How to close expanded neck on a rifle case without crimping?

[PBSmith]

I use the 0.313" NOE expander plug in a Lee expander die when I'm loading 0.311-0.312" cast bullets. This works fine and I believe I'm getting good concentric seating of the bullet.

I don't want to crimp the seated bullets, just squeeze the expanded case neck back to where it should be so it drops into the rifle chamber.

What's the best way of doing this? I have a Lee factory crimp die and have tried a very light treatment with that. I've also tried the normal bullet seating die on my RCBS die set (seating stem backed off after seating), but it's difficult not to get a roll.

In either of the above two methods, I find it difficult to get a consistent closure of the expanded neck.

Anyone care to advise here?
Thanks,
PBSmith

[JSnover]

Is the entire neck oversized or just the mouth? If it's only the mouth, you could try backing the die out so the plug only just barely expands the mouth - just enough to start the boolit.
You could also polish the plug so it doesn't over-expand your case mouth. This may take a while as you have to test often to see if you've taken enough off.
Does an expanded case without a boolit drop into your chamber?

[ShooterAZ]

The Lee FCD is what I use for this task. I turn the die in just enough to remove the "bell" on the case. I also religiously trim my rifle cases in order to get uniform results. FYI in some of my rifles, the case will still chamber with no problem with a slight flare. Either way, it's not something I'm overly concerned about as long as the accuracy is there.

[jaysouth]

The Lee factory crimp die does a great job, but adds an extra step to the process. I use the RCBS seating die and adjust it so that it just removes the bell from the mouth, then adjust the plug to get proper bullet seating depth.

[Outpost75]

It would help to know which caliber you are reloading for. If doing large quantities and you have the load parameters well worked out a Redding Profile sizer and crimper is what you want, if available.

[Hamish]

ShooterAZ alluded to chambering rounds with the mouth still belled. This can be a definite plus, both to center the cartridge neck in the chamber neck, helping to center the bullet in the bore, and hold headspace. I try to do this whenever possible with range ammunition though, never with hunting cartridges.

[trails4u]

I'm with JSnover..... Reduce the size of your expander plug to match your boolit and problem solved.

[sigep1764]

I used the Lee expanding die with NOE insert for 270. My Redding seating die will just remove the flare when the die is raised in the press and the seating steam turned down to the the seating depth I want. Try raising the die in the press and turning the seating die down the same amount. May take a few tries, but that is what they are designed to do in my experience.

[Rcmaveric]

I have over belled some bras before. I used the Lee FCD to fix it. The dir was adjusted a quarter turn past contacting the shell holder.

I too use the Lee unirversal die with NOE plugs. Having a dummy brass that is belled the way you want it helps set up the die quickly and prevents that from hapening again.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Three44s]

Along with belling case mouths, an inside case mouth chamfering tool with a VLD angle to it should help. The VLD tool will reduce the amount of belling needed by a small margin. Perhaps enough though to make the difference.

Thre44s

[JSnover]

I hope the op gets back to us. "Drop-in fit" implies (to me) a single shot. If that's the case he may have more options than he thinks.

[PBSmith]

It would help to know which caliber you are reloading for. If doing large quantities and you have the load parameters well worked out a Redding Profile sizer and crimper is what you want, if available.

Numerous calibers: .30-30, .30-06, .35 Remington, .45-70

[PBSmith]

ShooterAZ alluded to chambering rounds with the mouth still belled. This can be a definite plus, both to center the cartridge neck in the chamber neck, helping to center the bullet in the bore, and hold headspace. I try to do this whenever possible with range ammunition though, never with hunting cartridges.

Yes, I've gotten best accuracy by NOT attempting to remove the expanded neck. There's slight resistance in closing the bolt. However, these rounds will not drop into the chamber.

[PBSmith]

I'm with JSnover..... Reduce the size of your expander plug to match your boolit and problem solved.

Expander plug fits bullet very well. I couldn't ask for a better fit.

