Tempted to purchase

[Petrol & Powder]

I was attempting to get a gun shop to lower their price on a revolver to something reasonable and making no progress in that endeavor. I gave up on that effort and was about to walk out when, out of curiosity, I asked to see a 4" S&W model 10-5 in the case.
The S&W was 100% and was either un-fired or had been fired very little. I do not know if it had the box with it. Now I don't need another K-frame but this one was nearly perfect.
They were asking $490 for it. I was already soured from my attempts to negotiate on the other gun and I didn't want to waste more time attempting to negotiate a reasonable price on that Model 10. I thanked them for their time, handed the gun back and walked away.

Now, I rarely have second thoughts about walking away from a potential purchase but this time I did.
I wasn't going to pay $500+ for a model 10 even if it was pristine. However, I would have paid less for it and been happy. I was bitter from the prior failed negotiation and didn't even want to make an offer on the Model 10.

Sellers can ask whatever they want and Buyers can make whatever offer they want. I have no problem with buyers and sellers failing to reach middle ground and walking away. I don't understand how sellers can make money if they NEVER sell their merchandise.

[contender1]

I know many of us feel the same way.
I looked at a gun friday,, and asked the out the door price. Now,, this shop is a good one & very fair. I was given a fair price,, but more than I felt it was worth. The owner asked me what I thought it was worth,, AND before I could reply,,, he told me what he'd put into it. He had put too much in it,, and we agreed he could probably sell it to someone else,, at a price where he could make a little.

You wonder why gun shops can stay in business if they never sell stuff? Well, they DO sell stuff. MANY, MANY people are just not educated on guns.
The very same shop, prior to my discussion on the above gun. A guy came in,, was looking in the case,, and asked about a Ruger semi-auto .22. His question; "Is that a Mark II Target?" The clerk,,, didn't know w/o getting it out. As he was doing so, I casually mentioned it was a MKIV and a Standard model. The customer said rather sharply; "That's not a Standard the barrel is too long!" I calmly said; "Ruger has two variations of barrel length of the Standard." About this time,, the owner walked up, and overheard some of this exchange. When the guy protested again,,, the owner said; You better listen to this guy, he knows more about Rugers than anybody I know!" About that time,, the clerk had the gun out,, showed the guy the tag, with MKIV & Standard" on it.
The guy glared at me,,, and muttered something about owning 2 MKII Standards, and they weren't like that. I calmly replied; "Well, when you own more than a dozen, of all 4 models,, we'll talk."

The moral; Some people will be customers w/o an education & will buy stuff.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't begrudge sellers asking high prices, it's a free market they can do as they please.

And I'm certain that enough customers DO pay those high prices to keep those sellers in business.

What I don't get is sitting on merchandise and holding out for that high price when you could move that item and STILL make a decent profit.
The store I was talking about has a lot of overhead and doesn't appear to move much merchandise. I don't think the seller had too much money in the guns I was looking at, he's too good of a businessman to overpay for products. I think he just wants to hold out for those few high profit margin sales rather than make more sales with less margin. I don't know, maybe that works for him and maybe he has enough people paying the inflated prices to keep him afloat.

What bugs me is I didn't even want to make a second attempt at negotiating for that model 10. I guess I'm more angry at myself for giving up and walking away.

[El Bibliotecario]

Whenever I am tempted to share information with an ignorant gun dealer, I go into the desert and chat with the saguaros. I find them relatively more receptive to new ideas. It's my observation that attempts by one male to enlighten another too often become exercises in one-upsmanship, e.g., ' Ah'm gunna WIN this argument!'

One can always make a lower offer and walk if rebuffed, but acquiring a new weapon should be a pleasant experience, which isn't easy with a antagonistic seller. Mint Model Tens aren't exactly Colt Walkers, and there is a good change of finding another down the road being offered by a more tractable seller.

As for why people tie up capital in merchandise holding out for a high price, Contender1 correctly points out that some vendor's business plan is to sell at a higher price to the ignorant. I also suspect a significant number of vendors are not particularly good businesspersons, and that 'By Gawd Ah'm gunna git my price!" trumps realizing a reasonable profit.

[Wheelguns 1961]

El Bibliotecario, your first paragraph is so true, and the reason that I just choose to not respond 95% of the time. The more I learn about people, the more I like my parrot!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Actually, if you put all of the above posts together, the question is pretty well answered. There are always several prices. What the dealer wants to get, what the customer is willing to pay, what the dealer will actually take, what the item is actually worth. There are about as many variations among dealers as there are among guns. One of my best dealer friends is completely inflexible. If the tag says $500 the price is $500, no matter how long he's known you and how much business you've done with him. Another has the philosophy that if he can make $25 clear profit on the item he'll almost always sell it, because he can roll the rest of the money over into another item and keep the $25 that he otherwise wouldn't have had. Yet another, a newer dealer, prices strictly by the Blue Book of Gun Values. Now days most of my new guns come from the internet using "buy now" prices from volume dealers that charge well below retail, or actual auctions that are priced right.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think what bothers me the most was that I just gave up and walked away without even trying to make an offer.

[Jeffrey]

I think what bothers me the most was that I just gave up and walked away without even trying to make an offer.

