500 yard question

[dk17hmr]

Say a guy was interested in shooting out to 500 yards with a cast bullet out of a rifle.

Our rifle club has a 500 yard fun shoot for the members, course of fire is 3 shots at 1, 2, 3, 4, and 500 yards, this is paper punching for score, the guys that shoot it have high dollar scopes on high dollar custom rifles.

I am thinkin of a single shot rifle with some sort of adjustable peep sight, globe front. Something like a Winchester 1885 or a Sharps 1874, the main questions is something like the 38-55 reach out to 500 accurately? I know a 45-70 will. Are heavy bullets better at the longer range, say a 500gr compared to a 410gr?

My dad has a Perdersoli 45-70, I am thinkin I may try it on this up coming shoot, if I can get an accurate load with my cast bullets, and if I can figure out the rear sight he has on it. If I do good I may have to sell off some of my less used rifles and pick one up for myself.

[Jon K]

Your assumtions are all correct.
38-55 will reach out there, but depending on conditions, mostly wind, the heavier boolits fare better.

Jon

[missionary5155]

Good morning I am normallyasleep at this hour but we have had a serious of noisy earthquakes... and once I wake up thats it.
Anyway our Illinois club used to have a similar shoot (Danville Rifle Pistol Club) years back. WE used the standard "Critter Steel" out to 500. I have a Navy Arms Roller rebarreled to 32 inches in 45-70. Was a 26 inch. WE fired off cross sticks and if you practice you can easily hit a 12 inch Bull at the ranges. Those ranges are set so all ya need is the rear sight height recorded. That sight should have markings on the side which will give you the reference points for repeatability. Like a scope... so many clicks up... but here it is VISIBLE.. so many marks up = 400 yards. Wind of course is fun... but a heavy boolit will help. AS you are not shooting but 15 rounds I would work with a 450+ grain boolit pure lead. (whatever heavy mold you have that will fill the bore). Figure out how much case capacity you have seating the boolit to kiss the rifling and then give it all the 2f black you can with about 10% compression. I would put a wad below the boolit base (cereal box if that´s all ya got). An old wax milk carton type works well also. Going this route you will have reasonable accuracy right away. No fuss.. a little mess.. and lots of fun !

[Jim]

Doug,
Lee makes a 500 grain spitzer point plain base mold in .458 . That might do well in your situation.

[44man]

Jim, have to watch that Lee boolit. I have heard about drastic nose slump. I never got it to shoot right.
I have had better results with a .460", 500 gr Rapine gov't boolit.

[dk17hmr]

I have never loaded with black powder, thats really all there is to load development? Fill the case with powder and seat a bullet?

Jim I have that mold, I havent shot it much out of dads 45-70, just my short barreled one.

The problem I can see with my dads rifle, the back sight, I dont know what brand it is, but when adjusting the height you loosen the eye cup and the eye cup can be moved 1/8" each direction from center. So if you try to keep it centered it is hit or miss if you get it in the right place when you tighten it down. Could I just push it all the way to one side and than drift the globe over to hit point of aim, that way it is consitant?

[montana_charlie]

The problem I can see with my dads rifle, the back sight, I dont know what brand it is, but when adjusting the height you loosen the eye cup and the eye cup can be moved 1/8" each direction from center.
That sounds like one of the 'giveaway sights' that are included with some Pedersoli rifles. They are ok if just used to get the gun sighted for a particular range, but they're not much good if frequent changes are the rule.

If you look at the 'other side' of the staff, you will see that the shank of the eyepiece screws into a little steel block that can slide sideways in a channel.

I would degrease the block and channel, then lock the block in the middle of the channel with something 'removeable'. Blue Loc-Tite would do it, but would be hard to remove. Loc-Tite makes a 'purple' thread sealant that only gets 'gummy'...not hard. That should keep it from moving while the eyepiece is loosened for elevation changes.

Fingernail polish will work, but it's hard to remove, or a dab of RTV might do the job while being 'undoable'.

If the current windage setting is 'on target', here's a way to maintain that setting after applying the 'stickum'...

Mount the rifle on a benchrest, or some other steady platform. Using sandbags, cinder blocks, or tractor tires, lock the gun in position so it is aimed perfectly at a distant target.

Without disturbing the rifle, disassemble the sight parts and apply the 'glue' of your choice. Reassemble the eyepiece and threaded block, then (looking through the peep) return to the windage setting that puts the sights back on target.

