Need 45 Colt new pistol opinion..

[Blacky Montana]

Hey guys.. Need your opinions. Here is the deal. I love the 45 Colt and already own four, and im looking to buy another. This time i want to add another single action that will handle hot or plus P loads. I also want a 4 3/4" barrel version with adjustable sights. Ruger has the New Blackhawk with that exact set up, but I dont think it will handle hot loads. Now i can get a sweet deal on the new Bisley Super Blackhawk in 454 Casull, which is same setup, which will definitely handle hot 45 Colt. But that comes in at 48 oz vs 36 oz for the NBH in 45. My final adding point is i carry a 45C everyday as a EDC. Should I just go with the New Model Blackhawk, or just get use to the weight of the 454 Casull..

Thanks guys..

[Wheelguns 1961]

The new model blackhawk will handle loads up to approx 30,000. That is a very hot .45c. I don’t own a .454 casull, but I think the saami max pressure is somewhere around 60,000. I own and shoot a new model blackhawk in .45c, and don’t shoot hot loads anymore. Standard pressure loads will do anything I need it to do. If you live in the Alaskan bush or anywhere a grizzlie encounter is a possibility, then go for the .454. Welcome to the forum.

[Blacky Montana]

I have no real need for a 454, just knew it could handle any 45 Colt on earth..lol. I probably should have mentioned the New Blackhawk im considering in Lipsey's Flattop Blackhawk. It is the smaller 357 mag type frame, which is why I dont think it will handle strong 45 Colt. Someone please correct me if im wrong, cause thats actually what i prefer getting..

[jmort]

The regular Blackhawk will take Ruger Only loads. The gun you are considering will not.
Why not get a "regular" Blackhawk???
Buffalo Bore downloads their .454 loads as they had bullets jumping crimp at full pressure. That is more gun than I want.
A full on Ruger Only .45 Colt load has unlimited potential out in the woods, or anywhere for that matter.

[Blacky Montana]

I havent seen a regular Blackhawk listed in 45 Colt with the 4 3/4 barrel... Thats how i ended up with the Flattop special edition.

[Blacky Montana]

I correct myself.. They do have a regular 45C Blackhawk in 4 3/4"... But i was trying to find one without the butt ugly black plastic grips..lol

[Blacky Montana]

Plus the Flattop is a conversion, so i can also shoot 45 ACP.. Which is my 2nd favorite carry gun..lol

[DougGuy]

You can change out the cheese grater grips. Here's the deal...

A TWO DIGIT prefix in the serial number is a large framed gun, BH or Vaquero, doesn't matter, it can handle 30,000psi "Ruger Only" loads. A THREE DIGIT prefix is the medium framed gun and it is safe to 23,000psi which is the same as 45 ACP+P pressures.

It is NOT RECOMMENDED to take the THREE DIGIT prefix revolver to 30,000psi even though it probably won't destroy the gun.

There are loads published in the "Tier Two" pressure range for the medium frame, 3 digit prefix Rugers. Buffalo Bore loads ammo specifically for these guns that is safe, but quite stout.

Also, the ratchet star on the back of the cylinder is different. The full size Vaquero, Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, TWO DIGIT prefix gun has a round ratchet star boss.

The medium framed New Model Blackhawk Flattop, New Model Vaquero , THREE DIGIT prefix gun has a "scalloped" ratchet star boss on the back of the cylinder. This is yet another way to tell the two different size guns apart. See Photo.. Large frame cylinder on the left, medium frame cylinder on the right:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/Cylinders-Lg-Med_zpsoaou4f6e.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/Cylinders-Lg-Med_zpsoaou4f6e.jpg.html)

I have a medium framed New Model Vaquero in 45 Schofield caliber that will launch a 250gr LBT WFN boolit to 1200fps over 21.5gr H110 that is just under the gun's 23,000psi pressure ceiling. It s accurate, not too sharp in recoil, snappy but not punishing at all, but I doubt I would ever recover one of those slugs in a deer. This is a really enjoyable gun to shoot, cheese grater grips and all..

