Talk to me about a 218 Bee .

[Harter66]

I don't recall ever seeing it but I suspect it may have been an estate gift a couple of times over to my Dad , but I don't know that . What I do know is Dad only had one lever gun a JM 1895C in 357 that I gave him as rent for an A5 Magnum .....
Moving along . That means that it is a bolt gun and it may have been a gun smiths tinker piece . I have a 222 , & 223 so a cool little 22CF that will turn down to angry 22 mag and up to 200 yd coyote popper fills no space other than cool factor . What I know about the cartridge is probably in bold print on a bottle cap . It's surprisingly fast for it's capacity , brass is not particularly available , stretch is said to be a problem .
I think I can probably find some Win or Starline even if I have to start with something else like 32-20(?) or 25-20 . I'm comfortable with eliminating the stretch with a heavy bolt closure the first time .

So regale me with your tales of the 219 Bee , good , bad , crushed cases , poor bullet choices , cast suggestions , how Pop Pop killed that moose back in 46' .

[texasnative46]

Harter66,

MAYBE I'm NOT the right person to ask as I have both a .22 Hornet & (at least until my Darla "adopted it" & now calls it, "My little carbine",) a Model 7615P Remington pump-rifle in 5.56mm NATO.

The Hornet in 2018 can be up-loaded to nearly equal the Bee & without the other problems that the Bee has, like cases that often SEEM to be made of "Unobtanium".
Otoh, presuming that you reload, the 5.56 NATO can be loaded to FAR exceed anything that is safe with the Bee & can be easily loaded-down to "pump-up pellet gun" power, too.

Therefore, I see the .218 Bee as "too much trouble" to be fooled about with, except IF a person already has a suitable rifle in .218 Bee & wants to hunt/target shoot OR just likes shooting unusual caliber weapons.
(I "plead guilty as charged" to LIKING "oddball caliber" rifles. = For example, I routinely hunt with a Model 1910 in .401WSL, that once belonged to an East TX sheriff, who once was a close friend of my grandfather's. Also, until I "gave up" & gave it to my niece, I had hunted varmints/WT with "the said to be utterly obsolete" Model 760 in .244REM, that I bought in "as new" condition from a pawn shop in 1966 for 60 bucks. = The .244REM is a "tack-driver", using 75 & 90 grain JHP.)

An OFF-TOPIC note: I guess that I'm "just a sucker" for my "PURTY GRRLS", as in addition my beloved Darla "adopting" the 7615P that I had looked for for > 2years, my 27YO niece "borrowing" THE ,244 REM until I told her to "keep it" AND by my adult/adopted daughter "helping herself to" my Makarov pistol, saying, "Daddy, this little gun 'is WAY too girly' for a big guy like you to carry. I think I'll take it home with me." = Since that day, I've NOT even seen the MAK, except "peeping out of" the back pocket of a pair of size 8 CHIC jeans.

yours, tex

[Texas by God]

My dad (89) shoots his Marlin 1894CL very well with an 80's Tasco 4x on it. I've printed several one inch groups with it and a Win 43 I had. I found it to be much more accurate and reloader friendly than any .22 Hornet I've had. Starline will make brass someday perhaps but we have a cache JIC.

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[country gent]

Where the hornet bee and wasp shine is use in lever actions and single shots the rimmed case lends itself to these actions extraction. I have a bee on a martini cadet action that's a fun good shooting rifle. Brass can be hard to find at times but a couple hundred should be a lifetime supply. Once trimmed and sized to fit the chamber Ive had very few issues with the brass.

[10 ga]

Had a very nice Browning lever in 218B. Best feral feline, groundhog and turkey rifle with open sights I ever had. Sold it when I became a SML addict and needed $ for a build. Still feeding the addiction. It was a great carry and hunting medium size game rifle. 10

[PB234]

Couple years ago CZ manufactured their excellent 527 American in .221 Fireball. Brass is easy to come by. Ballistics just a bit more capable than the .218 Bee. Might be worth considering as folks report outstanding results.

