Encore Katahdin Carbine 45-70

[CamoWhamo]

I just put a deposit down on a TC Encore Katahdin Carbine in 45-70 so now i'm waiting the mandatory 14 days for the paperwork to come back (although lately they have been 8 weeks).

While i'm waiting i will be organising dies and a mould (but i may wait until i can get a cerrosafe cast of the throat and bore first).

I only intend to use low powered cast boolit loads in the rifle.

Has anyone had any experience with the Encores in 45-70? What moulds and loads have you tried?

I will be using the stock peep sight initially but i will also look into getting a low power scope so need suggestions on a low power scope that will work well with 45-70 and won't upset the balance and handling of the rifle too much.

[bigted]

I coveted the 45-70 barrel for years for my Encore. Finally landed a new Katiden 45-70 and couldnt wait to shoot it.

Got it out and with anticipation i shoved a 500 grain RCBS loaded shell into the yawning hole in the breech. Powered with some Unique powder and closed the breech with a fine sounding click.

I had installed a silver Leopold 3x9 scope and bore sighted it so was pretty sure it would be on paper at 35 yards.

Thumbing back the adjusted hammer spur and with anticipation i sighted down range ... slipping my trigger finger into the guard ... i settled down for the first of many fun rounds of subsonic 500 grain rounds.

Well i gotta report that this little light carbine came rite to life as i gently pressed the trigger. First thing that happened was a slight pain on my trigger finger which resulted in a small leaking wound on the knuckle of my trigger finger ... the next realization was a very relieved thought that i narrowly missed getting a scope ring around my eye.

Yes it came rite to life and with a fairly large group at 35 yds i realized that the heavy 500 grainers would NOT be part of my loaded rounds for this carbine.

Very light and very easy to swing and carry. I bet the viney maple thickets here in the north west will not give this exelent rifle any trouble. I anticipate some lighter loads doing a bunch better.

Good luck with your lite blaster. It is a brush gun beyond compare. TARGET GUN? Maybe not but handy hunter for sure.

[NSB]

Well, you asked so I'll tell you. I have owned at least seven or eight different 45-70's over the last ten years. A TC Encore 45-70 was one of them. I shoot nothing but light loads (think Trapdoor light) and find any light load will easily kill every whitetail I shoot with it. Regardless of distance or angle, the 400g bullets I shoot are complete pass-throughs. Now, that being said, I got rid of the 45-70 bbl on my Encore. To say the recoil was abusive is an understatement. The gun is way too light for any load I tried in the gun. Could I use it? Yes, but with no joy what so ever. I find any of my Sharps, High Walls, or 1886 rifles to be quite acceptable with light loads. In fact, I can shoot my High Wall at length at the bench and not walk away shell shocked. The Encore barrel lasted about three weeks and then some other person received the joy of ownership. It shot "good enough", but not as good as my other 45-70s. That was part of the reason I got rid of it. If I were to get another barrel for either of my Encores, it would be an MGM or Bullberry. Scopes? I'd look for a Leupold VX-2 2-7x33 for it (look for 4" of eye relief). I wish you the best of luck with your new gun. Hope you have a good dentist also.

[Wayne Smith]

Now I found those problems with the 500S&W the first time I shot it with the 720gr cast! 45-70 with the Gould or my 420 Lee group buy from years ago, at about 1200-1400 fps is a nice shooter. If you don't have one get the Lyman 457122 Gould and have fun.

[45workhorse]

13 to 15 grains unique, 300 to 405 grain bullets. Very very low recoil! 1,100fps + Maybe more in your barrel length.
You can also look on this site for reduced loads, or mouse fart loads!
Red dot is also good for the 45-70, I haven't worked to much with it in this caliber though.
Do not know what you have available down in your neck of the world.
Have fun be safe.

[PaulG67]

I have a TCR87 45-70 and had the same problem. For most people I believe it is too light for the caliber. Like bigted I loaded up a heavy boolit for the first rounds I fired from it and my surprise at the recoil was "HOLY FREAKING FREJOLES BATMAN". Switched to a 350 grain boolit at about 1200/1400 fps and still it hit hard but manageable. I should note I have not shot it in years because work related injuries to my shoulder.

[Hamish]

Camo,

Unique is your friend, and Accurate Molds has designs all the way down to 165 grains.

[500Linebaughbuck]

unique and 2400(+ tuft of dacron) is your friends.

[Parson]

Once saw an ad for a Contender barrel in 45-70, described as “fired and dropped once”. Local gun shop had a new Baby Rolling Block in 45-70, it weighed 4 1/2 pounds. Dealer said he ordered it by mistake and was going to send it back but somebody bought it before he could. Have tried ever since to talk to the guy that bought it to see what he thought of it after firing it

[Thundarstick]

My very limited experience with my Katahdyn in 500 S&W magnum, what's burning behind the slug and what that slug weighs, takes mine from, "that's not too bad, to some one call me a doctor!". I'm sure you will have no problem finding a load for that 45-70 that'll make you all smiles!

