Hunting with new HP

[sixshot]

I've decided to focus on using a new HP for deer hunting this fall. Recently I've taken 3 different animals with 3 different guns but all 3 were 5 1/2" barreled guns so I've decided to use one of my favorite 4 5/8's old models with this new bullet & see how things work out. The bullet I'm going to use is a 45 caliber 217 gr Maxine Mouth HP breaking out of the chutes of my 3 screw shorty 45. Today was the initial work up day & I started by using 10 grains of Longshot.
Shooting from the sitting position with my back against my truck & knees drawn up (my usual position) I shot the first 3 rounds & checked with the glasses. The group was vertical but all 3 were almost touching. I decided not to make a sight adjustment & loaded & fired the next 3 of the same load. These 3 did the same thing, just made the group string vertical with all 6 shots almost touching but a tick low of my aiming point.
Next up was 11 grs of Longshot & I did make a sight adjustment before shooting the first 3 shots. These were much more centered with one shot going slightly out. I loaded the next 3 & fired using the same hold & was pretty pleased with this load. Didn't use the Chronograph, that will come later. First photo is the 217 gr. Maxine Mouths that are a clone of the Lyman #452190 except for the HP. Second photo is my OM shorty & the 6 shot group at 20 yds sitting.
I'll run a few more groups & see what kind of speed I'm getting, perhaps somewhere around 1000 fps is my guess with this short barrel.

https://i.imgur.com/0QWcNi6h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q2XtFkMh.jpg

Dick

[725]

Nice shooting!

[Tatume]

The bases on your bullets look particularly good, so I'm not surprised at the accuracy. I'll look forward to hearing how they do on game.

[sharpsguy]

That bullet would be a lot more effective without the hollow point. You will not get much penetration with that. A much better approach would be a good, flat meplat about .260-.280 in diameter. the flat nosed bullet will give a much better wound channel all the way through. Trust me.

[Texas by God]

One of those in the lungs of a deer will let the air out quickly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[SSGOldfart]

Nice shooting,I've got to ask what caused you to make a change? Is it just wanting to use your favorite revolver or did you find a short coming with the others you have been using??

[sixshot]

sharpsguy, so how many deer have you taken with six guns? I've been taking them for 50 years & almost always used solids but in the last few years I've decided to experiment with some HP's. The way I've approached it is to slow them down a bit so I get good expansion & still get penetration & I've done both. The secret is correct alloy & velocity. I've taken probably over 100 deer, 11 elk, moose, bears, antelope, lion, big game is 7 different states including Alaska & Africa & I have a pretty good idea how to make a cast bullet work....trust me! My friends & I have shot HP's through bison, large feral hogs, moose & bears so far.

Dick

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sixshot,

Sure hard to argue with hands on experience such as yours, but you yourself state that to make a cast bullet reliably expand you need to have the correct velocity and alloy/hardness and therein is the problem.

You've been there and done that, but I doubt that every critter has been taken at an exact yardage and therefore it also follows that velocities must differ from critter to critter. Again it follows that providing you were able to retrieve the fired bullet you also saw a variation in the resulting expansion or lack thereof.

Likely many of your critters were taken and there was no retrievable bullet which leaves you with a dead critter but nothing to show exactly what the results were. Dead critter but maybe an over expanded bullet or on the other end maybe one that did not expand at all.

With a cleanly taken critter, everyone is happy and the bullet gave excellent performance. But did it?

Therefore, I'll comedown with the Sharps Guy as per using a bullet with the large meplat and not one that will give possibly questionable expansion.

With the large meplat I could care less if my 45/70 or .44mag bullet expands. With my 45/70 I have taken deer at ranges of about 50yds to elk at 161yds and with only one exception on a quartering shot into a big cow elk, every bullet has been a complete pass through. The bullet is a 465gr Wide Flat Nose at a muzzle velocity of 1650fps.

