Garand purchase query

[georgerkahn]

A friend invited me to accompany him to a location in Vermont -- about a 3 1/2hr drive -- where a bunch of CMP Garand rifles will be purveyed. Not at all savvy as to what I should buy -- or, better, stay away from -- I'm hoping one or more of you really knowledgeable persons might provide me some guidance, or, a buying tip or two? The sale date is 22 September... so there is a bit of time for research. I indicated to him I'd love a Beretta, or a "corn chopper" model (IHC) -- but, he indicated last year there were none of these offered. Most all were Springfields in "all sorts of condition", with a very few "beat-up" H&R's. Hence, my inquiry.... I've been yearning to purchase an M1 Garand for quite some time.
Thank you in advance!
geo

[Der Gebirgsjager]

George -- there's an awful lot to cover for a good and thorough answer to our question(s). I'm thinking that you want one that is in good condition. So, aside from the overall external appearance you must consider the mechanical condition. That would include the wear measurements of the muzzle and throat of the chamber for which a gauge is usually used make a determination. 1 is almost brand new, 3 is starting to show serious use. A partial expedient, lacking the gauges for these measurements is to smuggle in a .30-06 round in your pocket and see if the bullet will enter the muzzle. The farther in it will go the more the barrel has been shot, and if it will enter the muzzle you can pretty well figure that the barrel will need to be replaced. I have never attended a CMP event, but it's my understanding that these measurements are usually stated to be within or without spec. Of course you have to look down the bore for visible frosting, pitting, apparent wear of the lands, inspect the muzzle's crown for nicks. Take along a bore light. Pull the bolt handle rearward as far as it will go and make sure that the bolt stays to the rear. Then, carefully avoiding having your thumb smashed, you have to push the follower/lifter downward to release the bolt and let it slam forward. At that point, look carefully to assure that the bolt locked closed. Two things that you are unable to check without field stripping the rifle is the amount of wear to the gas cylinder and gas piston tip. If the first is too worn too small, or the second too large, the rifle won't function properly, and replacement parts are becoming scarce and expensive. Then, there is the obvious -- is the stock cracked? Is the adjustable rear sight functional, both windage and elevation? If the general appearance is o.k. and the mechanics seem good I wouldn't necessarily reject one for the stock, as that is probably the easiest part to replace. Same for the handguards. I own nine M1s, two purchased from the CMP's predecessor DCM, a couple that were imported from S. Korea as "Blue Sky" rifles, and five that I either re-barreled or built from only a receiver. This is getting harder to do with the parts beginning to dry up, but can still be done if you have deep pockets. My last project was a 5 million series serial number H&R from a receiver. I do not own an IH or Winchester. These bring premium prices on the internet auctions. Not knowing how much you are willing to spend, I will include the information just FYI that a place named Northwest Armory has some M1 auctions pending on www.gunauction.com that have not as yet started, but the photos are posted at that site. All makers are represented, apparently it is a very nice collection being liquidated, and all rifles seem in Excellent + condition. Good luck with your search and purchase. The M1 is certainly one of the finest rifles ever made.

[Bigslug]

George,

You unfortunately aren't going to get all the answers on Garands until you pony up, buy the books, and otherwise dig deep to do the research. It had a 20 year production run from four manufacturers, and saw a lot of upgrades; pretty much all the parts are interchangeable across the whole entire run; and the harsh use of the guns that saw service in WWII and Korea with corrosive pre-1953 ammo pretty much guarantees you will be looking at mixmaster rebuilds or hammered puppy poo on the earlier guns. Parts other than the receiver aren't serialized, so you have to consult the books to really know what truly "belongs" on a receiver based on it's production date.

Late-number Springfields, IHC's, or H&R's are more likely to have more original parts, be in spec, and are arguably better rifles due to more of the bugs being worked out by the time they were made, though aren't necessary as "cool" because they didn't see the events that made the M1 famous.

Winchester - more collectible, but they had more production trouble. As WWII receivers, they're gonna either be Frankenguns or REALLY expensive. I'd only approach them cautiously as shooters.

