45 Colt bullet/powder help..?

[Blacky Montana]

Ok pards..
Ive spent the last year acquiring all my reloading equipment and building a reloading station. Ive got a Honady Lock N Load AP press, eith scales, trimmers, etc.. All the accessories Midway USA has to offer..lol. Im finally ready to actually start reloading. My first reloads will be for my Old Model Ruger Vaqueros in 45 Colt. Matched pair stainless with 5.5" barrel. I want to load a bulluet in the 300 to 350 gr weight. Gonna start with commercial bullets until i get the hang of reloading, then ill move to casting my own. Im considering Missouri Bullet Co cause they have quite a few choices in that bullet range. Im not looking for a Ruger Only or Plus P, i just want to throw heavy bullets. So my questions are, what is a good bullet, primer, powder to start with.

Thanks guys,
Blacky

[hc18flyer]

I think this is the link to the article in Handloader Mag written about the 45-270 saa bullet? It shows 3 different pressure levels for .45 Colt revolvers. This swc throws at 280+ grains from my alloy and has been acurate in my Blackhawk. I plan to deer hunt with it this Fall using a soft alloy, plain base aluminum check at about 1100 fps. I use CCI primers, Starline cases, and several powders for plinkers. hc18flyer
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

[DougGuy]

You won't get enough spin for those heavies at standard pressure to stabilize them. You barely get enough at Ruger Only pressure.

Second thing.. Beware of the commercial cast boolits, many of them are BHN22 which is not really a good choice, you would likely do much better with a softer alloy and also soft lube. Personally I use some of the 250gr LBT WFN boolits from Montana Bullet Works and I get them in their softer alloy with Veral's soft blue lube. They are a better choice in the Ruger rifling than a BHN22 would be.

Next, see if you can push your boolits through the cylinder throats from the front. Those original Vaqueros suffer from the same tight/undersize cylinder throat syndrome that millions of other Rugers suffer from, and if you fire a .452" boolit through them, all they do is downsize your boolits to throat diameter, and with a hard alloy and hard lube like commercial cast boolits, you may be creating a recipe for a heavily leaded bore and groups that look like you fired them with a shotgun.

You are at a great place to hone your skills, let's see if we can eliminate the obvious at the beginning and get started off right shall we?

[Outpost75]

I use the Accurate 45-290H in my Ruger .45 Vaquero and a cowboy rifle, for long range shooting with 7 grains of Bullseye. Velocity is about 900 fps from a 7-1/2" revolver, 830 fps from a 5-1/2" and 1030 fps from a 20" carbine.

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The 45-290H bullet over 7 gr Bullseye comes into its own as velocity increases which improves its stability. Looking at Larry Gibson's velocity (M35P and the M43) and psi measurements above they are very uniform for the 1st 8 shots. Then for whatever reason the bottom fell out on the last 2 shots. Both the velocity and psi for both shots was low. Those two shots also are the low two hits in that otherwise excellent group. While the MAP is listed at 17,400 psi(M43) it includes the 2 low shots. If we look at the first 8 shots the MAP is actually closer to 18,200 psi(M43).

This load is very good for long range use in revolvers as their impact was up to 16” higher than factory loads and in my Blackhawk with the rear sight bottomed out they were impacting 11 – 12” high at 25 yards.

[Blacky Montana]

Just for more info, if i have to push the heavier bullets faster that is fine as well. Im not recoil sensitive which is why my do everything rifle is a 45-70...lol. However, i would like to push a bullet in the 300 gr range anyway. I do know im in the perfect place with you guys for all the knowlege i need. My next question after bullet n powder was gonna be at what velocity to i need my bullets to be gas check..

[mdi]

Have you done your reading? The ABCs of Reloading is a good start. Do you have reloading manuals? When starting to reload a new to me cartridge, I start with "classic" loads. In the 45 Colt I began with a Lyman 255 gr. SWC, and a Lyman 250 gr RNFP, cast a bit soft (10-14 BHN) with a medium fast powder. There are tons of successful loads using these bullets out there and load data can be found quite easily (find a load in your reloading manual(s) before you buy any components!). Learn to reload, get some basic reloading under your belt before you start "pushing the envelope" with extra heavy for caliber bullets. A Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is probably the best source for lead bullet load data.When purchasing lead bullets make sure they fit your gun; the proper diameter for the cylinder throats.

When starting to reload, develop your safety skills first, right from the start and make them a habit. After 30+ years of reloading I still look in every case I charge with powder and have only the components I'm using for the particular load on my bench at one time. Resist the urge to use any load data from any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, well meaning fiend, or gun shop guru. Get your load data from a published reloading manual(s). Powder manufacturers have load data on their web sites, but I like to be able to compare page to page without taking my lap top to my shop (and it's much easier for me). I also occasionally scan through my reloading manuals while in my easy chair, studying loads...

Go slow. Double check everything. Most important, have fun...

[Blacky Montana]

I do have the books and manuals. I also am going to have a local gunsmith slug all three of my 45 Colts cylinders and barrels. Yes i have watched videos on how to do the slugging myself, but im going to have someone experienced do it for me anyway..

[Blacky Montana]

DougGuy.. I went to Montana and checked out the 250 gr bullet. They are actually whose heavy bullets i was looking at and not Missouri. Anyway, without having my barrels & cylinders slugged, should I go ahead and order my first box, if so what size. You suggest pushing a bullet through the barrel, so i need a bullet to do so...lol. If that is the bullet i start with what powder should i get to go with it.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Unique is hard to beat in .45c. I don’t remember what DougGuy said, but he probably said to push the bullet through your cylinder throats. That is how I used to check my throat sizes before I got a set of pin gauges. You have recieved some great information from some very experienced guys. What you do with this information is up to you.