[Bent Ramrod]

I had a Low Wall in .218 Bee for a time. As far as I could see, it didn’t do anything that my other Low Wall in .22 Hornet didn’t do just as well, so I unloaded it after the “Bee Experience” was finished.

The nominal velocity increase doesn’t translate into any practical extension of range over the Hornet; nor did any loading I tried hit any harder.

Harder to find cases and loading dies. A well-breeched single-shot rifle won’t stretch cases like the lever repeaters might. So at best, it’s just whatever floats yer boat.

[Harter66]

As mentioned in but maybe not clearly it was my Dad's and most likely estate gifted to him it is mine now but living with Mom . So it's not like it's a wish/bucket list cartridge or something like that . If by some chance it is a Martini I know exactly who/what to do with it . If it's a Sako or M43 then it's just another rifle for the grands to enjoy with Papa . I just thought you guys might have some good advice about the cartridge and points about not wrecking cases ....... I don't need another 22 . If Mom's 22-250 my 222 or my granddaughters 223 bolt guns don't fill out everything you could want from a 22 from an angry 22 mag to pink misting western jackrabbits at 300 yd odds are pretty good I'm doing something wrong or I need to bust out an AR .

[weik]

Had a no. 1 b in 218 bee in the 90's . it was accurate but no more so than the hornets I now have. still have a stash of bee brass for future purchases

[rockrat]

I have a #1a in 218 bee. Had a #1a in 22 hornet too. Decided I only needed one, so sold the hornet (way too cheaply, found out it was one of around 200 made and worth $$).
I have only loaded 50gr vmax in it so far, using Lil Gun powder, but it will shoot around 3/4" groups @100yds too!! 3000 fps. Lucked into 200 new cases last gun show, so I am set. Set your dies so you won't overwork the brass and you should be fine. Be careful in loading so you don't crumple a case.

[quack1]

I have a Winchester model 43 Bee. Good little cartridge, very accurate in my gun. With jacketed bullets it will easily shoot under an inch, 40 and 45gr Sierras. IMR 4227 and 4198 work best. I shoot Lyman #225438 with 4227 and also get less than 1" at 100 yds. Use small pistol primers with cast for best accuracy. I never had any trouble with case stretching, in fact, I'm still using the same Winchester cases I bought around 30 years ago. I anneal necks every 4-5 firings. Maybe I'm careful or just lucky, but I have never crumpled a case while loading. That includes 218, 25-20 and 32-20. A few hundred ground hogs went to the big soybean field in the sky with both jacketed and cast bullets out of that Bee in the last 30 years.

[Wayne Smith]

Now that Grumpa is gone brass may be a little more of a challenge unless you are willing to form your own. I believe that the 32-20 is the base? Starline makes good brass.

[Harter66]

Being the kind of guy that make 256 WIn mag rimless out if 223 or even 22-250 from neck cracked 06' or x57 I think I could do it .

[Texas by God]

It's drama free- unlike the Hornet.
As long as you have brass.

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[Jeff Michel]

A Bee will do everything a Hornet will do for fifty more yards. A Hornet is not a Bee. If you push a Hornet to hard, make sure you have a broken case extractor with you. I have fired thousands of each caliber and have had countless head separations with a Hornet and maybe three or four with a Bee. Like them both but they are different.

[MT Chambers]

I would "MASHBURN" any Bee just like I would "K" any Hornet.....my .218 Mashburn Bee is lights out on varmints, easy fireform, extra velocity and cases last forever, unlike the std. Bee.

[texasnative46]

MT Chambers,

Whether loaded HOT or loaded DOWN to below .22LR velocity, the 5.56x45 NATO, .222 and/or .223 are better in every way that the Hornet OR the .218 Bee. = As I said, unless you already have a Bee and/or a Hornet (as I have a Hornet), I can see little reason to bother with buying either in 2018.

