Please help with ideas on making my Savage 99 a shooter

[pertnear]

I finally found & bought the rifle I've been obsessing on for the last 50 years. It is a Savage 99 in .250-3000 that had been in a gun safe for 25+ years & had only 3 boxes of ammo through it (as the story goes)! From the looks & condition of the rifle that story holds true - it looks like it just came out of the factory packing box! The collector's value would be off the charts except the owner had it drilled & tapped for a scope & the steel butt plate was removed & a Pachmayr pad install. Both modifications look professionally done by a gunsmith. The modifications didn't bother a bit as I need a scope these days & I intend to hunt with the little rifle. You see, I shot my first deer with a 99 in .250 Savage when I was 12 years old sitting in a tree with my dad. My brother had done the same with that old 99 also. Unfortunately, early on, the rifle was stolen but it's memory has remained in my head unforgotten.

I remember the ammo I hunted with was Winchester 100 gr Silvertips in a yellow box with a big red "X" on it. The rifle had a Redfield receiver peep sight & I guess it was as accurate as you could hold that bead. The 100 gr bullet was considered the best weight for deer being the heaviest you could buy at the time.

I finally got a scope mounted on my new rifle & off to the range. I had some factory Hornady 100 gr ammo & some 100 gr reloads (H322 at minimum book starting charge). To my disappointment, the rifle shot patterns instead of groups. I thought the scope was bad or the mount was loose, so I check everything & mounted a different scope that was known to be good. The results were the same.

According to the serial number, the rifle was manufactured in 1949 or 1950. I've read that the rifling twist changed in the early Savage 99's so perhaps a lighter bullet might help. Perhaps my rifle has the "varmint" twist(?) So the dilemma is what lighter bullet should I try that is worthy of deer hunting? I have tuned many bolt guns but the two-piece 99 stock doesn't point to much tuning.

Any comments or suggestions to help my lil' .250 shoot a 2" group instead of a 5" pattern would be most appreciated!

TIA..

[Norske]

1. Remove the for-end. That part that that extends into the receiver must not bind. Sand down if needed.
2. When shooting from sandbags or other firm rest, try setting the receiver on the bag instead of the fore-end. it works with my M99 300 Savage.
3. Using a cleaning rod and marker, determine the barrel twist rate. Early barrels often have 1 turn in 14" twist and usually don't spin a bullet the length of a 100 gr fast enough. Use 87 gr bullets if it won't even stabilize round nose 100 gr bullets. Later barrels have a 1 in 10" twist, so stabilize 100 gr bullets very well.
4. Be careful of reloading data that was developed with a bolt action rifle or universal receiver. The 99 is strong, but not as strong as those actions. There will be flex and case stretch marks with maximum data from bolt actions. My 99 300 Savage reloads will stretch cases with 44 grains of IMR 4064 and 150 gr bullet. But there is no stretching with 40 grains of that powder/bullet combo.

[Bent Ramrod]

Can you get a screwdriver past the recoil pad to make sure the buttstock is screwed down tight to the action?

My 99 is an old wreck originally in .30-30 which I had relined to .25-35. When I took the forend off, I found a strip of shoelace in the barrel channel. I figured if somebody had put it in there, and left it, it must have improved something, likely the accuracy. It’s still in there, and the rifle shoots well.

[Texas by God]

Although my wifes' custom Sako .250 Savage has a 10" twist, her deer bullet is the 87 gr Speer HotCor right at 3000 fps. It hasn't failed to kill deer dead as disco. Try the light ones- you know we don't need no stinking hundred grains in Texas[emoji16]

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[ole_270]

That old a rifle will have a 1-14 twist, thay changed to 1-10 around 1960 or so. Mine works great with the 87 Speer Hot Core and well under 2" with the 100 Hot Core. Most 100 gr bullets will be too long to work in the slow twist, and some 87 and 90 gr bullets will also be too long. Especially those with the plastic tips. I read somewhere that bullets under .95" will work best with the 1-14 twist. Also remember that every one of these rifles are an individual. The twist was set by hand at the factory and varied from one setup to another. One writer stated that he'd seen twists vary from 1-13 to 1-15 on different runs of 250-3000 barrels.
I've talken several deer with the 87 Hot Core, it's whats on deck for this coming deer season after being neglected in the back of the safe for too long.