For spot-checks on a shooter, I'd check the overall bore and crown as outlined on Post #2. I would also check that the gas cylinder lock screw snugs up the front handguard, but not a deal-breaker - as this can be fudged. I'd also check that the trigger guard requires some pressure to swing up and lock the mechanism into the stock. This can also be fudged around if loose, but it's a sign the stock wood is compressed or otherwise deteriorated. A direct-from-CMP gun will at least have the plus of being checked for headspace and gotten a few other gaugings by an armorer at some point. Avoids at least some of the "box of chocolates" pitfalls.

[Black Powder Bill]

We had three come into the shop about a week and a half ago. One was a civilian version. The other two were Grands but they had different dated receivers different barrels, mismatched stock wood. They've been back to an Armory somewhere.

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

[georgerkahn]

Der-Gebirgsjager -- I am ever so appreciative of your response. I had not yet thought of a bore-light. Re the ammo bore-check, I doubt if I'd be allowed in with "ammunition" -- so --thanks to your advice -- I now plan on drilling and tapping the base of a Sierra (Garand) Match-King bullet. Screwing in a three inch 8-32 bolt should enable me to both have it on my person without fear of redoundent, and enable the test you checked. My friend suggested that these are all "rack", with a very few "service grade" firearms. He did add that if they weren't "101% safe to shoot", the CMP would not purvey them -- one less worry for me. However, I will be surprised if the variants of wear among them will not be huge. While "nice", I think furniture will be near my bottom selection criteria... of greater importance is the functioning/operation of the one I hope to select. Further, too, another THANK YOU -- I hadn't as yet given thought to the rear sight. I presently own one Garand, and it is a post-war Italian Beretta. Purchased many years ago from a Long Island dealer of the highest regard (Tony Pucci, Jr.), I was not faced with any of the choices affronting me with the sale I plan on attending.
Again, I thank you for your word of wisdom; hard to believe that at age 70, I'm as excited as a kid before Christmas with my chance to purchase one of these. :) :) :)
BEST!
geo

[georgerkahn]

Black-Powder-Bill: Thanks for your input. I take it the barrels are marked with maker's name; how important is it that it be the same as the receiver maker's? For example, my friend has an H&R Garand, with its barrel marked, "LMR". I imagine (I hope) a Springfield or an H&R will follow me home -- is the manufacturer of barrel of any real importance?

[higgins]

Is this a sale conducted by CMP, or is it a sale of accumulated M1s being sold by an individual or shop? If it is not a sale conducted by CMP (which requires qualifications-see their website), you can't be sure they are in fact CMP rifles unless they have the accompanying paperwork and certificates. Even then, the certificates only gives you some assurance that the rifle with that receiver SN came from CMP; it's easy to swap parts in Garands, so parts could have been switched.

Today, everything worth anything is faked. S&W box labels (write in your gun's SN), Colt wood grips, etc. I believe the only way to be sure you're getting a genuine CMP rifle is to either buy it from CMP yourself or get it (with paperwork) from an individual who only occasionally sells such guns. I hesitate to say never, so I'll say CMP rifles should not have import marks on them.

Go to the CMP website and see if you can find forum threads about faked CMP certificates or paperwork. You'll also see what they are charging for their M1s (if they have any for sale), and you can read threads about what rifles are in the pipeline, etc.

[wv109323]

The CMP rifle grades fall within certain parameters for barrel wear. The CMP site will give you those parameters. I think each rifle from the CMP has a tag indicating barrel wear. The LMR barrels were regarded as the best barrels for accuracy and we're put on many IH and HR rifles of the 1950's. LMR barrels were used to rebuild earlier rifles.
Garands were built by Springfield for WW2 and the others for Korea. The Korean rifles are generally thought to be better finished with the better barrels.
Original rifles are sorted and sold for higher prices or auctioned on CMP site. You will probably like at several rifles and not much difference in there overall conditions. They will probably be a Mixmaster of parts.
The holy grail is an all matching IH. The production numbers were Springfield,Winchester,HR then IH.
Make sure you take all the documentation needed to purchase a rifle. You need to prove you are a US citizen and a member of a CMP club and have firearm training. See CMP site for all details,these may not be complete.
Recivers,trigger group,barrel,op rod and stock cartouches add to the value. CMP has put new stocks on some grades. Also they sell rifles with a n aftermarket sniper mount. These are about worthless as original optics are next to impossible to find.