On my first two .44 deer taken last Fall with the little RUGER 77/44 rifle, the 280gr Wide Flat Nose gave a complete pass through, one a side to side at a lasered 95 - 100yds, the other a complete pass through at about 50yds. Muzzle velocity 1750fps.

So, as said, can't argue with your results, but would suggest that a good Wide Flat Nose cast is would be every bit as deadly but also more reliable in hunting situations were we can only control the alloy but not the velocity at impact.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[MT Gianni]

I've been around enough to know I don't know it all. I look forward to more stories with this. How does the lighter maxine group, compared to a 260 gr moving 1200 fps if you happened to have some in your pocket the same day outside?

[dk17hmr]

I need to take my revolvers over to Idaho so you can show me how to shoot them. I'd like to be able to do that with a revolver.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Nice shooting good luck on your hunt

[nagantguy]

Very nice looking boolits; your bases and coating are flawless! I’m also on a HP experimenting kick; with relatively heavy boolits at modest to high velocity they seem to work as well as my beloved wide nose flat points; deer and hogs mostly have been my test medium and n revolver lever gun and muzzle loader. I’ve also been very pleased with accuracy and penetration and expansion tests in .45 acp pistols. I noted very little difference in accuracy, POI my shift from solid to HP but everything is still more than minute of whitetail. As far as effectiveness on game; more testing to be done on my end but I agree alloy is important the old to hard to soft deal that is the central theme of this casting obsession.
Last year I was new in the 357 Maximum game; got some HP boolits from a fine member here and was so impressed I bought the mold; pcd and gas checked they are amazingly accurate at very near top end jacketed velocities. That got the ball rolling in my head. A large doe shot on crop damage permits provided good feed back although no recovered boolit but a very quick kill; with extensive bone and lung damage with a nice exit wound of about .403 and not much blood shot meat tells my these HP cast projectiles can be a very serious game killing tool. Sorry rant off.
Your boolits look amazing and into have a true soft spot for 4 5/8 inch Ruger revolvers. So much that me and my best friend each have one of a consecutively numbered set.

[sharpsguy]

sixshot--I've got to tell you that I have never killed a big game animal with a sixgun. But I HAVE taken my fair share of game with cast bullets, been to Africa three times, killed black and blue wildebeest, a couple of kudu, a couple of zebra, a gemsbok, three elk, a dozen buffalo, a couple of auodad and I don't know how many deer and hogs. Out of all that, I have never lost an animal and have only recovered ONE bullet. One. You will not get that level of dependable pass through penetration with a hollow point bullet. I know a bit about the 457122 Lyman Gould hollow point and quit using it about 40 years ago. Go on youtube and look up "Black powder zebra kill" and take a look at what a Sharps with barrel buckhorn sights and a 480 grain FLATNOSED bullet does at 161 yards. Next time you go to Africa, try that with your sixgun and hollow point bullets. I seriously doubt you'll get the same result.


That hardcast flatnosed bullet has taken game for me at distances from basically off the end of my gun barrel to 540 laser measured yards, and with the Sharps, a broadside elk at 300 yards is a gimme. I have kudu and blue wildebeest, as well as springbok on dvd being taken in excess of 300 yards with that flatnosed bullet.

[sixshot]

