7x57mm Mauser

[richhodg66]

Been discussed before, but I like the 7mm Mauser and even though it's probably not the best candidate for a cast hunting rifle, I plan to try it out. I bought a '93 Mauser sporter this past year on a whim and have quickly fallen in love with it. I shot it a lot over the Summer, went through a 1K count box of gas checks plus a few other bullets I had already cast up.

The deer load I've developed is a 287308 which was gifted to me and is factory hollow pointed. I cast these up from Larry's alloy, 50/50 COWW to pure with 2% of the wheel weight added. I'm shooting it with 30 grains of IMR 3031 which should be giving a little over 1900 FPS according to the RCBS cast manual I have. The bullets weigh 165 grains and that load will consistently shoot 2" three shot groups at 100 yards.

Our two day antlerless segment is this weekend. I'll be hunting from tree stands and tend to make close shots at unalarmed deer. I hope to have a good report Sunday or Monday.

[poppy42]

The 7mm Mauser was used to take all of the most dangerous game in Africa at one point in time

[Petrol & Powder]

I have a special place in my heart for the 7mm Mauser. It's a great cartridge

It's a shame that the 7mm-08 has just about killed it off in terms new guns chambered for the 7mm Mauser but there are plenty of good old rifles out there.

The 7 x 57 is very close to a "do it all" cartridge. The 7mm-08 beats it slightly in terms of ballistics on paper but I think the 7 x 57 holds its own in the real world.

Sako made a medium length action for a while and that action was just about the perfect length for the 7mm Mauser; I still kick myself for not picking up one of those actions back when they were readily available.

The .308 Winchester, 7mm-08 and the 7mm Mauser are all fantastic general purpose rifle cartridges that really perform well over a huge range of duties. Of those three, the 7mm Mauser is clearly the oldest and the other two owe a great deal of their development to the 7mm Mauser.

I look forward to hearing the report on the OP's hunting round.

[smoked turkey]

I too have a soft place in my heart for the great 7mm Mauser. I have a sporter that has an adjustable drop-in trigger with Remington style side safety, what I call a jeweled bolt, commercial bolt shroud on the rear of the bolt, and a walnut stock with a low cheek weld. None of it is especially expensive but it makes for a nice looking rifle. My best whitetail fell to it a few years ago (an 8 point). I am anxious to hear how your hunt turns out.

[TCLouis]

Hope to hear how the cast in 7X57 worked.
Not the 7X57 for me . . . yet (don't have it all put together yet) but my Husky 7mm Mag loves cast and I would gladly work on a softer boolit if need be.
I have yet to shoot anything but cast through that 7 mm Mag, but roughly a thousand of those went where I sent them so far.
I can always load the Mag comparable to 7X57 velocities.

[sharps4590]

The 7 X 57 is never wrong

[EMC45]

Karamojo Bell

[toallmy]

I picked up a small ring mauser in 7x57 this summer strictly as a cast shooter but have not been able to spend much quality time with it . Have a nice hunt .

[725]

eager to hear your stories. 7 x 57 is such a great cartridge in an old rifle.

[Don Purcell]

Don't have one but think a Ruger #1 with an International style stock would be the bees knees.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Glad to hear that I`m not alone in liking the 7 Mauser. About 20 years back I developed this itch for a 7 Mauser. I had a DWM 98 large ring action for a start. I got a 24" fluted barrel put on then came the action work smoothing it to close as a butter feel as possible. A Timney trigger with side safety was added. Finally the AA grade walnut stock from Richards Micro fit was done and 10 coats of Tru - Oil later it was done. A Leupold 2 x 7X sits on the reciever. All I can say is this rifle shoots Hornady 139 gr. sp bullets like `A house afire`! I still hope to try a RCBS 145 gr. `silly wet` boolet thru it Good luck with your 7.Robert

[Hamish]

Rich,

Your setup will kill anything on this continent. Come back with pics,,,,,,.