[lefty o]

95% of garands or better are mixmasters. those that arent have been pieced together by owners along the way, or even the cmp. unless you want to get crazy, it is all about mechanical condition.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Do not be afraid of the Line Material Co. barrels, as they were considered to be of the highest quality, and I believe they were used on all IHC Garands, and also were used on over 100,000 of the later produced H&R rifles. The company made about 1,000,000 of them, with about half being used in arsenal rebuilds, so they can be considered appropriate on almost any well used rifle. There are not many "original" Garands left, as most have been through a couple of wars and were rebuilt for the next conflict, but most can be considered "correct" if rebuilt with original gov't contracted parts.

[bob208]

I would not worry or even go out of my way for one with a matching barrel. when I was shooting high power I had two restorers buy my take off barrels.

[Hick]

I can't add much to the above-- but if they are CMP rifles look for the yellow armorer's tag-- it will not only say rack or service grade but also may have throat and muzzle gage readings written on it (My Service Grade special came with that tag). As said above-- low numbers are best.

[roverboy]

I saw a video on youtube where they were collecting the Phillipine Garands. Some were in bad shape but, by now I'm sure they have refurbished them. I don't what kind of prices they are selling for. I got lucky on mine a few years ago and got a great price.

[Hardcast416taylor]

RED LIGHT ALERT! WARNING - WARNING!!! Check the chamber for rust and pitting. A friend of mine bought a very nice looking - on the outside - M-1 from the CMP. He cleaned it up and took some factory ammo out to shoot. The 1st round hung up in the chamber ripping off the case rim! He cleared the case with a cleaning rod. The case looked like it had the worst case of chickens pox you ever saw! The chamber needed to be reamed with a chamber reamer to make it accept and eject fired rounds. Now he can only get 1 - 2 loadings from his brass. Corrosive rounds obviously had been used it this M-1 and poor chamber cleaning maintence. So if they look nice on the outside, look on the inside.Robert

[lancem]

Just my view here after building 3 for myself and looking at a lot of others. First, they are all mix masters, they were before their first war was over, so IMO don't even worry about it. Unless you are collecting, again IMO anyone will do, so look for a good receiver first, no pitting above or below the wood line would be a real plus. If I had a choice between good receiver and bad barrel and the other way around I'd go with the good receiver. Quality barrels are available and rebarreling one isn't a big deal again IMO. Things that are really important will be hard to check without the proper gauges. Tab length on the Op rod, piston diameter, and so on. Here is a really good tear down inspection description for the M1, hope this helps. http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-inspection

[texasnative46]

georgerkahn.,

Imo, after buying Garands from CMP & having been a docent for the USAMP Museum, like buying real estate the 3 most important things are: CONDITION, CONDITION & CONDITION.

Fwiw, in 2018 ALL Garands with a handful of exceptions have been re-arsenaled/rebuilt at depots & (in some cases) by civilian contractors, both in CONUS & OCONUS.
(At one time or another, about 100 "friendly" & some "not so friendly" nations have officially or unofficially issued Garand rifles over the last nearly 8 decades. - Even the NAZI regime issued captured Garand rifles during WWII to police formations, paramilitary & "second & rear echelon" troops.)

Fyi, in 1975 we of the MP Museum staff attempted to find an "as new" (and preferably unfired) Garand for our WWII display. - After more than a year of careful looking, we finally determined that there were none left in US Government hands, except for 4 "new" Garand rifles already in military museums & one at the Smithsonian's National History Museum. - We finally settled upon a SA 08/42 Garand that was "correct" & had been rebuilt at RRAD.

While Garand rifles can be "corrected", nonetheless they are no more original than a rebuilt auto which is rebuilt from parts is.
(As for me, I'm happy to have my pair of SA "Service Grade" rebuilds that were bought at the CMP North Store, as I'm a shooter/hunter, rather than primarily a collector.)

