45ACP Cast Load

[Cobra]

I'm Making some 45ACP Cast Loads:

230gr. LCFP - Bullet

WLP - Primer

10gr. Blue Dot - Powder

Any Thoughts?

[Grmps]

I could only find 1 recipe for blue dot in 45 ACP. Blue dot is more of a high-pressure powder for magnums and shotguns. I have had good luck with red dot and autocomp. 45 acp is a low Velocity cartridge generally cast with softer lead
here is the first place online I look for cast boolit load data http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/cast-bullet-data-lookup

at the end of this welcome/information, you'll find a link to a thread of free online load data and downloadable reloading

what other powders do you have? many people like Bullseye for most handgun loads,uniwue and 700X are also popular

Cobra- welcome to CB. If you decided to start casting to save money, forget it. You won't, you'll just shoot more.
Casting boolits (lead bullets) properly is a science, once you know the basics, not a hard science.
There is a lot of good information on CB. The Google search (top right of every forum page) is a gateway to all the knowledge on this forum. IF you can’t find your answer there ask the question (Please be as detailed as possible, pictures help http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?344661-Capturing-amp-Posting-screen-shots I would be very surprised if there wasn’t someone on this forum that could answer ANY (firearm related) question you might have)
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
1. Boolits need to be cast .0005 to .003 (normally .002) over the slugged diameter of your barrel for accuracy and to avoid leading. If the fit is wrong nothing else will work right.
a. slugging a barrel (it is safer to use a brass rod or a steel rod with a couple of coats of tape to avoid damaging your barrel http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm
b. chamber casting https://www.brownells.com/guntech/cerrosafe/detail.htm?lid=10614
or pound casting http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356251-Pound-Cast-instructions-(for-rifle-chamber)
2. the right alloy needs to be used for the velocity and purpose of the boolit (don’t fall into the trap of going with too hard an alloy
https://i.imgur.com/FD4XW69.png

Economical way to easily test lead hardness
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?355056-Easier-pencil-lead-hardness-testing
https://i.imgur.com/TrOTWFb.png
Some alloys harden over time
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m
different alloy’s different end hardnesses
https://i.imgur.com/O8uvZ8i.png
https://i.imgur.com/MHPjxfp.png
Lead alloy calculator
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45784&d=1341560870
3. velocity the bullet needs to be pushed hard/fast enough to get the proper spin, have the proper velocity to accurately reach the target but not so hard as to be dangerous or strip the lead off in the grooves instead of spinning the boolit..
The boolit needs to be the right weight for the riffling/twist rate of your barrel
Powders range from fast to slow, you need to choose the right powder for your barrel length & application.
Loading manuals list the best powders for certain calibers and boolit weights.
NEVER use any posted noncommercial load data without first checking commercial load data to see if falls in the safe parameter for your firearm!! There are several firearms out there that can handle much higher pressures than others!!
Link to free online load data
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

[nicholst55]

That is very nearly a Max charge in the Lyman 49th Reloading Handbook with a nominal 225 grain RN cast bullet. I would drop the charge by at least 0.5 grains to start with, and see how that works out. As stated above, Blue Dot isn't frequently used in the .45 ACP for a variety of reasons. A different (faster) powder would be something to look into.

[ericandelaine1975]

That is very nearly a Max charge in the Lyman 49th Reloading Handbook with a nominal 225 grain RN cast bullet. I would drop the charge by at least 0.5 grains to start with, and see how that works out. As stated above, Blue Dot isn't frequently used in the .45 ACP for a variety of reasons. A different (faster) powder would be something to look into.I personally use 231 or bullseye for my 230gr bullets.

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[reddog81]

Blue Dot is a good powder for HOT loads in 45 ACP, but not something I'd start out using as my first powder. I've used it a bunch for loads in a Hi Point carbine and trying to see how fast you can get a 200 grain SWC going. I was able to get close to 1,300 FPS before the case started getting real banged up by the ejector and you could really feel the bolt slam back.

