WOOOW! the 300 Ham'r !!!

[nekshot]

I am excited about this baby! When my son led me into ar's I simply judged every cartridge to the 30-30. I really liked the AR's but to me it was a hunting rifle that I wanted and I could morally(considering my abilities) dispatch a animal at 300 yds and buy the cartridges in a store. I have enough wildcats for one life. I would love to see the gun rags ram this this cartridge down our throats as they did the 6.5 almost moore cartridge. This one to me has legit merit to be a very good round for the AR platform. Maybe I am too old school to be impressed but this one impresses me!

[nekshot]

Pacific makes a reamer at 200 some bucks. If some one bought one I would rent it to chamber a barrel. If we took good care of it that could get alot of BO in the game (considering the twist). Wilson has the right twist in his barrel for sale but I cannot swing the price. But I do have some 12" twist barrels!

[303Guy]

Here's a link;
https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2018/8/21/review-wilson-combat-300-ham-r-cartridge/

125gr bullet @ 2561 fps from an 18" barrel.

[Grmps]

So how is this different than the 300 AAC BO and how does it compare to the 224 Valkyrie?

Just curious. :)

[303Guy]

The 300 HAM'R drives a 150 gr bullet faster than the 300 AAC BO drives a 132 gr bullet by some 150 fps which translates to 33% more muzzle energy. It has more muzzle energy than the Valkyrie which drives a 80 gr bullet to 2886 fps. The HAM'R has the same case capacity as the 223 Remington. The Valkyrie has 10% more case capacity than the HAM'R.

That HAM'R looks like the way to go for the AR platform in 30 cal. The 6.8 SPC is still ballistically superior though but with a lighter bullet.

[Hamish]

Left to right: TAC30 (30Herrett AR (6.8 brass and 30 Herrett dies)), 300 Ham'r (7.62x41), 300 BLK

228204

Tac30 will do 2800 with 125's, Ham'r is 300 slower.

Looking at the 30 Herrett AR for jacketed, I personally don't need more than the BLK for shooting cast.

[Jniedbalski]

Looks like a cool round. But the 7.62x39 is so close with the same bullet weight.

[lefty o]

i dont normally jump on new cartridges, but this one got me. i ordered barrel, dies etc a month ago. probably be a while before i get a load worked up for it. here's the deal, if you want to shoot suppressed the blackout is the way to go. if you want basically a 30-30 in an ar that uses standard everything for parts, the hamr gets the nod. easy to find brass for converting ( no ones leaves tons of 7.62x39 boxer brass laying around), and it beats the 7.62x39 by a good enough margin that its not overlapping it, plus better bullet availability and choices for jacketed. im not selling it, or telling anyone else their reasons are right or wrong, just my take on it.

[Texas by God]

Is it a .30-.222? Does it fit in unaltered mags? Will it push a 150 gr 2000fps? I love my .300 BO but a bit closer to the holy 30-30 is very interesting.

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[lefty o]

its a 30-223. ideally run from a 300bo specific mag, and yes it is supposed to meet or exceed the 30-30.

[nekshot]

My interest is to take a 130 gr and get 2700 fps. I can do this with one of my 30-30's (don't ask me how but it is with a vz24). That is nice 300 yard territory for me. I have a 300 BO and that is great for going slow, but this would give me a great jacket bullet performer and also with the twist let me play with lighter cast bullets which I do enjoy. For me it is a simple fix to reach 300 yards with a 30 caliber and hopefully successful so I can buy it off store shelves if so inclined.

[nun2kute]

First off, "What you hear here, is the opinion of the speaker only !" But to me it seems like Bill is spinning his wheels. I'm still doing my research, but I don't see what 1mm of brass ((from 7.62X40 WT)to 300Ham'r(7.62X41)) is going to make a difference to justify all the hype. Can a twist rate change make such a significant increase in velocity to make a difference ? Or is 7.62X40 WT just not sounding as COOL as 300 HAM'R ? I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade, and I'm not a number cruncher, so somebody may have to explain this to me with crayons so I can understand. I just don't see the difference.

[Texas by God]

Bravo Nun2. Popcorn:-)
Show me how either cartridge outperforms the 30/30 Winchester.

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[Hamish]

its a 30-223. ideally run from a 300bo specific mag, and yes it is supposed to meet or exceed the 30-30.

For the sake of clarity, it is NOT a 30-.223. It is a 7.62x 41. A "30-.223" would be 7.62x45. The cartridge of earliest origin by that configuration that I know of is the 30 Apache, a true 30-.223 made by simply necking out the brass to .30.

The 30 TCU (Thompson Center Ugalde) appeared on the scene in roughly the same period, done by the same guy that came up with the 6,6.5, and 7 TCU cartridges. I never have understood why the "Apache" stuck but the "TCU" did not, given the popularity of the smaller cartridges.

[RU shooter]

Bravo Nun2. Popcorn:-)
Show me how either cartridge outperforms the 30/30 Winchester.

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It can't. 150 gr Vel in the article is only 2240 fps . Still sounds like a decent cast bullet slinger with the 15 twist barrel on it though ,long as you pick one with a noseonthe shorter side the Lee 155 be just about right

[nekshot]

From what little bit I have playing with the 30-30 and similar and smaller cases, it is a head scratcher why one cartridge will do x fps and changing the twist or a wee bit less taper or such and presto you get 200 to 300 more fps. I totally believe in this cartridge because I spent a fair amount of time wondering why nobody used all of the 223 or used my old favorite "222mag" cartridge. Also why somebody did not take the x39 and use the 220 swift and have a little more length(better feeding) and less taper(much more powder).I do prefer a factory cartridge at my age over another wildcat. The kids are having enough to learn with out all of my concocted stuff. I read a article in a magazine and they totally missed Bills reason for this venture. Makes you wander if these writers are that stupid or dancing to the one who pays their bills?

[Hamish]

"dancing to the one who pays their bills?"

Yup.