[reivertom]

You will figure it out. The modern bullets in the 80+ grain range are far better than the old standby bullets from years ago. You can get good performance in lighter bullets in deer sized game than when that gun was new. I like Nozler partitions and ballistic tip hunters. I have a 99F in .243 and I put small "O" rings between my fore grip and the screw stud on the barrel so it wouldn't be pressed against the metal. It seemed to help tighten the groups. The amount of tightness on the buttstock screw can affect things too, so if you take it apart, check your POI.. You might check the barrel crown with a magnifying glass and make sure it hasn't been damaged or dinged up. I have a sporterized m1917 rifle that was shooting a pattern instead of a group. I had my buddy hit it with his 30cal. crowning tool, and it brought the groups down to 1 1/4 MOA, in a 100 year old rifle.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I would start with a shorter bullet as suggested due to the slow twist of earlier 250's. Next I put a layer or two of business card under barrel before and behind fore end screw. Some shoot better by placing a shim between the lower tang and stock where the stock bolt enters the tang. This removes pressure from the the slender sides and top tang against the receiver, prevents that common top tang crack also. Careful smoothing of the contact surfaces between 'hammer' and sear will just improve your ability to accurately shoot it. That is just a beginning, Accurizing the Factory Rifle by M L Mcpherson covers the 99 with other advice. I like the 'shooter' 99's. Nobody screaming YOU RUINED IT with a scope, recoil pad, whatever. Its your rifle, do what you need to enjoy it. They really aren't hard to work on. A really good cleaning, getting years of grunge, hardened oil, copper, whatever can help a lot.

[Texas by God]

These were meant for the slow twist I believe. They are pre 1972 because they weren't in that first Remington catalog I read every day. The price tag reads $3.53!
I gladly paid the asking price of $40 for two boxes of round nose and two boxes of 100 gr psp corlokts. 5 years ago and I still shoot only reloads. They are too cool to shoot. ALMOST.
You apparently forgot pics...... I'll post them if you want. The straight grip 99A and 1899A are my favorite- what is your new one?
Thomashttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180930/72cdc1656eea9e40f6611ee0e240a0a4.jpg

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[pertnear]

Thank you everyone for your great suggestions. Midway has some Speer 87 gr bullets shipped my way. In the process of taking these pictures I couldn't get a good detail of the crown. I looked it over real close & it looks great & sharp. As a matter of fact all the bluing on the muzzle end is still intact! Perhaps the rifle has never been cleaned(?) That might be an accuracy issue also.
228100

228098 228103 228104
228101 228102 228106

[Texas by God]

That is gorgeous. Perhaps cure the overscoped thing with a vintage Weaver??? Just kidding��

[pertnear]

That is gorgeous. Perhaps cure the overscoped thing with a vintage Weaver??? Just kidding��
The scope is temporary & is what I have on hand as a spare. I like your thinking though....:-D

[2152hq]

I'd next suspect the scope mounts if you can absolutely rule out the 'scope itself.

Since the mounting is after market applied, there's no way in knowing how well & accurately it was done.
It's not a simple matter of drilling and tapping a bunch of holes. Might even be a few extra under the mount.

Have you removed the scope mt base?
If not I'd take it right off and see if there are any shims under it in attempts to level it. Are the screws a good fit in the holes. Were they tight! in their respective holes,,Do the rings lock solidly in the base.

There might be a good reason it was only shot a few times after scoping it those many years ago then stashing it away never to be used again.

The rifle has definetly had some work done on it.
The bolt has been jeweled,,so at least everything has been disassembled from it to get that bolt out of the rifle.
Not that that operation necessarily effects accuracy, but re-assembly means re-tightening the butt stock back into place as already mentioned and that can. Also some misguided person may have altered the interface betw the lever and frame boss where they lock in order to slick it up as per a couple of articles in the gun rags in the 60's 70's. Lots of things could have been done to it.
The stock may be tight as far as bolting to the frame, but bedding may be less than perfect which will effect accuracy.

Might sound silly,,but especially considering the caliber, check the chamber and especially the throat in the bore. You'll need a bore mirror for this in the 99 but it's worth a look. A nice looking rifle but it could have a burned out throat and it's something you'll never see from the muzzle.
Or it could have a lengthened throat. Done at someones request in their search for accuracy with the 1-14 twist.
A chamber cast will also show the above 2 conditions.