[Wolfer]

When I was young and knew so much more than I do now I was not impressed by the 7x57. Later in life I happened to trade for a 98 with a 7x57 barrel. I started shooting it and it shot quite well and was pleasant to shoot. Deer season rolled around and I took it hunting. A couple deer later I was starting to become impressed. It was light, accurate, pleasant to shoot and killed deer and coyotes very well.
I was setting on several Turkish Mausers so I put a 7x57 barrel from midway on one. Turned the bolt, added a Timney trigger and a Gentry saftey. Put it in a blank from Brownells that I cut to fit me in a European sporter style with a schnable fore end.
This was the first rifle I built completely on my own so it certainly holds some sentimental value. It has taken a pile of deer and coyotes over the years.
I now consider the 7x57 to be one of the finest all around calibers ever developed.

Good luck on your hunt.

[zymguy]

I've just started mucking around with that 287308 boolit for my 280 rem. Seems to need to be seated deep. Id love to see a photo if possible of one in your X 57. ill prob try 3031 at 1900 ish fps now thanks

[richhodg66]

This rifle was rebarrelled, it is not the original military stepped barrel, but seems to have kept the long throat. I can seat that long bullet out far enough that nothing is below the case neck and they still chamber easily. I size mine to .287.

The rifle is not a tack driver, but plenty good enough for what I want it to do and I like the dimensions of it so much.

[nockhunter]

I like mine, it's a Rem mountain rifle 7x57. I don't shoot cast in it but it likes 140g B-TIPS. It's only slower than the 7-08 because of the U.S factory loads. Loaded to the same pressure as 7-08, it's a little faster (slightly larger boiler room).

Mike

228207

[Petrol & Powder]

Good point on the SAAMI limits for the 7 x 57.
Because SAAMI tends to set pressure limits based on the weakest guns chambered for a particular round, the U.S. limits are sometimes lower that what most actions can handle. The European C.I.P. maximum pressure limits for the 7mm Mauser are a bit higher.

There are a lot of Mauser 93 and 95 models that are capable of safely handling the 7mm Mauser but it appears that SAAMI is worried that there may be a few that are not. Out of an abundance of caution SAAMI tends to set their limits using the lowest common denominator principle.

[nekshot]

My favorite mauser cartridge. Looking forward to hearing your report. I bought a brand new military barrel that was in long time storage. Some water got into the front 3 inches of barrel and I had to keep cutting off till I had a clean symmetric barrel crown. Ok, its now the fabled tanker carbine!

[Shawlerbrook]

Agreed ! Probably never needed another whitetail deer cartridge ever invented after the trusty old 7x57.

[RED BEAR]

i agree with poppy42 when it came out was touted as the best killing rifle ever invented . was used to hunt everything from elephant to buffalo. and everything inbetween. i think it will work great on deer.

[MT Gianni]

Good point on the SAAMI limits for the 7 x 57.
Because SAAMI tends to set pressure limits based on the weakest guns chambered for a particular round, the U.S. limits are sometimes lower that what most actions can handle. The European C.I.P. maximum pressure limits for the 7mm Mauser are a bit higher.

There are a lot of Mauser 93 and 95 models that are capable of safely handling the 7mm Mauser but it appears that SAAMI is worried that there may be a few that are not. Out of an abundance of caution SAAMI tends to set their limits using the lowest common denominator principle.

I think it is the Remington RB's that concern SAAMI not the 93/95's. I have a 93 carbine with a washed out bore and throat and a Mauser Mark X in 7x57. My loads for the two do not interchange.

[TCLouis]

Hope you saw something, got a shot and have results to report.
Looks like whether one uses length or volume the 7X57 has about 10 % volume increase over the 7-08 which could be significant with slow burning powder and loading to full potential.
As far as strength I betting there are 3 relative strengths to load too . . .
Rolling Block, 93-95 and 98/modern centerfire

[fiberoptik]

Have a Spanish military Mauser in 7x57. Beautiful outside, poor looking barrel inside. Hadn’t shot it yet, but looking forward to it.


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[richhodg66]

Pre-rut antlerless season this weekend and here I am. Poured down rain all night and has been this morning, just not gonna go out and sit in that. Looks like it's going to improve some. I hope so, maybe this evening.