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Blued%20NM%20Vaquero/DSC04976%20Custom_zpsr686bkvr.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Blued%20NM%20Vaquero/DSC04976%20Custom_zpsr686bkvr.jpg.html)

[Wheelguns 1961]

That is interesting Doug Guy. The reason for the schofield case is so you can download the charge without changing the airspace? Good ingenuity! I never could figure why anybody would use the schofield cases in a colt.

[Blacky Montana]

Ok..so i went with regular New Blackhawk, who makes grips that WILL NOT need fitting..lol. I truly love all my 45 Colts. Have two original Vaqueros stainless, 5.5 barrel, genuine custom black buffalo horn grips, Uberti Cattleman, and Uberti 1873 Winchester. I just want to add another SA with adjustable sights.

[jmort]

You probably know this, but the Old Vaqueros aka original Vaqueros are strong enough for Ruger only loads. I don't mind the stock grips, but all my single actions get Gunfighter style grips. I have a few Blackhawks.

[Walks]

The reason for the .45 Smith & Wesson case was the original Smith & Wesson #3 with the Schofield latch had a cylinder that was TOO SHORT to accept the STANDARD .45 Cartridge that was designed for the COLT SAA Revolver.

It had nothing to do with a shorter case for lighter more efficient loads.

Starline brought out the brass when UBERTI introduced the S&W #3 Replica. It was initially rumored that the #3 replica was to be an EXACT replica, so a shorter case would be needed. Even though the Replica was built with a long enough frame/cylinder to accept the .45COLT & .44WCF Cartridges.

That stupid .45 cowboy case was designed to be short, so gamers could still shoot large calibers with very little powder in a safe fashion.


My 40yr old NM .45COLT Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" bbl SHOT THOUSANDS of Hot loads until I bought a CASULL several years later.

I tried one of my hot loads as the 1st round out of my Little NEW VAQUERO. That was enough, I immediately made a new set of WALNUT GRIPS of the PROPER THICKNESS. I WILL NEVER FIRE ANOTHER HOT LOAD IN that little Vaquero again. They're not built for it.

[Blacky Montana]

Yes... I am aware that my original Vaqueros can handle Ruger Only loads. I have shot Grizzly & Garret rounds through them. I have now bought everything i need to reload my own, and plan on casting as well this winter. Im just after the shorter barrel with adjustable sights. Not that I plan on shooting mostly hot loads, but i do want the ability to have fun with some stout stuff as well. I plan on loading & casting for my 45 Colts and my 45-70 as well. May add others later, but those are my two favorite cartridges.

[DougGuy]

That is interesting Doug Guy. The reason for the schofield case is so you can download the charge without changing the airspace? Good ingenuity! I never could figure why anybody would use the schofield cases in a colt.


It had nothing to do with a shorter case for lighter more efficient loads.

The reason I chose the 45 S&W was because Ruger gave us one of the finest fit and finished TIER TWO platforms that they have ever made, these medium framed guns are some of their very best, but there really weren't any PROPER tier 2 load data to match the 23,000psi pressure ceiling these fine guns are designed with. There really is no +P loads for 45 Colt, it's either standard or Ruger Only, there is a conspicuous absence of mid-level loads.

I figured, why download the 45 Colt case, when I could use a shorter smaller case and keep load density higher, I could ream a 45 ACP cylinder to 45 Schofield and have the boolits sitting in the throats like it SHOULD be, which the throat being .0005" over boolit diameter holds the chambered round centered on the throat and not let it lay on it's side and bounce around in there like a 38 SPL in a 357 cylinder, and so far it has worked out pretty good, I have used QuickLoad to develop the +P loads using Schofield brass and it is taking the Tier 2 power level and applying it right to the gun like it ought to be. This way I can have more flexibility in choice of boolits than 45 ACP, I can have my choice of crimp, and I have more headroom in seating the boolit and not confined into using the 45 ACP brass as the parent case which is very limiting.