[funnyjim014]

So....is this just a newer version of the 7.62x45 used in the vz52?...why not just use the same dimensions and give cool name so i can finaly shoot my rifle lol

[BD]

For a hunting rifle, if I'm shooting something in the 2,200 fps range, I'll take the 250 gr FTX over a 150 grain 30 cal any day. 450B.

[Earlwb]

I am not enthused by it. I would rather want a .30 Rem AR instead, which gives you .308 Win performance in a AR-15 size rifle.

[Texas by God]

The AR15 class of cartridges grows by increments daily but they've already bumped the ceiling- magazine length. They all are "almost" something else...still not a 22-250, still not a 30-30, still not a 6.5 Japanese, 45-70 etc.
Ain't it fun?
I want a 6.5 Grendel next- I have no idea why!

[LynC2]

First off, "What you hear here, is the opinion of the speaker only !" But to me it seems like Bill is spinning his wheels. I'm still doing my research, but I don't see what 1mm of brass ((from 7.62X40 WT)to 300Ham'r(7.62X41)) is going to make a difference to justify all the hype. Can a twist rate change make such a significant increase in velocity to make a difference ? Or is 7.62X40 WT just not sounding as COOL as 300 HAM'R ? I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade, and I'm not a number cruncher, so somebody may have to explain this to me with crayons so I can understand. I just don't see the difference.

I'm in agreement, I think it is a marketing ploy as 1mm more of case over the 7.62x40WT isn't really much. BTW, I own a 7.62x40 and it is a fun little round to shoot using cast. I even chambered a barrel in it for my CPA using reformed .357 Max. brass in order to have a rim for extraction.

[Moleman-]

How does the 300 HAM'R compare to the 30 BRX or Dasher?

[popper]

1mm more of case over the 7.62x40WT isn't really much. yes, don't see any difference. i push 145gr PB to almost 2200 & MOA, not quite 30/30 but I have 3/30 & 308W anyway.

[ulav8r]

30 RAR is a little more but probably would not feed from 223 magazines. Have never seen one, but liked the idea of the RAR. Too many say a cartridge that almost equals the 30/30 is sure to replace the 30/30. In my opinion a cartridge needs to push a .308-150 grain bullet at least 2400 fps to better the 30/30. Almost is not enough.

[dverna]

Seeing as I have a few .30/30’s, if I want that level of performance, I will use them. The FTX bullets allow the old .30/30 to perform better at longer ranges for hunting. And if typical cast bullets are going to be used in a .30 cal AR, it offers nothing over the .30/30....but I may be missing something.

I doubt 100 fps one way or the other is a game changer.

[Tackleberry41]

Seems every day is another AR ammo we just have to rush out and buy. How many of them will we still be able to buy in a year or 2?

[dragon813gt]

Seems every day is another AR ammo we just have to rush out and buy. How many of them will we still be able to buy in a year or 2?

You can’t buy the large majority of them now. If you don’t reload then you can’t shoot it. There’s only one I’m interested in, 358 Yeti. And even though I’m on their mailing list I never receive an email when they have barrels in stock. They never have them in stock. Same for the 357 AR and most of their other offerings. Availability of parts/ammo is a problem when it’s new let alone a few years down the line.

[lefty o]

as reloaders, new cartridges like the 300ham'r , 277wolverine, etc (actually a whole slew of others) that were created off the .223/5.56 casing should pose no problems. as long as the parent brass is available, make it yourself. if a new cartridge doesnt give you a warm fuzzy, dont buy one. wait a few minutes and another new one will be along.

[Tackleberry41]

I dont think its as simple as can be made from 5.56. Most do not reload, so unless you can readily buy the ammo and rifles it won't last long. If ammo is murder to get, people wont buy the rifles, nor will shops stock them. They will wait for the demand that may never materialize. Gun owners sitting back waiting for shops to have stuff to buy. And 2 years from now, 300hamr is some exotic reload only kind of thing. Its sold as basically a 30-30, yea and, guarantee most of us already have a 30-30 that kills hogs fine. And the Hamr is not a subsonic thing, where 300BO goes both ways and is way easier to buy.

This is wilson combat now, they will want to keep the barrels as a proprietary thing, which will restrict supply. Plus they will not be cheap, further depressing demand. How long will remington support an ammo they cant move? How many of their own ammos have they dumped after a few years?

[lefty o]

I dont think its as simple as can be made from 5.56. Most do not reload, so unless you can readily buy the ammo and rifles it won't last long. If ammo is murder to get, people wont buy the rifles, nor will shops stock them. They will wait for the demand that may never materialize. Gun owners sitting back waiting for shops to have stuff to buy. And 2 years from now, 300hamr is some exotic reload only kind of thing. Its sold as basically a 30-30, yea and, guarantee most of us already have a 30-30 that kills hogs fine. And the Hamr is not a subsonic thing, where 300BO goes both ways and is way easier to buy.

This is wilson combat now, they will want to keep the barrels as a proprietary thing, which will restrict supply. Plus they will not be cheap, further depressing demand. How long will remington support an ammo they cant move? How many of their own ammos have they dumped after a few years?

it is as simple as it can be made from .223, ive got a pile here ive been making. if i wasnt a handloader, i wouldnt touch it with a 10' pole.

[colonelhogan44]

Instead of this, just go with the 357AR designed by moleman! That cartridge is not "almost" anything. If I'm not mistaken, it's the biggest, hardest hitting round that can be put in a standard AR without any mods to the bolt. There's no way to neck up to anything larger!

Plus your 357 mag dies can load it like a straight walled pistol case. I've always dreamed of a 30 carbine rifle, and I love 357 Magnum, and this is essentially their love child. I can't wait to actually get some loaded up and tested.

[popper]

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/shop/whats-new/clearance/varmint-barrel-20-1-10-7-62x40-wt.html
They are around. Or rent a reamer for BO barrel. Run a BO reamer ~ 0.2 deeper if you want the BO throat. No reason it won't shoot subs.