Sorry guys, I've been gone to the big city all day running errands, when you live in small town Idaho you have to leave your little piece of heaven once in a while.
So you've never killed a single animal with a six gun & you're telling me what bullet I should use & to TRUST YOU, wow, that's amazing stuff.
If you go back & read I said using HP's is something kind of new for me & that I've always used solids with great success, either Keith style or LBT style & I've killed about everything right where they stood & I've done it over & over & over & I have the photo's to back it up, hundreds of them. This is public land hunting in the western US except for my African trip where, as you know it's the law that you use a PH. It's not the law that you use a rifle or a muzzle loader so no, I have no need to go to another site to look at your kills. I don't even own a rifle.
I'm shooting iron sighted six guns for the most part, some times I use a scoped six gun & almost always carry one with me just in case I need to make a long shot. Last year I did use my Ruger 357 Maximum on one deer & one antelope, the other deer I used my OM Ruger 44 magnum & yes I did use a HP.
The first photo you will see is some Keith style 44 HP's with the "Penta" HP, these are kind of fragile & it's a bullet that you can't run at top speeds or you're going to get in trouble. My load the last 2 years has been 10 grs of Unique, very accurate & remember we're talking six gun range. The small buck was walking towards me across a stubble field & I guessed him at about 50 yds, it turned out to be 64 yds. He was facing me almost straight on when I stopped him with a soft grunt. I hit him square on the right front shoulder bone. This is where you guys jump in & say it blows up & fails right? The bullet broke the shoulder, went through one lung, the intestines & went back & stopped against the left hip bone. So, it almost went clear through him, really surprised me. You will see the recovered bullet on down, it weighed about 182 grs from the initial 240 grs. Good or bad?
The second buck you see is a 4X4 shot the year before with the same bullet at 94 yds with my 10.5" Ruger 44 magnum. The shot went through both lungs & exited. Someone said how do you know how much damage you get if you don't recover the bullet, that's kind of a dumb question. It's not too hard to look at the insides & see what happened & yes there was plenty of expansion but it did exit.
The 2 photo's with the really big HP's were recovered from a very large bull bison & a double shoulder shot on a very large feral hog & the shoulder bones were mush. The bullets started out at 385 grs & after recovery expanded to right at an inch & weighed about 380-382 grs, good or bad?
I've sent that bullet all over the country & guys have used it on everything, I could show you 50 texts or PM's I've received from guys that were very happy, it's a great bullet!
I'm still not sold on HP's after shooting solids all my life but I can say they've surprised me on deer. Also, the one set of lungs you see in the photo's, they came from the antelope I shot 2 weeks ago, they are shot up pretty good considering I shot it at 73 yds with a 135 gr HP from a 327 magnum! Got a rib going in & a rib going out, good or bad? The one cow elk in the photo's I shot with the 260 gr Keith at 168 yds with an OM Ruger 45, iron sights, one shot, lasered by the guy sitting next to me, this was the Keith solid, good or bad?
This 45 slug will work great on deer at six gun range, TRUST ME!

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Dick

[megasupermagnum]

Don't let them get to you too bad, there seems to be a culture on this site that a hardcast flat nose is the best, and hollow points are an all or nothing ordeal.

My experiences mirror yours, hollow points pass completely though. It's hard not to pass through a whitetail, even a big 250 pound buck. If both bullets pass completely through, why wouldn't you wan't a bigger wound channel? I've been playing with cast hollow points, and they seem pretty reliable to me. Using the Forester tool, I can change how much a bullet expands. If anything it's easier in a handgun, a bullet doesn't loose that much speed over 100 yards. If it expands decent at 10 yards, it will expand at 100. That's my 2 cents. Keep up the good work, I like reading real world reports like yours.

[wgg]

Mr. Thompson looking forward to photos of your success with the new HP. You the man.

[winelover]

Interesting thread. I too am making the switch from WFN's to HP's, for whitetail's. Been using the NOE 265 RF in my Marlin 1894 carbine @ 1550 fps cast out of alloy that measures 15-16 BHN. I always try for double lung shots......that's the bow hunter in me. Results were always dead deer but with poor results, as far as tracking and recovery, are concerned. The WFN leaves little or no bloodtrail and the deer are going close to two hundred yards after being hit. Even with an entry and exit hole.

The next deer I harvest with a gun, will be using a HP cast bullet. The RCBS 300 SWC, hollow pointed by Eric, cast from three parts pure and one part lino. Velocity will be @ 1650 fps.

227054

There has been much reference to the correct velocity and alloy but I'm not seeing any specifics. Inquiring minds want to know.

Winelover

[Smoke4320]

Sixguns. Looks like you are doing great.
Keep it up and thanks for sharing

[kenyerian]

Great pictures thanks for sharing. I've also been using HP's more and more the last few years . Great results in the 44 Mag.