My advice: GO to the CMP Store that is nearest to you & buy the best Service Grade that they have for sale, IF your quest is for a shooter, as I've never seen a SG sold by CMP that wasn't mechanically fine in every respect. Also, don't be afraid to ask the CMP employees at the store for help in selecting your rifle(s).
(On my last trip to the North Store, two friends & I took my old Lincoln Town Car to the Store & returned to NOVA with 2 dozen Garands, a 1903 Springfield rifle, that was rebuilt at SA in 1918 & the back seat of the car full of cans of M2 Ball ammo.= The trip was like CHRISTMAS.)

yours, tex

[wv109323]

Just for perspective,in about 1979 myself and two relatives ordered DCM Garands. I got an all matching HR with a non walnut stock. My brother got a Mixmaster with a Winchester receiver and barrel,iirc and my cousin got a Springfield that looked brand new. I remember the price as $169.00.

[frankenfab]

I'm so glad I used my Christmas bonus a few years ago to buy my CMP special grade. I got a 1954 model H&R receiver. The special grade comes with new Criterion barrel, new walnut stock, and completely rebuilt and refinished. $1030 shipped.

[texasnative46]

wv109323,

GOOD for you & your family on their NICE Garands.

Fwiw, I suspect that CMP in 2018 is no more expensive than the rifles were in 1979, adjusted for 4 decades of inflation. = After all CMP is a non-profit organization.

IF I remember correctly, I paid about 450.oo for my Springfield Armory of December of 1941. That Service Grade LOOKED new, though it was a RRAD Rebuild.

My 2nd cousin in 2005 or 06 got the PURTIEST Korean War era Garand stock that I've ever seen from CMP. = The VP of our Garand club looked at Sterling's SG & commented, "HOLY COW!! That stock has more stripes than the average tiger."

Though marked International Harvester, the receiver was evidently actually made at Springfield Armory. It has a LMR barrel, that gauges within the tolerances for a new Garand barrel. Certain other small parts are SA made, which is evidently commonplace for early 1953 IH rifles.
The serial number is in the 4.5 million range, which dates it to early-mid 1953.

Note: "A little bird told me" that CMP may well soon receive a moderate quantity of post-Korean War Garands that were sent under a foreign military aid program to SE Asia (I heard perhaps from Cambodia, but cannot confirm that.) but were evidently never issued.
(It appears that several foreign nation's police/military forces received NEW "military aid program" H&R & IH rifles but never issued them; instead the Garand rifles were "put into storage for future use".. Some of those "received but not issued" nations were: Malaysia, Indonesia, Peru, Venezuela & Guatemala.)

yours, tex

[roverboy]

RED LIGHT ALERT! WARNING - WARNING!!! Check the chamber for rust and pitting. A friend of mine bought a very nice looking - on the outside - M-1 from the CMP. He cleaned it up and took some factory ammo out to shoot. The 1st round hung up in the chamber ripping off the case rim! He cleared the case with a cleaning rod. The case looked like it had the worst case of chickens pox you ever saw! The chamber needed to be reamed with a chamber reamer to make it accept and eject fired rounds. Now he can only get 1 - 2 loadings from his brass. Corrosive rounds obviously had been used it this M-1 and poor chamber cleaning maintence. So if they look nice on the outside, look on the inside.Robert

When I bought mine the chamber looked good but, the bore looked like well used sewer pipe. I bought a nearly new VAR Danish barrel and it shoots great now. Some of them out there are kinda rough.

[frankenfab]

Very cool video on the Philippine Garands that are being processed now. It sounds like a lot of money when they talk about all the expenditures to get the rifles here.

But if you round it up to $6 million, and divide by 86,000 rifles, it comes to $69.77 per rifle for those expenses.

http://thegca.org/the-cmp-and-the-philippine-garands/

[bob208]

I got my first m1 in 69 a h&r with a Springfield barrel and a Winchester trigger group. late 70's I got a dcm m1 it is a Winchester with a new springfield barrel and a h&r trigger group. then when that bunch came in.
, in the late 80's I got a I-h and a springfield.

