CZ52 wont go bang, need reloading advice.

[glicerin]

My first 4 shots with 'aym 52' milsurp went click, suspect hard primer cups for subgun. Has anyone had luck with 85 grn lead(I have an RCBS mold)? What would you size? Hope I can get a load to cycle without too much leading.

[9.3X62AL]

Oh, yeah.

The CZ-52 will digest cast boolits just fine--as does the ChiCom Tokarev and Mauser C-96 I have in this caliber. In my CZ, grooves run a fat .309"--so I size Lyman #313249 or the Lee 100 RN to .310" and bang away with enough Bullseye, WW-231, Unique, or Herco to prompt 950-1000 FPS. At that speed or faster, the CZ-52 runs very well. The Tok wants 1100 FPS and boolits at .312". The Broomer is limited to 1200 FPS, and will function well once the loads reach 1000 FPS. Boolit diameter is .309" for that one's on-spec bore.

Firing pins in those pistols are prone to breakage. Take a look at www.makarov.com for some aftermarket and surplus parts for the CZ pistols. The rollers can also wear egg-shaped, and if so will need replacement.

If the mood strikes you to try j-words in the pistol, I really like Hornady .308" 90 grain XTP's. The CZ can run these to 1700 FPS with the right amount of AA-7......start at 6.5 grains and work up from there.

[glicerin]

Thanx deputy al. I just ordered 500 brass, expect they and dies will take 3 weeks to reach far north. In meantime, a buddy gave me some 'bxn 54' milsurp to try, hope they're softer. Real men shoot lead!

[Willbird]

I put the suggested heavier slide spring in my cz52 and it still throws fired cases over 20', yes TWENTY FEET !!

There is some poop 7.62x25 ammo out there, people say it is hard primers, but I think it is DUD primers myself....most of it I have looked at has only one snake eye flash hole not two like rifle berdan ammo, I have often wondered if the cases didnt have the proper anvil or such. If you get some good ammo they ALL go bang........and they buck and roar too.

Bill

[Herb in Pa]

4.7 Grains of WW231 with a 75 grain lead slug chrono's @ 1195 fps from my CZ

5.4 Grains of WW321 with a 75 grain lead slug chrono's @ 1355 fps in the CZ

I worked a starting load up in my shop shooting into a railroad tie, increasing the charge until I got the action to function.

[9.3X62AL]

The challenge in this caliber is the dinky case neck issue, and centering a boolit drive band near the case mouth to enable roll- or taper-crimping to retain the projectile as it bumps up the feedramp and into the chamber. Telescoping boolits will cause mis-feeds, and a powdery mess as well. The Lee 100 RN has generous drive band areas that make bullet seating a lot less complicated.

Willbird--loads meeting or exceeding 30 Mauser level (85 grainers at 1400 FPS) really sail away in my CZ-52 also. What izzit about roller-locked actions that make them eject so vigorously? An HK-91 I had really flung the empties, too. MP-5's do the same stunt.

[Herb in Pa]

The brass is a real PITA, when I first got my pistol you had two choices...make it from 223 brass or 9mm Win Mag. I went the 9mm route and wouldn't you know it, just as I finished making 500 rounds of the stuff, Starline comes along and furnishes it. I also bought a spare 9 mm barrel and shoot it also.

[StarMetal]

It's not because of the roller-lock system. It's mainly due to the fact that the CZ52 is a military pistol and so are most HK products, either that or police.....sooooo they have to have positive extraction and ejection. Couple that with the fact that they are either semi or full auto actions. If you openned a 98 Mauser action vigorously it too will chuck the brass alot farther then in normal operation.

I think the Lee 100 gr is about the best bullet out there for calibers talked of here. Like Al says it has a generous front band to crimp on and now that I have the Lee 30 Luger/30Mauser/7.62 Tokarev factory collet crimper I even make better ammo.

I've gotten all my pistols to function on relatively mild target ammo including a German Luger in 30 Luger caliber and Lugers are notoroius for requiring top end ammo loads. Even the 1911 I built in 30 Luger functions pretty good concidering how tight the slide is to the frame yet and we're talking about alot of mass in a 1911 slide/barrel assembly especially in 30 Luger chambering.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

I went the same route that Herb did with my 30 Mau/7.62 Tok brass--reformed 500 9mm Win Mags, this circa 1991 or thereabouts. I still have a couple hundred of these laying around, doing business in the lighter Broomhandle C-96 loads presently. These likely have close to 20 firings, and none have crapped out yet. Mostly, they go into gopher holes or brush piles while hunting, so over the years they have dwindled in number. There must be a shooting maxim or law that states when shooting self-loading firearms, you are required to lose not less than 5% of your cartridge brass every firing cycle.