[Blacky Montana]

I have received good info, which is exactly why i am here. Im leaning on all the experiece you guys have here, and your guidence is much appreciated.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I have received good info, which is exactly why i am here. Im leaning on all the experiece you guys have here, and your guidence is much appreciated.

And we all wish you the best. If any questions pop up, and they will, we will all be here for you.

[fredj338]

You can stabilize a 300gr 45colt at a lazy 850fps. Not sure about 340gr. IMO though, nothing really gained by a bullet over 300gr in 45 colt. I run the RCBS 270SAA, which casts about 285gr in range scrap. Run it at 950fps, not much in NA is stopping that bullet. For that vel window I like 2400 & std primer.
Check your cyl throats. My Ruger BH had tight 0.450" throats & was not at it's best with cast bullets until I opened them to 0.4515".

[Potsy]

270SAA falls out of my mold (it's a MiHec brass) at 286 grains. 9.0 grains of Unique or Universal at 1000fps should lengthwise most things on 2 or 4 legs and not beat you to death in the process.
Just because you can, and will, load hotter; 25.0grn 296/H110 with mag primers shoots very well at 1300-1350fps.

Go ahead and send your cylinder off to get the throats reamed (I sent mine to Cylindersmith a few years ago, but everyone REALLY brags up DougGuy's work around here). I'd bet a cool beverage that your throats are around .449. .4525 with a .452 bullet is where you wanna be. Reason being is that you're swaging a bullet down to .449 or so and then expecting it to bump back up when it hits the forcing cone/rifling. The issue is exacerbated by hard alloy bullets and low pressures, which means that there's not enough pressure to bump the hard bullets back up, sending your now undersized bullets rattling down the barrel.
A correctly dimensioned gun with the appropriate alloy for the pressure level will cure headaches and amaze you all at the same time......

[DougGuy]

DougGuy.. I went to Montana and checked out the 250 gr bullet. They are actually whose heavy bullets i was looking at and not Missouri. Anyway, without having my barrels & cylinders slugged, should I go ahead and order my first box, if so what size. You suggest pushing a bullet through the barrel, so i need a bullet to do so...lol. If that is the bullet i start with what powder should i get to go with it.

In my experience, I have seen absolutely none of the Vaqueros come from the factory with sufficient enough throat diameters to shoot cast boolits. They are notoriously tight. Some are .450" the majority of these are .4505" ~ .451" which all that will do is make the cylinder into a 6 port sizing die every time you shoot the gun. There are many here on the forum that will concur with those measurements for factory cylinders.

You can save yourself the trip to the gunsmith, and send cylinders here. I can measure them with pin gages and I can also hone them to .4525" and you use .452" boolits. You would probably need to do this anyway, .451" is just a tad too close to groove diameter to work really well, .452" would work better. 99% of those who use 45 caliber arms, be it revolver or autoloader, size to .452" send a PM for details if you choose to go this route.

In a perfect world, to set up a revolver for use with cast boolits the *proper* way, the boolit would be .001" to .002" greater than groove diameter, the cylinder throats would be .0005" to .001" greater than boolit diameter. This works well regardless of caliber or make of gun. The key, is to have a snug boolit to throat fit so the throat squares the boolit on center and holds it in good alignment while it travels toward the forcing cone.

The single most important part of the cylinder, is how even the throat diameters are. Everything else is secondary as long as the boolit chambers. Ruger cylinders are fairly inconsistent due to their manufacturing processes, in the time original vaqueros were made they reamed cylinders on a Hitachi machine with 3 cutters, gang ream 3 throats, index the cylinder one hole and gang ream the remaining 3. As these cutters wore, they would cut smaller and smaller throats, and when Ruger replaced them, they often only replaced the worst one, leaving the other two in service until they wore down too far to use. So it was very common to see a cylinder cut with 3 different sized reamers, and you have 3 pairs of throats, all different in size from one another.

It is impossible to size to uneven throats. Once throats are "dimensionally corrected" everything improves greatly.

The BHN12 boolits from Montana Bullet Works with Veral's soft blue lube are great performers, I personally like their WFN designs as these don't have a driving band on the front, the sides of the boolit are actually more parallel to the angles in the forcing cone so you don't get as much distortion on the front of the boolit as it enters the bore.

Check out LBT 250gr WFN-PB, LBT 250gr WFN-GC which you can use any load data for, in standard pressures powders like Unique, HS-6, Herco, 700x, are the ones I have used over the years, for +P loads that are not quite 100% of the "Ruger Only" loads look to 2400, AA#9, LilGun. For max loads in the "Ruger Only" power band, I use H110, Lilgun, 2400, AA#9. A great starting place with these WFN boolits would be 9.0gr Unique.

A word of caution here, actually two, first I do not load Unique to beyond 9.5gr in 45 Colt, at 10.0gr Unique can become spiky and unpredictable, and it's not the best choice of powders for heavy for caliber boolits either. Second, DO heed the warnings against downloading H110 (W296, same powder) below the published starting charge weights.

I like WLP primers, they are between standard and magnum in brisance and work well.

A standard roll crimp applied with your seating die works good for all but the hottest loads. For heavy weight, 300gr and above, max loads, I like a collet crimp and modify my collet dies to improve them, here is a thread detailing my tweaking of such dies: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

[Moonie]

Listen to DougGuy, he knows his stuff with the Ruger Single Actions and his service is VERY reasonably priced.