Got me a Rook rifle.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

Our club's annual auction was at the weekend and I picked up a WH Tisdall Rook Rifle manufactured in Birmingham UK in .380 cal. It is a rolling block action and quite unique (some might say ugly....[smilie=1:).

There were a pair of .380's in the auction and the other piece was a Martini action that was just lovely. It went for more than I was prepared to spend on a "may or may not be shootable" rifle. Fortunately the rifle I bought was 4 lots further on and so I bought the ugly sister for a lot less.

The roller has a 27 1/2 inch barrel with 3 leaf express sights (tight and in good condition) with a bead up front.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0188.jpg

Aciton is TIGHT and though I have worked the trigger the pull is still very heavy so I will have to try and fabricate another spring.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0185.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0186.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0189.jpg

Bore is very shootable though cares its share of pitting for a 140 year old rifle. Rifling is crisp and well defined however. Best I can measure the groove is .369 which is kinda tight for a .380 Rook but kinda loose for a .360 Rook. I have trimmed up some .38 Special brass and at .945 they chamber and eject reliably though this case length is a little short of what 'Cartridges of the World' list for the .380 also. HHHMMM. Following is .38Sp, .380 and .38 S&W for comparison.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0191.jpg

I have ordered a .377-124 heel bullet mould from Jim at CBE as his mould is a copy of the original bullet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/377125H380RookOriginal.jpg

Thus far I have been shooting the rifle with a .395 round ball run into my .375 lubesizer die to create a .375 ball(et), bullet with belt. The ball(et) is seated in the case mouth just enough for a friction hold.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0199.jpg

These ball(et)s at 94gr have been loaded over 4.5gr Unique and generate just shy of 1200fps and printed this at 25m.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/Rook1.jpg

The four shots are in under an inch and the low round was from a tight chambering round where I had seated the ball a bit firm and created a belt of lead larger than the OD of the cartridge. Have also been shooting the same ball(et) over a BP load and getting similar accuracy and velocity. Both loads have an unlubed bullet and a grease cookie over the powder. I start with a lubed bore and get no leading at all.

Will post a photo of the rifle itself this evening and keep you all updated on progress.

[johniv]

Very nice. Those old rifles are fasinating. My 380 (I think) has a bore about .364 , is marked "380" on the rec. and "105" on the bbl. It works well with 38 long colt cases and hollow base wadcutters,but is best with a 'beagled' 358480 135 gr lyman. Let us know how the heeled mold works.
John

[Bigjohn]

That would have to qualify as a unique action and interesting.

I believe in shooting the old ones just as much as the newer versions, if at all possible. I believe it is a sort of connection between us and the previous owners.:drinks:

John

[Buckshot]

................Jeff, what great fun, eh? Boy oh boy it looks like it's going to be a shooter too. I'll bet that that "105" on johniv's Rook is the boolit weight? The slug from the mould you're looking to get looks very much like a RB with a flat end. Your moded RB @ 94grs will probably be just as much a viable projectile as your new slug from CBE. Heck, it might carry that accuracy to 50 yards if your eyes can stand it! :-)

.................Buckshot

[JeffinNZ]

Hey Buckshot. I would wager the 105 on johniv's piece is the case length. 1.05 inches is the prescribe length according to Mr Barnes. Original bullet weight is 124gr.

Here is the rifle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0201.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Rook%20rifle%20project/DSCN0200.jpg

Yeap, looks like it just might justify staying in the safe. :-D:drinks:

[NoDakJak]

Congratulations Jeff. Not only for buying the rifle but also the fact that you are off to a good start on loading and shooting it. That is definetly an odd bore size. Keep us posted. Neil

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Nice rifle Jeff, you don't often see a rolling block with a one piece stock. Could turn out to be a real tack driver.
Morgan

[PatMarlin]

Good looking piece.. :drinks:

[Buckshot]

.................. 124 grs is the correct boolit weight? Okay, with your 94gr Ball-ette and the 124gr slug you're covered from varmints to big game, HA!

.................Buckshot

[JeffinNZ]

AND best of all it runs on the smell of a canister of powder!

[StrawHat]

Jeff,

In the photo of the disassembled action, there is a spring at the upper right. I see where it attaches at the fore of the action but what does it do?

Also, is that a two piece mainspring?

