touch hole liner woes and fixes

[rfd]

so i have this .62 smoothbore that i had commissioned jackie brown (gun maker of non-renown) to build for me in the fall of 2016 that arrived at me in the winter of 2017. a simple farmer's gun, nothing at all fancy. i received it in-the-white, and i stained and tru-oiled the stock. since i had to pull the barrel to do the finishing work, i also pulled the breech plug out and sure enuf, it wasn't anti-seize lubed as i had asked for. looking inside was what appeared to be a burr from drilling and tapping for the flush liner (which i asked to be a chambers white lightning but was a knock-off instead). i used a stone bit on a dremel to smooth down that "burr" but didn't get it flush. the gun shot reasonably well, however, and is very pleasing to hold and shoot, with a very crisp trigger.

https://i.imgur.com/7KJXIul.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0L0qYat.jpg

running down a patched jag would always catch on that "burr". a few days ago i decided to fix it once and for all, pulled the barrel and breech plug, and after careful examination i realized it wasn't a burr, it was the touch hole liner protruding into the chamber. a big no-no. who made this gun? i needed to pull the liner and file it down, but it's a flush liner with no slot and no hex key socket. i oil up the liner and attack it with an EZ-out ... the liner starts to move and ever so slightly raises up - good. then the EZ-out snaps off flush to the liner. cr@p. i really never liked or trusted EZ-outs and i just *knew* it was a mistake.

spoke to my barrel smith in PA, bobby hoyt, and he said i've got real problem due to the hardness of that busted screw - which i knew, but was hoping bobby could throw me a hail mary pass that i could catch. we talked over several possible remedies but all were guesses.

i decided to drill a pair of 3/32" holes on either side of the busted screw and drop in some cut 3/32" music wire and use the leverage of a clamped vise grips to wiggle the sucker out. didn't work. what next?

i put a 1" carbide wheel in the dremel and ran it against the side of a grinding wheel that dropped its diameter to 3/8". i used the wheel to cut a slot between the edges of those 3/32" holes i had drilled, wedged in a gunsmith's appropriate sized screwdriver and twisted counter-clockwise with a bit of downward pressure to keep the blade in the slot. it worked. free at last. amen. a few 1/4x28 touch hole liners on order.

https://i.imgur.com/2dlvjqe.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

new 1/4x28 slotted liners arrived from TOTW within a few days. as expected, the liners were far too long, so i took a piece of 3/32" mild steel and d/t'd it for 1/4x28, then threaded in a liner, vised it and cut it down with a dremel carbide wheel. filed it up a tad and was surprised to see such a good fit on the first try. used hi-temp nikal a/s grease and screwed in the liner, drilled out the touch hole with a .062" drill bit, then vised the barrel again and spun in the nikal greased breech plug. put the gun together, swabbed out the barrel, and i think she's gonna be good to go ... at last. will see this friday.

trivia kudos to anyone who knows where that 3/32" steel plate actually belongs (nope, nothing to do with firearms - electric guitar related).

https://i.imgur.com/Ju4W3cQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/twkCTJw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dOxZhdC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/y948RYK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Y89qGNa.jpg

[Edward]

You sure know how to keep busy when not shooting long :bigsmyl2:

[arcticap]

rfd, I'm feeling kind of blue for you.

Your gun does look quite nice despite the defects that were uncovered.

I happened to Google up a bunch of threads with complaints about Jackie over the last 10 years, some major and others not quite as bad, but still significant.

On a couple of the threads, he actually posted his defense and then exited saying that he will only respond by email.

In some ways you're lucky and in other ways you weren't so lucky.

At least you were able to fix it yourself which is a lot more than many people can do.

I guess it shows that there isn't always follow through when dealing with builders who mostly do business on the internet instead of in person.

Or with a builder who is somewhat known to cut corners and will then attribute it to charging such a low price when a valid complaint arises.

Somehow some important details fell through the cracks which don't seem to be your fault at all.

It seems that he had plenty of time to build the gun properly and as ordered, yet ignored some important details.

I suppose that he probably wanted you to actually send him the Chambers White Lightning to be installed?

But I am curious if you at least let him know about the issues?

If he saw these photos, is there anything that he could have done or said to have helped to either fix the problem or give you more satisfaction than fixing it properly yourself?

I would think that any info. would help to complete the story.

He has publicly stated that his guns have a lifetime warranty, either his or yours. But perhaps that's just nonsense.