For use in a 1911 I stopped at 10 grains. I would start somewhere around 9.0 to 9.5. You can go even lower, but at that point there are better powders out there. There was a big difference in the recoil between 9 grains and 10 grains.

[Outpost75]

In my experience Blue Dot is less than entirely satisfactory for hardball equivalent loads producing 850 +/- 30 fps with 230-grain bullets. You will probably experience unburned powder particles in the action and erratic velocities. Blue Dot does work well for heavy .45 ACP REVOLVER loads with 250-260 grain bullets using the charges recommended in the Speer Manuals No. 13 and later.

While some successfully use the heavier 250+ grain bullets in the M1911 pistol, I have found them to be "frame crackers" and do not recommend them.

For many years the standard service charge in the M1911 Ball cartridge was 5 grains of Bullseye. Bullseye has been used for the .45 ACP for full charges for over 100 years and in standard loadings I see no good reason to use any other powder.

228720228721

[9.3X62AL]

WW-231 and Bullseye do what I need in 45 ACP.

[Cobra]

Thanks reddog for the Info.

We are using this 230gr LCFP powder coated Bullet with the 10gr of Blue Dot for a 45acp Carbine that is +P rated also.

I think we will be alright as long as we don't exceed the pressure, Right?

[Alstep]

Why beat up yourself & your gun with hot loads? Been using 4gr Bullseye pushing the H&G 68 for years for IDPA & USPSA. Nice load that gets the job done, no malfunctions in any of my 1911's. Can shoot several hundred rounds without any pain in my old arthritic hands. Slow down & don't push your luck!

[reddog81]

10 grains should be fine for a 45 ACP carbine rated for +P loads. I'd start lower with a handgun and would avoid shooting them much in guns not rated for +P loads. Blue Dot is probably the best powder for maximizing velocity with a longer barrel, however you can get some larger extreme spreads.

[HangFireW8]

The powder companies tend to list all possible combinations, even some not optimal. Besides longer carbine barrels, the only reason I might try a heavy BD load is to generate the gas to better utilize a muzzle compensator.

[Char-Gar]

I am another vote for Bullseye for the 45ACP. The round and pistol was designed around this powder and billions of rounds have been loaded with this powder by Arsenals and various commercial factories. BE is available and small charges make it economical to use. It also have many other uses in handguns and reduced rifle loads.

[Cobra]

Thanks reddog …

And I do have a Muzzle Compensator on this 45 ACP Carbine … HangFire

I was also wondering what the longest C.O.L. might be for the 45 ACP Strassell's Carbine ( Hi-Point ) that will still function in the Clip's. ?

[fast ronnie]

I have used Unique for years in my 1911. Lately I have tried a couple of others. First try was 700x, then went to 231. Have heard Red Dot works well, but haven't tried it. Bullseye is a favorite with a lot of guys, too, but haven't tried it personally. It is an old standby powder for 45acp.

Unique shoots well, but is a little dirty unless loading up to the warm side.
700x seems to work well, too.
231 haven't used a lot yet but seems to be pretty good.
Friends kind of split between 700x and 231 with more to the 231.

[HBAR2989]

I've used a lot of red dot@ 5gr for the Lee 230 TC. Nice shooting load out of my M&P, and XDS.

[LAH]

I've used a lot of red dot@ 5gr for the Lee 230 TC. Nice shooting load out of my M&P, and XDS.

And my Blackhawk.

[mjwcaster]

I used blue dot in 45Acp when I started reloading during the shortage.
From memory you are at the higher end of the load data.
That is where I ended up at, blue dot just didn’t burn fully at lower loadings.

My white shooting table was covered with, wait, you guessed it, blue dots when loaded at lower starting weights.

It worked, I didn’t notice any issues or even greater recoil.
But as soon as I could get my hands on more suitable powder I did.


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[Petrol & Powder]

WW-231 and Bullseye do what I need in 45 ACP.

/\ Likewise

[Petrol & Powder]

And while we're at; There is just no good reason to hot rod the 45 ACP.