[ole_270]

I'm a couple + hours east of you, it waited till just about daylight to start up. Forecast is showing thunderstorms for the next several days. Depending on the weather somewhat, I'll either be hunting close cover with a Marlin 336 rebored to 38-55 and cast or my old M99R Savage 250-3000 with the 87 gr Speer Hot Core in more open ground.

[richhodg66]

Worst case, I'll just get the year's venison the hard way with the crossbow. Not out of meat yet, and a few weekends in late October or November will do it. I'd much rather use a rifle, particularly this one since I've been working with it so much.

It's nasty out there right now, but predicted to slow down later. I hate hunting in the rain, tracking becomes tough if need be. I'll probably get out later.

[richhodg66]

Almost didn't go out. #2 son showed up from college and we hadn't seen him in a couple of months, so kinda got lazy, but he wanted to go hang out with some friends for a while so I went. Dressed for down pours, wasn't too bad. Set up in a good spot, and had this doe come in maybe an hour before it got dark. She went down pretty fast, though I did have to look for her. She made it maybe 50 yards. The deer was standing more facing away from me than I thought, I was trying to hit her pretty far back in the rib cages figuring the bullet would exit just forward of the opposite shoulder. As it happened, hit high in the flank and what was left of the bullet was under the skin just forward of the brisket, so it penetrated a long way after expanding violently. It tore up a good bit of the left back strap, darn it, could fit my hand through the hole once I had the skin off. Damaged one tenderloin too. I think if I use this bullet again, I'll slow it down some and/or wait on a better shot. If I'd been a little more patient, I might have gotten a more broadside shot. Anyway, meat in the freezer, rifle got rained on, bloodied and dropped in the mud (I did too) gonna have to give her a good detail cleaning now.
228411

[Rick Hodges]

Good Work. Do you think the hollow point was too much?

[thadfz]

Great looking rifle, congrats

Good eating deer also!


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[richhodg66]

Good Work. Do you think the hollow point was too much?

Not sure, was definitely more destructive than I'd like, but a lot of that is my fault for taking that shot. A shot through the lungs would have probably been perfect. I'll try to weigh and take a pic of what remains of the bullet, looks to have mushroomed well, but I doubt even half the original weight remains. It went through almost the length of the deer, so penetration isn't an issue.

I carefully read Von Gruff's posts about his 7x57 loads, he uses the RCBS 168 grain bullet with a soft nose and a linotype driving portion. He also pushes them faster than I think I will. I have that mold, just haven't cast with it yet.

I kill two deer a year on average and except for the occasional arrow, haven't used anything but cast on them since 2009 right after I got back from Iraq. It's not hard with .30s or bigger, at least not under the conditions I hunt. I had some concerns about a bullet this small. I doubt I'll try to do this with anything smaller, though I think I could.

[Uncle Grinch]

Glad it all worked out for you. Nice rifle and good venison.

Think you may be right to slow that hollow point down slightly, but I’d keep it between 1600 and 1800, depending on your alloy.

[Petrol & Powder]

Good Job.

I wouldn't make any decisions about the load or bullet based on one shot and one deer. I think you did the best you could given the presentation of the deer.
If anything, the hollow point may be the issue considering the apparent loss of bullet weight and destruction of meat. A flat point may be a better a profile but I wouldn't be jumping from bullet to bullet based on one deer with a difficult presentation. It doesn't sound as if there was a lack of penetration!

One thing is for certain, the 7x57 is a outstanding cartridge !

[Larry Gibson]

Excellent job. For a factory HP stem performance was as I would have expected because the HP is very deep and the 7mm bullet doesn't have the diameter mass that larger caliber bullets have. I found years ago, with the factory HP stem, that even .30 cal cast HP bullets give too much expansion. I found that shortening the HP stem or when using the 1/8" Forster HP tool a 3/16" deep HP gives the best overall performance. Cast with the 50/50 + 2% alloy the bullets give more of a controlled expansion with minimal expansion petal sloughing, The short HP does not give the violent expansion of the deep factory stem HP. I also suggest trying the bullet/load again as results from that shot may not be indicative of the performance from a better placed shot, as you mention.

Again, well done.