[texasnative46]

bob208,

Fyi, IH Garands were frequently fitted with SA barrels at the factory & in some cases other maker's parts were used to "keep the delivery process moving".
(SOME "IH-marked" receivers/barrels/small parts were actually made at SA. - The way that you can tell which ones are actually SA made but IH marked receivers is to see if the stampings are SA or IH type.)

Fwiw, some "known Garand experts" say that more IH-marked rifles have LMR barrels & SA parts from the factory than do not.

At least for years 1952-53 (and perhaps even early 1954??), I guess that you could say that some IH-marked Garand rifles are "factory mixmasters".

yours, tex

[georgerkahn]

THANK YOU!!! for all the wonderful responders! I'm almost embarrassed to reiterate that I'm like a child, the night before Christmas, in anticipation of making the 3 1/2 hour drive to the facility where the CMP will be purveying the Garands. Having the desire for too many years to own one of these, I'm ready to go right now, albeit my buddy is not picking me up until 7AM on Thursday ;).
All responders have provided me with a wealth of information; lots of reading and research; and many good "do's and don'ts" for when I'm there. Keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed for good fortune in my being able to purchase one -- I do intend to close this thread with a picture of (I hope!) my new M1 Garand upon return home.
BEST! -- and thanks again -- I still reckon my knowledge total might fit into a proverbial run-over thimble -- but I sure feel smarter now than when I first heard about the sale!
geo

[garandsrus]

Are you going to the North Store, South Store, or somewhere else? I have no idea what is at either store but the CMP web site has a forum for each store and there is usually an inventory report so you have an idea what’s there.

[georgerkahn]

Neither "store". There is a shoot at the Ethan Allen Range in Jericho, Vermont, which started Tuesday (yesterday) and runs through Sunday. Purportedly, starting on Thursday (tomorrow) after noon, the CMP will be offering Garands for sale. You can read Facebook link at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Camp-Ethan-Allan-Training-Site/225192610852742 . I'll hopefully be there, leaving here at 7AM with a little cash and a lot of hopes :). Thanks to the great responders to my query on this site, I'll also have lots more knowledge than had I, before. (wish me luck!)
geo

[texasnative46]

georgerkahn,

BEST WISHES. = As I said earlier, don't be fearful of asking the CMP store personnel for help in picking YOUR Garand. - You CAN trust their knowledge.
(One of the "store guys" helped me find MY favorite WWII-era SA Garand & it is "as new", though rebuilt. = Another RRAD rebuild, with a proper SA barrel that is within the tolerance for NEW barrels..)

Fwiw, UNLESS you are "Garand-smart", stay away from the rack grades & buy a nice SERVICE GRADE. = It's HARD to find a BAD SG from CMP.

yours, tex

[georgerkahn]

Thanks. I (only) once went to a "Black Friday" pre-Christmas sale at a mall to purchase a weight-lifting setup for my older son; the folks gave new meaning to everything 180* out of phase with any goodness, respect for others, etc -- something between Piranha fish in a feeding frenzy and hyenas pushing at a fresh carcass. (I actually left, waited a few days, and paid so little more -- it reinforced my commitment to never engage in such a "sale" again) My worries, albeit I hope to be without merit, are that there will be a similar group all trying to get in and get the best rifle in the place simultaneously upon their door-unlocking of sales room. The fellow who is driving me said in past years, wanna-be buyers line up and they only let "x" number in room at a time, letting more in as people egress, and he has had no bad experiences. I have a bit of ambulatory challenges, requiring one, and sometimes two canes to get about... but, I guess there's only one way to find out -- and, I'm game! I do hope I will be able to ask knowledgeable CMP folks, all of which I've heard nothing but the VERY best about. BUT, a lot of my inquiry here is based on the experience I mentioned re the weight lifting gear. Only one way to find out.. and, God willing, I'll be there!
Thanks again!
geo

[georgerkahn]

