My Fake S&W Mod 13 Air Crewman

[fastdadio]

I just got some sad news from Roy Jinks today. My Air Crewman is a fake. Turns out that some one stamped the Air Force markings and model number on a .38 military & police airweight, pre mod 12. Which is in it's self, a very rare hand gun. It was shipped from the factory on July 9, 1936 to the Charleston Hardware in WV. for $39.71, S&W has offered to replace the aluminum cylinder with a steel one for no charge. I thought that was generous. Thanks S&W. In the interest of safety going forward, I'll have this done. At least I can shoot it then. But then what? What has this done to the value of the mod 12, and how do you put a value on some thing that has been defaced? So what say the collective? What would you do with it?

[skeettx]

Shoot the heck out of it !!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Tough break...sorry that happened. I guess its main value now is in utility and as a good story-telling object. Guess you'll never see the seller again?

[fastdadio]

Tough break...sorry that happened. I guess its main value now is in utility and as a good story-telling object. Guess you'll never see the seller again?

Oh no. It was my dad's. He passed in 08. It was part of his collection and I just got around to doing the research on it. Had it been correct, I would have sold it. Honestly, I have no interest in it. No shortage of nice revolvers to shoot over here, and I have concealed carry covered from derringers to small plastic pistols to 1911's. Sad that someone defaced an otherwise nice rare revolver. Hope pops didn't get stung on it. Maybe I'll list it on GB and see what happens. With full disclaimer of course.

[FergusonTO35]

How deep are the markings?

[9.3X62AL]

Given the totality of the situation, I like your selected option of having the factory fit a steel cylinder to the existing platform. I would have trouble selling off any gun that I got from my deceased Dad. The steel cylinder would allow for shooting with judiciously-selected 38 Special standard-pressure ammo.

[fastdadio]

How deep are the markings?

I don't really know how to answer that but to say pretty deep. If one were to try and polish them out, it would be noticeable.

[fastdadio]

Given the totality of the situation, I like your selected option of having the factory fit a steel cylinder to the existing platform. I would have trouble selling off any gun that I got from my deceased Dad. The steel cylinder would allow for shooting with judiciously-selected 38 Special standard-pressure ammo.

I understand what you're saying. But this was a rather large collection. Some of the items (like this) were bought purely for speculation. The nicer stuff and guns he liked and actually used are staying.

[El Bibliotecario]

I suspect S&W will not return the alloy cylinder--but if you return a cylinderless weapon they may balk at furnishing a replacement.

[fastdadio]

I suspect S&W will not return the alloy cylinder--but if you return a cylinderless weapon they may balk at furnishing a replacement.

I expect they would not. From a liability stand point, they want that aluminum cylinder out of circulation. understandable.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm confused, is there a typo in the title to this thread ?

The gun in question is a pre-model 12 with an aluminum cylinder that was marked to make it look like an Air crewman but is really a pre-model 12 not a model 13. Or did I miss something?

[fastdadio]

I'm confused, is there a typo in the title to this thread ?

The gun in question is a pre-model 12 with an aluminum cylinder that was marked to make it look like an Air crewman but is really a pre-model 12 not a model 13. Or did I miss something?

You're spot on. A pre-mod 12, .38 M&P Airweight, with aluminum cylinder, that has been marked/stamped as a Mod-13 Air Crewman. Someone along the line has attempted to counterfeit an Air Crewman by stamping the markings on a pre-mod 12. I guess the title to the thread is misleading, since it's not an Air Crewman. I'll go change it.

Edit,
I can't change the thread title

[Petrol & Powder]

So the thread title should say: "My Fake S&W Mod 12 Air-Crewman"

And I understand that you can't edit the thread title.

[fastdadio]

So the thread title should say: "My Fake S&W Mod 12 Air-Crewman"

And I understand that you can't edit the thread title.

Yes, that would be much more accurate. So, what would you do with it?

[Jniedbalski]

Shoot it. It’s a cool gun as is but if you have plenty sombody will like it just for a conservation peice

[HATCH]

Yes, that would be much more accurate. So, what would you do with it?

I already edited. It said "S&W Mod 13 Air-Crewman"

[fastdadio]

I already edited. It said "S&W Mod 13 Air-Crewman"

Thanks.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Keep the original cylinder and buy a steel one from e-bay and hope it is a decent fit.

[fastdadio]

Keep the original cylinder and buy a steel one from e-bay and hope it is a decent fit.

There's a thought.

[Petrol & Powder]

I already edited. It said "S&W Mod 13 Air-Crewman"

Splitting hairs here BUT: The U.S. Air force M13 is not the same thing as a S&W Model 13.

The U.S. Air Force M13 was a S&W pre-model 12 that had an aluminum alloy frame and an aluminum cylinder and was marked on the back strap "Property of U.S. Air Force" and Later on just "U.S." It was known as the M13 but that was an Air Force designation, not a S&W model name.