I shot the 45 ACP in 1911's, SIG 220's and some other pistols for years and then drifted away from that cartridge while pursuing other endeavors. Most of that shooting was with the 230 grain bullet weight.
I recently returned to playing with the 45 ACP and was instantly reminded that it is a great cartridge. On this recent journey I decided to go with the 200 grain SWC (H&G 68 style bullet). Both bullet weights (230 & 200) perform very well in the 1911.
While you can push a 45ACP pretty hard, there's just not much to be gained doing so. Why beat up the pistol to get a few more fps?

[tazman]

I recently did a test for full power loads(not +P) using 200 grain boolits in my 45ACP 1911 pistols. More as a proof of concept than anything I will ever use frequently.
Accuracy was very good and the power was definitely there. No more accurate than my light target loads though so I won't be using them on anything like a regular basis.
I agree about there not being a need to beat up a good gun.
The thing was, the full power loads gave nearly 250-300fps more speed than the standard target load without getting into high pressures in the cartridge. It had a significant increase in power. That can be useful in the right circumstances.
Normally, if I need significantly more power, I will go with a more powerful cartridge and gun.

[Char-Gar]

And while we're at; There is just no good reason to hot rod the 45 ACP.

I shot the 45 ACP in 1911's, SIG 220's and some other pistols for years and then drifted away from that cartridge while pursuing other endeavors. Most of that shooting was with the 230 grain bullet weight.
I recently returned to playing with the 45 ACP and was instantly reminded that it is a great cartridge. On this recent journey I decided to go with the 200 grain SWC (H&G 68 style bullet). Both bullet weights (230 & 200) perform very well in the 1911.
While you can push a 45ACP pretty hard, there's just not much to be gained doing so. Why beat up the pistol to get a few more fps?

About 1963, I decided to hot rod my Remington-Rand with some loads recommened by Jeff Cooper. The bullets were 200 grain cast really whistling down range with a mega dose of Unique. All was good until about the 10th round, when the firing pin stop hit the ground followed by the fireing pin and spring. It took some time crawling around in the West Texas dirt to find all the parts. After a good cleaning and reassembly, the pistol worked just fine for several more years with normal pressure loads.

I have been cured of hot roding a 1911 pistol since that day.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Char-Gar - EEK!

NOT what you'd want to happen during a self-defense situation, even WITH a backup pistol...

Used mostly near Max loads of Unique back in the day, burns a bit dirty but works reliably, with Cast (fairly hard) 230 Gr. LRN boolets mostly, now I want to try some LFP's so am working towards that. Liked the J-Word (Speer?) JFP's back then but Cast is great in this caliber.

I'd also put Wolff pack recoil springs in mine & a recoil buffer, longer frame life = less $$ spent on maintenance = a good thing. Didn't hot rod them but that last round has more slide movement due to no drag from the top round in the magazine, so those seem to help; Can see that the recoil buffer gets hit somewhat. Was mainly wanting absoute reliability, with good power & accuracy next.

[Petrol & Powder]

A 45 ACP cartridge that produces a velocity of roughly 850 fps with a 230 grain projectile will do a lot. I don't know what pushing it faster will accomplish.

[tazman]

I guess it would depend on what you were planning on shooting with the load. I can see where someone could want more power but could not afford another pistol/cartridge combination.
I wouldn't want to feed my 1911 a steady diet of the higher power stuff though.

[35remington]

People tend to go on and on about how they plan to save the frame with this or that addition to cushion it.

Unfortunately, the sharply angled corners of the slide near the breechface are stress risers for cracks as well, and the hotter the load the harder the slam the breechface takes. Nothing you do can lessen this force save not leaning on the throttle.

I tend to agree that little benefit is obtained from exceeding 850/230. The extant hollowpoints perform well at that speed and hard cast or ball penetrates well.

A gun run in its intended operating range tends to not only be more reliable, but runs reliably for a longer period before something breaks. A lot of this is intuitively evident but reminders have to be issued frequently sometimes.

