Tell me again what it takes to kill a mulie?

[brewer12345]

I have a tag for a mulie doe next month and it is in a place that can have kind of sparse cover between the Ponderosa stands. That means that most likely I will be on the ridge looking down or straight at a deer, and the lack of cover means the shots can be a little longer. My comfort level is 150 yards, 200 tops. Beyond that I will likely pass on the shot and try to get closer, cover or no. I most likely will be hunting with a Tikka T3 in .30-06 for which I have two developed loads to choose from. The first is a cast load based on the Noe 311-195 mold. This throws a 198 grain boolit lubed and checked and it has a big meplat (almost as big as the one on the RCBS 35-200 mold I use in the 35 Rem). Over a charge of 4198 I get about 1900 FPS. The ballistic calculator I plugged all of this into suggests that the boolit will still have 1000 foot pounds or so at 200 yards, with a 10 inch drop from a 100 yard zero. That sound like enough sauce to put down a good sized mulie doe with a shot into the boiler room?

My other choice is a Nosler partition load that flings a 165 grain jacketed slug at 2800 FPS. I have no doubt this will kill deer at 500 yards, not that I would take such a shot.

I would really rather hunt with cast this year. Good idea? I suppose I could figure out the difference in POI between the two loads and just keep a second mag loaded with the partitions for longer shots, but that seems like it would be confusing to sort out as I get excited to have a deer in the scope.

[Wayne Smith]

Choose one and practice until you know where it will hit. Either will kill a deer, given proper placement.

[Hickory]

As Wayne said, shot placement.
One fall I shot prairie dogs for 6 days in Wyoming and was practiced up enough that I got a nice muley with a shot in th ear with a 55 gr .223 @ just over 200 yards.

[Minerat]

A mulie is not an elk. Any bullet over 130gr out of the 06 will put one down if you do your job. Sight factory equivalent j word bullets in 1.5 in high at 100 yds and it will be a dead on hold to 250 yds. I used a 41mag Henry with a 220 gr cast @ 1260 fps on the last doe I shot, approx 125 yds, DRT.

[texasnative46]

Minerat,

EXACTLY. = That is what the Armed Forces calls "battle-sight zero" & it provides GOOD "practical hunting accuracy" likely out to 300M..

yours, tex

[brewer12345]

Yeah, the big boolit load is plenty accurate and the recoil is modest enough that I shoot it enough to be right on at 100 yards. Not worried about being able to put the metal on the meat, just want to make sure it will thump a big bodied mulie with enough authority once it gets there. Given the modest velocity, I am guessing my 94 3 3 alloy probably won't expand, so the meplat will have to do all the work.

[texasnative46]

brewer12345,

Fwiw, MANY a mulie/elk was taken in the 20th Century with a .22 Savage HP, .25-35WCF, .38-40, .44-40, .303 Savage or the .32-40WCF. = None of those rounds is a "powerhouse".
Nonetheless, animals are NO harder to kill now than they were when my grandfather was a hunter in the 1900-1950 period. = His "pet rifle" was a Model 95 Winchester in .30-40 Krag & in those long-ago days, the .30-40 was NOT a "powerhouse" by 21st century standards.

yours, tex

[Texas by God]

I 'd hunt with confidence with your cast load. Even in the West you can get close enough to insure a good vital hit. Have fun!

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[Harter66]

I hunted Nevada all of my life . The regs call for 1000#@100 yd minimum .
We always planned for a 3-400 yd shot above the tree line but most typically shots were inside 250 yd . The last 3 deer , all antlerless , were inside of 100 .

I'm not going to throw stones as I'm not familiar with your bullet of choice . The Nosler at 2800 isn't even a question .
I would however do some more research on the numbers you have for your cast bullet . I shot one with a paper patched 200 gr spitzer shaped boolit with a calculated .380 BC . Drop calculation on measured 300 yd shooting matched that number within normal known group dispersion . It only just barely made the 1000 ftlb @100 yd at 1900 fps and was only 960-975 as I recall at 1800 fps .