There's always tomorrow or next week. If it isn't there when you get there, there will be another one down the road. Make an offer. If he doesn't like it, let him stew on it. Pass by in 10 to 14 days. If it's still there, make another offer: $1 or $5 less. He needs the $ more than you need the gun.

[toallmy]

It wouldn't hurt to let the store owner know how much you would be interested in putting into it , and leave your number , let him run it through his mind a little .

[El Bibliotecario]

I think what bothers me the most was that I just gave up and walked away without even trying to make an offer.

The best way to snub someone--and the hardest to do--is ignoring them and walking away.

[Petrol & Powder]

There's always tomorrow or next week. If it isn't there when you get there, there will be another one down the road. Make an offer. If he doesn't like it, let him stew on it. Pass by in 10 to 14 days. If it's still there, make another offer: $1 or $5 less. He needs the $ more than you need the gun.

I'm not worried about the gun being there. I wasn't going to pay $500 for it.

[RED BEAR]

i don't mind a dealer making a profit . but some are just going to far. i expect to pay more in a shop were i can see and hold a gun. but some in my area charge as much as two hundred dollars over what it goes for on the internet. then try to gouge you on the transfer fee if you don't buy from them. if i get a gun transferred from internet i will always use the dealer for my other needs ( powder primers ect).

[Drm50]

I'm only going to pay upto a certain price for any gun. I don't care what the book says. If I don't get
it at a reasonable price I'm going to walk. Another thing, I don't want some gun expert from left field
putting his nose in while I'm dealing. I don't do it to others and I won't put up with it. I've bought and sold hundreds of guns in my life. I found the best way to deal is keep your mouth shut and don't
act like you are some kind of expert. That way you find out how much the seller knows and whether
he's on the up & up.

[osteodoc08]

I don’t mind supporting my LGS. But I won’t be price gouged, whether actual or my perception. If I’m looking for something new, I’ll price off GB and get an idea of what I could buy it for. I like GB for new current production because I can have just about anything at my fingertips within a few days. I try to give my dealer a chance first.

[bob208]

you set your price if they don't meet it walk away. I have walked for less then $5.

[ShooterAZ]

I think what bothers me the most was that I just gave up and walked away without even trying to make an offer.

If you really wanted it, I think you should have at least made an offer on it. None of us know what he had into it. I'm not necessarily saying a low-ball offer, but offer what you would feel good about paying for it. These revolvers used to be a dime a dozen. In mint condition any more...not so much. I picked a minty nickle plated 10-7 last year for what I felt was a reasonable price, I was able to negotiate what I felt was fair. If the both of you don't want to budge, then it's time to say thanks, but no thanks. You'll never know until an offer is made.

[Petrol & Powder]

If you really wanted it, I think you should have at least made an offer on it. None of us know what he had into it. I'm not necessarily saying a low-ball offer, but offer what you would feel good about paying for it. These revolvers used to be a dime a dozen. In mint condition any more...not so much. I picked a minty nickle plated 10-7 last year for what I felt was a reasonable price, I was able to negotiate what I felt was fair. If the both of you don't want to budge, then it's time to say thanks, but no thanks. You'll never know until an offer is made.

I seriously doubt he had more than $400 in that gun and in all likelihood, considerably less. He's a businessman that makes his living buying and selling guns.

It wasn't the price that got me spun up, he can ask whatever he wants and I get to decide what I'll pay.

It was failed negotiation on a different gun just prior that put me in such a bad mindset that I wasn't even willing to attempt to negotiate on the second gun. I guess I'm more mad at myself than anything.

An earlier poster mentioned a gun shop that didn't negotiate at all. The asking price is the selling price. I'm fine with that too as long as that's the rule. I can look at the gun and the price and know instantly if I'm willing to pay that price.

I don't get upset when I'm selling something and a potential buyer makes a low offer. It doesn't insult me and we'll either come to an agreement or not. It's no big deal, that's how that works. It's the negotiations where one party is just flat out unreasonable that annoy me.

In any event, I got soured on the whole experience and I shouldn't have. I don't know if he would have come down significantly on that S&W and I'll never know. But I am a bit mad at myself for not even seeing if a deal was possible.

[lar45]

If it's something that you really really want, then go back and deal on it.
I'm with you on not wanting to pay way too much.
when I was in the Navy stationed in Alameda CA, I was shopping for a new 44mag and tried a gunshop in San Francisco, they had a nice stainless Super Black Hawk that I thought was priced way too high, so after looking at it, I offered a more reasonable price. The guy calls over to his buddy about my offering something other than the price and they both laughed at me. So I took my stack of 100's out of my pocket, said that in Idaho where I was from, that that was a normal part of the transaction. I put my money back into my pocket and never went back. I found another shop that was more than willing to deal at a fair price and spent my money there. The worst part was having to wait the 10 business days to go shoot it :)

[wv109323]

I think $500 was well over what I would pay. I looked a model 15 that was 95-97%. The marked price was $469 and the guy said he would deal with me on that price. I just was not interested in a 4 inch barrel.
Last year I bought a 686 no dash that I thought was unfired in the box. It came with a set of Crimson Trace grips. I paid 625 plus tax. I did come to the conclusion that the pistol had been fired after I examined it at home.

