Lee sizing die bad?

[Idaho45guy]

Bought a set of the Lee dies for .450 Bushmaster at an ACE hardware store/gun shop 50 miles away. Got home and was going to work up some loads for my new rifle when I realized I totally forgot to buy the proper primers (CCI 400 Small Rifle).

So I was bummed but figured I might as well prep the cases and flare the mouths in anticipation of getting the proper primers.

Went to size the first case and it stopped about 5/8"... Odd. Took it out and added some case lube and tried again. Same results. Made the mistake of trying to give it some more pressure and it moved about 1/8" inch and got stuck. Broke my press table trying to get it unstuck.

These are unfired Starline cases. I tried the three fired sample cases that came with the upper and they, of course, were worse. Tried to insert a brand new Hornady Black unfired round and same results.

Tried all other cases in the other dies and they fit perfectly.

Got the calipers out and the cases are within spec but the die is simply undersized.

227530

227531

So it appears I got a bad die...

Since driving back down to the store and returning the set will cost me $22 in gas, and the fact that it was the only set they had (it was a miracle they even had one), can I return the set directly to Lee? Or can I return just the one die? Or do I have to go through the retailer?

[RedlegEd]

Hi. I’d give Lee customer service a call and explain your situation. I’ll bet they’re more than willing to exchange the bad die for a good one. I’ve found they usually make things right. Ed

[country gent]

There is a very good chance Lee will just send a replacement die or die set after talking to you. What does the inside finish look like? It may have missed the finish reamer.

[Lloyd Smale]

first lee die set I bought for my 50beo was just like that. Returned them to lee and they sent me a good set. Found out a bad batch got through quality control (if lee even has it)

[DougGuy]

I went round and round with one long time customer service guy at Lee, got a 308 die that had an unfinished neck section, sent it in with a piece of brass, and the dummy said there was nothing wrong with it, sized the brass I sent and buckled the shoulder, SENT IT BACK ANYWAY!

I bought a new one off ebay, there is a full .001" difference in the two dies, the ebay die sizes cases as normal, the die that Lee said there was nothing wrong with? I can SIT on the press lever and it WILL NOT push the case into the die past the neck. I checked the dies with pin gages, and the tight one is rough and unpolished in the neck. You cannot fix these btw, unless you just want to commit half a day to banging ones head against a brick wall as they are case hardened after they are finish reamed. I MAY be able to "save" this one with my Sunnen hone, should I ever run into the situation that I need a die with the neck sized larger than the good die I got off ebay.

I was VERY DISAPPOINTED in my experience with sending dies back to them, in the future they will go into either the trash to keep them from mixing in with good dies or I will saw them in half and send photos to Lee upper management.

[skeet1]

I have nothing but good to say about Lee products and the customer service, they have always been good should I have a problem. I had a six cavity mold that was bored off center and they had me take photos of the problem and sent me a new one without sending the old one back. The new mold was perfect.

Ken

[RED BEAR]

i have never used lee customer service but i really like there product's. i have a press that i have had since the 80s and know that it has reloaded into the hundreds of thousands of rounds. i did rebuild it last week but now is tighter and smoother than when it was new. i like the lee molds better than most others ( mp molds are the exception nothing better than them in my opinion). the light weight is easier on my arthritic hands.

[scotner]

I was VERY DISAPPOINTED in my experience with sending dies back to them, in the future they will go into either the trash to keep them from mixing in with good dies or I will saw them in half and send photos to Lee upper management.

I was less than impressed with Lee customer service during my first experience with them. Brand new 6 cavity 9mm mold and the sprue cutter lever snapped off the first time I used it. After requiring the sales receipt they agreed to replace it under warranty "free" for only $7. I have not had another problem since replacing the part, which only confirms that it was a defective part from the start. I mention this because I also got a long explanation of what I did wrong and that I should read the instructions.

By way of comparison I also contacted RCBS about the same time and told them that I had a 2 cavity mold that had been dropped with the sprue cutter plate in the open position and the plate was bent. I asked how much including shipping for a replacement. I got a reply saying that the part would be sent at no charge.

I understand that there is a price difference between the two products but this reminds me of when I first started buying hand tools. Most of what I bought was Craftsman brand but I also bought a few tools from K Mart. After all, they were lifetime warranty. But after several trips back to K Mart to exchange the same tools over and over it became apparent that they were no bargain.

[Idaho45guy]

Last week I sent an email explaining the problem complete with pictures. I asked if I could just send back the single die or if they wanted the whole set, since the rest fit perfectly.

Their response was to grill me on my experience, how long I've been reloading, what case lube I used, etc.