[Larry Gibson]

Speaking of 7x57 psi's;

I have pressure tested numerous factory and milsurp (going back to DWM 1918 headstamp) in my M1895 Chilean Mauser with the M43 Oehler. Federal factory ammunition of known factory measured psi was used as "reference" ammunition. Pressures ranged from 44,000 psi up to 59,000+ psi with milsurp ammunition. The DWM 1918, presumably made for the abundant M93 and M95s available at that time, with the 172 gr RNFMJ cupro-nickel jacketed bullets measured 54,800 psi. The psi of new US commercial made ran in the mid 50,000 psi range also. My favorite jacketed bullet hunting load (154 gr Hornady SP over H4831SC) runs 55,700 psi. To duplicate the classic 7x57 load with the 175 gr Hornady RNSP I load it to 2400 fps (22" barrel) over 49 gr H4831 which runs at 52,100 psi which is less psi than the milsurp 172 gr RN loads.

I was souveniered some PC'd RCBS 28-162-SPs that were .288 diameter and found 25 gr of H4895 with a Dacron filler to be the most accurate load. It runs 1870 fps at 29,300 psi. Two loads I have not yet pressure tested are; a 50/50 + 2% alloyed 287308 (163 gr fully dressed) a good max load for hunting is 28 gr H4895 with a Dacron filler which runs 1974 fps. My 1st choice is the original RCBS (semi-Loverin design) 28-168-FN cast of 50/50 + 2% and sized as cast at .287. Loaded over 30 gr H4895 with a Dacron filler they run 2087 fps out of my 22" barreled M95 and hold hunting accuracy (3 moa at 200 yards).

[richhodg66]

Actually, it did have a very deep hollow point stem, and after reading your advice in another thread, I shortened it to where it's maybe 3/16" deep. The bullet shoots well, the rifle is not a tack driver, but decently accurate.

I have been shooting the Midsouth "soup can" bullet through it for practice and after this, am beginning to wonder if it might not make a good hunting bullet now. Seems awfully light, but for most shots, I wouldn't need the penetration this one gave.

I do plan to try this again, our rifle season won't start until Late November, but if I haven't tagged out with the crossbow by then, this rifle will go back to the woods.

[Larry Gibson]

Good luck, good hunting, hold hard and shoot straight.....if you bag another a similar detailed report would be much appreciated.

[Texas by God]

I like that rifle. I'd hunt with it too. Congrats on Meat!

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[sharps4590]

Heavy for caliber, large meplat bullet, dead game with little meat damage. Usually pretty accurate as well.

[725]

you did good. that is a beautiful rifle ------------ and it's in a super caliber, too. well done

[Rick Hodges]

I just got the "soup can" mold and plan to use it for fire forming loads in my 7-30 Waters Contender Carbine. I'm curious about its performance at 2000 fps or so on deer.

[richhodg66]

I cast about six pots of them when I started with it, sized to .287 and with ten grains of Green Dot and now 10 grains of 700X since I ran out of Green Dot, it has been my practice loads and I've used up a 1K count box of gas checks in the past few months shooting them through this rifle. I haven't given the soup can a serious accuracy test yet, I was looking for a good practice bullet I could easily cast in quantity, but with the nose profile it has, I'm beginning to think it would work OK.

[Texas by God]

I cast some C309113f this weekend to try in my Glenfield 30-30. Speaking of soupcans. If I get good accuracy around 2300 fps darn right I'd shoot a close range deer with it. Rich, got a pic of one of your loads?

[richhodg66]

That 113 grain soup can seems a popular bullet. I used some Dad cast up as a small game bullet, works well.

I'll try to get a picture of before and after bullets.

[nekshot]

Congrats! Nice deer, gun, and a 7x57 at that. Love it.

[richhodg66]

Not a very good picture, left to right, loaded round, 287308 lubed and checked, 166 grains, recovered bullet after going almost lengthwise through the deer, 79 grains retained weight.
228537

[Texas by God]

Very good. Proof of concept or whatever it is they say. It worked perfectly!

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[richhodg66]

Could have worked different if the range were farther, the shot was better, etc., but killed quickly which is the important thing. I never found the gas check.