[lefty o]

just think, without all the new choices. we'd be driving model T fords, shooting flintlock rifles or worse, and no one would have anything to biatch about! LOL

[RU shooter]

Well I do shoot a flintlock and I would drive a model T if I had the chance . Lol

[lefty o]

Well I do shoot a flintlock and I would drive a model T if I had the chance . Lol

you are not the only one, but most seem to forget they can have mutiple choices. anybody wants to see the anal retentive crowd try and cut down something they them selves dont care for only have to go up a few sections and find the creedmore thread. i like having more choices available, but just because someone comes out with something new doesnt mean i have to have one. life would truly be boring if we all listened to the it doesnt do this, or that crowd.

[lefty o]

I don't know, no real point. .308 simply outclasses it in all categories.

Besides, if we DO need a new .30 caliber catridge with a small case capacity, why don't we simply take a 22 hornet, and straight wall it. And then I can have a case I KNOW would be perfectly fine for running with 80-120 grain pistol bullets at 1,000 fps


make it, and see if people like it. my guess is like every new cartridge you would get 1000 negative comments of how it sucks, to every one that likes it.

[Smoke4320]

differences are the spice of life.. get what YOU like and don't worry about others opinions of what YOU like

[lefty o]

differences are the spice of life.. get what YOU like and don't worry about others opinions of what YOU like

amen.

[Tackleberry41]

I said something at the local gunshop today about the 300hamr, never even heard of it. So not like they are going to stock it.

[Texas by God]

Nothing against the 357AR but doesn't the .50 Beowulf use a standard bolt? I thought it was the biggest baddest AR15 round.

[colonelhogan44]

Nothing against the 357AR but doesn't the .50 Beowulf use a standard bolt? I thought it was the biggest baddest AR15 round.

But don't you at least have to open up the ejection port? The bolt face recess is also .136 inches vs the standard .125.

[Lloyd Smale]

I would love to see a factory 30 that is simply a 223 necked to 30. Id buy one in a heart beat. Had a 762x39 which ballisticly is pretty close but it didn't feed for **** in an AR. 223 brass is cheap and I don't want to cut it fire form it ect. Just open it up and load it and no separate magazines or altered magazines. Yes I know the BO brass can be bought now but I have 10s of thousands of 556 brass already and don't want to buy more brass or process it. All I want is a good 200 yard max deer gun on an ar. Hate to ruffle feathers but I think the bo comes up a bit short for that purpose. Maybe a 100 but bottom line is your getting 30 carbine ballistics out of a bo that that's pretty borderline whitetail medicine.

[Loudy13]

Well I now think I need a 300 HAM'R, yeah its close to many other calibers from what I am reading here but I reload and haven't ever been a big fan of mainstream AR's. I have a extra lower so I think it might be a hammer in the near future.

[Hamish]

I don't know, no real point. .308 simply outclasses it in all categories.

Besides, if we DO need a new .30 caliber catridge with a small case capacity, why don't we simply take a 22 hornet, and straight wall it. And then I can have a case I KNOW would be perfectly fine for running with 80-120 grain pistol bullets at 1,000 fps

1. It's not a question of trying to equal the .308

2. Since when is Hornet brass to be had for next to nothing and a lot of the time free to be had at the local range.

3. .223/5.56 brass doesn't fold up like a hormonal teenager when you look at it wrong.

4. Any of these .223/5.56 based .30 caliber cartridges are perfectly fine with light pistol bullets at 1K fps.

5. I'm having a hard time figuring out you can "outclass" the .308 with a .30/.22 Hornet.

6. Since the thread was based on use in the AR, not really sure how a .30/.22 Hornet would figure into the discussion to start with.

[KMac]

There’s only one I’m interested in, 358 Yeti. And even though I’m on their mailing list I never receive an email when they have barrels in stock.
Looks they are in stock now.

[Loudy13]

YUP YUP I'm building one as soon as I can pull the trigger on the barrel dies and checker!! Would be nice if someone else made the barrel besides Wilson I'm sure its a great barrel but Wilson is pretty proud of there stuff $$. Might even take the HAM'r for a spin at 3 gun next summer just for fun.

[dragon813gt]

Looks they are in stock now.

Their store is still showing zero stock for the barrels.

[sundog]

Those 15 twist barrels are intriguing, to say the least. I'm just wondering if the throat will accommodate something like the RCBS 30-165-SIL.

Anyone have any first hand knowledge about these barrels and cast?

[rockrat]

You could probably just make up a barrel in 30 Apache (30-223) for your AR15. Probably be restricted to lighter weight bullets (125's or so) to fit magazine length. You could also trim back the neck a little bit for bullet clearance if needed

[RU shooter]

Those 15 twist barrels are intriguing, to say the least. I'm just wondering if the throat will accommodate something like the RCBS 30-165-SIL.

Anyone have any first hand knowledge about these barrels and cast?

No first had knowledge on a 15 twist but I had a 12 twist on my 20" blackout and it shot everything I fed it 200 grs and under very well . I would bet the 15 would do well also

[Texas by God]

You guys know a 30-223 won't fit or function in a standard AR15 mag, right? Neither will the 7.62x40 WT. Will the Hammr?

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[lefty o]

You guys know a 30-223 won't fit or function in a standard AR15 mag, right? Neither will the 7.62x40 WT. Will the Hammr?

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use the 300BO specific mags.

[LynC2]

use the 300BO specific mags.

Best answer, however as long as you don't load to the maximum number of rounds my 7.62x40WT will work with standard mags. Also if one slightly reduces the rib height in the plastic mags, they work fine at rated capacity.

[Texas by God]

But isn't the .30-223 too long with any weight bullet for the AR 15 mag? Sorry to seem dense, but if it would fit - it seems like we'd all be using it instead of the BO,WT, or whatever.

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[Hamish]

The blunter bullets up to about 125 will fit. 7TCU with the Lee 7mm will fit standard mags, almost built one a while back, still contemplating it.

Remember, the Whisper/BLK was created to fill a defined role and ended up being useful several different ways. If the military hadn't picked it up, I seriously doubt it would be of the scale it is today. The full length .223 conversions started way back in the 1970's among Single Shot pistol geeks for silhouette shooting. If the Contender and handgun hunting phenomenon hadn't happened, pretty sure that all the TCU's, the 30 WCF widcats, etc., would be virtually unknown among the general shooting populous.