[Ramjet-SS]

I am huge fan of cast hollow points for hunting. They work absolutely fantastic. You can get great accuracy and they can be run lower speed but are very lethal on game. It is your choice you make that choice and feel confident that the HP is a great choice.

[Tripplebeards]

Sixguns what crimp style did you use? Looks like it pulled in nicely.

I'm a hollow point shooter as well. There are a lot of hp haters here.lol

As far as I'm concerned if you hit them like I do, bow shots, behind the shoulder and take out the Lungs and heart it should make for an instant, quick, clean kill with a tremendous amount of shock transfer vs a hard boolit that sails right through with the same shot placement. Shot placement is the key and dead is dead. Make sure to post pics and how you did.

[nagantguy]

The various hollow point molds sold here in the group buys seem to be very popular so folks must be getting good accuracy and good results on game.

[mattw]

I have not taken many deer with a revolver, but the few that I did were wonderful. I am a 41 mag guy and I have killed a 325 pounder with the 230 grain OWC from LBT and a 280 pounder with the Saeco 311 230 grain SWC. The SWC appeared to give the most damage visible during dressing. Both were shot at around 75 yards with a moderate load of 2400. I have dropped 2 as well with 357 mags, also 6 inch revolvers. For those loads I use a commercial variant of H110 from many years ago, I suspect it has been known as H108 as it runs 10 to 12% faster than H110. For these I was loading a very old Lyman designed 158 grain HP Keith type and a 200 grain LBT OWC. Both were shot in the range of 75 yards as well. The HP was dropped into my best deer to data, an 18 point that dressed to 345 pounds! It was a monster! The little 158 broke the entry shoulder, tore the heck out of everything inside and stopped in the exit shoulder breaking it badly. The recovered slug was approaching 1 inch in diameter! In IL most of my deer have been taken with 12 gauge slugs, darn state laws! But, I always carry either the 357 or the 41 incase I get a good chance to use one of them!

[white eagle]

I never doubt Dick and his abilities
man is livin the dream
rock on Dick

[sixshot]

mattw, congratulations, those are some really big deer! I'm not surprised because those midwestern deer are some of the biggest deer in the country, many of them are bigger than our western mule deer. Some people don't believe that but it's true. A lot of your deer eat better than ours with the corn fields, etc.
The 41 magnum is one of my life long favorites & I've killed a lot of game with it including elk, bear & antelope along with many deer. The Saeco bullet you mention I think is actually a #411 at 230 grs, I have that same mould & it's a personal favorite. The cow elk in the photo was taken many years ago as she walked up through the sage towards me & my napping neighbor. She was almost facing us but not quite, I had a bit of an angle & put one of the 230 gr Keith slugs tight behind the right front shoulder. She whirled & ran down hill about 30 yds & then started turning around in circles so I couldn't shoot again & then she dropped over.
The bullet had went through a lung, the intestines & all the way back where it exited just in front of her left hip, you can see the fat sticking out of the exit hole right by my old Lawrence #7 shoulder holster. The bullet had almost went through her lengthways! I've also taken elk with the 250 gr LBT WFN, it's a real hammer, broke both front shoulders with an exit.

https://i.imgur.com/EYY41TKh.jpg

Dick

[dubber123]

I always read your stories and enjoy them, but are you sure you have the mold # in your first post correct? I'm pretty sure the 452190 is the Old Ideal/Lyman RF design for the 45 Colt. Maybe yours is the 452423 perhaps?

[Wolfer]

I too have had good luck with HPs. I use the same alloy in everything because I'm lazy or I like things simple. It's about 50/50 or a little softer. Bhn usually runs around 10. In my 45 colt Ive used the 452424 with a semi cup HP and a NOE 454-255 RF with the cup HP. Ive also taken several deer with solids. For me to recover one of my HPs I have to break both shoulders or take a very raking shot. In both cases the boolit will be bulging the hide at the end of the wound channel.
My HPs nearly always exit with a 1" or so hole. Blood trails are generally decent.

