Saw My First Winchester 1895 Today

[Jkrem]

My local gun shop has a Winchester 1895 in 35 WCF for $1,700. Not fully original, at some point someone put a recoil pad on it, and a dovetail blank is where the original rear sight would be. Has a model of Lyman side mount receiver sight I have never seen before, and I plan to research the sight just out of curiosity. Action is smooth as butter, but it has seen use and has maybe 40% of the finish with the remainder the typical Winchester silver grey nickel steel I’ve seen before from handling over the years. Bore was bright with strong rifling which surprised me as I assume these were originally black powder cartridges. Tag said it was made in 1915. If only these things could talk, it is an amazing piece of industrial art but sadly beyond my means.

[Nueces]

Do a google image search for Lyman 21 or 38 and see if one of those isn't the sight on that rifle. Most of the pictures you'll find show a Win 95.

[Time Killer]

Love old guns. hmmm seem to love new ones to. :Fire:

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There might have been some for black powder cartridges, but the majority of them were made for smokeless even from early on. The main feature of the action was that it, having an internal box magazine, could utilize the more powerful cartridges of the day like the .30-40 Krag and .30-06. But, in those days, the primers were corrosive even if the power was smokeless, so the good bore is more an indication of regular and proper cleaning than being a black powder survivor. I wanted one for years and years and finally connected with one in .30-40. I still have it, and enjoy playing with it, but if I was "back in the day" and given a choice of the 1895 or an 1894 I'd take the '94 for better balance.

[Jkrem]

Yes, Nueces, it was a Lyman model 21 or model 38 sight, but not sure which one. Thanks.

[Drm50]

I have a original 1895 Win in 30/06 and have had it for years. It is heavier than a 94 but makes up
for it in accuracy. Runs as smooth as a 86. I've always wanted one in 405. Before the collectors got
in the game 30/06 & 30/40s were the only ones people wanted. The biggest part of 1895s were made in 7.62x54mm Russian during WW1. Some were made for Export in 303 Brit. The Win calibres
made for 1895s didn't do that well. There was nothing wrong with them but they weren't that much
better than cartridges already on the market. The 405 is a powerful cartridge and lived up to hype.
Most people didn't have a use for something that powerful so there's not that many of them floating
around.

When buying 1895s in 30/40 beware. This is one that shysters screw 30/40 barrel into a Russian
action. They can be spotted by screw holes for cartridge clip guides that were ordered on Russian
contract 7.62x54s. Before paying big bucks for these do a little research so you don't get burnt.

The remakes are nice rifles but they just ain't the same as a original.

[Dan Cash]

The 95 was made for smokeless cartridges even though some chamberings may have been transition cartridges. Bad bores do not come from using black powder, rather from the very corrosive primers used at the time. With the black powder cartridges, the gun got washed out after firing which removed the black powder fouling as well as the corrosive primer residue. With the advent of smokeless powder, people got lazy and did not see a need to clean the gun after firing. 24 or so hours later, they realized the error of their ways.

A 95 Winchester is likely the finest lever action ever built by Winchester. In rifle length, they balance perfectly just infront of the magazine. My "in the white" 1900 mfg. 1895 is my favorite hunting rifle. It has caused a custon Springfield, a Model 70 and several other rifles to stay in the safe for several years now.

[Nueces]

Yes, Nueces, it was a Lyman model 21 or model 38 sight, but not sure which one. Thanks.

The 21 had drift windage adjustment and the 38 had proper screw adjustment.

[MT Chambers]

The price for that '95 seems pretty steep, my '95 was quite a bit less then that.

[hpbear101]

38-72 and 40-72 were the two black powder cartridges in the 1895. They didn't make very many as smokeless powder made them obsolete very soon after introduction. 7.62X54R Russian contract was the most produced caliber (300,000 or 70%), however not many of those stayed in or returned to the states.