[waksupi]

Not a very good picture, left to right, loaded round, 287308 lubed and checked, 166 grains, recovered bullet after going almost lengthwise through the deer, 79 grains retained weight.
228537

I would consider trying a bit softer alloy. I think they should retain more original weight than that. However, you can't argue with your results!

[zymguy]

Not a very good picture, left to right, loaded round, 287308 lubed and checked, 166 grains, recovered bullet after going almost lengthwise through the deer, 79 grains retained weight.
228537

Thanks for the photo and congratulations on the deer ! your alloy is half clip on wheel weights and half pure lead with 2% of the wheel weight tin ?
" I cast these up from Larry's alloy, 50/50 COWW to pure with 2% of the wheel weight added "

Does the gun have a generous throat? I have to seat that bullet probably 1/4 inch deeper in a 280 rem case
How'd you cook the tenderloins?

[rockydoc]

Hunting season doesn’t open until Thanksgiving here in Northwest Florida. I live in PanamaCity. Hurricane Michael is right on top of my home right now. I evacuated to Auburn, AL where at the moment it is only sprinkling rain. I left my guns at home when I left there at 2:00 AM. If my 7X57mm Winchester M 70 survives the hurricane I will be hunting with the Lee 130 grain flat nose soup can. I just received a photo of my son’s house, a tree has fallen on his roof. I was in that house at 1:00AM this morning when we decided to leave.

[richhodg66]

Thanks for the photo and congratulations on the deer ! your alloy is half clip on wheel weights and half pure lead with 2% of the wheel weight tin ?
" I cast these up from Larry's alloy, 50/50 COWW to pure with 2% of the wheel weight added "

Does the gun have a generous throat? I have to seat that bullet probably 1/4 inch deeper in a 280 rem case
How'd you cook the tenderloins?

It does have a generous throat, that bullet base is still in the case neck and it feeds through the magazine slick as glass. That is the alloy I use, I think I would slow it down a bit if I do it again, but maybe not. This wasn't the best shot angle, a broadside would probably have done better, though this still put the deer down quickly.

[TCLouis]

Congrats on putting one in the freezer.
If I missed it, sorry but what load data/velocity do you get with that load.
Maybe I need to cast and 1/16" HP some 50/50/02 soupcans to try through the 7-08.

[Petrol & Powder]

It does have a generous throat, that bullet base is still in the case neck and it feeds through the magazine slick as glass. That is the alloy I use, I think I would slow it down a bit if I do it again, but maybe not. This wasn't the best shot angle, a broadside would probably have done better, though this still put the deer down quickly.
I wonder what it would do without the hollowpoint at all? Or maybe just a very shallow flat pin instead of a hollowpoint.

[richhodg66]

If I missed it, sorry but what load data/velocity do you get with that load.
Maybe I need to cast and 1/16" HP some 50/50/02 soupcans to try through the 7-08.

This was 30 grains of IMR 3031. I got the data from the RCBS cast bullet manual for their 168 grain bullet. According to their data, should be a little over 1900 FPS.

I've been shooting a lot of the soup cans through this rifle for practice. I figured heavier would be better, but kind of wonder now. Cast properly, that soup can bullet should work fine.

[OnHoPr]

Congrats on the viddles. I don't think that bullet would have loss that much weight if it was a double lunger. Even if you would have hit one or possibly both shoulders you probably would not have found the boollit. The 7x57 is an excellent cartridge IMO. I wanted to nicely bubba build one on a 98 action back in my late teens as customing a mauser back then was the in thing. Never got around to it. I did acquire a 7x57 spanish that was bubbaed in the late 80s that I used for a couple of years before I gave it to a significant others kid of age if he got all Cs or better on his report card. That spanish 7x57 had a 17.5" barrel and seemed fitting for a hardwoods ridge rifle when most shots were near 100 yds, but 200 yd down and/or across the ridge shots could have been common. Something like the Remington model 7. Though, I don't think I would have trusted 275 Rigby loads in it. Back a few years ago I seen one at a gun show and thought that one of those rebored and rechambered to the 9.3x57 would have been fine cast boolits rifle.