To meet the NV numbers a 223 with a BTSP run up to it's limits in the books would make the cut at some 1012# , but a deference loaded factory RP 300 gr HP 45-70 from a then available ported 1895 Marlin would have been sketchy at best .......but what Warden is going write a guy a ticket hunting any big game with a 45-70 ? The same is probably true of an 06' ......if the Warden is a shooter and not of the cast is only for pistols and paper mindset it shouldn't be an issue at all but if he's a mic , Chrony , scale , BC calculator in his pocket guy ........ You might have a hard sell .

[skeettx]

Your load formula will send the bullet through the deer, good wound channels.
So hit the deer in the proper place and all will be well. Just be patient after the shot
and let the deer bleed out.
Please let us know of your adventure
Mike

[texasnative46]

skeettx,

WELL SAID. = When I took my II-B Hirsch (RED DEER) in Germany long ago, my forstmeister insisted that we wait a 1/2 hour (seemed like a HALF-YEAR to me) for him to bleed out. = He stopped a 175 grain "S-A War clone" JSP reload at about 1900FPS out of a 7x57MM Mauser "sporter".
(He ran about 250M, laid down & was GYD when we arrived.)


To me, who was used to hunting TX whitetails, he looked as big as a house. = Sitting & waiting is a GOOD plan, imo.

yours, tex

[brewer12345]

Sounds like I am good to go with the big boolit load. I have a third load, but at 152 grains, 2000 fps or so, and a small meplat I can't see how I would pick it given that the heavier boolit is at least as accurate.

[500Linebaughbuck]

i have a 30-40 krag(1898 spr armory) using 165gr ranch dogs and a charge of 2400 that goes roughly 1800fps. it kills deer out to 178 yards, i know, i have done it. 200 yards is well within reach. i use 10lbs coww and a smidge of tin(guessing 1/2 pound or so).

[reloader28]

500Linebaugh, did you catch the boolit from that? I'm guessing it went on thru.


Brewer, you should have no problems with that cast load. Load em up and have fun

[white eagle]

Tell me again what it takes to kill a mulie?

A bullet in the vitals

[quilbilly]

That boolit and a terminal velocity of 1100 fps if it is only a moderately hard alloy will do just fine by my own experiences with both muzzleloaders and modern. You just have to hit them in the right place as others have said.

[SSGOldfart]

Good luck with your hunt keep us updated,

[500Linebaughbuck]

500Linebaugh, did you catch the boolit from that? I'm guessing it went on thru.


Brewer, you should have no problems with that cast load. Load em up and have fun


from the deer? no. it expanded and went thru the deer(s). i have shot many deer with 165gr rd. the furthest was 178 yards while the closest was 20 yards+/-. every deer was was one shot and they only go about 20 - 30 yards(most of them crumple at the shot). i do have spent boolits, the 1 on the left is 113.7gr , while the one the right is 90.3gr. they were shot at a 3/4" plywood and dirt(piled up behind the target). it was a 100 yard target. i had to dig for them.

https://i.imgur.com/A4YCTTh.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/67l4Fmq.jpg?1

[lobogunleather]

I have hunted Colorado mule deer and elk most of my life (68 trips around the sun and counting). I have taken mule deer with .30-06, .308, .300 Savage, .30-40 Krag, .250 Savage, .30-30 Win, .357 revolver, and other calibers. With cast bullets I have used .357 revolver, .30-30, .300 Savage, and .30-06, and all are perfectly adequate within reasonable ranges when the bullet is put through the boiler works (heart-lung area).

My usual load in .30-06 is the Lee C309-170F, gas checked, Alox lube, and 30 grains H335. This yields +/- 2000 FPS (comparable to factory .30-30). Bullets are cast of 50% old wheel weights and 50% new Linotype metal. I have recovered only one bullet (broke a rib on entry, through both lungs, stopped against a rib on the off-side, moderate shearing of the bullet nose, no significant expansion), all others have gone clean through. All were taken at ranges under 100 yards. None required a second shot. None went more than 100 feet before collapsing.

I regularly load a couple hundred .30-30 rounds every years for the grandkids, using the same bullet and same powder charge. Those have taken dozens of deer all over the US for years.

