Cap & Ball Revolver vs. Modern Handgun Qualification Course

[Hrfunk]

Hi all! Attached below is a link to my latest video. In this one, I'm standing the concept of the modern defensive handgun on its head as I take on the current Ohio Peace Officer's handgun qualification course with my Pietta/Remington New Army Cap&Ball revolver. To see how it goes, follow the link. Also, as always, be sure to let me know what you think after you watch the video!

HRF


https://youtu.be/wmKAVu14WW0

[bob208]

it confirms what I always said if a person is coming after you with a cap & ball pistol you are in trouble. your speed loader was a common answer for the need of more shots. some carried as many as six guns on horse back.

[Hrfunk]

it confirms what I always said if a person is coming after you with a cap & ball pistol you are in trouble. your speed loader was a common answer for the need of more shots. some carried as many as six guns on horse back.

Thank you!

HRF

[JoeJames]

Not surprised; though I did not use a cap and ball; back when we all used wheelguns, I always shot single action rather than double action for better accuracy when shooting for qualification with the local sheriff's office. And, I always had plenty of time.

[curator]

What was the distance between shooter and target?

[Hrfunk]

What was the distance between shooter and target?

It changes with each stage. If you watch the video, I mention the distance for the stage I'm firing.

HRF

[swheeler]

From 4 to 50 ft. Great video by the way! I do like your speed loader ;-)

[Markopolo]

I loved your creative thinking for speedloading... it would be nice to have twins.

[Hrfunk]

From 4 to 50 ft. Great video by the way! I do like your speed loader ;-)

Thank you!

HRF

[Hrfunk]

I loved your creative thinking for speedloading... it would be nice to have twins.


Maybe I'll have to get a "Lone Ranger" double-gun rig!

HRF

[Outpost75]

Some years ago I did the same thing firing a Ruger Old Army and carrying extra loaded cylinders in speed loader pouches and doing the Clint Eastwood "Pale Rider" reload. I also have the Kirst Kartridge Converter for my ROA and can interchangibly use either my cap & ball or the Kirst cartridge cylinder which works with either .455 Webley or .45 ACP. My revolver was accurized by the late Jerry Kieffer of Richmond, VA, has Hamilton Bowen "Rough Country" sights fitted, a custom base pin with oversized knob, knurled wingnut on the base pin release screw and a Webley-style lanyard loop in the butt. Extremely accurate and reliable field gun which has killed truckloads of deer in the last 25 years.

[Hrfunk]

Some years ago I did the same thing firing a Ruger Old Army and carrying extra loaded cylinders in speed loader pouches and doing the Clint Eastwood "Pale Rider" reload. I also have the Kirst Kartridge Converter for my ROA and can interchangibly use either my cap & ball or the Kirst cartridge cylinder which works with either .455 Webley or .45 ACP. My revolver was accurized by the late Jerry Kieffer of Richmond, VA, has Hamilton Bowen "Rough Country" sights fitted, a custom base pin with oversized knob, knurled wingnut on the base pin release screw and a Webley-style lanyard loop in the butt. Extremely accurate and reliable field gun which has killed truckloads of deer in the last 25 years.

I always kind of wanted an Old Army. Unfortunately, the lasty one I saw for sale a few months ago left me with sticker shock so bad I'm still shaking!

HRF

[Outpost75]

I always kind of wanted an Old Army. Unfortunately, the lasty one I saw for sale a few months ago left me with sticker shock so bad I'm still shaking!

HRF

Less than an Ed Brown M1911. You should get one.

If ever reduced to ONE handgun, ROA with Kirst Konverter and three cap & ball cylinders would be the one I keep. Knowing what they were proofed with at the factory, and having fitted one up there to measure pressures, I have a bit of flexibility in loading and am not dependent on black powder. The specifics are not for publication. Suffice to say 900 fps with Lee 250-grain R.E.A.L. and 4-6" six-shot 100-yard groups from Ransom rest is possible and equals full charge .45 Colt.

[Hrfunk]

Less than an Ed Brown M1911. You should get one.

If ever reduced to ONE handgun, ROA with Kirst Konverter and three cap & ball cylinders would be the one I keep. Knowing what they were proofed with at the factory, and having fitted one up there to measure pressures, I have a bit of flexibility in loading and am not dependent on black powder. The specifics are not for publication. Suffice to say 900 fps with Lee 250-grain R.E.A.L. and 4-6" six-shot 100-yard groups from Ransom rest is possible and equals full charge .45 Colt.