[dk17hmr]

I don't know, no real point. .308 simply outclasses it in all categories.

Besides, if we DO need a new .30 caliber catridge with a small case capacity, why don't we simply take a 22 hornet, and straight wall it. And then I can have a case I KNOW would be perfectly fine for running with 80-120 grain pistol bullets at 1,000 fps

Straight wall 22 hornet is called a 270 Ren. I don't think you would get it up to 30 caliber. I think you are thinking of the 218 bee necked up which is a 32/20 and far from new.

[JimP]

Compared to the blackout, that thing will shine with 110-125 grain bullets. With 150's, not a big difference because much of the extra case capacity is eaten up by the bullet. For reference, I'm hunting with the blackout this year with 150 Gold Dot bullets @ 2200 fps. Realistically, the Ham'r will give you an extra 25 yard expansion window with the 150's, maybe 75 with the 110's. It's an obvious choice if you don't shoot subs and understand that you'll be reloading for it in a few years.

[jmort]

^^^ This makes sense

[nekshot]

to me it makes sense if you are adventurous in your thought processing. I believe it is all about the specific powder he is using (and I can buy that) and the 15 inch twist ( which I will spend at least and likely more for a barrel) barrel which they make. Ok, these ar,s are a money trap but if you get caught in the trap why stop? I simply will go buy another rifle on a whim and still wonder how the Ham'r really does perform. So I am in unless a better solution catches me! ( remember it is all about the trap) Hey, its America and at least we can do these things!!!

[Uncle Grinch]

Not being an AR follower, all this is really confusing to me. I know the basics between the AR15 and AR10 platform, but all these variations of the 223/5.56 muddy up the waters. Then you throw in the magazines.

I can understand the passion of the AR followers in their quest to find the perfect cartridge.

[dragon813gt]

Not being an AR follower, all this is really confusing to me. I know the basics between the AR15 and AR10 platform, but all these variations of the 223/5.56 muddy up the waters. Then you throw in the magazines.

The magazines are my main issue w/ a lot of the wildcats. I don’t want to have to use different mags. I don’t want to have to worry about mixing up mags. I don’t want to have to worry about grabbing the wrong mags. I don’t wan to modify the mags. If it doesn’t work in a stock 223/5.56 mag I’m not interested.

I understand wanting to get the most out of a platform. Especially w/ the weight difference between the AR15 and AR10. But at some point it’s best to buy another rifle that will do what you want.

[JimP]

to me it makes sense if you are adventurous in your thought processing. I believe it is all about the specific powder he is using (and I can buy that) and the 15 inch twist ( which I will spend at least and likely more for a barrel) barrel which they make. Ok, these ar,s are a money trap but if you get caught in the trap why stop? I simply will go buy another rifle on a whim and still wonder how the Ham'r really does perform. So I am in unless a better solution catches me! ( remember it is all about the trap) Hey, its America and at least we can do these things!!!

Exactly right. It's not a life-changing event if you buy an AR barrel that ends up not being exactly what you wanted. No reason not to go for it. I'd do it if I wasn't already covering both ends of the .30 spectrum with the Blackout and American 30 (which, by the way, is a phenomenal shooter but a bigger investment in time and money).

[DCM]

You guys know a 30-223 won't fit or function in a standard AR15 mag, right? Neither will the 7.62x40 WT. Will the Hammr?

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The HAM'R will fit in standard magazines. The COAL is shorter than 2.260"

[popper]

150 Gold Dot bullets @ 2200 fps That's a pretty hot load. I'm running 145gr cast to 2100 and P.P. doesn't last but a couple reloads.

[lefty o]

The HAM'R will fit in standard magazines. The COAL is shorter than 2.260"

the oal isnt the problem, they will fit, but they wont stack properly in a standard magazine. its really no issue, as either the 300pmag or the 300lancer mags run right around the same price as the other mags. thus far ive only fired maybe 180rnds thru my ham'r, but pretty happy with what ive gotten.

[popper]

I use a 185gr RD style and BO Lancer mags, no problem.

[MT Gianni]

I read the article and it reminded me of the 80's argument of how a 14" TC in 30-30 is better than a 94 as you can use pointed bullets. Load two 150 gr spitzer, one in the chamber and one in the magazine and you're there. LeveRrevolution powder and newer loads have made the argument stale with the 30-30 comparison. I have long lived by the creed "one shot, one deer, two shots maybe one deer, three shots, no deer". I recognize hog hunting may allow you multiple shots at more than one target but I believe that will be difficult with aimed fire. The instance when most of us will need a quick follow up can usually be done with a lever. The 300 Hamr seems to serve a very small niche with a developer that has no interest in taking it to a level where it is distributed on a national basis. For most of us it fits Jeff Coopers quite on DA autos. "An interesting solution to a non-existent problem".

[popper]

Should be better than 223 for yotes.

[Texas by God]

Should be better than 223 for yotes.
Nope. Spotlighting coyotes you don't want over penetration or ricochets. Unless you're using 85 gr hp in that Hamr, the .223 will be better. And yes, I've killed a dozen or four coyotes.

[Idaho45guy]

I have four ARs. Two in .223 that I rarely ever use, one in .450 Bushmaster that goes with me every time in the woods, and one that is just an AR10 lower at this point, but will be turned into a hunting rifle. I've never even considered turning an AR-15 into a serious hunting rifle. With the very inexpensive AR10 style lowers these days, it seems starting out with a platform that can handle appropriate calibers is much smarter and much less expensive that trying to create franken rifles using expensive and exotic calibers.