The only 30 cal molds I own are a 311041 with a small HP in one cavity and a 311008. The 311008 I just use for plinking but the other has took a good pile of deer and coyotes. Ran at about 1800 fps if it hits heavy bone maybe it comes apart. Don't know, the exit hole is 2" or bigger. If I don't hit heavy bone exit holes are good but not fist sized. Expansion was obvious.
There was one deer shot with my 30-40 that the boolit acted like a nosler partition. 30 cal entrance with about a 45 cal exit but inside looked like a bomb went off. Deer staggered about 10 feet and went down.

Oddly enough deer will go about the same distance no matter which boolit is used. My own experience with HPs has been good and I will continue to use them. Every one else should use whatever they like.
Woody

[sixshot]

Dubber123, the 452190 is the old Lyman design as you mention & I "think" that's what this mould is labeled but I might be wrong, I'll check it tomorrow. Went hunting again today but there was a whole crew of workers right in the crick (creek) for you southern guys, with a couple of track hoes & a bunch of other equipment. I have no idea what they are doing but it must be quite a project & it takes a lot of permitting now days to get a track hoe into a stream!
Anyway, I saw some deer but they were very wild from all the company that had descended on them. Also I only saw maybe a dozen antelope where I have been seeing 3 times that many.
There are no trees in this area, it is very tough to hunt because it's so open. You have to hunt the little draws & pieces of edge cover. I did take a photo of one of the places where the antelope cross under the fence. Antelope will rarely ever jump a fence but they can go under one very fast!
I took this big old buck Jackrabbit at 22 yds with my OM Ruger 45 & the 217 gr HP, it punched his ticket pretty good.
The one photo of the Alfalfa with the pump house in the back ground I'm crawling on my hands & knees, stalking a herd of 7 doe antelope. I probably crawled 200 yds but couldn't close on them because they were feeding away from me. If you hunt antelope it's a real good idea to wear knee pads, I always do!

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Dick

[lksmith]

I don't see why some don't like HP's
The way I see it, if a hollowpoint fails (cavity fills, no exp) it acts as a WFN.
If it works, it makes a bigger hole than a non expanding boolit.

Granted the biggest things I hunt are whitetail and hogs, but I hate tracking and a bigger hole/energy transfer means less if any tracking.

I've only had one that didn't exit and it was a 240gr XTP HP at 1800-1900fps from muzzlaloader on a doe around 100 yds. found it just under the skin on the opposite side. Not sure why it didn't go through as Ihave used the same load, same shot on bigger animals. But the deer cut a flip and was DRT

[jmort]

"I don't see why some don't like HP's"
I doubt anyone cares what other people use. Many here think Lead Bullets Technology is the way to go and others do not. Use what you like. Both are proven.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

IKsmith,

As seen by the length of this thread and others which address the same subject, we like what we like and each have our own opinions, likes and dislikes.

However, I come down on the side of reliability and consistency!

This is the same reason that all my hunting rifles are floated and if wood stocked, the actions bedded. I am very concerned that there be no outside influence on shot placement such as that possibly caused by heat/cold, high or low humidity, hard or soft rest etc.

Talk about wound channel, one of the largest wound channel I've personally had on a game animal was with my first 45/70 deer. That deer taken with a 355gr Wide Flat Nose bullet from an LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) mold with a muzzle velocity of 2300fps. The deer at about 100yds. My first reaction when I began to handle the downed critter was, "just what in the world have I turned loose on the game population." Huge/excessive, like 4" wound channel. The bone and tissue not minced like might be expected with an expanding bullet, simply gone, pushed out a relatively small exit hole in the off side hide.

That one experience alone made me a believer of all the glowing reports I'd read about the results when using a large meplat case bullet.

I believe the "problem" in that situation was an excess of velocity.