That is extremely cool!

HRF

[arcticap]

Hrfunk,
How many grains and of which powder were you shooting with?

If you were more familiar with your new Sheriff model, do you think that you would
be able to score as well as you did compared to the 8 inch version at all distances?

Its shorter sighting plane should help you to aim faster than the standard model
and perhaps even save you an extra second or two to deal with potential misfires.

I appreciated seeing the Sheriff model make its entrance and it seemed to shoot accurately. Both guns did.
And I wouldn't mind watching you repeat the course of fire with the Sheriff model someday.

Thanks a bunch for showing us how to have some fun with our own C&B revolvers.

[Hrfunk]

I was using 30 grains of FFFG under a .451" round ball. I had a "wonder wad" between the powder and the balls. As far as the Sheriff Model is concerned, I really like it so far, but at this point I have fired a grad total of six shots from it. I loaded it up for the video and fired 3 shots to verify it's functioning and point of impact, and the other three shots you saw me fire in the reloading stage. I'm going to do a full review on that model in the near future and I'll shoot it a lot more for that. Then I'll be able to give you a better evaluation of it. So stay tuned!

HRF

[Hickok]

Very good video, I enjoyed it!

[Butler Ford]

Good Shooting! I'd give you a "GO" on the speed loader.

[Hrfunk]

Thanks fellas! I appreciate it!

HRF

[waksupi]

Fun video, and good shooting. I'd like to see Jerry Michelek do the exercise!

[Hrfunk]

Fun video, and good shooting. I'd like to see Jerry Michelek do the exercise!

Now that would be something!

HRF

[arcticap]

Now that would be something!

HRF

Only if he was wearing a blindfold! LOL!

[Gray Fox]

I'd like to shoot that course with a pair of 1860 Armys worked over by our own .45 Dragoon, but then he does do '58s, too. Of course, it was only 20 years ago when I showed up at an NRA pistol and shotgun instructor course and was the only one shooting a revolver, a pair of 4" S&W 686s. Qualified first day, too. Of course I could actually see then. It would be fun to be able to talk one or two of the local LEA orgs to let some of us show up and shoot their courses of fire as long as we could use the New York reload as our speed loaders. It might actually inspire some of the Glock carriers to aim and squeeze a little better. Any way they'd allow it I bet it would be fun. GF

[Hrfunk]

I'd like to shoot that course with a pair of 1860 Armys worked over by our own .45 Dragoon, but then he does do '58s, too. Of course, it was only 20 years ago when I showed up at an NRA pistol and shotgun instructor course and was the only one shooting a revolver, a pair of 4" S&W 686s. Qualified first day, too. Of course I could actually see then. It would be fun to be able to talk one or two of the local LEA orgs to let some of us show up and shoot their courses of fire as long as we could use the New York reload as our speed loaders. It might actually inspire some of the Glock carriers to aim and squeeze a little better. Any way they'd allow it I bet it would be fun. GF

Anything that would inspire some of the youngsters to actually employ some marksmanship would be appreciated! One of my greater annoyances is the fact that police academies these days seem to churn out young officers who can fire off pistol shots at the cyclic rate of an M16, but whether or not they manage to hit anything is an "iffy" proposition. Presently, everything is about speed. Accuracy is a concept that seems to take too much time and effort to teach.

HRF

[Gray Fox]

Here in GA the private detectives and security officers used to have to qualify out to 25 yards in order to qualify/requalify with their handgun with a 70% pass score on the B21 target. This caused problems for the companies so they brow beat the state board into decreasing the distance to 15 yards and they still have problems. I have witnessed local sheriff's deputies trying to requalify for annual certification that could not keep all rounds on a B21 at 7 yards with a Glock. GF

[Drm50]

I never got the cap&ball bug. I had no interest in them unless they were originals, and then not to
shoot. I use to pick them up for practically nothing on trades back in 60s & 70s. My old man liked to
play with them so I gave them to him when I got one. He shot up a storm with them. When Ruger
Old Army came out I bought him one. From that point on that was his main shooter. The difference
was night and day for accuracy. Ruger Old Army is no doubt the best C&B revolver ever made, it was
just 100+ years to late in coming. The same can be said about Ruger Black Hawk series vs Colt SAs.
From the practical standpoint Rugers SAs are hard to beat. Although I don't buy the New Models with
transfer bar action, they are still the top SAs.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Good video.

