Winchester 1894 lever sticking

[EMR]

I recently picked up a ‘61 1894 in 30-30. The problem I have is that when I fully depress the lever then take my fingers off the lever, the lever still depresses that little protruding pin and I can still pull the trigger to drop the hammer. I have to give the lever a little nudge to release that pin and reset.

I disassembled most of the receiver and gave things a good scrubbing and poked around a bit, but the problem still persists. Anyone have any idea what i should look into?

Thanks!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180925/efebd07af670f37b29914941172ec726.jpg

[pietro]

.

I would remove the buttstock & drop the lever before slowly manipulating the lever safety to find out where it's binding.

Once upon a time, I ran across a Winchester 94 who's issues stemmed from a slightly bent pivot pin - which I replaced with the shank of the proper sized drill bit, ground to length (they're very hard).

.

.

[john.k]

There is a case pusher /ejector in the front of the bolt that has a lot of spring pressure tending to open the bolt ,and so open the lever a bit,releasing the pin.............check to see if the spring is frozen or broken........Also the flat hammer spring actions can have the spring go sideways to foul the wood,and cause binding.....Dont think tat is your problem though......

[HawkCreek]

Remove the lower tang and take it completely apart. The spring might not be binding at all it may have simply been bent to make it lighter. I did that very thing on my new 1873 (it's a repro not an original), ended up going just a touch to far and now the lever holds the safety up same as yours.

[EMR]

.

I would remove the buttstock & drop the lever before slowly manipulating the lever safety to find out where it's binding.

Once upon a time, I ran across a Winchester 94 who's issues stemmed from a slightly bent pivot pin - which I replaced with the shank of the proper sized drill bit, ground to length (they're very hard).

.

.
Removing the stock definitely helped me visualize how it all works. Although I don’t believe it’s the lever safety that’s binding. The lever safety seems to swivel freely.


There is a case pusher /ejector in the front of the bolt that has a lot of spring pressure tending to open the bolt ,and so open the lever a bit,releasing the pin.............check to see if the spring is frozen or broken........Also the flat hammer spring actions can have the spring go sideways to foul the wood,and cause binding.....Dont think tat is your problem though......

I had a close look at the bolt and the relationship between all the other parts. Spring seems to be functional. The best theory I’ve come up with is this: when I close the action completely via the finger lever, there’s a spring backed wedge in the back of the link that engages into the front of the lower tang. This keeps the action firmly closed and keeps the lever safety pressed in. Once the action is closed, the finger lever is firm and can’t get off the lever safety. Does that make sense? Here’s a pic of what I’m referring to

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180926/98d588c22d9bdbab086915164bb7977a.jpg


Remove the lower tang and take it completely apart. The spring might not be binding at all it may have simply been bent to make it lighter. I did that very thing on my new 1873 (it's a repro not an original), ended up going just a touch to far and now the lever holds the safety up same as yours.

I tried this approach and actually ended up bending the spring a bit to increase the resistance against the lever safety. Unfortunately, it didn’t resolve the issue. The button itself is quite firm now!

[indian joe]

Remove the lower tang and take it completely apart. The spring might not be binding at all it may have simply been bent to make it lighter. I did that very thing on my new 1873 (it's a repro not an original), ended up going just a touch to far and now the lever holds the safety up same as yours.

Maybe I have misread all this but -- wheres the problem? - so long as the lever is closed (action locked up) when the safety button is depressed and the button prevents trigger release as soon as the lever commences its travel to open the action ...........

[EMR]

Maybe I have misread all this but -- wheres the problem? - so long as the lever is closed (action locked up) when the safety button is depressed and the button prevents trigger release as soon as the lever commences its travel to open the action ...........
The problem is that once I close the action and let go of the finger lever, I can still drop the hammer by pulling the trigger without squeezing the finger lever.

[Texas by God]

I have seen this when someone peened the lower tang shelf because the lever was popping open at random. It took careful use of a punch and polishing the lever plunger to get the balance back.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[pietro]

The problem is that once I close the action and let go of the finger lever, I can still drop the hammer by pulling the trigger without squeezing the finger lever.




That means that the upper section of the lever safety is not engaging the hammer when the lever is opened, for whatever reason (a bent or worn/broken off upper section).

.