[Ricochet]

There must be a shooting maxim or law that states when shooting self-loading firearms, you are required to lose not less than 5% of your cartridge brass every firing cycle.
That aggravates the crap out of me! I don't know how many hours I've wasted trying to find .45 ACP cases on the ground!

[44man]

A good point for shooting revolvers!

[versifier]

I have one of those little net thingys that goes on the right hand and catches the brass as the pistol spits it out. It doesn't work with all of them, especially if they throw them forward, but I have had it for a few years now and it saves a lot of chasing. My dad got one for himself after trying mine, and neither of us are big on gadgets, but he's in his eighties and I don't bend very well, so they save us a lot of crawling around in the grass scrounging for our empties. Good on the range for practice and testing.

[Ricochet]

Just disassembled and reassembled the "new" CZ52 for the first time. Got to know how to take it apart to clean it before going shooting with it.

Dang, I about wore myself out trying to get the barrel back in the slide! The concept is simple. With the recoil spring out, it's a piece of cake. But with the spring in, the compressed spring buckles and it pushes the muzzle down as it approaches the hole in the front of the slide so the end of the barrel catches on the edge of the hole and can't be pushed through. After working up a sweat and skinning a knuckle, I slid a cleaning rod through the front of the slide and into the barrel as a guide, and got my boy to lift up on it as I pushed the barrel from the rear with a magazine bottom lip, holding the slide with my other hand. A real three handed job.

There's got to be an easier way!

[StarMetal]

John,

I have a punch that fits that hole in the barrel right were the rollers are just like the manual says. It fits tight so I can really control the barrel. Piece of cake for me, although the recoil spring occasionally gets in the muzzles way.

But I will make you feel better John, listen to this. First time I took it apart I was out on the pati sitting on the bench. There our thick bushes around the patio. I gets the slide off and was taking the barrel out (before I had my punch tool) and ZZZZiiiipppppp the whole barrel assembly and recoil spring goes sailing through the air like a missile for about five feet and yup, you guessed it, in the bushes. God, my heart sank. I thought I'd never find everything. Well I did.

Reminded me of "Where where is my barrel tonight...I searched the bushes all over, but it found another and zip it was gone".

Joe

[glicerin]

Thanx for advice guys. I slowly built up to 5.0 grn win231 with rcbs 32-84rn, sized .309. My barrel slugs .311, but I'm afraid neck will be too tight with o'size bullet(note starline's warning with brass). The base band of boolit is good fit in neck, I crimp into grease groove with OAL of 1.345. A 100 grn half-jacket with 4.5 win231 also cycles well and shows promise of good accuracy. Does this pistol have a reputation for weak ignition? Surplus ammo fires only after 4 strikes, RP primers seldom, and I had 3 misfires/40 with CCI. Pin is not broken, and hammer spring mechanism looks healthy. Still hav'n fun in liberalnorth.

[Ricochet]

Glicerin, wonder what your headspace and firing pin protrusion are like? If the case head's a bit away from the breech face and the firing pin's not reaching out there, you'll get a light strike.

Joe, the thing I was most worried about when I took it apart were that those rollers were going to fly off somewhere, but they didn't.

[StarMetal]

John,

Yeah, but those rollers are trapped in there I believe. You have to remove that little plate that traps them. That's what I thought when the barrel assembly went flying....oh no..my little rollers, I'll never find them.

Joe

[glicerin]

Re: misfires, Good thought, Ricochet. The pin protrudes at least one diameter ie >0.070". Should be enough? My reloads and fired cases seem to be held by chamber in good headspace, ie back against breech face. Is it possible for trigger safety device(firing pin lock) to drag on pin, slowing it down? My VOZ76 has a rebounding hammer, is that normal? I had about 6 dryfires when reloads ejected, but new cartridge didn't feed. Now I check chamber every time for cartridge present when in doubt. I wonder if 1976 rebuilds had a better firing pin? So far so good.