Fyi, I know a guy here in SA who uses his AR15 "Runner-Runner clone" (w/1-8 twist barrel) quite successfully, for hunting everything from squirrels, rabbits, varmints to Axis & WT with it.
(Like me, he reloads.)
As the old saying goes: FEAR the 1-gun man.

Note: Fwiw, my "brother of the heart" worked up a SMALL GAME load for me, using a 150 grain PBCB, that KILLS small game well in both .300SAV or .30-06 @ <1400FPS. = It passes through the small game at .30 caliber & passes out the other side of the body the same size & damages little edible meat nor the pelt.
(My "PU truck gun" is a circa 1960 Model 760 in "ought-six".)

yours, tex

[MT Chambers]

The Mashburn Bee is a rimmed cartridge well suited to the single shot actions of today and yesteryear, it uses 10 -15 grains of powder, in my CPA it recoils little and is nice and quiet. 3300 fps is possible although I don't push it. Both the rifle and the cartridge are super accurate with groups well under 1/2", and are best for those that don't want the same cal. or rifle as anyone else. The double set triggers trip at just ounces and the heavy half octagon Badger barrel sends it's pills down range after gophers, coyotes, etc. The 20X Unertl scope keeps it looking like a 50s automobile, all class, and no plastic anywhere.

[Wis Tom]

I have 1 Model 43 Hornet, and 2 Win model 43 218 Bees, one of the most accurate guns we own. I reload the Sierra 22 cal 45 grain SP #1110 with 13.3 grains of H4198, and it will shoot under 1" for almost anyone. I was blessed by someone here, on this site, with over 600 rounds of 218 brass, and multiple old boxes of Super X. One of the bees, is my wife's favorite guns. Reloading is done on a RCBS, and I have no problems with brass, one at a time. Some of my brass is on it's 3rd time reload, and I have lost 2 to crushing, so far, out of the 600.

[Harter66]

Sadly I discovered that the gun in question is in fact a Savage 917 VS .....
No need to reload for a 17HMR . I wonder if there is a CF bolt available . 17 Rem ...... More research .......nope I'll leave it alone .

[Baja_Traveler]

Forming 32-20 to 25-20, then to 218 Bee is super easy with a small investment in dies. I have two Bee's to feed - a Martini and a Marlin and I like them both.

227977

[edward hogan]

Always thought the .218 Bee was a great choice for handloader looking for .22 win mag (rimfire) results on economical terms. 2200 loads per lb and a cast boolit under 40gr... Cheaper than shooting .22lr back in the shortage days.

But... There's the Ackley Improved Hornet... More versatile; if you're deciding. Bee brass is rarified stuff; Hornet more available.
As I have .223rem and a nice 74gr mold, I can spend another cent or two and go with what I got.
But who says loading and casting isn't just about the fun and satisfaction of the exercise?
Always thought the .22 Jet was a cool number too...

[TCFAN]

I was all set to buy a rifle barrel for my TC Encore in 22 Hornet.I happened to be in a flea market where I found about 600 or 700 hundred new unfired 218 Bee winchester unprimed brass for a very good price.I bought them all and ordered a 22 inch stainless barrel from MGM chambered in 218 Bee.
I have tried several jacketed bullets in several different loads and they all shot pretty good.But I wanted to use the 218 for cast boolits. My favorite load is the NOE 45 grain wide flat nose GC boolit with 11.5 grs. of IMR4198.This is a very good shooting load and I have killed about 40 different yard varmints in the last 3 years or so.
I also use the NOE copy of the 225107 37 gr. boolit with 2.6 grs. of bullseye for small game and general plinking.

I like the 218 very much and have not had any problems at all loading or shooting.I also load and shoot a 10 inch 22 Hornet barrel for my Contender and had a lot of head separations until I learned that I needed to neck size the brass.