In my scoped Ruger #1 Light Sporter.30-06 that load will consistently shoot 2" groups at 100 yards. In an old Remington 03/A3 Springfield (unaltered) that load will shoot 3" groups at 100 yards all day long (interestingly the 300-yard sight setting is dead on at 100).

Started loading cast rifle bullets 33 years ago. This is the first really successful cast bullet load in .30-06 for me and I have never found any reason to change it.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Have killed many mulies with a 243 100 grain and many white tail with a 223 55 grain.

[Blammer]

brewer-

I have a 30-06 load I developed for my rifle with 226gr bullet traveling 1850 or so fps. I shot a doe with it about 160 yds away, through the leg bone and through the heart. She did the 80 yd dash and died. Bullet gave complete penetration, entrance and exit.

Your cast load will work fine, I would aim for bone to break them down so they don't run so far. Shoulder coming or going, will work.

Where your short coming will be, is in determining distance to the target, so you can get an excellent shot. A pocket range finder for $100 is your best friend. With the cast velocity being lower, it will drop quickly at distance. Know your drop, practice at distance and go get one.

[brewer12345]

Have a range finder and unless the target were obviously within 100 yards (such as a deer stepping out from a stand of trees I had already ranged) I do not take shots without checking. The rifle range I have access to is a 100 yard one, so that is all I can do. I know from the ballistic calculator that the drop should not make a difference out to 150 yards. By 200 I need to be aiming at the spine or a bit over.

[brass410]

location and luck is pretty much all you need, oh yeah a firearm bigger probably better than little, cause if you cant hit it at least you have a shot at scaring it to death. I usually kill mine with the truck on my way home at night, not the best way but certainly easier than most and I almost never have to track it (they're usually wedged between the headlites and the bumper)

[Texas by God]

location and luck is pretty much all you need, oh yeah a firearm bigger probably better than little, cause if you cant hit it at least you have a shot at scaring it to death. I usually kill mine with the truck on my way home at night, not the best way but certainly easier than most and I almost never have to track it (they're usually wedged between the headlites and the bumper)I used a 100 lb. Six point whitetail buck to kill a 2005 Chevy Silverado. One shot @ 70mph. I hate the taste and smell of airbags.

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[TCLouis]

I think measured distance and only computer generated POI will be limiting.
Empirical test would be best and will give you practical real world boolit drop information.
This is of course post hunt as you either went last weekend, or will be going this weekend.

[brewer12345]

I think measured distance and only computer generated POI will be limiting.
Empirical test would be best and will give you practical real world boolit drop information.
This is of course post hunt as you either went last weekend, or will be going this weekend.


Going the coming weekend. I played around with a ballistic calculator and tried varying the initial speed a bit to see how far I could be off. Out to 150 yards it does not make a meaningful difference. I also have some additional fudge factor due to elevation as the range is 5000 feet and the area I will be hunting is more like 8000.

[dverna]

I would select the bullet and load that is the most effective. In this case, I see no advantage to using a cast bullet...but of course there is the pride factor....alas...one of the deadly sins we are cautioned to avoid.

You WILL kick yourself if you miss the shot or wound and lose your deer. Chose wisely.

BTW, if your post is to confirm that your choice of a cast bullet is supported by others, you have received affirmation. If you had any serious doubt, that doubt will remain, and will haunt you if you need to make a 200 yd shot.

If you stay with the cast load, you must test it at range or you will have doubts. Do not underestimate the power of confidence and knowledge.

[brewer12345]

Understood, Don. I have shot this load at 100 yards many times and will likely not take a shot over 150 yards with it, so no worries. I was mostly wanting confirmation that this combination would kill deer. For elk next month I will be using Partitions because the shots are generally 200+ yards.

[brewer12345]

Well, I can say for sure that my load will kill a mulie no problem. 20 minutes before the end of legal shooting hours I made an 80 yard shot on a big doe quartering toward me. I missed the front shoulder bone, but it went in through the meat, destroyed the heart, hit both lungs, clipped the digestive tract, and exited the rib cage on the opposite side. She did not make it 25 yards, and based on the blood pattern/spray it looked like she ran 15 yards, did a donut and fell over. If anything, this load was too destructive. The spot where the big meplat made contact with her left bloodshot meat that reminds me of what jacketed stuff does. What was interesting is that most of the damage was done up front near the impact site. The exit was just a slightly bigger hole.

