.38 S & W cal.

[38splpete]

What is the correct bullet diameter for this caliber? I think it is a few thousandths larger than .38 Spl--correct? Anyone know of a source for the bullets? Midway has the brass, it seems, but they don't show the bullets on their site. I'm interested in the bullets or a mold of the correct size. Thanks, Pete

[mtnman31]

Best bet is to measure your bore. From my experience bore sizes are all over the place with .38 S&W. My Colt PP in .38 S&W shoots very well using bullets sized to .359".

[Walks]

I used to load a HORNADY HBWC. Gave me pretty decent accuracy at 50ft.
Never tried a cast bullet. Didn't have anything that would drop at .360 or larger.

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir--the throats vary considerably. Colt Police Positive x 4" is .359", S&W Regulation Police is .361", and a Webley-Enfield and S&W M&P that served the British Empire during WWII both measure .363". I use pin gauges to measure these throats, most gunsmiths or machinists can find this measurement for you if you aren't equipped to do so. Well-fit bullets in 38 S&W can be SUPERBLY accurate, if the sights are sufficient to the task. The Colt PP and the S&W M&P have decent service sights--the other two, well.......

[bedbugbilly]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook recommends a .360. Ideal/Lyman made a number of molds in .360 fours with the 38 S & W cartridge (not 38 Special). I had several that I sold just a few weeks ago that were older Ideal molds in .360.

As mentioned, slug your bore and check your throats - that will tell you. Also, if you don't have a copy, I'd recommend you get one of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks - I have all four editions and all contain excellent information. In fact, there is an on-ine copy that you can download of the 3rd edition - I don't have the link handy but perhaps someone on here can post it for you.

Also, check Starline for brass - I believe they have it. Check with the vendors on here to see if any of them make boolits in .360. If you don't cast . . . I can't think of a better reason to start! :-)

[texasnative46]

38splpete,

In my experience, ANY hollow-base OR "cup-base" lead boolit that works for .38SPL will work FINE in the .38 S&W, as that hollow or "cupped" base spreads out to fill the barrel quite well.
(I once owned a Enfield-made WWII "Commando" revolver, which had a badly worn barrel that was about .364 but 148 grain HB lead wadcutters did FINE in it out to 25M plus.)

IF you don't load .38SPL OR cannot find a hollow/cupped base mold to cast them, you might do well to find a "dedicated" CB mold that is .360 or larger for SOME .38 S&W revolvers, by BSA or Enfield.

yours, tex

[Guesser]

I size all my bullets to .360 for use in 2 Colt Police Positive 38's and 2 S&W Regulation Police. Works well.

[Texas by God]

I did the same as TN46 with my Enfield so long ago. Speer swaged hbwc and a custom front sight made my .38 S&W a turtle killer. My older brother still has that gun but he only shoots 146gr lrn factory loads in it. Nothing wrong with the sights on an Enfield; sharp and square.

[one-eyed fat man]

Lyman 358071, 145 grain round nose (.360 as cast), a .030 card wad, on top of 12 grains of GOEX FFFg, manages about 650 fps and is quite accurate in an 1894 vintage Iver-Johnson Safety Hammerless. It'll knock down "Pepper Poppers" without trouble at 15-20 yards while the flame and smoke bewilder the RO. I haven't fired over a hundred rounds at a time so can't say when fouling becomes a problem. Same bullet over 2.5 grains of Bullseye is just the ticket in a Colt Police Positive (it doesn't much care for the "Holy Black.")

227412

For loading .38-200 in British service revolvers, the NEI #169A, 200 grain round nose, sized to .362 over 3.5 grains of Unique is OK. This is how it looks on a B-16 target at 25 yards off hand. Six o'clock hold and three cylinders full on each target.

227408227409227410227411

[Outpost75]

Accurate has several designs intended for the .38 S&W in various bullet weights so that you can pick the weight needed to shoot to your revolver's fixed sights. I size .360 for my Colts and .362 for the S&Ws.

36-151H copies the factory .38 Colt New Police bullet and approximates factory velocity with 2.5 grains of Bullseye.
227415 227420

36-155D is based on the old 1920 Keith-Modern Bond design and 2.5 grains of Bullseye is a full-charge load.
227422 227421227423227424

36-176P is an ogival wadcutter which shoots to the sights of most WW2 British military revolvers.
227416227419

36-190T approximates the old .38 Super Police load using a flat-nosed bullet.