[KCSO]

Is your pin broken??? The most common cause I see in these is a pin that is broken in half. It looks good and protrudes, but if it is not whole and in one piece not enough force is transmitted through the pin to set off a primer. At one time we warned people not to dry fire 52's under any circumstance and we kept replacment pins from brownell's on hand for every gun sold.

[glicerin]

Not broken KCSO, unless it's microsopic crack. I use a 3/16" brass rod 6" long to disassemble barrel, works great. If I size cast boolits .311 to match barrel, I only have about one thou clearance on neck(dangerous??).

[Ricochet]

If you've got a thou neck clearance you're OK.

Are you sure it's all clean around your firing pin? No trace of cosmoline in there to slow things down?

[glicerin]

I used paint thinner and pipe stem cleaners on firing pin channel, then put in a little graphite. When I push in firing pin lock, pin falls out freely with gravity. Is rebounding hammer normal? Hammer retracts about 1/4" after firing, like an S&W K38.

[StarMetal]

I used paint thinner and pipe stem cleaners on firing pin channel, then put in a little graphite. When I push in firing pin lock, pin falls out freely with gravity. Is rebounding hammer normal? Hammer retracts about 1/4" after firing, like an S&W K38.


Yes, the hammer on the CZ52, when at rest doesn't not touch the firing pin, so I guess you could say it's rebounding. One thing, don't dry fire a CZ52, it's known to break firing pins. Also don't trust the hammer drop.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Well, after shooting the Cz52 a bunch today, the disassembly, cleaning and reassembly went fine. Joe (my boy) lifted up on the cleaning rod inserted in the barrel while I manhandled the slide and barrel, and it slipped right in. I believe I could do it myself by pressing the rod down on the side of a table or something.

Man alive, that thing puts out a blast and flash, and those bullets kick up a lot of fuss when they hit!

Out of a bunch of magazines full we fired, I only found 5 cases. Those things go way off. I could never reload for this thing without using a brass catcher.

The surplus ammo I got from Sportsman's Guide is dated 1945. Some of 'em took a second strike, but they all fired.

The shoulders on the cases all moved ahead noticeably and were formed to a steeper angle. Sort of a 7.62x25 Ackley Improved.

[StarMetal]

John,

For what the round is, I think it has a ferocious muzzle blast. I told you it was a powerful nasty little round.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Yeah, the flash was very noticeable while we still had good daylight. And loud!

[glicerin]

Ricochet: are you using a 3/16" rod into hole in roller locking cam? Control of barrel going into slide has been easy, and no problem with barrel & spring fitting into slide(maybe I'm just lucky). Is there any chance you got 7.63 Mauser cartridges, the shoulder starts .025 sooner per Donnelly. If cartridges slide too far into barrel pulled out of cz, you could have a serious headspace problem?

[9.3X62AL]

Glicerin points out an anomaly of this caliber--the 30 Mauser vs. 7.62 x 25 Tokarev dimensional difference, both in shoulder placement and case length--about .020" difference. The Mauser case is .990" long at full spec, the Tokarev runs .970". Also, I had the same difficulties with case neck thickness in the ChoCom Tokarev--had to neck ream the cases so .312" boolits would have .002" of clearance when fully expanded upon firing. FUN, huh? Of course, the Mauser cases could resolve a headspace issue, I suppose--adjust the sizer die just like a rifle caliber.

There are rewards for all these gymnastics, though. The CZ-52 is easily accurate enough for small game and varmints, and its flat trajectory and terminal effect is close to that of a 32-20 rifle. Even RN castings will whack the daylights out of jackrabbit-sized critters. I have some #311419's loaded into Purina Tokarev Chow right now, to about 1350 FPS--and had a jackrabbit chanced to appear while I was hunting quail during the past two days, the boolits would have gotten a test drive. Strangely, I didn't jump any jacks in the areas I traipsed through while watching quail flush 75-125 yards off the shotgun's muzzle. I think the birds "have seen that movie" a few times this fall--pretty nervous and hypervigilant, from what I saw.

[Ricochet]

No, I haven't tried a 3/16" rod in the hole in the locking cam, or seen that suggested. I was using the magazine lip per the directions on, I think, makarov.com.

The ammo I've got must be Russian. Sportsman's Guide doesn't say where it's from, and says it's 1950-56, but it's headstamped 45.