Do not exceed this do not exceed that can we just agree

[BigBlack]

Here’s the setup”
Brand New Ruger M77 Hawkeye 30-06 All Weather
Bullet: 165gr Hornady SST
Powder: IMR4350
Primer: CCI BR2
Brass: Federal

Prep the brass using the following method:
Tumbled
Full Length Resized
Trimmed, cleaned primer pockets, champhered (sp?) and re-tumbled
Wiped down and blew out cases with compressor
Weighed each piece of brass and grouped
Hand Primed

Now with the brass ready I measured each charge working from the min to the max according to Hornady. My lee manual’s max was a little lighter than the Hornady manual I was using.

Tested the rounds and as I approached the Hornady max of 57grs the groups were tightening up. I never reach anything better that 1.5”. My velocity topped out at 2800fps on the max charge rounds. Needless to say I started perusing borrowed manuals from reloader friends and I find a lot of conflicting min and max ranges more so on the max numbers. I have in my hand right now a IMR load data sheet listing 60grs max for a 165gr bullet in 30-06. This is 4grs more than I loaded as my max.

Who should I use as a max?
Why are there such varying data out there?
Anyone with experience using my components listed above?

PS: Absolutly no pressure signs

[felix]

You answered your own question..... no pressure signs. There is only one way to measure pressure without sophisticated equipment, and that is to measure the diameter of the case at the location immediately past the extraction groove on the body size of the case. Mike the case before and after each shot, starting with fresh cases. Any more than 0.0005 is too hot for case longevity. If you are going to shoot and discard, then you can go 0.001 with safety. These are averages for 3 cases. Needless to say the target impact of each round has to be right on. ... felix

[BigBlack]

Thanks felix will add your method to my case pre and post documentation.

[scrapcan]

welcome to the confusion. I have noted this for years, I came to the conclusion that you must work loads for every firearm. If you want to see some even higher than you may already ahve look for Speer number 8 or 9 manual.

Also look to see what they used for the test bed, all of the loading may not have been done with a universal receiver having pressure measuring capabilities.

Felix gave you good advice on the use of case head diameter. There is a good discussion on this method in several of the cartridge conversion manuals (i.e Donnely).

[bobk]

BigBlack,
Yeah, and older manuals often have higher charges. That said, I'd try the same load, with different primers. This can sometimes make quite a difference in accuracy. Then I would try varying seating depth. I have not had a ton of Rugers, but the ones I did work with had long throats.

Having "been there", I never saw any advantage to weighing cases, uniforming flash holes, or running the rounds in a dial indicator setup.

Seating depth may not be very important, either. The length of the full-diameter portion of the bullet, is. My Ruger .257 has such a long throat that it will not shoot worth beans with anything lighter than 100 Gr. The reason is, the bullet is long enough that the nose has engaged the rifling before the base has exited the mouth of the case. It is supported at both ends, and so is more likely to be concentric with the bore. I had a M70 .300 Weatherby that had a very long throat; wouldn't shoot 165's, did well with 180's and up.

Accurate Arms at least used to list 57 of their 4350 (it's slower) behind the 180. This is my .30-'06 load, period, with a 180 Partition. Shoots under an inch, 2806 out of a 24" pre-64. A mild load that I use in my model 54's is the same weight of AA3100, same bullet, about 2670. Mild, accurate, probably will do anything I ever need to do. If you must have a 165, consider the X bullet, which due to it's being made out of copper, may be longer. I say "may", because they keep changing the specs on their bullets. I no longer buy them. I want to be able to get the same bullet that I got previously, since I spent so much time working up the loads.
Bob K

[BigBlack]

I think I am going to play with the previous loads but change the seating depth for now.

[missionary5155]

Yep I agree with that seating depth... You can keep adding powder... but soon you enter the field of diminishing returns... Add 2 grains and gain 20fps ???
Start looking into chambers and you will see all sorts of rifling lead, free bore, rifling styles... Chamber cutters are not all the same. It would be interesting to make chamber casts of 10 rifles from 10 different years or 10 months from the same major manufacturer... With the computerized tooling that variance has been narrowed... but it is still there.

[fourarmed]

I have fooled around with measuring case head diameter, and have read a lot about it, and while it may prevent you from destroying your rifle from a gross overcharge, it is not a reliable and repeatable method of measuring pressure. There are just too many differences in cases and chambers. The most reliable way for the average shooter is to use a chronograph, and not exceed the maximum velocities listed in manuals for the powder you are using. Your rifle may reach maximum velocity with a different charge than is listed in the manual, but it should be regarded as the maximum charge in your rifle.

[BigBlack]

I got to buy a high dollar tool before I can incorporate this measurment, so it may not get done right now.

[anachronism]

Buy lots of manuals & use the data that most closely matches your components. I usually use the bullet manufacturers data for jacketed bullets. For cast bullets, most loads are old standards but I use the Lyman manual a lot for handgun load development. Their rifle data is mostly low performance stuff, so that's why I come to places like this.