[TheGrimReaper]

The 7mm Mauser was used to take all of the most dangerous game in Africa at one point in time

Yes Sir!

[Rick Hodges]

My soupcan mold is from Midsouth and they come in at 135gr. with my alloy PC'd and gaschecked. Too late to work up for this deer season. Should be fun to play with.

[richhodg66]

My soupcan mold is from Midsouth and they come in at 135gr. with my alloy PC'd and gaschecked. Too late to work up for this deer season. Should be fun to play with.

It's a good bullet for what I've done with it. I'd be curious to see how it works on game, I kind of figured it was too light, but after seeing how well this bulle that was only 30 grains heavier penetrated, the soup can might work fine.

[Kosh75287]

The original military loading was a 173gr. FMJ bullet at 2274 or 2300 f/s, which dispatched all manor of animals, the whole story of which, we'll never have. Your 30.0/IMR-3031/165gr. load seems like about an 80% approximation of that, with a better-behaving projectile, so I would be unsurprised at its effect on white tail & similar game! Well done!

I'm not a veteran caster, but I wonder if the addition of 0.5% (or even less) by weight of Arsenic or 1%-2% more Antimony might decrease some of the tendency of the projectile to break into pieces. I'm not QUITE sure of the rationale, but sometimes, dumb moves render "not so dumb" results.

I once "inherited" a big load of "unknown lead alloy" the composition of which was difficult to characterize, and would not always fill the molds at any temperature (mold OR melt). By the time I added enough Tin to fix this, it made bullets that were hard to the point of nearly being brittle. A portly, cigar-smoking, civilian jump-suit wearing old veteran of more shooting competitions than I'LL ever see, overheard my lamentations and said,
"Kid, just drop them things, in a bucket of water, straight from the mold." I looked at him quizzically.
"I thought that doing that would make them harder. Do you mean, like drop them in HOT water, or something?"
He shook his head, slowly and emphatically enough to broadcast cigar ashes in a wide arc in front of him.
"Just a bucket a clean tap water, kid," He said. (I was 23, b.t.w). "It won't make 'em where you can BEND them, but they'll stay together on a steel plate, well enough." Shooting steel was all I was doing

I tried it with 50 of them and loaded them up, thinking that I'd "respected my elders" by so doing, and could so indicate, the next time I saw him. They shot quite well. I asked around about the man who gave me the dubious advice and he was well known. A few shooters rolled their eyes & said the fellow always had some "backwards" idea on fixing a problem. About twice as many people as the detractors, however, said they'd done as I had, followed his advice, and were surprised by the obtained results. The gentleman passed away before I ever got to thank him, but it made me wonder, in the face of all else, if doing the "Sensible" thing isn't working, perhaps going in the other direction is worth pondering.

[JDL]

Congrats on your deer Rich and thanks for the in-depth report. 7x57 is probably my most favorite chambering but, when using cast for hunting, I always default to my .358 Winchester. Your report is making me rethink this and I have the 287308 mould in inventory.

[richhodg66]

The .358 is a good one, have used it with cast on deer myself, but you don't really need bullets that big to deer hunt effectively. The .30s and .32 I've used worked great. Was a little apprehensive about one this small, but if I haven't tagged out during archery, I plan to use this rifle with cast again when the rifle season opens here.

[White Oak]

Congrat On your successful hunt! I think rifles in the 7x57, 7mm-08, and 280 Rem chamberings are perfect rifles for deer size animals. My son and wife each have 7mm-08’s and I have 280 Rem. All of them are very accurate. They have accounted for lot of venison.

[JDL]

The .358 is a good one, have used it with cast on deer myself, but you don't really need bullets that big to deer hunt effectively. The .30s and .32 I've used worked great. Was a little apprehensive about one this small, but if I haven't tagged out during archery, I plan to use this rifle with cast again when the rifle season opens here.

I know the .30's work on deer as the only deer I've killed with cast has been with my .300 Savage. I just want to kill one with my .358 because it is bloodless with cast.:D I'd also like to kill one with my 7.62x39 using cast.;)