Forget it. I didn't have time to argue with them. I was too busy getting ready for my trip to Japan to see my grandkids.

Now, I can order another Lee set for $30, or start looking at RCBS for die sets.

Lee really did a dumb thing in not just using critical thinking skills, looking at the pictures, and sending me a new one.

[Dragonheart]

Take some advice from an old man. If it is a tool that you are going to keep and use buy the best you can afford and you will never regret it.

[gwpercle]

Lee used to take care of problems , I have a lot of Lee equipment that I usually buy from Midway.
Midway had a policy of taking back whatever you had a problem with and exchanging it and paying the postage , therefore I never had to deal with Lee. Not sure if this is still Midway's policy on defective merchandise...probably not but Lee better wise up to the fact that an unsatisfied customer isn't going to get them any repeat business. That's just a fact of business....they need to relearn that old business adage....The Customer is always Right . Treat me poorly and I'll buy elsewhere.

Need good dies and customer service....CH4D , Dave and wife Dawna Davison will treat you right.
Gary

[riddleofsteel]

I am a RCBS man from way back. I do have few Lee dies that are over 30 years old. They still work fine

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[engineer401]

CH4D is great to deal with. I have not had problems with Dillon or RCBS. Lee customer service wasn’t great for me when I had questions. I don’t buy Lee dies anymore.

[Char-Gar]

Take some advice from an old man. If it is a tool that you are going to keep and use buy the best you can afford and you will never regret it.

Wise advice indeed!

[higgins]

Is the decapping rod set too low, to the point that it is hitting the base of the case?

[Idaho45guy]

Is the decapping rod set too low, to the point that it is hitting the base of the case?

Nope. Rod completely removed.

[mjwcaster]

DougGuy I feel your pain.
Too many stories of issues with lee 380 sizing dies and lack of help from lee.
But I gave them a chance, sent my sizing die in with brass and factory plated bullets.
Works fine they say.
They sent it back with a few of the bullets seated in the cases.
I could push them deeper with one finger.
Correctly sized brass my butt.
I still use some lee items, even bought their undersize 380 die which works the way the regular sizing die should, but I will never waste my time with their customer disservice.
I just moved the box from lee with everything still in it today.
It’s been years and I am still disgusted when I see it, I should just throw it away.



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[Dragonheart]

I started reloading in earnest when I was 16, so that was now 54 years ago. In that length of timer I have owned or tried just about every die out there and I have narrowed my choices down to three manufactures. My first choice is Dillon. I found a long time before the "Bulge Buster"that the Dillon dies would size a little further down than my other dies, turning straight wall cases that were unusable back to usable. Also Dillon led the pack when it came to new ideas and customer service. Of course the Dillon die selection was limited. My next choice is Redding Dies because they are simply quality made dies. Next are RCBS, a good die, big selection and great customer service.

Lee has some good products so you have to pick & choose because their quality control is a problem and from my personal experience customer service far from the best. Good advice from Ben Franklin; "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.“

My advice is cut your losses, go online and simply order a set of dies from Dillon or other reloading components from Mid South and get them mailed to your door. The cost to drive 50 miles & back is more than the cost of the dies.

[Idaho45guy]

I ended up buying a set of the Hornady dies. I figured since they developed the caliber, then they probably know how to make dies for it. $68 online and shipped to my door for $74 total.

Way more than Lee, but my only option was to argue with them and send them back the bad die and hope they replaced it. Or, buy another Lee set online for $43 and hope that it was a good one.

Decided to just go for a better die since I anticipate much reloading for this caliber; it is a blast at the range!

[Idaho45guy]

BTW, just used the Hornady die tonight and it is perfect. Thanks for nothing, Lee.

[Tackleberry41]

Set of Lee 450 dies I bought of Midway work fine. Dies Lee generally are not an issue to return. They are used to it. Molds, yea forget those, they always say your doing it wrong, even tho other brand molds you can cast fine with.

[DougGuy]

Dies Lee generally are not an issue to return. They are used to it.

When more than one person sends in a die, with brass that the die would NOT size, and specific measurements taken from the die with pin gages and tells Lee the EXACT problem that the die is suffering from, i.e. the neck portion .001" smaller than a known good die, and rougher than a cob, and Lee denies the customer's diagnosis and sends the die back in the same shape it was in when it was sent in to them, it's PLAIN TO SEE THEY DON'T CARE.

[mjwcaster]

OP made the right call.

I have to agree with DougGuy.

With my 380 sizing die I was told by some I was wasting my time and money returning it.
But I wanted to give lee a chance.
Got sized brass returned with my provided bullets in them.
The bullets could be pushed flush into the case with finger pressure.
Pete said the die was fine, within spec, ok with the .355 commercial plated bullets I provided.