Thankfully that bullet gave me neither the accuracy or group consistency I desired with my 45/70 so I moved on with a mold for a 465gr Wide Flat Nose which I push out the barrel at a much more sedate velocity of about 1650fps. Results, providing of course as always good shot placement, the deer are dead where they stood and the elk down in less time then it takes to tell about it.

Same result last Fall on two deer taken with a WFN 275/280gr. fired from my RUGER 77/44 at a velocity of 1750fps. Dead where they stood! Complete penetration.

As we all know, cast bullet expansion is now and always will be a factor of impact velocity and alloy. For that reason I choose the well proven and reliable results found with the large meplat cast bullets. If it expands to any degree, so be it, but if not, I was NOT expecting or depending on it for the desired results.

I use it for the same reason as I float all hunting rifle barrels. CONSISTANCY!

Plus, I am not prone to experiment to the same degree as some other folk. Doesn't make me right and them wrong, that is just my way. I seek to find an optimum bullet/load combination for each rifle and that is what I stay with. One load for each rifle, and the only thing that might keep me "experimenting" is the striving for more accuracy. I already have well proven bullets for both my jacketed bullet hunting rifles and with the cast WFN, for my cast bullet rifles.

Shot to shot Consistency and reliability!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[sixshot]

I checked my bullet mould & it says 453490, it's a Miha mould so it is a clone of the 452190 like I thought. Doesn't really matter, it's a fine looking bullet & I have no doubt it will work just fine. If I didn't think it would I wouldn't use it. In all my 50 years of taking big game with SIX GUNS & cast bullets I've only recovered the one I showed earlier where, even though it was a "Penta" HP it went almost lengthways through that buck after breaking the big shoulder bone.
Crusty Old Coot, I'll remind you again, this thread I started is about hand guns & hand guns bullets, would you go back & read that again. Telling us what you can go with 450-500 gr bullets in your 45/70 rifles or 44 carbines at 1700-1800 fps has nothing to do with what we're talking about here......does it?
If you want to start a thread on muzzle loaders or rifles or carbines start at the top! That would make things CONSISTENT!

Dick

[Larry Gibson]

............The way I see it, if a hollowpoint fails (cavity fills, no exp) it acts as a WFN.
If it works, it makes a bigger hole than a non expanding boolit.........

I concur 100%. I have shot/killed numerous deer, elk on license and as an LEO to put them down along with injured domestic stock with various calibers of handguns using various types of bullets, jacketed and cast. At handgun impact velocities (800 - 1400 fps) I consistently found a soft cast, binary alloyed HP bullet (with an appropriate HP) to give more than adequate penetration and to kill quicker (translate that into less tracking) that any other bullet style including the WFN. Now, with that said, let me further state they all ended up killing the animal with appropriate heart/lung shots. The only difference was how long it took the animal to die. Yes, WFN bullets do kill quite well also but as lksmith said, an appropriate HP "acts as a WFN. If it works, it makes a bigger hole than a non expanding boolit". The OPs bullet will do the same as does my own .44 Devastators except they do expand quite well with usual through and through penetration across the range that I will use them out of my revolver.

227197

I would probably use a WFN soft cast (because any expansion it does increases it's terminal effectiveness) if I did not have a HP mould or the means to properly HP my handgun hunting bullets.

[Went2kck]

I have been trying to get a new HP mold to cast decent bullets. I have gotten some but like a 80% rejection at the pot and probably 8% at the scale and finale inspection before lubing them. Some of those may get remelted after that. The Hp dont form well and just not having good luck with the deep hp pins. I use 2lbs WW with 1lbs of pure lead. some pewter is added to. Any help in this would be much appreciated. Those bullets look really good.