[Lloyd Smale]

problem with that is for a lot of us an ar10 is just a tank to haul around all day. Even my 50 beo because it needs a bigger tube is quite a bit heavier then a standard ar15. I think the goal for most here is finding a round powerful enough to kill cleanly in a light package. At least in my opinion the bo comes up a bit short in power unless all your shots are at 50 yards. Its closer in power to a 30 carbine or 357 lever gun then it is a 3030.
I have four ARs. Two in .223 that I rarely ever use, one in .450 Bushmaster that goes with me every time in the woods, and one that is just an AR10 lower at this point, but will be turned into a hunting rifle. I've never even considered turning an AR-15 into a serious hunting rifle. With the very inexpensive AR10 style lowers these days, it seems starting out with a platform that can handle appropriate calibers is much smarter and much less expensive that trying to create franken rifles using expensive and exotic calibers.

[Idaho45guy]

problem with that is for a lot of us an ar10 is just a tank to haul around all day. Even my 50 beo because it needs a bigger tube is quite a bit heavier then a standard ar15. I think the goal for most here is finding a round powerful enough to kill cleanly in a light package.

Seems that lightweight and handy AR10s exist as both NIB and do-it-yourself builds...

https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/ar-test-dpms-gii-308-hunter/

The rifle as a whole is indeed very lightweight for a .308 AR, and when I first picked it up it felt almost no different in weight or dimensions to a typical .223 AR. In fact the standard DPMS GII weighs only 0.75 pounds more than a comparable .223 AR. Yet, despite the reduced weight, DPMS also claims it has reduced recoil over other .308 ARs.


https://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/03/11/ultimate-lightweight-308-ar-hog-rifle/

The entire package (including the optic and minus the magazine) is 9.6lbs, which is stunningly light for a full accessorized and scoped .308. In fact I have several AR15s which are that heavy with the optics on. So it is light, easy to maneuver, packs 20-round of .308 in a semi-auto format, and shoots with very little recoil/shooter fatigue. This build not only hit the goals my experts and I had, it killed the goals exceeding everything I had hoped for.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup a ar10 with a scope under 10lbs is amazing. mine weighted more then that stripped.

[6.5 CM]

When the 30 Remington (AR) way outperforms this, is factory loaded and available in AR uppers, why would I want this ?

125 gr (8 g) Corelokt 2,800 ft/s (850 m/s) 2,176 ft⋅lbf

[Lloyd Smale]

Im sure that velocity is a generous number that was acquired with a 24 inch or longer barrel and probably using powders we cant buy. Sorry but I don't buy it in a 16 inch ar. A 308 has a much bigger powder capacity and needs to be pushed fairly hard to accomplish that in a 16 inch barrel. You can talk efficiency all day long but ive been loading for 50 years and have yet to see a smaller capacity case that will out perform a larger capacity case at the same pressure level. My 22 inch Kimber 308 will do 2950 with a 130 speer and a MAX load. Its a load I wouldn't beat an ar10 up with. theres not a chance in H&&& that a 30 rem is going to outperform a 308. Aint happening and you will never convince me that a 308 will outperform a 3006 either because of some mystical case shape.

[6.5 CM]

Regardless, it whups the 30 Hammer and there are actually rifles, uppers and ammo for sale.

[lefty o]

just some first hand info. ive loaded and chrono'd a bunch for the ham'r at this time. 125gr jacketed from 2200 to a bit over 2800fps. 2800 is too hot for sure, but ive settled on my loads at 2600fps from a 18" barrel. there's bigger and badder cartridges out there for sure, but 5.56 brass is free, just have to pick it up.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup uppers and ammo is available but its hard to find. At least with the hammer its easy to make your own brass. Readily available brass means a heck of a lot more to me then being able to buy some 20 round boxes of ammo for 30 bucks. Nothing wrong with the 30 rem and the 6.8 either if brass was cheap and easy to come by. Im in the process of building a 300 bo right now. Its not what i really want as it will do double duty as a deer hunting gun and id prefer a bit more power but my wallet tells me for at least now its the only logical choice. At least if a guy wants to actually shoot it like an ar on occasion. If that wasn't a factor id just buy another bolt action 308.
Regardless, it whups the 30 Hammer and there are actually rifles, uppers and ammo for sale.

[6.5 CM]

FYI there a 4 for sale on the net and Buds has plenty of ammo.

[popper]

Spotlighting coyotes I understand, never shot one but a friend has, hits them and they keep on trucking. Problem solved anyway but even a dog or pig needs to die quickly. Anyway, my take on Wilson is he is optimizing the 223 for 30 cal ( & others) for various purposes. The Ham'r is just the max length of a 223 case cut without getting into the shoulder. I've tried expanding the neck (annealed good) to make the BO - really hard to do without neck splits. He also changed the twist and changed the chamber a bit. Go for it. He's also doing a 458 Ham'r?
I have the AR10 carbine and rifle (way too heavy for field work, need to move it) plus the BO carbine and pistol - tune them for what I need. IMHO the Ham'r would be too much in a pistol.

[Hickok]

Having a 7.62 x 40 WT, (which I like very much), I quickly looked into this "new" Wilson cartridge.

Looking at loading data between the two, 7.62 x 40 WT vs the 300 Hamr, it seems the HAMR is using on average, 1 more grain of powder than the 7.62x 40WT with same bullets.

The HAMR has the neck moved forward 1mm, as compared to the 7.62 x 40 WT.

BIG difference?...….I doubt it.

[Earlwb]

I was reading some articles about the 300 Ham'r and it seems that to get the performance they are touting, it has to be generating chamber pressures of 60,000 psi or more. That doesn't bode well for case life and reloading. Plus the locking lugs on the bolt and barrel is getting stressed even more too, So basically one could probably duplicate this performance by going over the maximum loads and chamber pressures in a 7.62x39 or 300 Blackout too.

[lefty o]

I was reading some articles about the 300 Ham'r and it seems that to get the performance they are touting, it has to be generating chamber pressures of 60,000 psi or more. That doesn't bode well for case life and reloading. Plus the locking lugs on the bolt and barrel is getting stressed even more too, So basically one could probably duplicate this performance by going over the maximum loads and chamber pressures in a 7.62x39 or 300 Blackout too.

you could probably get there with the 7.62x39, but due to its tapered case you would have signifigantly more bolt thrust. IMO the 300BO doesnt have enough case capacity to even get in the ballpark loaded hot.