[cwtebay]

My local gun shop has a Winchester 1895 in 35 WCF for $1,700. Not fully original, at some point someone put a recoil pad on it, and a dovetail blank is where the original rear sight would be. Has a model of Lyman side mount receiver sight I have never seen before, and I plan to research the sight just out of curiosity. Action is smooth as butter, but it has seen use and has maybe 40% of the finish with the remainder the typical Winchester silver grey nickel steel I’ve seen before from handling over the years. Bore was bright with strong rifling which surprised me as I assume these were originally black powder cartridges. Tag said it was made in 1915. If only these things could talk, it is an amazing piece of industrial art but sadly beyond my means.Wonderful find! The rest of the responses are spot on - 2 blackpowder rounds which was Winchester's way of hedging against that new fangled smokeless powder, and 6 smokeless offerings (30 Army, 30-03, 30-06, 303 British, 35WCF, 405WCF). Count that to 7 if you count the 7.62x54R, and 8 if there ever were any made for 236USN as is shown in several vintage ads. The Lyman could actually be a factory add on, and that a Climbin' Lyman is almost expected in many of them. Your price point isn't necessarily out of range, I have paid that for a few - but not with an add on butt plate, and they are in fantastic condition. I have always found it a bit curious that the entire purpose of the box magazine was to safely utilize spitzer type bullets, but ALL of the rounds I mentioned above were sold exclusively with long round soft point projectiles (save for the '03 and '06 - but even they also had round nose offerings as their standard Winchester hunting ammunition) .
We encounter quite a few of the 303 Brits in the northern states as they were the most requested for Canadian import I understand. The Russian Empire rejected many of the rifles built for them prior to shipment and it is my understanding that these were sold off to the US civilian market. I have one that did make it to Russia and back, and also have the US musket style counterpart that was taken to Kettle Hill by Teddy.
All are incredible pieces of engineering that testify to the genius of John Moses Browning, and will likely all be worth quite a little more than their current sale price.

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[avogunner]

I can only echo the affection the others have expressed about the 1895 Winchester. That was on my bucket list for quite a few years but I finally found a nice one a couple of years ago. Actually it's a rather "newer" model manufactured in 1923 and in my favorite caliber .30 Govt. 06!! Mine is regular at the range and I can't wait to take it on a hog hunt. The only thing I would do to it is add one of those Lyman sights mentioned.

227273

You won't be disappointed if you get it.
Semper Fi.

[smokeywolf]

The Lyman 41 peep was also used on quite a few Model '95s.

[Rick B]

1895 Winchester’s are outstanding Leverguns. When it comes to rear sights nothing beats a Climbing Lyman, whether it be a Model 21 or 38. One of these sights on a 95 completes the look. Also great to use when switching from jacketed ammo to cast. Sight adjustment is quick and repeatable. Owned a few over the years. Wish I had the two 405’s yet. One was a shotgun buttsolid frame with a Model 21 Lyman. The other was a takedown with a Model 38 Lyman that the previous owner had made a simple durable plywood carrying case . He worked at remote sights on the Alaska Peninsula in the 50’s and 60’s and carried it to dispatch uncooperative Brown Bears. My current 1895 is a 30-03

[Shawlerbrook]

Another 1895 fan with one on the bucket list. The price does seem a little steep for the condition described.

[cwtebay]

I can only echo the affection the others have expressed about the 1895 Winchester. That was on my bucket list for quite a few years but I finally found a nice one a couple of years ago. Actually it's a rather "newer" model manufactured in 1923 and in my favorite caliber .30 Govt. 06!! Mine is regular at the range and I can't wait to take it on a hog hunt. The only thing I would do to it is add one of those Lyman sights mentioned.

227273

You won't be disappointed if you get it.
Semper Fi.Buffalo Arms offers a reproduction Lyman 21. It's around $160 +/- if I remember right. Easy installation, great craftsmanship, and works exactly like my originals. I put one on my daughter's '95 - 35 WCF. She can shoot the lights out with that rig!! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/daf466ee1a571ef41f0af6663de62a46.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/872b826df555885b4ceff1b48d4cd183.jpg

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[avogunner]

......Buffalo Arms offers a reproduction Lyman 21

Yeah, I've seen those and actually just checked recently that they're in stock. Glad to hear that they are a quality sight, thanks! I've got a couple of things on Swappin'&Sellin' and if they get sold, that's where the cash is going.
About your 35 WCF... I've always fancied that caliber but can brass be hard to come by or pricey?
Great pics by the way!