If you have the open rear bbl sight,,or even one that'll do as a replacement for a test,,I'd put it in place and leave the scope and mounts off. Then try the rifle with the iron sights from a solid rest at say 25yrds or so.
It will rule in or out the scope & mount issue if the groups are good or scattered. Most people can shoot pretty good rifle groups from a rest at 25yrds.
Or shoot a test group first at 25yrds with the scope in place and then take it off and use the iron sites and compare.
Don't worry where the group falls,,just the group size.

If that can be rules out,,as well as any bbl issue including a loose bbl (it's happened before),,then take alook at bedding on the rifle. Especially the forend and some experimentation with pressure points, ect.

Just some thoughts..

[pertnear]

I'd next suspect the scope mounts if you can absolutely rule out the 'scope itself.

Since the mounting is after market applied, there's no way in knowing how well & accurately it was done.
It's not a simple matter of drilling and tapping a bunch of holes. Might even be a few extra under the mount.

Have you removed the scope mt base?
If not I'd take it right off and see if there are any shims under it in attempts to level it. Are the screws a good fit in the holes. Were they tight! in their respective holes,,Do the rings lock solidly in the base.

There might be a good reason it was only shot a few times after scoping it those many years ago then stashing it away never to be used again.

The rifle has definetly had some work done on it.
The bolt has been jeweled,,so at least everything has been disassembled from it to get that bolt out of the rifle.
Not that that operation necessarily effects accuracy, but re-assembly means re-tightening the butt stock back into place as already mentioned and that can. Also some misguided person may have altered the interface betw the lever and frame boss where they lock in order to slick it up as per a couple of articles in the gun rags in the 60's 70's. Lots of things could have been done to it.
The stock may be tight as far as bolting to the frame, but bedding may be less than perfect which will effect accuracy.

Might sound silly,,but especially considering the caliber, check the chamber and especially the throat in the bore. You'll need a bore mirror for this in the 99 but it's worth a look. A nice looking rifle but it could have a burned out throat and it's something you'll never see from the muzzle.
Or it could have a lengthened throat. Done at someones request in their search for accuracy with the 1-14 twist.
A chamber cast will also show the above 2 conditions.

If you have the open rear bbl sight,,or even one that'll do as a replacement for a test,,I'd put it in place and leave the scope and mounts off. Then try the rifle with the iron sights from a solid rest at say 25yrds or so.
It will rule in or out the scope & mount issue if the groups are good or scattered. Most people can shoot pretty good rifle groups from a rest at 25yrds.
Or shoot a test group first at 25yrds with the scope in place and then take it off and use the iron sites and compare.
Don't worry where the group falls,,just the group size.

If that can be rules out,,as well as any bbl issue including a loose bbl (it's happened before),,then take alook at bedding on the rifle. Especially the forend and some experimentation with pressure points, ect.

Just some thoughts..
When I bought the rifle it did not come with rings or base. The mounting holes had plug screws. It might be hard to tell, but it looked like it never had a scope base on it. I'm the guy that installed the base, rings & scope. I used a torque wrench & set all screws to spec while coated with loctite. The scope has been a known entity that is temporarily parked while I re-stock a Sako .22-250. Things change unexpectedly, but that scope has always been dead-on & tracked perfectly so I have some confidence in it.

I had to remove the rear sight to mount the scope, but I like your idea of eliminating the scope as a possible issue. I'll definitely try that. I'll also try to look at the throat if I can get a hold of a bore-scope. From Norske's suggestion, I'm thinking about trying to shoot with the forend removed & have the rifle resting on the receiver - I think the recoil is light enough so that would be doable without too much trouble.

[Hanshi]

All the advice above is excellent. My 99 .250-3000 is a bit younger than yours and handles 100 grain bullets very well. I reload with 4320 to about factory velocities and accuracy is excellent. I also recommend you try RN 100 grains bullets. Their shorter length may work out as you wish. And there's nothing wrong with 87 grain bullets for deer.

