain WW bullets shoot fine in MY 45-70 contender and bolt action Mauser.