[indian joe]

The problem is that once I close the action and let go of the finger lever, I can still drop the hammer by pulling the trigger without squeezing the finger lever.

ok I think I am gettin it ------on my 94(top eject no safeties) ...need to hold the lever up agin the tang which releases the trigger block -- let it go the lever moves down slightly and the trigger block engages - I call that good (really safe, if you not holdin the lever shut it will not fire) but I bet there a lot of blokes scared there huntin buddies half to death in the woods because they relied on that safety factor and carried loaded and cocked in pursuit of bambi an it went bang cuz that little block gadget got outta sync! - my 66 and 76 Uberti the lever is held agin the tang by spring pressure which I call way better than good if you operatin it but not as safe to carry

[EMR]

ok I think I am gettin it ------on my 94(top eject no safeties) ...need to hold the lever up agin the tang which releases the trigger block -- let it go the lever moves down slightly and the trigger block engages - I call that good (really safe, if you not holdin the lever shut it will not fire) but I bet there a lot of blokes scared there huntin buddies half to death in the woods because they relied on that safety factor and carried loaded and cocked in pursuit of bambi an it went bang cuz that little block gadget got outta sync! - my 66 and 76 Uberti the lever is held agin the tang by spring pressure which I call way better than good if you operatin it but not as safe to carry

That pretty much sums it up. This particular gun is a range only piece so the issue itself isn’t a huge thing. I just like my stuff to work as designed, is all.

[EMR]

I have seen this when someone peened the lower tang shelf because the lever was popping open at random. It took careful use of a punch and polishing the lever plunger to get the balance back.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I have a suspicion that this is what I need to look into. But I think that might be more trouble than it’s worth. I may just leave it as-is

[EMR]

That means that the upper section of the lever safety is not engaging the hammer when the lever is opened, for whatever reason (a bent or worn/broken off upper section).

.

I’m not sure that I follow you. The lever safety on this particular piece consisted of a pivot on one end, the little cylinder that engages the finger lever and on the other end a tab that blocks the trigger movement. The only part on this gun that engages the hammer is the sear itself. Unless I’m mislabeling something and getting confused? Which is entirely 100% possible [emoji23]

[indian joe]

I’m not sure that I follow you. The lever safety on this particular piece consisted of a pivot on one end, the little cylinder that engages the finger lever and on the other end a tab that blocks the trigger movement. The only part on this gun that engages the hammer is the sear itself. Unless I’m mislabeling something and getting confused? Which is entirely 100% possible [emoji23]

You got it right I think - this works by blocking the trigger from moving rearwards.

[John Taylor]

Normally there is a bit of play in the lever when it is closed. The little spring loaded plunger that holds it closed leave a little room for movement which allows the lever to drop enough for the trigger block to engage. If the lever was ever forced closed it could have been bent just enough to take out the slop. Had a Marlin in last week with a bent lever from someone forcing it closed. Could have been caused by dirt in the chamber or improperly sized reload. Just a thought but there are many things that could be causing the problem. May need to disassemble the whole action to find the problem.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=John Taylor;4465439]Normally there is a bit of play in the lever when it is closed. The little spring loaded plunger that holds it closed leave a little room for movement which allows the lever to drop enough for the trigger block to engage.

Exactly how mine works

[EMR]

Normally there is a bit of play in the lever when it is closed......


[QUOTE=John Taylor;4465439]Normally there is a bit of play in the lever when it is closed. The little spring loaded plunger that holds it closed leave a little room for movement which allows the lever to drop enough for the trigger block to engage.

Exactly how mine works

I really believe that this is my problem. There is zero play in the lever when the action is fully closed. I suppose it’s possible the lever is bent. Do you guys think it would be worth it to compare to the lever on my newer (90’s era) Win 1894AE?

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=indian joe;4465458]

I really believe that this is my problem. There is zero play in the lever when the action is fully closed. I suppose it’s possible the lever is bent. Do you guys think it would be worth it to compare to the lever on my newer (90’s era) Win 1894AE?

Lets go back to the basic question here - does the trigger block engage when you move the lever down the first little bit ? Yes or No ??
If that is yes then you dont have a problem!!!
If the trigger block has not engaged before the bolt starts to move then yes you do got a (potential) problem
Even more so I think you are really lucky that you got one that works how they should have been built (didnt say were - said shoulda been) - my 94 has always bugged me that I have to squeeze the lever shut to fire it - release the lever - it moves a tad down without the locking bolt moving AT ALL and the trigger block is fully engaged well before the bolt starts to move

[EMR]

[QUOTE=EMR;4465575]

Lets go back to the basic question here - does the trigger block engage when you move the lever down the first little bit ? Yes or No ??
If that is yes then you dont have a problem!!!
If the trigger block has not engaged before the bolt starts to move then yes you do got a (potential) problem
Even more so I think you are really lucky that you got one that works how they should have been built (didnt say were - said shoulda been) - my 94 has always bugged me that I have to squeeze the lever shut to fire it - release the lever - it moves a tad down without the locking bolt moving AT ALL and the trigger block is fully engaged well before the bolt starts to move

Yes.