[Rick R]

I purchased a .45/70 Katahdin last year. I shoot NOE’s 350gr boolit over enough Varget to hit 1,850 fps. You know when the primer works. ;) Accuracy is good and I took a whitetail doe last year with it. It’s a great gun to carry much and shoot occasionally.

I put a Leupold 2.5x compact scope on mine. It didn’t mess up the balance and is tough enough to stand up to the “gentle” recoil.

I believe you’re going to like it.

[TheGrimReaper]

Well, I got a Marlin 1895 and she wears a Nikon 2-7x33 and I really like the scope on her. No problems holding zero.

[Hippie44]

I have a Katahdin in 45/70 with a Leupold 1x4. It can be a hand full but, with the right load it will put a smile on your face. I’ve tried a lot of different powder and bullets and settle with Alliant 2400. I’m casting a rcbs 405gr. And a company call GT bullets 320 gr.gchp bullet. I set mind up for a short range 100 yards is a long shot. I found out shooting from the bench you have to hang on tight. Keep your loads let your shooting a trap door and you’ll have a blast.

[Gray Fox]

In my short Marlin guide gun I shoot a Ranch Dog 300 grain, TL GC FP atop a moderate load of 2400 and a dacron puff. Nice light load and for me the dacron puff cuts the group size YMMV. I also shoot the 457122 Gould HP, but I have to Beagle the mold to get it big enough to size to .459. GF

[Moonie]

I have a 500 S&W 15" pistol barrel with scope and a 20" 460 S&W. I might have to get a 45-70 20" to go along with them. I always wanted a 45-70 pistol barrel when I had a 'tender. I have a co-worker with a new color case hardened Henry 45-70. Beautiful rifle.

[CamoWhamo]

Thanks for the replies so far.
I have a lifetime supply of 2400, actually an 8lb keg but that will last me my lifetime.
I also have Plenty of Unique and Trail Boss.

I ordered a 315gn Mould from NOE in last week's sale.

I had a look through the Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 scope yesterday. It will probably be good fit. Eye relief was generous.

This should be fun.

[bigted]

Do keep us updated on your progress. I have not taken time to develop a load for my 45-70 yet. I really like the handy length and balance of mine. I have toyed with the idea of lining it back to 45 Colt. This should be generous powder cap with 300 to 350 grain .454's and yet be very useful. Shame TC do not make a dedicated 45 Colt barrel for the hunter.

[geezer56]

Trapdoor level loads are a breeze. Lever loads hurt. River level loads really, really hurt. I have the Encore and have the scars to prove it

[Ramjet-SS]

I have a set of laminated wood stocks for mine it adds some weight. I also am a huge fan of Unique for reloading the 45-70 I have great load with a 460 hammer from Accurate mould it's a nice easy shooting load and will drive through an engine block. So the gun can be as comfortable as you want to load it to. The Barrel is really accurate and I enjoy mine allot. Full house high level loads have been off the table for me, sure I can handle them but why?

[Wayne Smith]

I probably won't be shooting mine anytime soon. My Ecore is now wearing my 25 Krag AI barrel and fireforming brass.

[Old Coot]

A friend of mine working in a gun shop in Tucson AZ sold a 45/70 Derringer to a fellow in a wheel chair. He came back in the next week wanting to trade in the derringer on another gun. He said that the derringer had only had one round fired from it. Brodie

[CamoWhamo]

A bit of an update (Frid).

Everything fell into place this week. My new mold from NOE arrived on Tuesday morning and my paperwork came later that day so i was able to pickup the rifle on Wednesday.
I cast some boolits (NOE .460-315-RF), coated them with Hi-Tek, sized them to .458 and loaded some with 14gn of Trail Boss in new Starline brass.

Then i discovered the NOE boolit won't chamber when seated to the crimp groove. They were jamming hard into the lands and i had to seat them .065 deeper to chamber freely.
This makes me think that the mold might have been designed for use with the shorter Hornady FTX brass.

It's not really an issue as the crimp groove is not necessary in a single shot. I used a Lee FCD to lightly remove the flare and called it good.

I will look into other mould options after i have fired the rifle for the first time. Hopefully in the next few days.


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[Rick R]

Those are some good looking boolits!

FWIW My Katahdin seems to have a short leade too. NOE’s 460-350 will barely chamber when crimped in the groove, they are fine in my Marlins. But they shoot so well I just keep using them.

[CamoWhamo]

Those are some good looking boolits!

FWIW My Katahdin seems to have a short leade too. NOE’s 460-350 will barely chamber when crimped in the groove, they are fine in my Marlins. But they shoot so well I just keep using them.

That's interesting. The 315gn that i'm using and the .460-350 you are using both have identical noses. I can chamber them when crimped in the groove but there are marks from being jammed into the rifling. I hope mine shoot as well.

[Rick R]

Mine get marked too. My H&R Buffalo Classic was worse. I may get someone to lengthen the leade eventually but hate to “fix” a gun that shoots great groups.