Can't complain at all. I got my first deer with my own cast load, managed to field dress her in the dark (head lamps are wonderful), and she was even thoughtful enough to keel over at the top of the ridge right above the truck. My buddy dropped by to help me skin her and get the carcass quartered. Tomorrow I will figure out how to cut quarters into steaks, roasts and the like. Now I just have to hope that she tests free of CWD.

[richhodg66]

Great going! I had no doubts your load would work. Except for the occasional arrow, I haven't killed a deer with a jacketed bullet since 2009 and I average two a year. They work. Anybody can do it with a jacketed bullet, but the truth is, it's not that hard with cast either.

[brewer12345]

The annoying part of this is that it has taken three years to get a decent tag in Colorado. Probably will be 2 or 3 years before I get another chance at a tag in this area. Oh well, I will start trying to alternate deer tags with pronghorn tags. Not sure pronghorn is a great choice for cast given the likely range limitations, but I will have plenty of time to think about it.

[richhodg66]

Wow, don't have that problem here with white tails, plenty to go around.

A pronghorn with cast would be a worthy goal. I think you should start preparing for it.

[brewer12345]

A pronghorn with cast would be a worthy goal. I think you should start preparing for it.

While my buddy and I were out looking for jackrabbits a couple weeks ago a small herd of pronghorns came within 50 yards of us while we were eating lunch. Somehow I suspect I would not be that lucky during open season. I have zero experience hunting pronghorns, but sneaking up close looks like quite a challenge in relatively flat terrain. Getting within 100 yards and hitting a boiler room that is considerably smaller than that of a deer seems like quite a challenge. I need to fool around with different cast loads and get used to pretty much crawling among the sagebrush. Probably not enough bullet, but the Lee soup can load I have worked up is easily accurate enough to make the hit.

[richhodg66]

I have zero experience with pronghorns, however, I'm betting there are guys out there who consistently kill them every year with archery equipment. It can be done.

[brewer12345]

True, there are plenty of successful archers. Let's just say that I am extremely humble when estimating my hunting skills...

[dk17hmr]

Beside roundball kills the only big game animal I have killed with cast was an antelope. I’d say go for it.

[brewer12345]

Almost forgot the picture!

[10x]

Having used a M10 Ross 303 with the 313299 (14.5 grains Unique and 1450 fps) on many, many, mule deer doe.
A 313299 from wheel weights will not expand on soft tissue. A Texas heart shot (At the root of the tail of a deer facing away from you) will travel the entire length of the spine and not expand at all - breaking every rib on the way to stop just under the hide in the neck.

Expect your hard cast bullet to act like a full metal Jacket. A shot through the lungs that does not hit the heart, or bone will give you a wounded deer.
While hunting with a cast bullet I take the time to make sure I am aiming for a vital spot with heart, head, or bone. I have yet to lose a deer, and at 1450 fps even if a bone is hit, there is minimal loss of meat along the wound channel. If I can't make a humane shot, I don't pull the trigger.
BTW: most mule deer I have harvested have been under 50 yards - they are easy to stalk.

Locally to hunt mule deer, camo, don't worry about scent. 30 years of sitting on stumps downwind, upwind, and crosswind watching mule deer feed have taught me that scent either dissipates with the wind or rises from your body heat within 10 -12 yards. I have been directly upwind - very light breeze- and mule deer doe have grazed (down wind from me) to within 5 yards before they scented me and startled. They have no idea of what a human smells like and if they do, they don't associate human scent with danger. A deer that has scented many joggers and hikers has learned to ignore humans as not dangerous. The town Mule deer here have a fear distance of about 3 to 10 yards before they get uncomfortable and move off.

Doe in heat attractants??? Sometimes a buck will go to a scent patch , usually they ignore it.