[Rodfac]

I've loaded for a Browning M65 .218 Bee for twenty years or so, and can readily agree that brass can be a problem but Mid-South has it now, this evening: Hornady make; $36 for 50 cases.

Loading for that handy lever gun, I've had good luck using Sierra, Nosler and Hornady 45 gr Sp and HP jacketed bullets. I also cast using 20 year old Lyman's 225438 gc & 225415 gc. My alloy is ACWW's with 2% tin added then sized to 0.225". Currently I'm using 50-50 lube with no leading problems.

Accuracy with jacketed and/or cast runs about the same: +- an inch at 50 yds. I mounted a Tang peep sight, with windage adjustment capability, on it, which helps with precision, and precludes having to drill and tap to mount a scope.

The biggest drawback I see for the Bee is brass availability. Buy it when you see it, and get at least a cpl hundered cases stashed away. While I've formed .25-20 cases from .32-20, with minimal case loss, I'd think that you'd have to add an anneal step somewhere in the process to re-form all the way down to .218 Bee. Baha Traveller's post and pic shows that it can be done, and I, for one, would appreciate a description of his methods. I see that he's got a pair of forming and trimming dies in the pic...how 'bout it Baha? BTW, I do anneal both my .25-20 & .218 Bee brass every 4-5 firings and haven't lost a case to a neck or shoulder crack in years.

Casting the little .22 cal. bullets can be a challenge, though, but when the pot's up to temp and the mold & sprue plate is just right, they pile up quickly. I have a cpl thousand of the two mentioned above laid aside for future use. Of the two, the 225438 is just a hair more accurate in the loads that I've assembled with Win 231, 4227, 2400, & 296. 2400 being the standout at this point, accuracy wise. And I'll also add that annealed Hornady GC's are used with all loads. I don't cull my bullets by weight nor with magnified visual inspection, but do return obvious defects to the sprue cutoff pile. I've found that with .22's, the base must be perfect even when covered with a gc. Any deformity, throws that round out of the group. I'm especially careful about sprue cutoff tear out. It's fatal to good bullets with a bullet of this light weight, and shows up even on 25 yard squirrel loads.

Overall, the .218 is a good cartridge, especially in the lever gun Winchesters and Brownings of my experience, and very interesting to work with...and hey...a pound of WW alloy goes a LONG way when the slugs only weigh 45-50 grains. Good loads can be assembled without a great deal of bother, but ya gotta have the brass to start with...buy it when it's available!!

MY Browning BTW, went to son #2 this Christmas, along with a supply of loaded cast and jacketed ammunition for use on the woodchucks that infest his 4-board horse fenced paddocks. And that leaves me still looking for one of my "grail" guns; a Sako on the tiny 46 action in .218. IIRC, Ken Waters did one of his Pet Load write-ups on that very same gun.

Good luck with your Bee, Rod in Kentucky

[labradigger1]

I’m not going to talk you out of a bee. I am currently making one on a martini henry action.
I’ve always liked bees. Like rodfac said above, buy the brass when you see it.

[dale2242]

Form dies can get expensive.
Powder Valley has Hornady 218 Bee brass in stock.
If you need/want some , I would grab it.
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product-category/reloading-supplies/brass/rifle-brass/?filter_caliber-range-sort-by=218-bee&query_type_caliber-range-sort-by=or

[shtur]

I have some once fired 218 Bee brass and some bullets in the S&S section right now.

[Gaseous Maximus]

I have a Bee, single shot, built on a pattern 1914 British Enfield, which I shortened I I/2 inch. It seems to shoot pretty good, but truthfully, I really haven't shot it that much.

[Rick B]

Care to explain your forming process
Rick

[skeettx]

I have two 17 Ack Bees and one 218 Bee, all on small Martini actions.
So, long ago I bought a BUNCH of virgin brass :)

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Brass for the Bee will give you many more loadings than Hornet cases. One of my guns sold regrets was a Martini Cadet in 218 Bee. I never loaded for the Hornet but friends who did said that case life was very short.