[Neverhome]

I had the same experience as some on here. Fine with light loads but if you go anywhere past middle of the road the gun is just too light and will tear you up. Especially the overtravel screw in the back of the trigger guard. That will take a chunk out of you. I had a heck of a time keeping the scope from shifting in the rings also. Recoil is rough. Loaded light it's a fun gun to tote. Light and easy to put on target.

[Arisaka99]

Now I found those problems with the 500S&W the first time I shot it with the 720gr cast! 45-70 with the Gould or my 420 Lee group buy from years ago, at about 1200-1400 fps is a nice shooter. If you don't have one get the Lyman 457122 Gould and have fun.

My wife has a love affair with Wayne's 45/70. She's a little thing at 5'2" and shoots full bore 45/70 loads better than myself at 6'5".

Now I have to get her one of her own.. :lol:

[Whelen]

That's interesting. The 315gn that i'm using and the .460-350 you are using both have identical noses. I can chamber them when crimped in the groove but there are marks from being jammed into the rifling. I hope mine shoot as well.

With the NOE 460-350 in my Marlin and Ruger in need to trim my cases to 2.070" to utilize the crimp groove. Ticked me off at first but, once I got a few hundred cases trimmed it really didn't matter.

[Wayne Smith]

My wife has a love affair with Wayne's 45/70. She's a little thing at 5'2" and shoots full bore 45/70 loads better than myself at 6'5".

Now I have to get her one of her own.. :lol:

Yeah, you do, now especially that I have my 25 Krag AI barrel on it!

[robg]

Well, I got a Marlin 1895 and she wears a Nikon 2-7x33 and I really like the scope on her. No problems holding zero.

my slb wears that scope to suits it well with the 75 yard parallax

[FergusonTO35]

A friend of mine working in a gun shop in Tucson AZ sold a 45/70 Derringer to a fellow in a wheel chair. He came back in the next week wanting to trade in the derringer on another gun. He said that the derringer had only had one round fired from it. Brodie

Should have told the guy he could load blanks in it and propel himself like a rocket!

[Rick R]

Well I wonder if Camo Whamo survived shooting the Katahdin?

[CamoWhamo]

Well I wonder if Camo Whamo survived shooting the Katahdin?

Yep, sure did.

The loads i made with the 315gn NOE mold and 14gn Trail Boss were a lot of fun. They were getting 1180fps and there was some recoil but it's not unpleasant at all. I fired 50 rounds in a couple of hours and did not have any soreness or issues afterwards.

The Trail Boss loads were shooting way too high though. At least 12" high at 50m.
So i went home and found a Skinner Bear Buster front sight in my parts bin which matches the barrel contour just fine. I had to drill it out to accept the 8-40 screw and turn the screw down a little to fit but it looks great and works well.

I got an RCBS 45-325 FN mould which drops at 433gn and chambers just fine in the short throat. I loaded some up with 30gn of AR2207 (H4198 in the USA).
These loads were 1250fps and the recoil was more noticeable but manageable.
They were nowhere near as fun though and after 30 shots i was done so i let a few other range users let off the remaining 20 rounds.

The taller front sight brought the POI down to exactly where i wanted it.

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[Rick R]

Nice!

Welcome to the .45/70 rabbit hole.

[kidmma]

i've got to add about that short lead, even if the barrel locks closed be sure you can cock the hammer..... ask me how i know.....

[kidmma]

Oh ya, Mild to Wild indeed.

That wild is over-rated!!

[DW475]

I ordered the Katahdin in 45-70 as well and received it before the holidays hit. Test fired some black powder cartridge loads the other day and found the recoil was easy to manage but wasn't impressed with the accuracy. The rear peep is adjusted to the lowest possible setting and it was shooting close to 24" high at 25 yards. It was consistent with all the cast boolits I tested in the 350-450gr. I'm thinking I may need to change out the front sight as I haven't determined if I want to scope this one or not.

[CamoWhamo]

DW475, it's a phenomenon i've seen with several 45-70 rifles and light loads. They always seem to shoot way high.

The skinner Bear Buster front sight (Single screw model) works great on mine and brought the POI down. You will also need a larger 8-40 screw which Skinner can also supply.

[JFE]

I think your chambering issue might be due to applying HiTek. While you sized the bullet down to 458 before applying the Hitek, the nose would now be a larger diameter.

You might want to try a bullet for fit without sizing or HiTek added. If it fits you could try to size the nose down in a separate operation before adding the HiTek coating. Those HiTek coated bullets look really good.

[CamoWhamo]

I think your chambering issue might be due to applying HiTek. While you sized the bullet down to 458 before applying the Hitek, the nose would now be a larger diameter.

You might want to try a bullet for fit without sizing or HiTek added. If it fits you could try to size the nose down in a separate operation before adding the HiTek coating. Those HiTek coated bullets look really good.

JFE, I size after coating. My most recent batch of test loads are not coated and using normal lube. No difference with the seating depth. I hand seated a bullet way out in an unsized fired case and chambered the round, then measured the OAL to find the seating depth.

[JFE]

Perhaps the bullet was originally designed for shallow microgroove rifling and your Encore has deeper rifling ?

[308w]

You know when the primer works. LOL
I just got one of these, I hope mine will shoot well.