[megasupermagnum]

I cast hotter than most people, I've kind of settled on 775 F as my standard. With very large hollow points and wheel weight alloy, I've only managed shattered bullets in my experience. Most of the time, I don't think it's a big deal. One combo I found was the 44 caliber 250 grain bullet from GT bullets, it is very similar to the devestator. When cast of their 96/2/2 alloy, and driven to 1400 fps (quite possible it was faster), all I recover is shrapnel. The only sizable chunk was the base of the bullet,and I think it only weighed about 100 grains. I would not shoot that combo at a large animal. I like lead/tin alloys for hollow points. They seem to cast better, look better, and no doubt they hold together better.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks sixshot!

I also cast a 310gr LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) Wide Flat Nose that I put out the muzzle of my 5.5" RedHawk at right at 1300FPS.

So I'm not totally clueless on your subject, but just the same, thanks for the comment.

But casting that bullet for the handgun is what brought me to the point of using the same bullet configuration in the rifles.

Thanks once more.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[lksmith]

I have been trying to get a new HP mold to cast decent bullets. I have gotten some but like a 80% rejection at the pot and probably 8% at the scale and finale inspection before lubing them. Some of those may get remelted after that. The Hp dont form well and just not having good luck with the deep hp pins. I use 2lbs WW with 1lbs of pure lead. some pewter is added to. Any help in this would be much appreciated. Those bullets look really good.

Get and keep the pins hot. I tend to run a little hotter than most when casting. since I generally PC my boolits the heat from the coating softens them back up a bit

[jmort]

What Crusty Deary Ol'Coot said.
WFN/LFN will compress, aka expand on impact with the proper lead alloy.
No sane person uses HPs on dangerous game/really big game.
Look, and learn from the Linebaugh Seminars. The HPs are a joke penetration-wise. Look at all the knowledge gained from hunters in Africa. Deer, use a .22 LR or a .30-06. Use a hollow-point. A LFN will shoot end to end on the largest grizzly bears out of large caliber handguns. The HP, not even close.

[wgg]

The first sentence in this thread, the op makes it clear for deer hunting. I don't understand why he would need to penetrate African game or a Grizzly bear. I believe that is something everyone could agree on.

[Tripplebeards]

I have been trying to get a new HP mold to cast decent bullets. I have gotten some but like a 80% rejection at the pot and probably 8% at the scale and finale inspection before lubing them. Some of those may get remelted after that. The Hp dont form well and just not having good luck with the deep hp pins. I use 2lbs WW with 1lbs of pure lead. some pewter is added to. Any help in this would be much appreciated. Those bullets look really good.

Get everything hotter...mold, pins, and your alloy. I run everything so hot I get finning and then I turn my alloy heat setting down from there. I've been learning you can never be too hot when pouring hp's.


Back to hp's for hunting, I've been taught on this site that its critical to pick and or fine tune your alloy to match the speed your shooting to get the desired results. Whether you want a extremely deep penatrating and expanding hp, a deep shedding pedal hp, or a shallow rapidly expanding hp. I played around with four different alloys using a devastator mold that I tested out of my ruger 77/44. I'm not pushing my HP's out of pistols at 800-1200 fps like 99% of the shooters here and am running them up to and over 1800 fps. At full throttle loads(23.8 gr of w296) I've got an 80/20 w12 pewter alloy with a BH of 15.4 that will give deep penatration and hold together make a great mushroom. I would bet my life on this boolit alloy and load combo to smash a grizzly bears skull and keep penatrating all day long. I always get a kick out of "I need a boolit that will shoot from one end of a grizzly bear to the other and out the other end" I can tell you I've shot through black bear doing so and they drop quicker when the boolit expands and stays inside the animal with all its energy transfer dumped inside if it shocking it to close if not an instant death. To much pentration has negative affects...it's like hitting an animal with an arrow. No shock or energy transfer 99% of the time and the animal will die but runs off to bleed out. If I use straight coww with a BH of 13.4 the pedals will blow off and the rest of the boolit will keep going. When tested A 50/50 or 16:1 alloy both acted about the same. At high speeds (1675fps plus)the boolits expand but look like the lead melted while it was doing so. You can check out my home page for photos. Larry along with others here taught me it's crucial to match your alloy with velocity when using hp's and I believe this will put a deer on the ground quicker if done correctly than any sold will with a textbook broadside heart and lung shot.