[PBSmith]

Lee FCD sounds like the best solution unless I go with Outpost's idea.

[PBSmith]

I hope the op gets back to us. "Drop-in fit" implies (to me) a single shot. If that's the case he may have more options than he thinks.

Not a single shot, JS. Bolt, lever and slide action rifles. What I mean by drop-in: I'd like the finished cartridge to drop into the chamber without resistance, like on a factory round.

[PBSmith]

Is the entire neck oversized or just the mouth? If it's only the mouth, you could try backing the die out so the plug only just barely expands the mouth - just enough to start the boolit.
You could also polish the plug so it doesn't over-expand your case mouth. This may take a while as you have to test often to see if you've taken enough off.
Does an expanded case without a boolit drop into your chamber?

Yes, the expanded case without a bullet drops into chamber.

[PBSmith]

I used the Lee expanding die with NOE insert for 270. My Redding seating die will just remove the flare when the die is raised in the press and the seating steam turned down to the the seating depth I want. Try raising the die in the press and turning the seating die down the same amount. May take a few tries, but that is what they are designed to do in my experience.

I'll try working with the RCBS die in the manner you suggested. Thanks.

[PBSmith]

Thanks, all, for your input.

[bedbugbilly]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but are you trying to remove the "bell" as many are talking about - or actually resizing the length of the neck once the boolit is seated and in place? If that's what you're trying to do, then wouldn' tit be easier to decrease the diameter of your expander plug?

Maybe I'm not thinking this out just right? On my 30-30 and 8 X 57, I FL size the casing the first time I load - I'm only loading the 8mm in 1 rifle and the 30-30 in two different but have very similar chamber dimensions. And, I'm only loading on th light side. After 1 firing, I neck size both of them in the appropriate old Lyman 310 "neck sizing die". If you are trying to "neck size" after seating, I would think you could make up a die with the correct size hole for you brass (OD of the neck) and once you bullet is seated and in place, just run it up in to the die you've made. If you resize the whole length of the neck though, it is going to resize the portion of the boolit in the neck most likely.

[JSnover]

Yes, the expanded case without a bullet drops into chamber.

Ok, is it possible that your boolits might be a little oversized, or the neck portion of your chamber might be a little tight? If not, that slight flaring of the case mouth might simply just be too much for the drop-fit. Factory loads don't have that feature, therefore they won't have that problem.
Since you're getting best accuracy that way and the rounds chamber with only slight resistance, I'd be tempted to live with it as long as there are no other problems. Fire off a few magazines full, slow-fire and rapid-fire, see if they feed reliably. If they do (again, if it was my rifle) I might leave well enough alone and enjoy those accurate handloads.

[trixter]

To the OP I hope I read your question correctly, In order to get the neck back to spec size, I just adjust the seating die to take the neck expansion out. Prior to FCD there were three die sets, and if you use the Powder Through die, there was an ability to expand the mouth, then the bullet seating die, when adjusted properly will take the 'bell' out of the mouth and bring the neck back to SAMMI specs, or to your specs. Read the die setup instructions thoroughly. It's all in there, really.

[Hick]

Its going to depend on the rifle and chamber, and amount of bell, but you might not need to close it up. I use barely enough bell at the mouth to start the bullet in my Win 94's and they chamber fine without trying to take out the bell after loading the cartridge. My Mauser doesn't like it, so on that one I just touch it up with the crimp die-- not to add a crimp but to smooth out the bell.

[country gent]

I have done it using bushing sizer dies. one bushing to size and one bushing to iron out the bell. The bushing dies offer a lot of options using them 1) sizing right to size and not needing to expand back up. this may require a couple dies as brass varies in thickness. 2) the ability to iron out bells and expansion with out an actual crimp. 3) the ability to adjust neck tension of loaded rounds. 4) another often overlooked benefit is my Meacham die will do 45-70, 45-90, 40 65, and 38-56 with just bushing changes.