[charlie b]

FWIW, this applies to ALL sellers, not just guns.

It really does not matter what a dealers puts as a price on an item of any type. They may think it is worth more, they might just want to get as much as they can, they might have paid too much for it, etc.

As to being on the shelf for a while, you don't know what the guy's expenses are or his experience in selling stuff. Maybe he has good luck sitting on something until it sells. Some folks will set a price and sit on it for years. When inflation finally matches their initial price and it sells and they proclaim that they made so much profit on it. Not smart but it makes them feel good.

I am one of those who won't negotiate on an item if I already have a price set. I like to set a price so it will sell in a time frame I want. Maybe it is a higher price and will take a year to sell (or it will sell at a certain time of year). Or, I want to sell it fast so I lower the price. Lots of folks will get upset if I won't deal with them. I just smile and tell them good day.

[9.3X62AL]

I guess some people enjoy having their teeth drilled when buying used firearms. I am not among them. In a retail shop, an item needs to have a price marked plainly. When an item at a shop or gun show has no price marked, I assume "going in" that I am about to get bent over--though I have gotten a few surprises over the years. Caveat emptor--semper!

[MrWolf]

You are letting someone else ruin your day. Like when driving, you can't control what the idiot in the other car is doing. I try to not let others dictate my day. I said try...

[Petrol & Powder]

You are letting someone else ruin your day. Like when driving, you can't control what the idiot in the other car is doing. I try to not let others dictate my day. I said try...

You're absolutely correct.

[Ed K]

We used to go round and round on pricing of a particular firearm among each other on these type forums due to regional pricing variations, etc. Nowadays the Internet has changed most all of that. What I see locally is pretty much what I see on Gunbroker - perhaps minus the transfer fees and shipping. On the 'net and locally there are a lot of used police trade model 10s for $350-375. Maybe that price was a little high but it must be worth all of $450-475. As has been mentioned pristine S&Ws from the last century are not all that common. How bad do you want it?

[Petrol & Powder]

We used to go round and round on pricing of a particular firearm among each other on these type forums due to regional pricing variations, etc. Nowadays the Internet has changed most all of that. What I see locally is pretty much what I see on Gunbroker - perhaps minus the transfer fees and shipping. On the 'net and locally there are a lot of used police trade model 10s for $350-375. Maybe that price was a little high but it must be worth all of $450-475. As has been mentioned pristine S&Ws from the last century are not all that common. How bad do you want it?

It's not about the price or the gun.

It's that I became frustrated after the first failed negotiation and didn't even make a second attempt. I'm mad at myself.

I negotiated on the first gun (a Ruger) and felt the seller wasn't even trying to be reasonable. We got within $40 and they were just playing games (let me go ask the boss and he would walk to the back of the store). I let the child like actions of another make me mad.
It was a lack of self control on my part.

Now, as for the price itself - There wasn't anything special about that Model 10 other than the fact that it appeared to be in excellent condition. It was a 4", blued steel, K-frame with fixed sights. Smith & Wesson made a bazillon of them - it's not even remotely rare. With a reasonable seller we could have reached an agreement that we could both live with but I was so annoyed with that child by that time that I wasn't even going to attempt to reach a deal. And I don't need another 38 Special K-frame.

Mr. Wolf was correct, I let someone else ruin my day.

[Tackleberry41]

I will pay a fair price, won't stand there trying to talk them down or sweeten the deal.

But yes one does wonder how some places stay open. Someone I knew worked at a gun range, probably why it stayed open. Was not gun sales. He would go weeks and not sell a single gun, it was the jacked up prices. As if 'suggested retail' is what you can actually going to work. Even his employee discount would not bring gun into reasonable price range. Pretty bad when a guy at a gun shop shops at another one when they are looking for a gun.

Then he moved to a different place, not much different. Used guns for new prices, so sat in racks forever. Holding out for that one sucker with lots of cash and no brains. He had a S&W M&P compact I was interested in, but not for what he wanted. Had been in the case over a year, and was still there 2 years after I offered to buy it. But was the same shop who gave $250 trade on a bubbaed Mosin, just waiting on some chump. 6 mo later sold it to me for $50.

Im fortunate shop me has very fair prices and always treats you fair, why I buy so much from them, so they will stay open.

[JoeJames]

I still remember a gun show in Little Rock about 25 years ago. A buddy and I were talking to a dealer at his table, and kind of idly looking at his revolvers; all used with price tags on them. Neither of us had made an offer.

This young fellow walks up to the table, looked at a particular Smith and its tag; told the dealer he'd take it. He did not do any negotiating; just handed the dealer the cash money. We were all in a state of shock.

[Ed K]

I don't need another 38 Special K-frame.

Well, that about says it all... I do understand your point though: this was not a battle with the dealer but rather in your own mind - I've been there.

[Petrol & Powder]

Well, that about says it all... I do understand your point though: this was not a battle with the dealer but rather in your own mind - I've been there.
yep, pretty much

[ShooterAZ]

Don't argue with yourself, you'll never win...lol