In a moment of weakness I put up a deer decoy in my yard with doe in heat scent on it. The tracks in the snow indicated that all the deer simply ignored it when it had scent on it.

[kenyerian]

congratulations on a successful hunt!! Well done.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Well done !! Congratulations for sticking with the plan. Lead will still feed the family.
I chuckle eat time I read the next hyper add about lures and scents. Why anyone wants to smell like stuff the body expels ??
Try rubbing apples on your gear and boots. I get the free apples (half rotten) from the local "open air market" or the windfall apples the yellow jackets have not taken over. I have never met a corn cruncher that did not like an apple snack. My car smells like apples... not like some bus station toilet that was not flushed for two well used days.

[brewer12345]

10x, your description of mule deer behavior dovetails with what I have seen. I have had multiple deer walk to within 25 yards of me while squirrel hunting. I actually got within 25 yards of a few does early on the morning of my hunt but did not know.they were just over the top of the ridge I was climbing until they took off. The hard part in Colorado is getting a tag where there are enough deer.

I was interested to read about your experience with penetration. How hard was your boolit on the shot in the rear end? Is that a round or flat nose design? I don't know if I had material expansion, but I definitely had a lot of.shock/energy transfer from the big meplat.

[Texas by God]

Almost forgot the picture!That's a Tikka? Extended mag and custom stock? Congrats on the Mulie!

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[10x]

10x, your description of mule deer behavior dovetails with what I have seen. I have had multiple deer walk to within 25 yards of me while squirrel hunting. I actually got within 25 yards of a few does early on the morning of my hunt but did not know.they were just over the top of the ridge I was climbing until they took off. The hard part in Colorado is getting a tag where there are enough deer.

I was interested to read about your experience with penetration. How hard was your boolit on the shot in the rear end? Is that a round or flat nose design? I don't know if I had material expansion, but I definitely had a lot of.shock/energy transfer from the big meplat.

the bullet was cast with wheel weights, it was a 311299 design increased in diameter to 0.313" for the 303,

A flat point bullet


I have slowly walked past a herd of mule deer does wearing full camo following a treed fenceline. As long as I stayed 10 yards away they did not seem to mind at all.

[brewer12345]

That's a Tikka? Extended mag and custom stock? Congrats on the Mulie!

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Yep, a Tikka. The stock is factory, just a different model from the base version. It is a pretty forgiving rifle.

[Walks]

All, the Mule Deer of my youth were taken at 30-150yds with a .257 Robt's over open sights. 4 of them, 120-150 lbs. Sierra 100gr Spitzer over H4895. M1917 converted to 24" Sporter.
All one shot kills, none moved more then 30yrs when hit.
Those were good days. Then I grew up, went into the UNITED STATES NAVY. Life was never the same.

I wanna to back to July 1963

[Texas by God]

Yep, a Tikka. The stock is factory, just a different model from the base version. It is a pretty forgiving rifle.It's a beauty, and I like the cheekpiece. Is it the Forest model? They are forgiving; my T3 Hunters make me look like I know what I'm doing lol.

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[brewer12345]

It's a beauty, and I like the cheekpiece. Is it the Forest model? They are forgiving; my T3 Hunters make me look like I know what I'm doing lol.

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Yes, it is the forest model. I try to keep the stock nice, but it is being used as a field gun.

[reloader28]

Good morning
Well done !! Congratulations for sticking with the plan. Lead will still feed the family.
I chuckle eat time I read the next hyper add about lures and scents. Why anyone wants to smell like stuff the body expels ??
Try rubbing apples on your gear and boots. I get the free apples (half rotten) from the local "open air market" or the windfall apples the yellow jackets have not taken over. I have never met a corn cruncher that did not like an apple snack. My car smells like apples... not like some bus station toilet that was not flushed for two well used days.



I wont use deer scents either, but I agree that apples make awesome deer bait

[brewer12345]

I did some butcher work today and got a better look at the exit wound. It was at least a half inch in diameter so there must have been some expansion.

[Smoke4320]

I wanna to back to July 1963

As long as I will know what I know now I am up for time travel back to 1963