[cwtebay]

Yeah, I've seen those and actually just checked recently that they're in stock. Glad to hear that they are a quality sight, thanks! I've got a couple of things on Swappin'&Sellin' and if they get sold, that's where the cash is going.
About your 35 WCF... I've always fancied that caliber but can brass be hard to come by or pricey?
Great pics by the way!Avogunner
It's my favourite cartridge on the planet!
It's not really that difficult to find - but it can be pricey. There is brass on Midway, loaded ammo on selway armory and Graf and sons, and Buffalo Arms has loaded stuff also.
The absolute best (brass quality and ammo itself) is Kynoch - but wow it's expensive if it's not on sale. I've got enough, but I have messed around with using 30/40 krag (too short), 303 Brit (also short), and shortened 405 brass (I found it too thick and needed to be inside turned), and 9.3x74r (turn down the rim a bit). I have processes that work for me, pm me if you would like it. I have scoured the dark corners of gun shows for original stuff, but found that while I love the boxes, the ammo is often not salvageable - or at least not very long lived brass. Take home story - 35 WCF is a cartridge that got overlooked years ago but is still one of the best offerings ever in a lever rifle.
My standard loads are 250gr Woodleighs over IMR4895 @ 2250fps (mimics Winchester's original offering), and 200gr Barnes TSX @ 2525fps. Both are easily 200+yard cartridges, and performance is explosive.

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[avogunner]

Thanks....that's great info. I'll keep my eye out for one in 35 WCF, that's just plain cool!!!
Semper Fi!

[Bazoo]

Off the subject slightly, however on the show The last Alaskans, Ray Lewis has a 1895 Winchester in 35 winchester. Thought it was real neat.

[Gray Fox]

I've had my eye on one of the Miroku '95s in .405, but finding the brass is just crazy. Of course I have three Marlin .45-70 guide guns and even I would have a hard time convincing the Better Half (who shoot and knows guns) that I really should buy it. I have a Browning -Miroku '95from the mid-80s in .30-06 with the Buffalo Arms sight and it sure shoots nice. A friend was going through his odd reloading stuff and gave me a 100 piece box of Hornady 220 RN that shoot quite well with a charge of 4831. GF

[ANick57]

Avogunner
It's my favourite cartridge on the planet!
It's not really that difficult to find - but it can be pricey. There is brass on Midway, loaded ammo on selway armory and Graf and sons, and Buffalo Arms has loaded stuff also.
The absolute best (brass quality and ammo itself) is Kynoch - but wow it's expensive if it's not on sale. I've got enough, but I have messed around with using 30/40 krag (too short), 303 Brit (also short), and shortened 405 brass (I found it too thick and needed to be inside turned), and 9.3x74r (turn down the rim a bit). I have processes that work for me, pm me if you would like it. I have scoured the dark corners of gun shows for original stuff, but found that while I love the boxes, the ammo is often not salvageable - or at least not very long lived brass. Take home story - 35 WCF is a cartridge that got overlooked years ago but is still one of the best offerings ever in a lever rifle.
My standard loads are 250gr Woodleighs over IMR4895 @ 2250fps (mimics Winchester's original offering), and 200gr Barnes TSX @ 2525fps. Both are easily 200+yard cartridges, and performance is explosive.

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I almost added brass availability from Starline as I had gotten some few hundreds of brass from them for mine a bit ago. However, when I went over to their site for a link I could no longer find it offered. I did fire off a note to Starline Sales to inquire about the status of same, will update with reply if/when I get one. *** Edit: Funny part of this, I did get a response from Starline, 'You sure it wasn't Jamison? We've never made it.' Hmm.. so I went and checked and he was right, headstamp was JBA. I replied that they maybe should make some of that and/or .405.. and quit makin' a liar out of me.. :) )***


Graf & Sons showed they had 5 units (20 per unit) Bertrams yet available, empty & unprimed.

Add that to the list CWT had for loaded. One note, Buffalo mentions their loaded rounds are 're-sized' but not the source brass. Might check that out pre-purchase?

As far as the rifle and cost.. I ran across a .35 in pretty nice shape, built in '04, that has mostly handling wear on some edges and wood... character marks if you will. However, if not minty fresh, the blue is almost all there, most of the presumed original stock finish is there.. the Lyman 38 is all there, only the lock lever is a little shiny. The magazine follower has had little traffic over it and the bore is really, really, really, and I do mean REALLY sweet. The trigger *might* be sweeter than that bore.. it'd be a tough call.

I think I shelled out about $400 more than the one you (OP) spotted, but I'd been prowling gunshops and the online thing for a while and had a pretty firm list of what I was looking for. This one actually came out a bit higher on the cosmetics, but with the Lyman 38 on it (I'd have been happy with a receiver mount .. maybe happier), shotgun butt and condition of the working bits, it got to go home with me.