You can move the rifle...and even shoot it...but let the 'glue' dry before loosening the eyepiece again.
CM

[Lloyd Smale]

Id guess id look at what the guys that shoot bp competition use. You wont see many under .40 cal. Im sure you gun will work in a small michigan shoot but id also bet someone shows up with the proper equiptment. HOW BAD DO YOU WANT TO WIN!!

[dk17hmr]

I dont really care about winning...the best I have done at this shoot is a 146 9x out of 150 15x. Last time 1 guy shot 150, 2 others shot 149. I have my custom 25-06 set up for this shoot but thats what I shoot ever time. I think I would have to get after it tomorrow to be ready in time.

[Humpy]

The rifle you are using can do the job. You might look into 25 cal 100 Gr. Sierra Matchkings which may give you a edge. I assume since you are shooting "paper" you are using highpower repair centers? So what you are looking for is accuracy and not worrying about having to knock over heavy steel?

Work up a load at 300 yards or even better at 500 but will take a taller target.

You can get end rolls of newsprint from local newspaper. Lay it out vertically on target and place a smaller black target near the top of the paper and sight on that with first shots hitting near bottom of paper.

A check of the Sierra loading manual for 25-06 and 100 Gr. Matchkings shows a variety of slower burning propellants. Lets say you have a propellant that has a max charge of 54 grains.

Load up 11 rounds a follows:

4 rounds at 46 Grains,
1 round at 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52 and 53grains.

You want the 46 gr load to print low on the paper and then start shooting the heavier loads and plotting your shots. You will most likely find that the impacts will show a closer grouping for two or three shots.

Lets say you 49, 50 and 51 grain load printed closer than the others.

Now load 4 rounds at 49, and 1 round at 49.3, 49.6, 49.9, 47.2 and so forth up to 51 grains and repeat the test. You should see an even closer grouping of three or four of the smaller variations.

Next load three shot lots of the loads that printed closely and you should see one or two of them much closer.

You have now found the propellant load that gives the best harmonics for your barrel.

Since we don't have pits and targets we can raise we improvise.

What we do is there is a cement wall poured down by our 600 yard line. One guy will be down range with a walkie talkie and he sits behind the wall which is 30 feet back and 30 feet right of the target. The shooter fires one round through the chronograph strings and announces "clear" on the radio. The guy down range says "going out" and does not move until the shooter says he understands. He goes out to the target and marks the shot numbers 1,2,3, 4 etc.

When he returns to protected area he announces he is "clear, shoot it" and the shooter confirms he has heard the clear.

When we get through we have the velocity of each shot recorded on the line and the corresponding shot number marked on the target and we know the combo that shoots the best.

The wall is cheap to make. First pour a cement slab about three by five feet and in middle of slab set in some rebar (or heavy wire) and let it set up. Then take a couple of 2X4s and some OSB material and make a vertical form 3 feet wide and five feet high, brace it good and fill the form with cement. Cut some rebar or more wire and have it down in the form as well. You will have a wall 3 1/2" thick which should protect you from about anything under 50 BMG.

There is one other alternative. A 3/4" steel plate (hard stuff, not cold rolled) on a easel set up. Paint it white with spray cans of pain. In middle of plate take a tin can with both ends cut out and place one open end in center of plate and give a couple quick shots of black spray paint. This will be your aiming point. This sucker will weigh 270 pounds so be careful setting it up in frame and you will be good to go.

At 600 yards a bullet will show a gray splash on the white paint and you can plot from there and see immediately where you are printing and what works best. Between tests as barrel cools down stroll down and give the splash spots a shot of white spray paint and you are good to go again.

[TCLouis]

your range procedures.

It may not work for you, but might I suggest that you use the word clear . . . "CLEAR" when shooter has gun cleared and it is safe for the person to go out and check the target.

Use the hot . . . "HOT" when the person checking the target is out of the danger zone ( that is any place in the open down range of the shooter).

That way the word "CLEAR" denotes that the gun is clear with the action open and no one will be touching it for ANY reason.

and the word hot . . . "HOT" means that the target checker is in the safety bunker and that it is ok for the shooter can handle, adjust, load and shoot.

[dk17hmr]

Humpy, thanks for the suggestions. I know my rifle will "work", it works very well and I have handloads that work very well also. SMK's shoot pretty good but V-Max shoot better out of my rifle.

Being new to the forum I dont expect you saw the results of our last shoot, this is shot number 13, 14, and 15, my 500 yard target. .602" 3 shots. 75gr V-Max 3150fps.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/500group1.jpg

I was just looking to spice things up, thats why I asked about the 45-70.

Welcome to Castboolits!

[Humpy]

I think you have the winning combination right there, just need experience in reading the mirage. What is your load?