I promised to post my results, and here it is! The drive to from -- 7 hrs, total -- was fine, and the CMP people were/are terrific!!! I was a teeny tiny squenched by a fellow from another state, who clearly wanted the best rifle displayed -- adroitly hanging on to the one I selected and with a smile denying his request to "see it" (for fear of my never being able to see it again ;) )... I indicated I believed this would be the one to follow me home... and it did. Kind of a mix-master, it sports a Winchester receiver, an NM operating rod, and barrel, trigger group, and pretty much all else is Springfield. The gas unit has hardly no bluing on it, and the barrel looks almost new. Their card indicated a muzzle gaging of 3, and throat of 2 -- I'm happy. The firearm sports new CMP furniture -- a choice I had to make as those without the CMP wood were pretty well beat, to say the least. Thank you to all for input enabling to hopefully make the best choice of the 20 or so rifles displayed! Tomorrow I hope to try shooting it... Yippe!!! I'm now a U.S. M1 Garand owner!!!
227450227452

[ShooterAZ]

Looks like you got a good one. I'm very lucky to have got in on the Greek returns several years back. I got a Collector Grade, a Correct grade, and two service grades. All of them are HRA's. This wasn't my choice, just luck of the draw (except the collector grade) I love Garands! Yours is a true piece of History, a WWII Winchester. I hope yours shoots as good as she looks.

[texasnative46]

georgerkahn,

CONGRADS. = LOOKS A-OK to me. - Be sure to report on how she shoots!!!!

IF that Winchester was MINE, I would go to a show & swap out the CMP wood for the proper GI & all the other NON-Winchester parts for Winchester & "correct it".
Then I would refinish the wood & metal.
(The SA barrel MAY be correct, as some SA barrels were evidently installed on Winchester & IH receivers, "to keep the line running smoothly".)

Incidentally, a large percentage of IH Garand rifles were assembled with SA small parts & barrels by LMR, i.e., LINE MATERIALS, RIFLE Inc.
(SOME IH receivers were actually built at SA, though they are heel-marked as IH.)

yours, tex

[georgerkahn]

Thanks again! Yes, the ONLY thing I didn't love about rifle was/is the CMP furniture. I was faced with "high-pressure", time-wise decision making as the fellow adjacent to me would have never let it go, I am certain, had I let him "see" this M1. I've been-there-done-that at gun shows, flea markets, and even garage sales ;) -- always ending with my hands empty... Back to my purchase: They only put out about 20 firearms at a time, due to very limited table space so to do, and if one discounts those in .308 and the 1903 drill rifles they had on table -- that left only about fourteen to select from. The only other Winnie was a rack grade with furniture very much in need of replacement, and a gas cylinder with almost a mirror-like (bare steel) finish. My buddy and I agreed the wood NEEDS replacement, and the question remained unanswered as to what either of us would do with the gas cylinder. He lucked out with the "best in show", imho, with a 5-million IHC, with IHC bolt, trigger group, and LMR barrel -- $780.00! However, I am ever so pleased with mine. If you know of any source for replacement furniture -- no shows, etc. in quite the distance -- hence the 3 1/2 hr drive each way yesterday... kindly PM me?
Hurricane remnants now brought pouring rain, with up to 50mph gusts predicted later in day -- which gives me opportunity to take my new treasure apart, re-clean and lub it, as well as getting a few en blocs filled in hopeful anticipation of taking it to range tomorrow.

[osteodoc08]

Sounds like you did well. M1 Garand rifles are so pleasant to shoot and I can bang on steel and distant targets to have the ping stop me short and to just toss another clip in. You did well. If handloading, there are plenty of recipes out there to recreat ball ammo but I’ve found a few grains lighter will yield great results with softer recoil and full functioning.

[georgerkahn]

Thank you! A suggestion I plan to heed is a modified gas plug set, which comes with a few different inserts -- the trick being to use the insert which still provides 100% functioning of action with the ammo being used. Several posts indicated using this has the dual pluses of softer recoil, and "doubling the life" of this grand rifle! (Considering my 70 yr old shoulder -- the softer recoil was the major impetus.)
g

[ShooterAZ]

Iv'e found these guys to be useful for Garand parts. Many are USGI and all are serviceable.

https://www.fulton-armory.com/M1-Garand.aspx

[Texas by God]

The M1 is the softest shooting 30-06 I've shot and definitely the most fun. I don't want to carry one very far, though! I sure want one like yours, George.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[georgerkahn]