I still get mad over this, not that they wouldn’t make it right, but that they spent the effort to try the dies, the results were unmistakably dangerous and they sent the piece of garbage back.
What happens when an inexperienced reloaded gets these same dies back and because Pete from Lee says their fine they actually use them, with the resultant overpressure event due to bullet set back issues.

If they didn’t want to replace them, they could have at least pointed out the safety issue with the mixed headstamp brass I provided (a mix of the major manufactures).

When it comes to wasting my time and money I get upset. When it comes to safety I get, well I just can’t say it here.

Not my last lee purchase, but definitely my last return. And I try to steer away from them if possible.


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[airone46]

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."

Great proverb!
Like the Italian joke I've already published:
"Two old friends, John and Tom, meet after a long time." John asks the other:
How does your wife love? And Tom: Mah! There are some people who say WELL !, and some others say BAD! "

I have already reported my problems with Lee in the post "Lee Precision or LEE IMPRECISION": I do not add anything else not to disrespect to the Moderators who have closed the post (I reported myself that it was appropriate to do it!), And because only very few have understood the real reason of my post (it was an IMPRECISION on how to assist customers, and not a mechanical IMPRECISION), and because I have nothing to add. I join the group of people who have had a bad experience on Lee ASSISTANCE.

I think that if Lee products were the same as Redding products (for the quality of materials, workmanship and service - replace a piece considered defective by the CUSTOMER has a cost!). At this point the Redding would have closed for a long time!
A faulty product can always happen! When GOD created Adam, he realized the mistake, and created EVA! :bigsmyl2:
And I do not think Lee, Redding, ..... Chevrolet, Ferrari, Rolls Royce etc. be superior to a SUPREME BEING !!!

The assumptions in the marketig are only three:
1) - An item is badly designed: its production must be completely eliminated!
2) - There was an error in the processing of a piece (or group of pieces): only the defective items should be eliminated!
The first hypothesis is difficult to occur!
It is easier for the second hypothesis to occur: at this point it is necessary to see how much the defect occurs,
The higher the percentage, the better the product! But to establish this it is necessary to examine thousands and thousands of specimens of the same item! And at this point I do not think that this kind of investigation can be done in a forum.
Only the manufacturer can do it, which must also be honest in saying VERY with the percentage of defective items!
3) - A good marketing policy is finally to assist the customer even in cases where the customer has no right to any assistance. Example: the customer loses a piece of an article. The producer has the DUTY to provide the lost piece, but for a fee. But there are MANUFACTURERS who do it for FREE! That customer will never abandon that producer!

I have so many Lee articles: paid little (if they are compared to the price of other RCBS items, Redding, Hornady, CH-4D), but they work honestly. Only twice have I had problems. Once with a bullet sizer (I already talked about it in another post) and another time with a mold (loss of lead between mold and sprue, eliminated after bringing the mold to a repair shop at my expense).
In both cases I expected something more from Lee!

[mold maker]

Every co hires bean counters and quality is the first thing affected.

[JoeJames]

Every co hires bean counters and quality is the first thing affected.Not every company, but the Winchester 1964 massacre does come to mind.

[GregLaROCHE]

You can save quite a bit of money buying Lee products and most work OK, but I have a few items I wish I had never bought. Almost all my dies are from awhile ago, when Lee wasn’t really in the picture. Now that I’m getting into casting I started by buying Lee molds. I then had to buy an RCBS mold, because Lee didn’t make the caliber. When I got the mold, the moment I held it in my hand, I could tell there was a difference. The same was true when I started casting with it. You get what you pay for.

[GregLaROCHE]

I forgot to mention that all Starline brass should be annealed before you use it. That probably isn’t your problem, but is good to know.

[jmort]

Wrong

"How can I soften case mouth to allow case to properly seal when using black powder in 45-70, 45-90, 45-2.6 (45-100) and 40-65?
1.) Be aware this is not always necessary. Only if cases are extremely dirty and a lot of unburned powder is consistently found in chamber would you need to anneal.

2.) First place case in proper container filled with approximately 1 inch of water so head of case is submerged in water. (Reason is you only want to soften mouth of case and not head area as this can ruin strength at base and primer pocket where case must remain rigid to handle pressure.)


3.) Next heat case mouth (approx. top 1/2 inch of case) uniformly just to where it begins to turn a dullred and then knock over in water. A propane torch is usually used for heating device. MOST IMPORTANT: Remember if case gets too hot they are ruined and there is no way to make hard again. So, try a few out and get a feel for the proper color and softness required for your application. If they get bright red, you probably went too far."