I just stumbled on to your 1894 video a couple days ago. I'm a big 1894 fan and a big 357 fan.
I sent the video to my buddy and said "that's it I'm selling my AR!"

[Hrfunk]

Good video.

I just stumbled on to your 1894 video a couple days ago. I'm a big 1894 fan and a big 357 fan.
I sent the video to my buddy and said "that's it I'm selling my AR!"

Thank you, and thanks for watching!

HRF

[Gray Fox]

My wife and I actively participated cowboy action shooting (SASS life member) for about 10 years. We both shot well broken in Rossi .45 Colts, she a carbine and I a 24" octagon barreled rifle. We always said that if the Democrats ever found out how accurately and fast folks could shoot lever rifles with full power loads they would immediately try to ban them.

As a youth in AZ (many, many moons ago) most lawmen I knew had a lever carbine, usually a model '92 in .44-40, in their vehicle. It was enough then and I'm sure that it would be enough now, certainly in the average urban/suburban LEA situation. If you examine the stats for actual LEA long gun encounters almost all of them would easily be handled by a pistol caliber rifle, or a scoped .30-30 at the longest. One of the new Marlin stainless .357s with a Ranch Dog 175 grain RNFP over a healthy load of H110 would end most situations promptly. In good light an aperture sight would be fine. That's not what the LEA gun industry want publicized, of course. Why, you might even have to make a conscious thought between one shot and another. Heaven forbid! GF

[indian joe]

I'd like to shoot that course with a pair of 1860 Armys worked over by our own .45 Dragoon, but then he does do '58s, too. Of course, it was only 20 years ago when I showed up at an NRA pistol and shotgun instructor course and was the only one shooting a revolver, a pair of 4" S&W 686s. Qualified first day, too. Of course I could actually see then. It would be fun to be able to talk one or two of the local LEA orgs to let some of us show up and shoot their courses of fire as long as we could use the New York reload as our speed loaders. It might actually inspire some of the Glock carriers to aim and squeeze a little better. Any way they'd allow it I bet it would be fun. GF

Be careful what you wish for ! I understand cap and ball dont need rego or special permission in a lot of places . ?
Well we used to have that too. In the state of Victoria you could walk in any gunshop and buy one no questions asked - they were a replica firearm and considered harmless - this in a country where handguns have always been tightly regulated - all good until some showoff idiot at a muzzle loader shoot swaggered out with a pair of dragoon colts in holsters and proceeded to deliver all twelve into a tree stump - disintegrated the stump - the local press was there as witness - two weeks later the politicians had their legislation in place banning cap and ball replicas without a licence .
So you gonna do a u tube video qualifying a glock police course with a pair of tuned up cap guns ? I have heard of dumber ideas but I dont remember when.

[fivegunner]

Great shooting! nice video, thanks for posting. :Fire::Fire::Fire:

[Treetop]

Welcome to the forum, Brother! You're going to fit in nicely around here!
Semper Fi, Treetop

[Walkingwolf]

I carried a Colt pocket pistol replica as a teenager on the farm, it took a good number of rabbits, and squirels. For a while I carried a number of different cap, and ball revolvers EDC. I stopped because if used in SD they would be ruined sitting in a police evidence locker uncleaned. I too shot my K frame duty revolvers SA, not just on the range but on duty. There is no safety issue with proper discipline, IOW DO NOT cock until that point where deadly force is justified.

[RED BEAR]

remember you are only outgunned if you miss.

[Earlwb]

Nice video. I like it. But when I used to do police work, we had to fire 50 rounds, double action only to qualify. One stage even had you fire 18 rounds in a set time limit at multiple targets that rotated in and out after so many seconds. Thus a cap and ball revolver wouldn't have worked for their course, unless it was maybe a cap and ball Starr type of revolver.

[Hrfunk]

Great shooting! nice video, thanks for posting. :Fire::Fire::Fire:

You're welcome. Thanks for watching!

HRF

[Hrfunk]

Welcome to the forum, Brother! You're going to fit in nicely around here!
Semper Fi, Treetop


Thanks Treetop. Semper Fi!

HRF

[Hrfunk]

Nice video. I like it. But when I used to do police work, we had to fire 50 rounds, double action only to qualify. One stage even had you fire 18 rounds in a set time limit at multiple targets that rotated in and out after so many seconds. Thus a cap and ball revolver wouldn't have worked for their course, unless it was maybe a cap and ball Starr type of revolver.

The course here used to be much more challenging too. It was changed by the state several years ago, and this is what we have now. I'm not a big fan of it.

HRF