[rfd]

arcticap, i entered the smoothbore commission with jackie knowing full well his sordid gun making history, so i have no one to blame for all the problems i've had with this gun. i thought my deal with him would somehow be different and that was my mistake. never ever again, i'd be better off shooting myself in the foot than getting a gun from jackie brown. you have a PM coming with further info.

[nekshot]

If I got in a situation like this I never would send the gun back to original builder. I would hate to see his fix on my gun!

[sharps4590]

That's pretty typical for Jackie. I was given the same treatment, nothing I asked for was done and the touch hole liner was one of them. At least your liner stayed in, mine almost fell out the hole was so shoddily threaded.

Good observation nekshot. I did send mine back the first time then ended up as rfd, repairing everything myself.

[rfd]

You sure know how to keep busy when not shooting long :bigsmyl2:

muzzleloader friday? :drinks: :mrgreen:

[waksupi]

That's a gawdawful countersink he cut for the vent liner. You get what you pay for!

The general opinion of most other builders is, Jackie can take $700 worth of parts, and make you a fine $300 gun.

[sharps4590]

Well...he can make you a $300 gun. Don't know that I would call it fine.

[Edward]

muzzleloader friday? :drinks: :mrgreen:

Absolutely bring what you got,the mule is back [smilie=w:

[Mac118]

I noticed the deep countersunk liner in the last picture too. Was the original liner sunk as deep?

[indian joe]

so i have this .62 smoothbore that i had commissioned jackie brown (gun maker of non-renown) to build for me in the fall of 2016 that arrived at me in the winter of 2017. a simple farmer's gun, nothing at all fancy. i received it in-the-white, and i stained and tru-oiled the stock. since i had to pull the barrel to do the finishing work, i also pulled the breech plug out and sure enuf, it wasn't anti-seize lubed as i had asked for. looking inside was what appeared to be a burr from drilling and tapping for the flush liner (which i asked to be a chambers white lightning but was a knock-off instead). i used a stone bit on a dremel to smooth down that "burr" but didn't get it flush. the gun shot reasonably well, however, and is very pleasing to hold and shoot, with a very crisp trigger.




https://i.imgur.com/Y89qGNa.jpg

I woulda drilled that barrel thread out and tapped it bigger (3/8") then make a liner to fit with a nice big 45 degree cone in behind the touch hole - that gets the main charge right up against the pan priming = instantaneous ignition!!!

[waksupi]

I woulda drilled that barrel thread out and tapped it bigger (3/8") then make a liner to fit with a nice big 45 degree cone in behind the touch hole - that gets the main charge right up against the pan priming = instantaneous ignition!!!

That wouldn't be a bad idea. It appears half of the threads were removed, leaving little for that vent to hang on to.

[stubshaft]

Jackie "Bubba" Brown is known for his mediocre work.

[mattw]

Pardon my ignorance... not a BP shooter. What does that little screw do? Is that how the fire gets into the chamber?

[rfd]

I noticed the deep countersunk liner in the last picture too. Was the original liner sunk as deep?

yes, it was a WL knockoff and filed flush with the barrel.

[rfd]

Pardon my ignorance... not a BP shooter. What does that little screw do? Is that how the fire gets into the chamber?

it's a vent (or 'touch hole') liner. there's a .062" hole in that screw plug and the heat, not fire, of the pan flash ignites the bp in the barrel's chamber.

[rfd]

That wouldn't be a bad idea. It appears half of the threads were removed, leaving little for that vent to hang on to.

no barrel threads were removed. the vent liner is in solid. however, i have been thinking of drilling out the barrel for a 3/8" chambers white lightning vent. i think there's enuf room on the flat.

[indian joe]

no barrel threads were removed. the vent liner is in solid. however, i have been thinking of drilling out the barrel for a 3/8" chambers white lightning vent. i think there's enuf room on the flat.

That would be a good plan I reckon - get rid of his lousy threading job and a 3/8th coned liner lets you get the main charge up close even with coarser powder (seems my homemade rig is the same idea as the Jim Chambers ones - no mystery really - just common sense working)
I shoot a little homebuilt flinter with a CVA/Dikar lock on it (yeah I'm cheap) have had a swarm of blokes tell me I should buy a decent lock for it but every time I walk off the line I get a comment or several about how quick that little gun fires !!!

[rfd]

i talked it all over with jim chambers last night. the game plan is to first drill and tap for a 5/16x32 WL liner and see how she goes. if need be, i'll open that up to 3/8x32 and file down any of the liner past the flat. at this point, i'll take function over form any day. i suspect i'll be happier with the 3/8 liner. since i've already troughed the breech plug, the touch hole itself lines up smack into the middle of the plug, as it should be.