227417 227418

[Tatume]

Bullets 0.361" in diameter are specified for the 38 S&W cartridge.

[texasnative46]

Tatume,

What is "specified" is often WRONG, especially in older firearms.

yours, tex

[Char-Gar]

Yessir--the throats vary considerably. Colt Police Positive x 4" is .359", S&W Regulation Police is .361", and a Webley-Enfield and S&W M&P that served the British Empire during WWII both measure .363". I use pin gauges to measure these throats, most gunsmiths or machinists can find this measurement for you if you aren't equipped to do so. Well-fit bullets in 38 S&W can be SUPERBLY accurate, if the sights are sufficient to the task. The Colt PP and the S&W M&P have decent service sights--the other two, well.......

The only revolver I own in this caliber is a early 1950's Webley that is surplus from the Singapore Police. You are correct about the throats. I use a 200 grain clone of the original bullet made by Matt's Bullets. They come with the correct size and temper alloy. I used a load of 2 grains of Bulleye. The handgun and load are remarkably accurate both DA and SA. A fun gun for rolling beer cans in the South Texas brush.

[texasnative46]

Char-Gar,

YEP. = In my college days/DAZE, I was employed as THE railroad detective for an industrial "short line" & routinely carried a WWII-era S&W Terrier as a sidearm.
That 200 grain soft-lead bullet was plenty for self-defense & "splattered", rather than ricocheting if it hit a metal object in the railyard.

yours, tex

[Tatume]

What is the correct bullet diameter for this caliber? I think it is a few thousandths larger than .38 Spl--correct? Anyone know of a source for the bullets? Midway has the brass, it seems, but they don't show the bullets on their site. I'm interested in the bullets or a mold of the correct size. Thanks, Pete


Tatume,

What is "specified" is often WRONG, especially in older firearms.

yours, tex

I know that. The fellow asked a question, and I answered the question. He did not ask "what bullet diameter will shoot best in my revolver?"

[texasnative46]

Tatume,

For "good quality", domestically produced .38 S&W revolvers, I'm sure that you're 100% correct but that is NOT so for some overseas revolvers in the .38 S&W caliber. = New WWII Enfield revolvers were often specified "within war service specifications" at .364.
(I suspect that the reason for the long throat on some English revolvers was to accept "out of spec"/poorly stored ammo.)

For some CHEAPLY-made revolvers/ammo of the Pre WWI era, I wouldn't bet 10 cents what the specifications were, if any. = Bannerman's advertised/sold .38 S&W revolvers from Belgium for as little as ONE DOLLAR each.

OFF TOPIC NOTE: Some years ago, I acquired a circa 1930 Colt's Police Positive, as part of a trade of several firearms from an Austin Gun-show. - It was obviously a "returned Lend-Lease revolver", as it had British proofs added to the frame AND it was also crudely stamped in 2 places: NOT ENGLISH MADE.
(I found that somewhat amusing as the Colt's factory markings said: Made in USA.)

yours, tex

[mozeppa]

mine shoots .361

[Char-Gar]

The handgun I wish I had back was a Colt Official Police 38/200. I lost it in the Great DeVorce of 94.

[RED BEAR]

if you're looking to buy bullets for reloading i would try gad custom car i think they can help you out.

[bob208]

I have a victory model s & w I use 356429 run through a .360 sizer to lube them they shoot right on worked the same for a friend that had a victory. he was a deputy sheriff. he carried it for his duty gun.

[texasnative46]

The handgun I wish I had back was a Colt Official Police 38/200. I lost it in the Great DeVorce of 94.

Char-Gar,

I feel your pain. = The SAME happened to me when my first wife & I "split the sheets" in 1979. - She got my REAL Colt's Walker & promptly sold it "for peanuts".

yours, tex

[9.3X62AL]

I have a victory model s & w I use 356429 run through a .360 sizer to lube them they shoot right on worked the same for a friend that had a victory. he was a deputy sheriff. he carried it for his duty gun.