If I was going to criticize the '95, I'd liked to have a bit more length in the magazine, for a bit more case / neck perhaps, but definitely be able to handle a longer, heavier, pointy bullet. 1-12 twist would be fine with the weight and a bit of a BC bump wouldn't be a bad thing. However, that would sound a bit picky. :)227677227678227679

[cwtebay]

I almost added brass availability from Starline as I had gotten some few hundreds of brass from them for mine a bit ago. However, when I went over to their site for a link I could no longer find it offered. I did fire off a note to Starline Sales to inquire about the status of same, will update with reply if/when I get one.

Graf & Sons showed they had 5 units (20 per unit) Bertrams yet available, empty & unprimed.

Add that to the list CWT had for loaded. One note, Buffalo mentions their loaded rounds are 're-sized' but not the source brass. Might check that out pre-purchase?

As far as the rifle and cost.. I ran across a .35 in pretty nice shape, built in '04, that has mostly handling wear on some edges and wood... character marks if you will. However, if not minty fresh, the blue is almost all there, most of the presumed original stock finish is there.. the Lyman 38 is all there, only the lock lever is a little shiny. The magazine follower has had little traffic over it and the bore is really, really, really, and I do mean REALLY sweet. The trigger *might* be sweeter than that bore.. it'd be a tough call.

I think I shelled out about $400 more than the one you (OP) spotted, but I'd been prowling gunshops and the online thing for a while and had a pretty firm list of what I was looking for. This one actually came out a bit higher on the cosmetics, but with the Lyman 38 on it (I'd have been happy with a receiver mount .. maybe happier), shotgun butt and condition of the working bits, it got to go home with me.

If I was going to criticize the '95, I'd liked to have a bit more length in the magazine, for a bit more case / neck perhaps, but definitely be able to handle a longer, heavier, pointy bullet. 1-12 twist would be fine with the weight and a bit of a BC bump wouldn't be a bad thing. However, that would sound a bit picky. :)ANick - I asked Brandon from Buffalo Arms a while back what they were now using as a parent - he said 45/70?! It is feasible, but I think that's a bit more effort than even the 9.3x74.
I haven't ever seen Starline brass in that! Bet if they're nudged they'll do it again, they're very good folks. On a side note - I loaned one of my 35's to a buddy for a pack trip hunt, he anchored his black bear at 175. He said it punched him with authority!

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[Reverend Al]

The price does seem a little steep for the condition described.

That was my first thought too. $1,700 US for a rifle that is not in "collector grade" by any means seems steep? Maybe 1895's just aren't as popular up here in the "Great White North" as they are down south since guns with a "cult" following will demand higher prices? I currently have three 1895 Winchesters, a .35 Winchester rifle (it cost me $350 Canadian), a .30-40 Krag SRC (it cost me $450 Canadian), and a 28" barrel rifle in .303 British with an original "climbin' Lyman" model 21 sight installed on it. I had to pay a premium to get that one since it is in such a popular and desirable calibre (up here in Canada) with a perfect bore plus it had the original Lyman receiver sight on it, so that one cost me $1,000 Canadian. There sure does seem to be a huge difference in pricing on '95's from north to south ...

https://i.imgur.com/2JWxyLE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HML6f77.jpg

[34 Doggunner]

I recall in 1969 at a small gun shop in Costa Mesa CA a barrel full of 95's. Price was $25 your pick.
If we only knew!

[ANick57]

I recall in 1969 at a small gun shop in Costa Mesa CA a barrel full of 95's. Price was $25 your pick.
If we only knew!

Doggunner, it's all relative. :) I recall seeing for sale ads in the back of aviation magazines from the late 60's and early 70's where for a mere $2000 to $2500 you could have your very own P51... and now for $2.5 mil you might get to buy one.

Of course things are different now. How the hell do you lose a planet??

[Gray Fox]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but since Hornady has discontinued the .405 brass, do any of you know of anywhere to get the brass? I can get a new in the box Winchester-Miroku .405, but what is the sense in that without access to brass. GF

[ANick57]

GF,
If you find it, buy enough! Some Bertram showing up on some shelves, https://www.buffaloarms.com/405-winchester-cases-formed-bertram-box-of-20-ber405win. Might drop a note on Starline too. "Dear Sirs, I'm looking for brass for my XXXXX cal Red Rider, etc... "