Later, S&W released the Model 13 which was a steel K-frame chambered in .357 magnum and had fixed sights.

M13 and Model 13 are not the same thing in this particular instance.

A S&W Model 12 looks like a M13 but the model 12 has a steel cylinder.

[Steppenwolf]

I just got some sad news from Roy Jinks today. My Air Crewman is a fake. Turns out that some one stamped the Air Force markings and model number on a .38 military & police airweight, pre mod 12. Which is in it's self, a very rare hand gun. It was shipped from the factory on July 9, 1936 to the Charleston Hardware in WV. for $39.71, S&W has offered to replace the aluminum cylinder with a steel one for no charge. I thought that was generous. Thanks S&W. In the interest of safety going forward, I'll have this done. At least I can shoot it then. But then what? What has this done to the value of the mod 12, and how do you put a value on some thing that has been defaced? So what say the collective? What would you do with it?

Good on S&W for coming through with a steel cylinder and as skeettz says shot the heck out of it.

[Gewehr-Guy]

I'd like to trade you a real Aircrewman for your fake one, as mine got smashed by the Gubberment ! I did get a couple of good parts off it though.

[fastdadio]

I'd like to trade you a real Aircrewman for your fake one, as mine got smashed by the Gubberment ! I did get a couple of good parts off it though.

Close, but no cigar. What else ya got?

[Petrol & Powder]

fastdadio, I also think you have a typo concerning the date.

Could that date be 1956 instead of 1936?

1956 would work as a plausible date for a pre-model 12.

[9.3X62AL]

Isn't nomenclature FUN??

[Petrol & Powder]

Isn't nomenclature FUN??
It can be....

[fastdadio]

fastdadio, I also think you have a typo concerning the date.

Could that date be 1956 instead of 1936?

1956 would work as a plausible date for a pre-model 12.
I just double checked the letter from Roy Jinks, and yup, that's the date given. It says it shipped from the factory on July 9 1936, and was delivered to the Charleston Hardware Co. Maybe Roy hit the wrong key. For $75.00 bux, I expect it to be accurate. But then, I'm no expert on these things. That's why I hired one. Why do you question it?

[Petrol & Powder]

That is likely a typo from Roy Jinks or there is something else at play. Perhaps he researched the wrong gun by accident.

S&W didn't make a lightweight alloy framed revolver in the 1930's. The pre-model 12 lightweight was made in the 1950's and later became the model 12 when S&W started using model numbers. The early examples were made with aluminum cylinders, including the M13 Air Crewman revolvers sold to the U.S. Air Force. The aluminum cylinders proved to be problematic and eventually the military guns were largely destroyed. S&W would replace the aluminum cylinders on civilian models whenever they came back to the factory.


Because the real U.S. Air Force Air Crewman guns are now rare and command a premium, they are often faked.

[beagle]

From examining a bunch of Air Force M13s that were condemned, I can see the reason that S & W and the government didn't want them on the street. Most had barrels that you could wobble with your fingers and cylinders were all messed up. I know no history on these guns but suspect they were issue guns that had been carried to VN by air crews as it was about that era. No telling what ammo was used in them and the climate in VN was really bad on our M16s so between these two factors, that did them in. I wouldn't have fired one for anything in the condition I saw them but someone probably did. Don't know if they were de-milled or not as they were on hold at the time. Not accountable at the time and I could have absconded with one but had no desire for that piece of junk after examination./beagle

[fastdadio]

That is likely a typo from Roy Jinks or there is something else at play. Perhaps he researched the wrong gun by accident.

S&W didn't make a lightweight alloy framed revolver in the 1930's. The pre-model 12 lightweight was made in the 1950's and later became the model 12 when S&W started using model numbers. The early examples were made with aluminum cylinders, including the M13 Air Crewman revolvers sold to the U.S. Air Force. The aluminum cylinders proved to be problematic and eventually the military guns were largely destroyed. S&W would replace the aluminum cylinders on civilian models whenever they came back to the factory.


Because the real U.S. Air Force Air Crewman guns are now rare and command a premium, they are often faked.

Looks like I'll have to follow up and confirm the date printed in this letter. This could take a while if I can't find an e-mail address. Thanks.

[fastdadio]

From examining a bunch of Air Force M13s that were condemned, I can see the reason that S & W and the government didn't want them on the street. Most had barrels that you could wobble with your fingers and cylinders were all messed up. I know no history on these guns but suspect they were issue guns that had been carried to VN by air crews as it was about that era. No telling what ammo was used in them and the climate in VN was really bad on our M16s so between these two factors, that did them in. I wouldn't have fired one for anything in the condition I saw them but someone probably did. Don't know if they were de-milled or not as they were on hold at the time. Not accountable at the time and I could have absconded with one but had no desire for that piece of junk after examination./beagle

I'm not exactly impressed with this one either. Which is why I stated earlier that I have no real desire to keep or shoot it. It's tight though, and shows little wear.