[Blackwater]

If you want accuracy from a rifle with a 2-pc. stock, like the M99, it's important to be SURE the buttstock and forend fit the receiver with NO PLAY. Some like to fully bed the barrel as well, but that's something that you have to play with, really, and try. Sometimes again and again until you get it just like you want it. Bedding, in addition to the above recommendations, will always be a big part of a rifle's consistent accuracy.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I like a higher power, heavier scope for load development, though I don't hunt them. A factory jeweled bolt is not uncommon on Savage 99's, I have several Featherweights and a 99M .284 that have the factory jeweled bolt. Is your rifle factory drilled and tapped. The factory drilled rifles have the Savage 99 stamped on the side of the receiver below where the scope base sits. If the screw holes are in the Savage 99 stamping top center, then the dill/tap was done after leaving factory. The 99's receiver contours can vary greatly, sometimes causing the 'Redfield' style one piece base to flex when the screw sare tightened. I check the by tightening only the front 2 screws - looking/feeling for a gap under the rear of the base, then loosening the front screws and tightening only the rear screw, again checking for space under the front screws, tightening all 3 screws can flex or twist the base, even with proper torque. I usually end up bedding the one piece scope bases for 99's with JB Weld as a filler. Lots of a release compound on the screws and on the rifle before doing this of course. Probably would not affect accuracy, but does align scopes with rings better. Another possibility is using Burris Signature Rings with the plastic inserts to help align the scope with the rifle bore.

[pertnear]

Good advice MostlyLeverGuns, I'll check the fit when I take the scope back off. The top of the receiver was drilled & tapped right through the Savage logo so it was definitely done after factory. According to the seller, he believed that the sling swivels were an option provided by the original dealer which may indicate the drilling, tapping & pad were part of a package also. I don't know if that was common for LGS or not back in 1949 or 1950(?)

[ole_270]

Don't know what powders you have in stock, but I've lucked into a pair of loads that I can shoot interchangeably with no scope changes . I use the 87 Speer TNT hp over Ramshot Big Game for varmints and the 87 Hot Core over RL-15 for deer. They impact within half an inch of one another at 100 yards. Haven't got around to trying both bullets with the same powder yet. The Sierra 75 hp over Varget is close enough to use as well. When I switch to the 100 Hot Core I have to move the scope several inches, that's why I very seldom use this one.
One thing with the two piece stock, be very careful to place the forend on the front rest in the same position for each shot or you'll get bigger groups. I try to get as close to the receiver as I can with mine. I've floated the forend as explained in the ML McPherson book mentioned above. It will really stretch out your vertical dispersion if you move the forend for and aft on the front rest.

[Good Cheer]

My first deer at 15 was over by Marble Falls with Dad's .300, "Ol' Never Miss".
:drinks:

Congrads on finding a great piece.

[pertnear]

My first deer at 15 was over by Marble Falls with Dad's .300, "Ol' Never Miss".
:drinks:

Congrads on finding a great piece.

When I was a kid, at the same time I was hunting with my little 99, I had an uncle that hunted with his 99 in .300 Savage. His had a Weaver K4 on it, IIRC (could have been a 2-1/2X but I know it was a Weaver for sure). I was so envious of that scope! He kept his rifle immaculate & I don't remember him ever missing a deer with it.

Interesting, I don't remember ever really zeroing my original 99 in with that Redfield peep-sight. If I did, it probably was at 25 yards on a pie plate. Didn't want to waste much factory ammo back then.

Fast forward now 54 years & I'm trying to coax a 2" group at 100 yards out of a rifle made a year before I was born! As to the twist issues, I've been looking everywhere for 100 gr .257 RN bullets for reloading. They seem to be as scarce as Hillary's emails. I do have some vintage 100 gr factory loads as keep-sakes. IIRC my original 100 gr Super-X Silver tips were pointed & I believe I still have a partial box somewhere.

228400

I apologize if I've been going too far down memory lane!

Thanks for everyone's help & I hope to get some testing in this coming week. I have a lot of possibilities. I'll keep you posted...:p

[Duckiller]

I would 75 or 87 gr bullets. The gun was built to shoot 87gr bullets at 3000fps. YOOUR GUN MAY NOT STABILIZE 100GR BULLETS. WORTH A TRY. GOOD LUCK I HAVE ONE MADE IN THE 1920S AND SHOOT 75GR BULLETS IN IT . A FUN GUN.