But there is no “moving the lever down the first little bit”. Check out the photo below: the lever closes freely until this point. Then there’s firm resistance all the way until the lever presses that trigger safety on its own.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180928/24c131f99604b982270592d951619a9c.jpg

I see what you’re saying about it not really being a bad thing. And I suppose it isn’t. But I just prefer to have my things work as they were designed. So if I can fix it easily I’d like to.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=EMR;4465876][QUOTE=indian joe;4465735]

Yes.

But there is no “moving the lever down the first little bit”. Check out the photo below: the lever closes freely until this point. Then there’s firm resistance all the way until the lever presses that trigger safety on its own.

Yeah that "firm resistance" is normal - thats the locking lug engaging the back of the bolt - and the ejector spring pressure is part of the firmness you feel - bolt has to push forward against that - watch the bolt /lug engagement as you close the lever slow - if your lever snaps shut against the tang and stays there - I bet that is how jonathan browning meant it to work when he designed it - my question was - does the trigger block engage as you slowly move the lever away from the tang - you said yes - you already checked the trigger block spring

- if that trigger block is functioning correctly and the locking bolt is fully home when the lever is closed - then anything you do to "fix" this gun I would regard as detrimental to its good function!
My opinion (we all have em) is the trigger block is there to prevent the gun firing out of battery (partly closed) as it is cycled, it is not there to make it safe to carry loaded and cocked. If you need to go one up the spout they have a half cock notch on the hammer.
You got a nice pre 64 model gun that looks to me like it works really sweet and what you are proposing is to make it function like a post 64 pressed metal clunker model.
I say nice gun - it aint broke - dont mess it up - My opinion only and its yours to do with as you will.

[John Taylor]

[QUOTE=EMR;4465876][QUOTE=indian joe;4465735]

Yes.

But there is no “moving the lever down the first little bit”. Check out the photo below: the lever closes freely until this point. Then there’s firm resistance all the way until the lever presses that trigger safety on its own.

Check the screw that goes through the lever, visible in your photo. If it is loose it will cause the lever to drag at this point. Just a thought.

[Texas by God]

With my 1954 m94, it can be fired with your hand not gripping the lever, but as I never cock it unless polnted at paper or fur- not a big deal. I could cure it with a USED lower tang that I'd have to hand fit- or just rock on.
Rock on!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Geobru]

I recently picked up a ‘61 1894 in 30-30. The problem I have is that when I fully depress the lever then take my fingers off the lever, the lever still depresses that little protruding pin and I can still pull the trigger to drop the hammer. I have to give the lever a little nudge to release that pin and reset.

I disassembled most of the receiver and gave things a good scrubbing and poked around a bit, but the problem still persists. Anyone have any idea what i should look into?

Thanks!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180925/efebd07af670f37b29914941172ec726.jpg

It sounds like the lever is working correctly. If you want the lever safety to work as designed, grind off a little of the stud that protrudes through the lower tang so that when the bolt is closed, the lever safety won't let it fire. Looking at the first pic, it looks like there is plenty of the stud protruding out of the lower tang to relieve the pressure on the closed lever. If you don't want to risk messing up the original part, buy a used one online and play with it until it works. That way you have the original part as it was made. Just my $0.02.

[EMR]

It sounds like the lever is working correctly. If you want the lever safety to work as designed, grind off a little of the stud that protrudes through the lower tang so that when the bolt is closed, the lever safety won't let it fire. Looking at the first pic, it looks like there is plenty of the stud protruding out of the lower tang to relieve the pressure on the closed lever. If you don't want to risk messing up the original part, buy a used one online and play with it until it works. That way you have the original part as it was made. Just my $0.02.

Actually this is exactly what I was thinking about doing. I just haven’t gotten around to sourcing the part yet. I appreciate your .02

[Geobru]

I have seen that little stud shortened on two 1894 rifles that I have. The old timers didn't get too fancy in their repairs. Both rifles work as they should and are safe to carry. Just don't take too much off!