An interesting action, it almost looks simple to machine, especially for the smaller cartridges.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Having worked on these type actions, I'll take the liberty of answering for your questions. The spring on the upper right is the breechblock spring. It allows it to snap open and closed. The two other springs are the mainspring and trigger spring, held by the same screw in the upper tang.
Morgan

[exblaster]

Please to correct me if I am wrong but is the rifle not a second model Flobert action? I ask because I have a cadet version of this rifle in .32 S&W long . It has a full stock with cleaning rod under the barrel and a bayonet.


Thanks
Exblaster

[PatMarlin]

Cool 220v wall plug outlet.

[carpetman]

Jeff--nice looking rifle. I bet when the other bidders saw you in your purple long johns, they were laughing too hard to bid.

[scrapcan]

What would happen if you push your ball-ette into the sizer die and swaged a flat base and some type of round or SWC nose shape onto it. Maybe even just bump/swage some other willet of the correct weight to the shape you want.

That is a pretty cool rifle and should be loads of fun to roll the soda can around at the range.

[Echo]

What a neat rifle - I am envious!

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff--nice looking rifle. I bet when the other bidders saw you in your purple long johns, they were laughing too hard to bid.

SSSHHHHH!!! That's my search tactic for distracting the other bidders.


What would happen if you push your ball-ette into the sizer die and swaged a flat base and some type of round or SWC nose shape onto it. Maybe even just bump/swage some other willet of the correct weight to the shape you want.

Was thinking something similar but I don't like bumping much for fear of breaking my hideously expensive 4500.

MORGAN: Spot on with the springs. Gotta work out how to lighten the trigger spring though as the pull is still heavy; maybe 6-7lb.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Jeff, The "traditional" way, is to thin it progressively(like a buggy whip), toward the load (trigger), leaving it full thickness in the screw area, and the part bearing on the trigger, then polishing out all tool marks, to prevent a stress crack. This can be tricky if being done the first time, and I've had good results using the "hourglass method", used by companies selling "action lighning kits" to Cowboy Action shooters. Instead of thinning the spring in the usual way(The flat surface), you remove a little material off each edge in the middle section, leaving it full width in the screw and trigger area, so it sort of resembles the letter "I". Then, polish the complete spring so it looks chrome plated. The same can be done with the other two springs, and you'll be proud to show off your work.:drinks:
Morgan

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff, The "traditional" way, is to thin it progressively(like a buggy whip), toward the load (trigger), leaving it full thickness in the screw area, and the part bearing on the trigger, then polishing out all tool marks, to prevent a stress crack. This can be tricky if being done the first time, and I've had good results using the "hourglass method", used by companies selling "action lighning kits" to Cowboy Action shooters. Instead of thinning the spring in the usual way(The flat surface), you remove a little material off each edge in the middle section, leaving it full width in the screw and trigger area, so it sort of resembles the letter "I". Then, polish the complete spring so it looks chrome plated. The same can be done with the other two springs, and you'll be proud to show off your work.:drinks:
Morgan

Hey, thanks Morgan. I am more than a little nervous at the thought but to shoot well it will require some work. I have worked over trigger/sear engagement area and that made a significant improvement. Failing that I will have to place the whole rifle in a large vice and carry that around for shooting. [smilie=1::-D

Having the crown touched up today. SSSHHH. Don't tell the purist collectors. My theory is the original manufacturer would approve of his piece still being shot this far down the track and I require the best accuracy I can get out of the old girl.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Please to correct me if I am wrong but is the rifle not a second model Flobert action? I ask because I have a cadet version of this rifle in .32 S&W long . It has a full stock with cleaning rod under the barrel and a bayonet.


Thanks
Exblaster

Exblaster, You're right, but I never heard it called the "Second Model'. I believe the "Second Model" was the Warnant System, with a breechblock that's hinged in the front, swinging down behind the breech, sort of like a Trapdoor. A much stronger system.
This one's usually called the "Remington System Flobert", because of its resemblence to the Remington RB's. The giveaway, is the mating surfaces of the hammer/breechblock, which dovetail into each other, to affect lockup, as opposed to the true RB, where the hammer arcs under the breechblock, locking it. These were usually made in .22rf., but some were also made in.32.
Morgan

[JeffinNZ]

Just had a local benchrester/clever machinist recrown the wee rifle Lopped about 3/8 off the muzzle. Took him 2 as long to set up the barrel in the lathe as to do the job - that's why he does my work. Rifling can now been seen at the crown!!!!!!! He is presently putting the front sight back on.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Jeff, As per your PM. Here are two photos of the mainspring in one of my Uberti Colt SAA clones. These springs are thin flat stock, and so are best lightened by thinning the edges.
Morgan

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/spring1.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/spring2.jpg