[brstevns]

What is wrong with the 30 Apache? Just expand 223 brass to 30 cal and you are ready to go

[popper]

Watched some Hamr hog vids last nite. Comparing 6.5, Hamr with 150 gdots and 110s. Guy is going back to 110s. My guess, recoil for follow up @ 200 or so. Results on maybe 20-30 hogs, 110 in the Hamr compare favorably to 6.5, 150s, not so well. 223 trajectory with twice the bullet. 20 or so hogs WHEN he's out hunting, he's got a real problem.

[sundog]

Barrels are currently on sale at shopwilsoncombat.com (https://shopwilsoncombat.com/300-HAMR/products/1072/)

[Larry Gibson]

I was reading some articles about the 300 Ham'r and it seems that to get the performance they are touting, it has to be generating chamber pressures of 60,000 psi or more. That doesn't bode well for case life and reloading. Plus the locking lugs on the bolt and barrel is getting stressed even more too, So basically one could probably duplicate this performance by going over the maximum loads and chamber pressures in a 7.62x39 or 300 Blackout too.

And what do we think 5.56 NATO generates these days?

I load my 223 (for modern bolt guns) and 5.56 NATO for ARs to milsurp pressures which run 60,000+ psi (actually measured) and have excellent case life with LC brass.

[sundog]

Having a 7.62 x 40 WT, (which I like very much), I quickly looked into this "new" Wilson cartridge.

Looking at loading data between the two, 7.62 x 40 WT vs the 300 Hamr, it seems the HAMR is using on average, 1 more grain of powder than the 7.62x 40WT with same bullets.

The HAMR has the neck moved forward 1mm, as compared to the 7.62 x 40 WT.

BIG difference?...….I doubt it.

Difference at this point is readily available barrels. 7.62x40 is 12 twist 300 Ham'r is 15 twist. That 15 twist is sure alluring for cast. And then the fun begins finding a boolit and powder/charge that would work well. Those fancy j-bullets get a little pricey after a bit.

[brstevns]

Is there a difference between the 30-223 and the 300 hamr. I have a 30-223 bolt rifle, was wondering if ammo is interchangeable?

[sundog]

Is there a difference between the 30-223 and the 300 hamr. I have a 30-223 bolt rifle, was wondering if ammo is interchangeable?

Case taper on the 300 Ham'r is straighter than 30-223, also case length and shoulder angle is different.

I doubt a 300 Ham'r would chamber in a 30-223.

A 30-223 might chamber in a 300 Ham'r, but neck length might cause a pressure problem when fired.

I would not try either.

[brstevns]

Case taper on the 300 Ham'r is straighter than 30-223, also case length and shoulder angle is different.

I doubt a 300 Ham'r would chamber in a 30-223.

A 30-223 might chamber in a 300 Ham'r, but neck length might cause a pressure problem when fired.

I would not try either.

Can the 300 Hamr be made from 223 brass ?

[sundog]

I think some have tried making 300 Ham'r brass from 5.56/.223. I have no knowledge of how that worked.

New 300 Ham'r brass is available from Wilson and Starline. It might be available at some of the etailers, also. That is a whole lot easier.

[lefty o]

I think some have tried making 300 Ham'r brass from 5.56/.223. I have no knowledge of how that worked.

New 300 Ham'r brass is available from Wilson and Starline. It might be available at some of the etailers, also. That is a whole lot easier.

ive made brass, its not overly difficult. not as easy as buying it already done though.

[brstevns]

ive made brass, its not overly difficult. not as easy as buying it already done though.

What steps are needed?

[lefty o]

i expand the necks to 25 then 27 cal then run them through the 300hamr sizing die, trim and anneal. if a guy annealed first, at least one of those expanding steps could probably be skipped, but just my method.

[Texas by God]

I can't see it being any improvement over the 7.62x39 that I've gone with for a hunting AR. But to each his own, this is America and we have choices.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[sundog]

I can't see it being any improvement over the 7.62x39 that I've gone with for a hunting AR. But to each his own, this is America and we have choices.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I guess 'we' won't know until 'we' try, eh?

[Lloyd Smale]

Wonder why someone hasn't blown out a black out case to make a 300 bo imp. I know you wouldn't gain much but youd still have free or very cheap brass. You don't gain a lot over the bo as is if your talking pistol length guns anyway. Even the 308 out of a 9 inch barrel doesn't trounce a 300 bo out of the same. Just a huge fireball of unused powder. I had a bushmaster 762x39 and it was the hands down worse feeding ar15 ive ever fooled with. I tried c products mags, ak47 extra power mag springs and about even fix people suggested and it still rarely ran two mags in a row without a missfeed. I see psa is making a dedicated 762x39 lower that takes ak47 mags. That might be worth looking into. All said I have 3 300 bos now a 16 inch an 8.5 and a 7 inch gun. Ive killed deer out to 200 yards with the 16 inch gun and it did some impressive internal damage with the 110barnes. Maybe this is all about nothing as it doesn't need much improvement from what ive seen. If you want more theres allways the 6.5 Grendel which will be up and running tommarow if the mail is on time. Again though your buying brass and for the most part with that one are going to be buying bullets. so It will never replace my bos that with 130 rcbs cast bullets is cheaper to shoot then a 556 by a long shot and is sneaking close to my 9mm ars for inexpensive plinking.

[Texas by God]

Maybe they figured it out, Lloyd because my mutt by me AR 7.62x39 runs like a top with everything from CB loads to Tula/Wolf to my 123gr jacketed loads. I had a problem with seating depth with an ASC mag using Lee 150F but that's resolved. Perhaps its because I use only ten round mags. I have one C- products and two Midway/ ASC and they work great. Maybe a 7.62x39 IMP would win the boiler room contest. Aw heck, I'll just use it as it is- "almost a 30-30."

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[lefty o]

its like anything else folks, pick your poison. supposedly the 7.62x39 ar's have gotten better, idk for sure as i dont have one. the mags have always been the problem with them, and now they supposedly make some that run fine with more than 7 or 10rnds. my ham'r works fine with 20&30rnd mags, dont know about less as i dont have any.