Texas by God -- you're tooooo kind! ;) I am super happy with it, and (work :() dictates Sunday afternoon as my first planned range visit to try it out. My only non-love with it is the CMP furniture. On the one hand, it is pretty & new, and has a rubber butt plate/recoil pad. On the other hand, I was hoping to have a rifle follow me home with furniture on it like the one my dad carried in the Philippine jungles for a year and one half during WWII. That this stock does not have that opening compartment just doesn't seem "right". However, a couple hours with drill press and router -- take more time to fabricate a jig than do the routing -- may just enable me to replace that rubber with a real metal G.I. buttplate. Looking at Internet purveyors, for me to buy a genuine WRI stock at this moment seems prohibitive, cost wise. I kind of blew all my tuckit money on the rifle purchase.
g

[texasnative46]

osteodoc08,

Would you care to share your "pet load" that functions the Garand action??

yours, tex

[georgerkahn]

texasnative46 -- vis your inquiry, it is with shaking fingers I paste the load I've used for years shooting club Garands. Two notes are: 1/I may get redounded for posting this, as it employs j-bullets ;); and 2/ MOST important, again note this is the load I assembled and worked/works for me -- so PLEASE NOTE it is for INFORMATION purposes only. (Consult at least three lawyers and four printed manuals before you try any load for any firearm -- 'specially for gas guns provided by bozos (e.g., me) on the Internet!)
Well, with that...I reckon in 2018 it's astute to coa...
Sierra #2190 150 grain bullet
46.6 grains IMR 4895 powder
CCI #34 Primer
Military cases
g

[texasnative46]

georgerkahn,

SORRY that I wasn't clear. = I was asking "osteodoc08" for his "pet" load that is "softer recoiling & still full functioning" & preferably a GCCB load.
(My JHP hunting load is a direct clone of M2 Ball ammo. = YEP. I've hunted with Garand rifles since I was a boarding school NDCC cadet in the early 1960s & often borrowed a Garand from the school's commandant to head out to the woods.)

yours, tex

[ShooterAZ]

My J pet load for decades has been 46.5 gr of IMR 4064 with either the Hornady or Sierra 168 gr HPBT Match. LC cases and CCI No.34 primers. If I don't have the #34 I will use WLR. Am I reading that your new to you CMP Garand has a rubber buttplate?

[starnbar]

Garands are **** good rifles got a couple of em myself my one son can clover leaf the springfield at 50 yards all day long.

[texasnative46]

starnbar,

Frankly, I'm surprised that the Armed Forces haven't pulled some out of depot storage & issued them to skilled marksmen for service in the mountains of Afghanistan.
(The M4 is nearly worthless out past 400M.)


Even now, I think that the scoped National Match Garand (as used by the 2nd most deadly US sniper of RVN) still would be VERY DEADLY, just as it was in the 1970s.

yours, tex

[texasnative46]

ShooterAZ,

It's hard to find a better load than yours for general use with Garand rifles..

Fwiw, I use NOTHING but Lake City once-fired cases (that I get FREE from a local Garand match shooter) for reforming into 9.3x62mm Mauser in the Model 760 that JES reformatted for me.
(285 grains of .368 GCCB at 2,000 FPS will slay most any creature & certainly any game animal in the Western Hemisphere.)

yours, tex

[georgerkahn]

ShooterAZ: Yes-- I did in fact write that, while not writing my being either a bit blind or stupid or both :). The buddy who drove came over for us to each check out the others' find, and it turns out that several manly wipes with a Shooters' Choice dampened paper towel -- took quite a few sheets -- removed all traces of what I thought was a rubber plate -- instead it being but a coating. Under it, complementing the brand new stock is a brand new METAL butt-plate, but it was indeed coated with a black, looks-like-rubber, coating. Stupid me thought it was a rubber plate -- now, happy I was wrong. My friend's IHC had original furniture, so no comparison with his. Our guess is, perhaps, a rust-preventative coating, and/or something to keep it standing for friction and/or scratch-prevention? Anyone's guess -- but I am ever so happy to "find" the "military" metal butt-plate. I sincerely apologize for wrong descriptive info -- while being delighted to learn it was wrong.
geo

[garandsrus]

Could have been dried Cosmoline.

