Montana Charlie & Others Please help!

[gcollins]

I just got threw reading the post on the last guy that ask for 45-70 loading advice!
Here is my deal, I will be very great full for any advice or help from you or anyone else!


To start with I am new to the B.P. cartidge loading, i have loaded for 32 years, but never any B.P. untill last weekend!
A real Nice BPCR shooter told me how he loaded his B.P. cartidges and I like the idea of the way he did it, no crimp and cartidge seat my pushing the cartidge in the camber, but I seem to have a problem, i am getting some camber pressure that s blowing the primer back.
So This how I got to were I am, and I could use some help to solve this problem!

When I set this load up, What I did was pushed a bullet into a empty case just so I could get the block closed, then I opened the breech and put my thumb on the case and had my friend push a dowel rod down the muzzel untill it touch the point of the bullet, and then he made a mark on the dowel rod, the i ejected the case and pulled the bullet, and whe did it all over again, Then we took the diff between the marks on the dowel rod, and that is how we came up with the 57 gr and the 60th wad. The reason I left the bullet out is that a lot of BPCR shooters push seat there bullets! I got my calipers out just like you guys told me to do, and they measured 2.968, so I reseated the bullets a little deeper and, at a 2.960there go right in.
What I need, is some one that shoots a 500gr Postell bullet in a 45-70 and give me there lenght? The books all show round nose, flat nose, ect. at 2.550! If I seat my bullets at 2.550 there will be 46thou jump befor the touch the lands!!

I could realy use some major help I hope that Steel Horse, and FJ, and Gw, and others will jump in and help me figure this out?

I would be very greatfull!!
ACE

[Nueces]

Ace, I'm not one of the mentioned dudes, but I can tell you to rest easy on your overall length. That 2.55 recommended length is a limit for use in the Marlin 1895. You have no such worries with your rifle and you can use the extra powder space.

As for the 'correct' length for your chamber, I think you've already done most of the work. Another rifle would likely have a different throat than you have and would require a different seating depth. Shoot and see how your length works.

Mark

[gcollins]

Thanks Mark, That does make me feel better. I am one of those people that want to do the best I can on reloading, i allways have! But when you are in a area that you have only read about, and I have read a lot!!
Thanks again!
ACE

[Don McDowell]

Making sure the wad,bullet and powder are all in firm contact is a whole bunch more important than whether or not the bullet is touching the lands or not.
With your lite charges I don't think you'll get to the lands with the bullet.
While some folks thumb seat their bullets there's just as many that don't.
You'll need to do a lot of testing and find out what you and your rifle can live with.:drinks:

[littlejack]

Ace:
Sounds like you and I are in the same boat. I had a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70. It wouldn't shoot for me so I returned it. I shot over two thousand rounds through it with smokeless powder. I didn't use any BP. Anyway, I just bought a Uberti Hiwall last weekend. I also loaded my first black powder loads last Sunday. I am casting and loading the Postell 535 grain bullet. I loaded 65 grains of "cartridge" black and a .050 wad over the powder. Those loads had a C.O.L of 3.010. I had to push the cartridges into the chamber with a little force when the bullet met the throat.
I shot those last Sunday. The groups were 1" at 25 yards, 2" at fifty yards and about 4"- 5"s at 100 yards. This was with the factory buckhorn sights. Not too good for target work. Recoil was a push not a kick. Very nice.
I loaded some more this week with the same 65 grains of powder but without the wads. I seated the bullets to 2.900 C.O. L. This load alloys the cartridge to go into the chamber all the way with ease. Both of these loads compressed the powder charge about .100, maybe a little more. Some peoples rifles shoot better either with the powder compressed or the powder NOT compressed. The main issue with black powder is to not leave any air space between the powder charge and the base of the bullet. One fella on one of the other forums, said that his two 45-70 rifles shot best with the bullets seated AWAY from the rifling.
I will probably load some with PP'd bullets also to try this weekend. I have a lot to learn with the BP loads, but there are a lot of helpful people out there to ask.
Good loading to ya.
Jack

[NickSS]

I load 45-70s with varying amounts of powder for different rifles using the same bullet. The amount of compression changes and that seams to affect the accuracy in my rifles. I load for three different 45-70 rifles and each likes a different amount of compression using the same bullet, primer, wad, lube and cases. To determine the right compression for your rifle start by figuring out how deep in the case the bullet will be seated. Then subtract that and the thickness of your wad from the interior length of your case. pour powder in using a drop tube until the powder is at the correct height. weigh the charge and set you measure for that weight of powder. Load 10 rounds using that charge. Add a 0.1" more powder load 10 rounds. Add another 0.1 " and etc to about 0.4" of compression. You will not have 50 rounds loaded with anything from zero compression to 0.4" of compression. Go to the range and shoot 10 shot groups at 100 or 200 yards. I use a blow tube between shots and clean the barrel after each 10 rounds. Oh I forgot take a few extra rounds along to dirty the bore before each group. Pick the group that is best. Go home and reload 30 rounds of test ammo using the same technique with 10 right on your compression for your best group and 10 at 0.05 less and 10 at 0.05 more compression. Go and shoot them and pick the best. Note the charge and compression that works best and you have custom taylored loads for your rifle.

[SharpsShooter]

+1 for Nick's method. I do excactly the same when working up. Many will tell you that Goex requires more compression for cleaner burn and better accuracy than if you are using Swiss. I shoot the Lyman 457125 a good bit and compress up to .250".

SS

[montana_charlie]

You mentioned my name in your thread title, but I couldn't have said things any better than those who have already responded.

I use a different approach to choosing a starting load, but I don't recommend it because it is so different from what everyone else does. However, I would skip one step in the sequence described by NickSS.
Because you are using Goex Cartridge, I would go straight to the charge that requires 0.1" of compression...leaving out that one lighter charge...and work up from there.

A charge of Goex that has no measurable compression might 'shake down' while driving to the range, leaving an airspace in the cartridge. That may not cause problems...but why take the chance?
It's unlikely that you will skip over your 'best load' but you can always go back and try it if nothing else works.
CM

[KCSO]

I would recommend SHOOTING BUFFALO RIFLES OF THE OLD WEST. The loading section there will get you set for any use you might have for your rifle from paper patch to full house 1000 yard competition.

The only thing I would add is that if you don't have a drop tube you can touch a charged case to the side of a vibrating tumbler and it settles the powder very nicely. If I use the tumbbller to settle i don't have to compress the load.