[DigBig]

If I wanted an AR firing a cartridge that was shy of 30-30 performance but more effective than the Poodle-Shooter, the 7.62x39 would fit the bill and is chambered in number of available, low cost AR options plus AK options and an array of ex SovBloc surplus.

But novelty seems to have an attraction all its own.

[Lloyd Smale]

maybe so. Its been about 15 years since I dumped mine. That said unless your shooting bullets heavier then 130s the 762x39 burns substantially more powder then the BO and doesn't give much better velocity. Especially in a pistol length barrel where there about neck and neck. That and theres a lot better selection of bullets and molds in 308 then in 311. Big advantage to the 762x39 in my opinion is cheap wolf ammo if you don't load but not many here would be here if they didn't load. I just got a 6.5 Grendel and ask myself why I even did that because it doesn't out perform the bo by much either. At least out to 200 yards and all of these rounds discussed here are about 200 yard max deer rounds anyway. I guess about the only real step up are the Winchester super short mags in the ars. Most of this is just mine is bigger then yours crap that in the field doesn't mean squat.
Maybe they figured it out, Lloyd because my mutt by me AR 7.62x39 runs like a top with everything from CB loads to Tula/Wolf to my 123gr jacketed loads. I had a problem with seating depth with an ASC mag using Lee 150F but that's resolved. Perhaps its because I use only ten round mags. I have one C- products and two Midway/ ASC and they work great. Maybe a 7.62x39 IMP would win the boiler room contest. Aw heck, I'll just use it as it is- "almost a 30-30."

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[RoyEllis]

Lloyd are your comparisons based solely on ar's with pistol length barrels?

[Lloyd Smale]

for the most part yes. But that said my 16 inch bo will push a 110 barnes to 2400 fps easily with no pressure signs and might even do 2500 if I didn't care about brass life. My old 762x39 looking at my old load data did 2400=2450 with a 125 with max book loads. Bc's between those two bullets are about the same so its mostly a wash. Surely not enough difference that a deer would notice. Pistol barrel about makes them equal and for the most part a 10.5 in barrel puts the 308s right there will them. 10 years ago if you would have told me id be hunting deer with a little round like that I would have laughed at you. But after this year and the damage they did to the deer is shot with them id say there right in there with anything up to a 3030 out to 200 yards. Not devastating, not an o6 or 7 mag! But they will kill a deer if you do your part.

[cupajoe]

So,you fellows that are actually shooting the Ham'r, what cast bullet are you using? I believe Corky was using the RCBS 130 spitzer in the slightly shorter 7.62x40. Wonder how the throat compares between the 2.

[Lloyd Smale]

that's my go to bullet in the BO. It easily shoots 2moa at a 100 yards out of a decent gun. With some load development id bet you could get it even better.
So,you fellows that are actually shooting the Ham'r, what cast bullet are you using? I believe Corky was using the RCBS 130 spitzer in the slightly shorter 7.62x40. Wonder how the throat compares between the 2.

[Lloyd Smale]

I think if I was going to do a 762x39 today id do one of the psa dedicated lower guns that use ak47 mags. Reviews on them are really good.

[dkf]

I was looking at the PSA KS47 but have read several guys had issues with combloc magazines. Supossibly they were designed to work best with Magpul AK mags. All I have is combloc surplus steel ak mags and I really don't have interest in buying magpul mags. Still undecided if I want to try a KS47. If I buy a regular AR in 7.62x30 I'll end up having to buy new magazines anyway. Maybe I'll just build another AK.

[popper]

Finally chronyd some rnds from the BO 10" 1:8 pistol. 145gr FN cast, PC or BLL. 1800 - not pushed hard, with H110. 145 & 170,185 RD style cast - 1300. My 6# (loaded with 3x scope)PCC equal with cfe pistol and it cycles fine. Bang then whack is kinda neat. The 145 with H110 in the 18" 1:10 carbine does ~2k. WT or Ham'r would be a little much to handle from pistol. If I changed carbine, I'd just keep the BO chamber and make the case 40 or 41. Shooting left over rnds random, sitting with bipod @ 50. Hog or deer accurate - I can do better. Got a hog @ 25 with 40sw 165gr cast so this should do OK. Yea, scope is off a bit. If I had a 200 yd shot I'd take the 308W AR10. And only make the shot supported in a stand.
254519

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess after the headache of my attempt at an ar in 762x39 im with you. Id just buy an ak that is dead reliable and good right out of the box with any mag. Even one dropped in the sand. If I want to shoot out past a 100 yards ill just grab a different gun.
I was looking at the PSA KS47 but have read several guys had issues with combloc magazines. Supossibly they were designed to work best with Magpul AK mags. All I have is combloc surplus steel ak mags and I really don't have interest in buying magpul mags. Still undecided if I want to try a KS47. If I buy a regular AR in 7.62x30 I'll end up having to buy new magazines anyway. Maybe I'll just build another AK.

[DCM]

What is wrong with the 30 Apache? Just expand 223 brass to 30 cal and you are ready to go

Only shortcoming I see is a lack of usable bullet choices. Gotta keep the nose short.

[dogmower]

100 fps faster than a 7.62x39? Meh.

[Duckhunter]

I did not particularly care for the AR rifles but I bought a Remington R-15 some years ago. What I really wanted was the AR rifle with the 30 Rem AR which disappeared. I would make one but the brass isn't something I can make out of other cartridges. I finally found a useful AR in the 357 AR (357 Remington Maximum rimless). I know it is a reloading only cartridge but I like to reform/reload so that is not a particularly difficult problem. The brass is cheap (I did buy some Starline 223 basic brass) and after I got past the learning curve on proper case length and powder charges and bullet seating depths I enjoy shooting/reloading for it. I do know that the 180 grain and 200 grain bullets hit with authority. My 358 cast from the 190 grain Ranch Dog mold, gas checked of course, is also a great combination. All things considered, this is a fun gun for me AND it finally makes my AR a hunting rifle (as opposed to my other AR, which is a varmint rifle)

[sundog]

Some small success today. NOE 311-152-SP GC PC (Smoke's clear) .309 over 21.0/IMR4198 feed and function reliable with positive lock back with Gen3 Magpul. Brass (from Wilson Combat), primed with CCI #41, piled reliably at 4 o'clock. I did not have a target out as it's to stinkin' wet that I'm not walking down there. Rounds appeared to hit berm circa POA @ 50 yds. This is a Wilson 18" bbl, 15 twist, intermediate tube.