[pworley1]

Nice rifle. I hope you enjoy it.

[georgerkahn]

range report ;): I field stripped my new toy, and did some cleaning and lubing. The card attached to the rifle from CMP indicated both muzzle AND throat measured "2", and barrel looks as if its been hardly shot at all. It took very little with Holland's Witch's Brew, followed with Isopropyl alcohol; then Butch's Bore Shine to get 100% clean Otis pull-thru patches to come out! I did replace the op spring with one of Orion7 (Tony Pucci's) stainless steel ones, and used MolyGraph grease (from Harbor Freight) and a good gun oil to lub it as directed in the CMP book which accompanied it. I had loaded four enblocs each with military ball ammo.
At range, it took eight rounds to get elevation set, using sand bags (11 clicks) at 75 yards; the windage was right on. I then fired two more enblocs at a leisurely pace, and my spotting scope revealed a group about the size of a small dessert-size paper plate. Two holes were out of the tight group, and in retrospect I reckon perhaps each was the first shot of each en bloc? Don't know. Gentle rain decided to turn into a down-pour, so I called it a day.
I'm (still) happy!!! I'm thinking of using my iPhone to record shots net time, if there's an out of group shot, to see it's placement. I was cognizant of the weight of this Garand -- happy I was seated shooting at bench; must've been a real challenge for the G.I. with a heavy pack and extra ammo carrying it over rough terrain all day. On the other hand, it sure seemed to "kick" less than the Springfield 1903 I have.
geo

[country gent]

My garand was the last shot out of the group when the bolt locked back and the clip ejected. The bolt lug op rod cam it was recommended plasti lube a very thick tacky grease. To thin a grease and functioning lubes your glasses

[lefty o]

oil keeps an M1 from rusting, grease keeps it lubed.

[georgerkahn]

oil keeps an M1 from rusting, grease keeps it lubed. I love this line -- ever so true! I degreased and cleaned my new treasure as best as I could, using several solvents -- with isopropil alcohol rinses between to not risk interaction between products. I used Butch's gun oil on pretty much all that rotates. On anything shiny that slides, plus the lugs, channels, and everywhere else in booklet from the CMP I used Molygraph grease -- highly recommended to me.
As I wrote, the one almost-flyer in each group -- only about 2 3/4" "out" from other seven -- was, and still is thought perhaps to be the first or last shot in each clip. I'm thinking that I'm new to the firearm, as well as it's first firing in ??? how long... so I'm hoping things will be better next trip... albeit I'm impressed with the overall results. Locally, we're getting hurricane remnants with high winds (for us) and heavy rain predicted through the week-end. First nice day I need to mow grass... and then I hope to get back to the range. I'm shooting HXP Greek military ammo I picked up from a fellow who bought it -- in sealed Spam cans -- from the CMP. So, the ammo should be consistent. Regardless, the one and only "bottom line" is IT IS FUN!!! Re that famous line quoted as the best rifle ever made for battle -- fortunately I'm not in that venue -- but can now clearly see how it earned these accolades!
geo

[Outpost75]

The HXP is very good, as is also the brass. Be sure to save it for reloading.

If you have alot of it the Dillon Auto Swager is the best to use on the primer pockets.

[georgerkahn]

I have the privilege of being a range officer at annual CMP clinics at a range/club I belong to, so a shortage of military (CMP) brass has never been an issue -- rare, indeed, is a student who loads and wants it. I DO have the Dillon tool, so I'm all set. Albeit I have a small/fair amount of Greek brass, I've yet to reload any -- I reckon I'd do a water-content check first, to see if I need deviate from my loadings for American made military brass from decades past. I also have a Giraud annealing machine, and -- 'specially for the old brass -- am a firm do-er and believer of the benefits of annealing -- which I do, every 2nd firing.
BEST!
geo

[goryshaw]

The only thing I've ever had to do to HXP primer pockets is a quick pass with a case mouth chamfering tool to remove the three stab crimps. No need to swage the pockets.