227468

[indian joe]

i talked it all over with jim chambers last night. the game plan is to first drill and tap for a 5/16x32 WL liner and see how she goes. if need be, i'll open that up to 3/8x32 and file down any of the liner past the flat. at this point, i'll take function over form any day. i suspect i'll be happier with the 3/8 liner. since i've already troughed the breech plug, the touch hole itself lines up smack into the middle of the plug, as it should be.

227468

I am gonna have to show my ignorance and ask ya -- whats the story with the troughed breech ?? you have a hole coming out the back of the breech plug just clear of the rear of the barrel tube? is this some kind of cleanout screw device ?

[Mac118]

I'm guessing that hole accommodates one of the lock thru-bolts.

[KCSO]

I would want the liner flush with the outside of the barrel flat and perfectly smooth, file and polish. Since the threads and countersink are bad I would go up one size to 5/16. While the breech plug is out take the back face and polish it smooth and buff to a mirror shine and the gun will clean easier. I have guns I made 10 years ago and if they were kept clean you can still shine a light down the muzzle and see a reflection.

[rfd]

I'm guessing that hole accommodates one of the lock thru-bolts.

yes, through bolt for the lock.

[rfd]

emailed with jim last nite, ordered out a 4 of his WL liners, will give the 5/16" a go first.

[indian joe]

yes, through bolt for the lock.

Eyes played tricks on me - you have a groove across the front face of the breech plug (troughed it) then the thru bolt hole at the back - dont ask me how my brain and eyes connected the far end of that fresh trough with the bolt hole - but they did !!! :killingpc Saw it goin in the front off side and comin out the back ! -----no wonder I pull one in to the five ring sometimes :bigsmyl2:

[scattershot]

Yeah, I had Jackie build me a gun a few years ago. Mediocre wouldn’t begin to cover it. It was not close to what I ordered, and the workmanship was so bad I sent it back. Can’t recommend the guy at all. Glad you’re getting yours straightened out.

[rfd]

with the real jim chambers liners and d/t's, both 5/16" and 3/8", several of each, having arrived a few days ago, this afternoon i had the time to forge ahead. locked the colerain OTR barrel in the drill press clamp, lined up the for the 5/16x32 liner bit and had at it. the resulting hole took out a lot of the original countersink.

before - jackie's knock-off 1/4x28 flush liner and uber deep countersink ...

https://i.imgur.com/MiAyJ35.jpg

... drilled open the original vent hole, which removed a bunch of the original countersink ...

https://i.imgur.com/teumS7B.jpg

... then i tapped the hole ... it looks reasonably deep on the front (facing the muzzle) and sides ...

https://i.imgur.com/eSdtEb5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2hHC4wG.jpg

... but less threads for the back because jackie drilled into the breech plug face and created a channel in it ...

https://i.imgur.com/LGmOzUp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3a4dG38.jpg

... installing the vent liner - i can't get it in all the way, there's a whisker's space visible.

i guess that's ok and i'll just file it flush after cutting off the plug end ...

https://i.imgur.com/WvzdBmt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qLmRGxm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vm3U6Wc.jpg

there's a bit of the liner into the barrel.

need to mark and file off or the breech plug would hit it when i screw it back in.

https://i.imgur.com/uMZcklm.jpg

[reivertom]

I always wondered why his guns were so much cheaper than other builders....now I know.

[rfd]

all done. turned out real nice. will test it out friday.

needed to file off about 1/16" so the liner would fit flush inside the barrel. drilled and tapped a piece of steel so that i could do the filing and then freshen the threads when the liner got backed out ...
https://i.imgur.com/i88sLbu.jpg

screwed in the liner and breech plug, using nikal anti-seize lube for both ...
https://i.imgur.com/ep47RZy.jpg

hacksawed off the nub ...
https://i.imgur.com/cYOSoHy.jpg

filed it flush ...
https://i.imgur.com/8uZFkDv.jpg

drilled the touch hole out to .062" and installed the barrel back to the stock ...
https://i.imgur.com/rkVWmNc.jpg

[Maven]

Great tutorial and nice fix, Rob!

[waksupi]

Well done.

[rfd]

ah, so much better. she fires off quite well now, indeed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73GgQQ97LNc

[Buzzard II]

Nice work Rob!
Bob