[jmort]

The first sentence in this thread, the op makes it clear for deer hunting. I don't understand why he would need to penetrate African game or a Grizzly bear. I believe that is something everyone could agree on.

Please read and comprehend my posts. Did you miss this???

" Deer, use a .22 LR or a .30-06. Use a hollow-point. "
There was thread drift directly applicable to my posts. Take it in context.
But more importantly, read what is posted.
I woud use anything beginning wit a 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 and a large meplat.
That is for me, Lead Bullets Technology.
As stated above, use what you like, but keep it real.

[sixshot]

Went2KcK, when you are breaking in a new mould it can take a few casting sessions sometimes to start making good bullets. What you need to proper alloy temp, proper mould temp & proper alloy "flow". Once you get all 3 you should be making good bullets. Preheat your mould by setting it on top of your furnace or you a hot plate with a piece of steel set on top so you don't warp your mould. I just set my mould on top & then usually dip a corner of the mould in the molten alloy for a few seconds to bring up the temp.
Then you might start out by pressure casting, at least at first if you are using a bottom pour pot. That is, hold the mould right up against the nipple on the bottom of the furnace for a couple of seconds to get good fill out, then switch holes & repeat. This usually helps. Now cast pretty fast, watching your sprue cool on top, plus 2-3 seconds so you don't get smear under the sprue plate.
Right away, maybe 5-6 casts, sometimes even the first cast you should be making good bullets. Don't take time to inspect them, keep a good rhythm going once you are making good bullets. I mostly use a 70/30 alloy of wheel weights & lead with a little linotype added to add some tin. My bullets are always powder coated but not water quenched. You don't want to water quench a HP bullet but you might if you're shooting solids.
Inspect for good flat bases, if your bases are flat you are most likely making good bullets, & of course if making HP's check the nose. As mentioned above by others, I run my furnace a bit on the high side, you can always turn it down & I do after a while.
I did run my 217 gr 45 HP's through the clock yesterday & they were running 965 fps, of course that will handle any deer out there at iron sighted six gun range with correct shot placement. A bad hit will always be a bad hit. Good luck!
Also like Crusty Old Coot, when the going gets tough, I use a tough bullet, I've taken 3 elk with the Ruger 45 using an LBT 325 gr slug, all with one shot each, no problem. Match the bullet to the velocity & the intended target.

Dick

[Went2kck]

sixshot, Thanks for the input their It is a new ,old and only used it once. I wont give up to easy but have had better luck with flat nosed and others. I will try putting more tin in the mix.
thanks again for the information. Wish me luck.

Loren

[TheGrimReaper]

Sir, is that Harbor Freight Red PC?

[TheGrimReaper]

sharpsguy, so how many deer have you taken with six guns? I've been taking them for 50 years & almost always used solids but in the last few years I've decided to experiment with some HP's. The way I've approached it is to slow them down a bit so I get good expansion & still get penetration & I've done both. The secret is correct alloy & velocity. I've taken probably over 100 deer, 11 elk, moose, bears, antelope, lion, big game is 7 different states including Alaska & Africa & I have a pretty good idea how to make a cast bullet work....trust me! My friends & I have shot HP's through bison, large feral hogs, moose & bears so far.

Dick

That is a awsome list of game and experience. I hopefully will get to try handgun hunting for white tail this winter. I plan on using a S&W Mod 19. Just got to get her scoped and dialed in and let the experimenting begin!!!

[sixshot]

Yes, it is Harbor Freight Red, I use it almost all the time because it has worked well for me. I also use the gloss black sold by Smokes4320, I think it is, good stuff. It's actually a better quality of paint but I've never been able to shoot any difference between the two.
With good bullets & placement your model 19 will work just fine. I've taken deer with some of mine & also took my Lion with one but the Lion was VERY close!

Dick

[gitu1]

Looks like it is a load that works well for you!