Any one else shooting cast in the Ham'r yet?

Looking at the RCBS 30-165-SIL as a possible... Might have to single load those.

[blikseme300]

Some small success today. NOE 311-152-SP GC PC (Smoke's clear) .309 over 21.0/IMR4198 feed and function reliable with positive lock back with Gen3 Magpul. Brass (from Wilson Combat), primed with CCI #41, piled reliably at 4 o'clock. I did not have a target out as it's to stinkin' wet that I'm not walking down there. Rounds appeared to hit berm circa POA @ 50 yds. This is a Wilson 18" bbl, 15 twist, intermediate tube.

Any one else shooting cast in the Ham'r yet?

Looking at the RCBS 30-165-SIL as a possible... Might have to single load those.

I have made up 500 cases and will load some up this weekend to try. I have done quite a bit with the 7.62x40WT and bought the 300HAM'R barrel and dies from WC on a whim.

Making brass was a chore so I took a detour and bought a Dillon RT1500 and 223 trim die to make brass easier. I trimmed the die and the trimmer to get where I needed to be but it works well!

[blikseme300]

Was disappointed earlier today with my 300 HAM’R frankenrifle as it did not cycle properly. I ordered a gas block and tube from WC to replace the parts-pile ones I used in the build.

Loads were promising though. Used Midway 110gn blemish bullets on top of 23gn H4198 and 23gn Reloder7. Chronoed with a Magnetospeed at 2150 and 2200 respectively.

Once I have sorted the gas system I’ll start with CB’s.

[lefty o]

Was disappointed earlier today with my 300 HAM’R frankenrifle as it did not cycle properly. I ordered a gas block and tube from WC to replace the parts-pile ones I used in the build.

Loads were promising though. Used Midway 110gn blemish bullets on top of 23gn H4198 and 23gn Reloder7. Chronoed with a Magnetospeed at 2150 and 2200 respectively.

Once I have sorted the gas system I’ll start with CB’s.

you have a heck of a parts pile if you had a gas tube laying around the same length as what wilson uses.

[sundog]

Ran into the same problem with the gas tube length. First one was an intermediate that 13-3/4", 1/2" too long.

Had to order another that was 13-1/4". Thereafter, all is well.

Gonna try some PC 30-165-SIL today, if they will chamber.

[sundog]

30-165-SIL to fat in the nose to chamber.

NOE 311-152-SP works good over 22.0/DP 73 (300 Ham'r) and got the BU sights on paper at 25 yds yesterday.

I had lunch with Army buds today - they all have gray hair. I wonder why. :roll: Good fellowship!

Popper, tell us more about the 31-142D, please.

[blikseme300]

you have a heck of a parts pile if you had a gas tube laying around the same length as what wilson uses.

Yes I do. I actually bought out an estate of a gunsmith and there are many AR parts from this. Below a pic of the parts-pile tube together with the tube from Wilson Combat. This weekend I’ll do more testing and hopefully the rifle will function as it should.
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[popper]

Sundog - started with a 31-168b for the ar10 and it worked great. When I got into BO I tried the same concept for the 31-142C (PB) worked good too. Changed the nose profile just a tad and eliminated the groove entirely (31-142D) - groove above GC does the job. Reduce the GC shank a couple thous. for Hornady's to fit easy. Been working with the pistol until the weather came south - I'll try posting some 100yd results with the carbine when temps go up and rain stops. Anyway the 142D feeds and chambers fine, is short for the mag (1.90 IIRC) - longer and the step jams. I size to 3085.

[sundog]

Minor success today with NOE 311-152-SP (GC, Clear PC, .309) over 20.0/H116 @ OAL 2.250. Feed and function is good. Lock back is positive with Brownell's 5.56 20-rd mags. Primers look good. Fifty yard accuracy on the last five shots off hand was a 3" triangle.

Edit to add: that is with the MBUS sights.

[Mark1Mod0]

Wow! 123 posts, 10 that are actually from 4 apparent owners of 300 Ham'r, and 6 that are cast boolit related…..sad. Well, now its 124/11/5/7! All the recent talk about the ham'r is correct. It is exceptionally accurate with jacketed bullets. MOA 10 shot groups for me. Most loads shoot within 1 MOA of POI. Cast is still a work in progress though. The 1-15" twist is almost perfect for the cast boolit crowd. I have run the Lyman 115 GC carbine, the Lyman 130g Plain base carbine, and the 155 Lee GC bullets down my barrel already, all PC. So far all loads are 6 MOA or worse at 100, using a 24x optic to remove as much shooter error as possible. I will keep on trying, but I have had much more luck with the 300 BO shooting cast. Anyone else find a sweet spot of sub 3 MOA with cast in the Ham'r yet?

[brstevns]

Still prefer the 300 apache if a bolt gun.

[muta4warrior]

This is wilson combat now, they will want to keep the barrels as a proprietary thing, which will restrict supply. Plus they will not be cheap, further depressing demand. How long will remington support an ammo they cant move? How many of their own ammos have they dumped after a few years?

I jumped on board with Wilson when they brought out the 40WT, sending back 2 crap barrels later, I switched to a WOA barrel and am happy. For the suttle differences between the Ham"r and the 40WT, I won't be swapping out like I did for the 300 Whisper and 300 BO.

[popper]

Mark1 - what load. I have BO 1:10 18" carbine and push 142gr PB PCd to 2100 and get MOA. What alloy? IMHO 1:15 may be too slow.