[Texas by God]

I sent you a pm.

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[reivertom]

I left out something. My '65 model 99F had obviously never been cleaned well since new. I had to use a copper fouling remover solution about 7 times before the patches started to come out other than black and blue slime. I used Sweet's 7.62 and Tetra brands over and over, soaking the bore well, running a bronze brush through a few times, and letting them sit for 20 minutes between cleanups. After a whole evening of this, the bore was clean...the first time since 1965. My groups went down very nicely by just cleaning the copper out.

[Patrolman]

I agree with the copper fouling, I had one that took two day of cleaning to get all of the copper out. I did shoot much better after that.

[pertnear]

Here is a quick update. Hunting season came up fast & unfortunately I also had some recent flood damage to my home. Everything went on the back-burner including the Savage 99 project. But yesterday I needed to make a quick trip to the range to check a rifle & I had enough time to cobble together 10 rounds of .250 Savage ammo with some Speer 87gr bullets to try. The first 2 bullets were on paper & touching at 50 yards. I cranked the crosshairs over to the bullet holes & moved to 100 yards. Next 3 rounds were 2" high & 3" right, but the 3 shot group was 1-1/2"! I used the other rounds to fine tune the POI to the bullseye. Who knows, I may get to try the little gun on a deer or hog yet this season.

Thanks to all for the suggestions & I have plenty more experimenting planned. I haven't even taken the forend off yet. Special thanks to Texas-by-God for some 100 gr Rem RN he sent for me to try. I'll keep everyone posted on my results & what I find out. :2_high5:

[Pioneer2]

All Savage 99's I've owned were capable of 1/2-1" groups at 100 yards.Try a business card cut to fit under the forend tip and play with the tension on the forend screw.I glass bedded just the last inch of the tip. Use 87gr Speer which has a bonded core and kills deer just fine with 34.5gr of IMR 4895 @ 2957 fps or if you must 100gr Speer [shortest ogive in that weight for 1-14 twist] on top of 30gr of IMR3031 for 2650 fps.If these won't shoot sell the gun.Ken Waters Pet Loads .FL size 22-250 brass as it's always available if need be.Good luck.

[Drm50]

This is interesting thread for me. I just got a 99Sav in 250/3000 a few months ago. OPs story could
be mine. I wanted one for same reasons, early hunting with a 99 carbine in 350/3000. Mine didn't
come out of a safe. It was in a case in a closet for many years. Same deal mine has been D&Ted for
scope and sling studs installed. Came with Weaver pivots & 4x scope and some 100gr factory ammo.
This rifle is a 1950, 99EG. When I was a kid we used 100gr also with reciver sight. I haven't had a lot
of time either so I'm not done with load developement. Not being a 99expert I started with several
100gr spitzers/ IMR 4895, had K10 on it for grouping tests. Got 2" to 2/34" groups at 100yds. Then
tried Hornady 100gr RNs and rifle will shot into 1". I am going to work with powder charges to see if
this can be improved. Since rifle is for deer I would like to stick with 100gr bullet. I have plenty of
lighter bullets that I used in 25/06 & 257R if I wanted to step down. I had my heart set on a carbine
model like I had as a kid but 99s are not common in this area and a nice one starts at $1K, and they
are usually 300Sav or 303Sav. The 250/3000s are scarce. The newer model with tang safety are more often seen. They aren't the gun of the older models. I'm keeping this one unless a carbine
comes down the road. I've had several 300s & 303s and all the ones I had weren't target guns but
shot as well and better than most repeating deer rifles. I have shot deer with 300sav but not 303sav
I'm sure it will kill them as dead as a 30/30. Another rifle that was suppose to have been made in
limited numbers for 250/3000 was m81 Rem. I have never seen one yet.

[reivertom]

pertnear....sounds like you hit a homer first time up to bat. With a few more range trips you'll be stacking them up.

[pertnear]

Thanks reivertom, I definitely have a fondness for the cartridge & the rifle. I hope you are right & I'm very encouraged now!

BTW: I like the K4 scope idea for the rifle. These days I like a little more power. Perhaps a nice 2x-7x maybe in order or is that too sacrilegious? :lol:

[Pioneer2]

A straight 6X Leupold if you must as to not throw off the guns balance and still be able to pick up running game.