The S&W "Victory" M&P 38/200 is a good shooter with decent service sights. NEI #169A atop 3.0 grains of Unique or 3.3 grains of Herco prompts about 700 FPS, and when they hit iron targets at 25 yards they make quite a WHOCK. The 150 grain #358477s at similar speed don't thump nearly as much on those same targets. It is a weird combination--the bullet (.810") is longer than the case it is seated into (.775"). The British seem to design everything by committee.

[Outpost75]

The Brits wanted the long ogival nosed bullet with high overturning moment to encourage tumbling in soft targets, to improve stopping powder to partly compensate for the low, 600 fps velocity. The WW2 service load was NOT a 200-grain bullet, but the 178-grain FMJ Mk2.

227548

Firearm____________S&W 32-1__Colt_____Ruger__S&W Victory___Rook Rifle
Barrel length__________2”_______4”_______4”______5”______ _____20”

Cyl. Gap_pass 0.004/hold 0.005_0.005/.006_.004/.005 .008/h.009___Solid bbl.

Ammunition________________________________________ _______________
FN Mk2z___________577,8 Sd___616, 10___618,19 ____571,22____Bullet stuck in bbl!
Kynoch 146LRN______623,26 ___649, 31___650,22_____685, 22____848, 7
WRA 146LRN (WW2)__659, 10___701, 13__727, 5______681, 14____787, 14
Rem-UMC 146 LRN____668, 22__768, 14__765, 15_____754, 10_____ 920, 14
Fiocchi 146 LRN______706, 12___809, 21__820, 23_____709, 24_____985, 9
R-P 146 LRN________603, 14___674, 12 697,18_____627,22_____790,10
W-W 146 LRN_______586, 18___593, 36___662, 29____620, 19_____801, 12

Column Mean_______631______687_____705________664________ 855

[3leggedturtle]

Didn’t realize how many others shoot the 38s+w. I’m on my 2nd H&R 925 with a 2 1/2” barrel. Been casting .375 round balls and sizing them down to .360 and shooting them at 10 paces. They are fairly accurate and mild shooting with a bullseye charge. Todd

[smkummer]

Kind of settled on Lyman’s 358477 and 3 grains red dot in my colt PP 4” and bankers special 2”. I just received a bunch of brass from a forum member here and I will bulk load this brass with that load. From this post, if my bullets are dropping at .359 or .360, I will load them as cast.

[Outpost75]

.38 S&W reloading data from the current issue of The Fouling Shot:

.38 S&W Hand Loads Fired in Revolver And Rook Rifle

Firearm__________S&W 32-1___ S&W Reg.Pol.____S&W Victory___Rook Rifle
Barrel length__________2”_________4”_____________5”______ _____20”
Cyl. Gap_____________0.005______.005___________.009____ _____Solid bbl.

Accurate 36-151H
2.5 Bullseye__________629, 8_____724, 12_________674, 12_______836, 22 Factory Duplication Load
3.7 AutoComp________605, 19____730, 19_________732, 20_______964, 15
4.2 AutoComp +P_____754, 26____not fired________not fired______1064, 9 NOT FOR TOP BREAKS! - Do Not Exceed

Accurate 36-155D
1.7 Bullseye__________470, 18____495, 27_________493, 23_______630, 32, Min. to Exit Barrel
2.5 Bullseye__________629, 8_____727, 12_________680, 25_______856, 22_Fact.dup.load
6.3#2400+P_________696, 26____801, 20_________784, 24_______1058, 23 NOT FOR TOP BREAKS

Magtech (Brazil) 158-grain LRN .358” diameter, soft lead cupped base
2.1 TiteGroup________550, 34____632, 20_________614, 17_______762, 14 Very quiet in rook rifle

Accurate 36-176P
2.5 Bullseye________635, 9____680, 12_________669, 19______Won’t chamber in rook rifle
3.0 AutoComp______521, 15____542, 31________558, 23______" Approximates Mk2 velocity

Accurate 36-190T
1.7 Bullseye________485, 9_____545, 15_______496, 18______560, 23 Minimum to Exit Rook Rifle
2.1 Bullseye________547, 15____630, 16_______572, 15______681, 10 Approximates Super Police
3.0 AutoComp+P____668, 4_____732, 15_______674, 20______825, 16 Not for top breaks!
2.5 Bullseye________645, 10____686, 5________704, 8_______800, 11 Not for top breaks!