[Lefty SRH]

My 220-230gr cast RN 45ACP load has been 3.8gr of CLAYS. Many many round have been shot with this load. Its very accurate and very clean in both my 625JM and my Kimber 1911.

[ericandelaine1975]

Maybe this will help. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/f1afe65bf9ad850f5b3963d53627e8e9.jpg

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[ericandelaine1975]

I would not use 10gr of blue dot. Its to much over the max load.

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[ericandelaine1975]

Maybe this will help. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/f1afe65bf9ad850f5b3963d53627e8e9.jpg

Sent from my XT1650 using TapatalkThis is from the Lyman casting book 4th edition. Sorry I forgot to tell that part.

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[WRideout]

In my experience, Blue Dot used in low pressure loads leaves a lot of unburned powder behind when fired. It seems to like a significant amount of pressure to burn completely. As in a hot magnum load.

Wayne

[Larry Gibson]

I conducted this test today using 235 gr TC bullet cast in a new (to me) Lee 6 cavity mould I acquired last month or so. The bullets were AC'd and "aged" 10 days before sizing or loading. Pressure was measured via Oehler M43 using the Contender barrel. Accuracy was excellent, as expected in all the firearms. The 50 yard ten shot group from the M98 (Rhineland conversion kit) measured 1 1/2". This load works for me.

45 ACP Lee 45-230-TC 5 gr Bullseye

Soft alloy (BHN 9-10), sized .452, BAC lube, 235 gr fully dressed, OAL; 1.199”, mixed cases, WLP primers, loaded on Dillon SDB. Oehler M35P with start screen at 10’ (2’ screen spacing). 65 degrees, 25% humidity. 10 shot tests.

Firearm Barrel Length FPS SD/ES PSI (M43)

Combat Cmdr 4 ¼” 849 12/38

Para 14 5” 891 6/18

Series 70 5 ½” 894 12/39

Contender 10” 976 13/46 16,700

M98 16 ¼” 1025 18/67



Uberti ER SAA 4 ¾” [ 6 3/8”] 866 10/30

M1917/25 6 3/8” [8 1/8”] 877 15/48

[Airman Basic]

Back in the 70s, maybe early 80s, I bought a Gold Cup. I was not overly careful back then so developed a load using data from different gun mags. Your 10 grains of Blue Dot and a 250 grain Keith SWC. I know, crazy. Didn't use many of them. Kicked too hard. But it was a deer killing dude, as far as I could shoot it. Must not have hurt the 1911 too much. Still have it.

[LAH]

Thanks Larry. I used that charge for years with the FMJ. It's a great load & used by the government I'm told.

[Loudenboomer]

I've got a 70 series gold cup with an early Clark comp left over from playing IPSC games in the 1980's. It has digested many thousand 5gr. bullseye loads. Most were the HG 68 200 gr. I used the same charge with the Lyman 225 gr. (My Alloy was 211 gr)

I did switch to Winchester Super Lite powder. It seemed to have the lowest felt recoil of any .45 powder I tried. It was discontinued about the time I quit playing the IPSC game.

[Plate plinker]

Bullseye for the 45ACP pick your own charge. Bullseye recipes abound for the 45ACP.

[milltownhunter]

I have used 9.0 gr of blue dot with cast and jacket 225 230 gr for year out of 5 colt gold cups and 2 officers I also use data In 5'' and 3'' s&w revolver very good groups under 1 1/2'' at 25 yards complete powder burn also works good with 147 gr 9mm have killed deer out to 95 yards with xtp 230 gr

[bigboredad]

A lot of assumptions in the answers due mostly to the limited info provided by the op. My feeling is if you want/need the power of that load for what ever and it's safe in your gun proceed on. A highly respected individual on this board has run that load for years with zero problems. He has just recently started downloading all his loads only because he turned 60. I have shot that load is not what I want but since when does what I want or anyone else on here have anything to do with your needs or wants.

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[bob208]

my 1911's and 1917 s &w wheel guns have been eating the lee 228 round nose with 6.2 gr. unique for years without a problem. I have about 1000 rounds loaded and in ammo cans.