The only fly in the ointment? Osammy's EO from 7-22-2016 making conversions like this one from simple gunsmithing into "manufacturing" but I beat him to the punch and completed this one before the EO was issued. Until the EO is rescinded by Trump or his successor, I cannot do even simple caliber conversions.

However, I didn't want to "steer" the thread, I was merely citing this project as something that could take the medium framed vaquero and flattop blackhawk fully into their designed pressure limit. The flattop 44 special is another one that can be loaded right up to the back door of the 44 magnum. Both of these mid length cartridges cases are great for hunting North American game when loaded to 1200fps with WFN boolits in the 240gr and 250gr weights, and still stay safely within the pressure ceiling of 23,000psi for the 45, and 25,000psi for the 44 Special.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Thanks for the thorough explaation. It is a very good idea. I hope you get to run with it one day.

[sac]

The reason I chose the 45 S&W was because Ruger gave us one of the finest fit and finished TIER TWO platforms that they have ever made, these medium framed guns are some of their very best, but there really weren't any PROPER tier 2 load data to match the 23,000psi pressure ceiling these fine guns are designed with. There really is no +P loads for 45 Colt, it's either standard or Ruger Only, there is a conspicuous absence of mid-level loads.

I figured, why download the 45 Colt case, when I could use a shorter smaller case and keep load density higher, I could ream a 45 ACP cylinder to 45 Schofield and have the boolits sitting in the throats like it SHOULD be, which the throat being .0005" over boolit diameter holds the chambered round centered on the throat and not let it lay on it's side and bounce around in there like a 38 SPL in a 357 cylinder, and so far it has worked out pretty good, I have used QuickLoad to develop the +P loads using Schofield brass and it is taking the Tier 2 power level and applying it right to the gun like it ought to be. This way I can have more flexibility in choice of boolits than 45 ACP, I can have my choice of crimp, and I have more headroom in seating the boolit and not confined into using the 45 ACP brass as the parent case which is very limiting.

The only fly in the ointment? Osammy's EO from 7-22-2016 making conversions like this one from simple gunsmithing into "manufacturing" but I beat him to the punch and completed this one before the EO was issued. Until the EO is rescinded by Trump or his successor, I cannot do even simple caliber conversions.

However, I didn't want to "steer" the thread, I was merely citing this project as something that could take the medium framed vaquero and flattop blackhawk fully into their designed pressure limit. The flattop 44 special is another one that can be loaded right up to the back door of the 44 magnum. Both of these mid length cartridges cases are great for hunting North American game when loaded to 1200fps with WFN boolits in the 240gr and 250gr weights, and still stay safely within the pressure ceiling of 23,000psi for the 45, and 25,000psi for the 44 Special.

Have you heard anything about Trump doing away with it?

[bob208]

I said it before and I will say it again if you want a magnum or magnum perforce by a magnum. don't keep over loading a standard gun.

back in the day they were killing griz. with bp .45 colt loads till something hotter came along in the mid 30's and that was the .357 magnum. then in the mid 50's the .44 magnum.

[Potsy]

I wish someone would educate me on the exact meaning of "Magnum". As it applies to firearm cartridges, not wine or T.V. Shows.

Does it refer to case capacity (that would make a .45 Colt a Magnum, at least vs. a .44.)?
Does it refer to the firearm's ability to handle a certain pressure level (which would be roughly 30-32KPSI for a .45 Colt in a full sized Blackhawk.)?
Does it simply refer to heastamp designation (how many cases do I have to order before Starline will custom stamp ".45Colt Mag." for me?)?
Is it a load warmer than a factory load (what about Buffalo Bore?)?

I've been monkeying with a .45 Colt for 18 years. Everybody keeps saying don't make a "Magnum" out of it. Fine. Now tell me what a "Magnum" is.

Maybe a Magnum is like the difference between "art" and "pornography". You can't really define it, but you know it when you see it.

[cas]

I wish someone would educate me on the exact meaning of "Magnum". As it applies to firearm cartridges, not wine or T.V. Shows.

It was a marketing ploy from the 1930's. Referring to large champagne bottles was supposedly the source.