Belding & Mull "Visible" Powder Measure [Archive]

Weaponologist

09-02-2018, 12:41 AM

I've heard nothing but good things about these measures so I jumped on the wagon some time back and have to say I'm very pleased so far. I liked the one I had so well that when I got a chance to pick up one that had never been used and Factory Fresh I jumped on that one also. The only issue is it has no Brass Powder Hopper. So I knew if anyone had either a Hopper for a B&M or the ability to make one it would be a member on Cast Boolits.. If anyone could steer me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. Also, If anyone has one let us know if you still use it even thou it's slower to use.. I love keeping older reloading tools alive. I got several of the older double beam scales that work perfectly. I don't use them. Their more of a decoration in my reloading room but their part of History to a sport that I Truly love.. Here is a little visual porn of my 2 Belding & Mull "Visible" Powder Measures... You'll notice the one with No Hopper...

226481

JSH

09-02-2018, 08:42 AM

I don't have a hopper, but I also have two. As far as I am concerned they are over and above anything on the market. Ball or stick powder.
Those that use lots of H1000 and 4198, I don't know how the get by with out one. I have complete trust in it for SR4759 as well.
Jeff

PBSmith

09-02-2018, 10:20 AM

Weapon,
You might want to check the Belding & Mull website. Some time ago they were selling parts for the powder measure you own, though I don't know if the brass hopper was available. Give them a call. If a brass hopper is available, it won't be inexpensive. Today, Belding & Mull is an all-purpose gun store that simply bought out or inherited the old name. With the possible exception of parts for the powder measure, I'm not aware they offer any of the early B&M reloading equipment

Having roots in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, where Philipsburg is located, I had to buy one of the B&M gadgets myself. A previous owner had modified the bench attachment. That original little screw clamp was a poor arrangement. Some owners found improvement by drilling a shallow blind hole on the underside of the bench into which the clamp pad fit.

My measure came with 10 or 12 solid brass measures of a fixed volume, stamped with the powder type and grains. I don't know if these were an original accessory, or if the previous owner, an accomplished machinist, made them himself. The idea was you had these fixed brass measures for your pet loads, thus eliminating the need to adjust the screw-type measure.

Also, the handle on my B&M is a heavy stainless steel one, as opposed to the cast iron. Whether or not this was a factory option/variation, or an improvement made by an inventive owner, I can't say.

ReloaderFred

09-02-2018, 10:34 AM

I have one and like it for very small lots, but for most reloading, I use one of the half dozen other powder measures on my bench.

You can measure the OD of the brass measure and replace it with a plastic hopper, if you can't find an original brass hopper. It won't look the same, but it will work.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Ickisrulz

09-02-2018, 10:43 AM

Check here:

http://montanavintagearms.com/reloading/

I'm betting they sell parts too.

Bent Ramrod

09-02-2018, 10:57 AM

My B&M Visible is my primary smokeless powder measure. I have three sheets of settings for various loads of various powders, which get me close for the next charging session. The old Belding and Mull Handbooks also have charge tables for the measure, although many of the powders are now obsolete.

It’s not as fast as the crank drum types, but it handles all powders to +-.2 gr. max, and I’m not a devotee of speed reloading anyway. I like being able to look at the powder level in the charge tube and see that it hasn’t bridged or otherwise varied before it goes in the case.

If you have an Industrial Metals place somewhere around, you might find a short length of the right size brass or aluminum tubing in their remainders section. A check of some of the home shop machinist sites might find suppliers of small quantities of such stock.

Somebody on this forum found something (engine block expansion plugs? can’t remember) that are usable replacements for the original brass caps.

The things are worth picking up on general principle if they’re offered at a low price. I have an extra that I had to replace the glass in the hopper, and also have the Standard and Magnum charge tubes, both in micrometer screw and sliding style.

Hardcast416taylor

09-02-2018, 11:11 AM

I got my B&M measure in with a box of other loading equipment back in 1980 for a price of $5 at a yard sale. The measure tube was missing so I had a machinest friend make such a thing by boring out a piece of brass rod that was a snug but loose tube with a threaded opposite end that a bolt with a floating stopper on the tube end to serve as an adjustable powder measure. About 1990 I happened onto the B&M web site and purchased a new magnum size powder measure tube. Slow, yes, not dead on accurate as other measures, also yes, do I enjoy using this old lady - YES.Robert

country gent

09-02-2018, 11:23 AM

Measure it up and online metals can supply you the brass tubing in 1 ft lengths. Just cut to desired length and drill the 3 .060 holes every 120*.

I bought one with out a hopper also. I found a copper fitting that fit the body and made a adapter to hold a powder can with an lid from one. I use this one for BP now. I have a adapter for old ensforde and swiss bottles for it. I added a baffle in the adapters tube also.

Online metals sells metals for the hobbiest in 1 foot length increments. The tubing can be purchased to make the hopper and measuring tubes. Having tubes pre set for a often used charge is fast LOL. A 12" length of 1/2" od x .030 wall tubing will make 3 or 4 tubes depending on if you make them 3" or 4" lengths. A piece .437 X .030 wall makes the end and bushing for the bottom. this may need to be polished down a little to get a sliding fit. 12" makes enough for 6 tubes. A piece of 3/8 24 makes the od and a 1/3 stop collar makes the lock.

Kraschenbirn

09-02-2018, 11:26 AM

Fred's suggestion is probably your best bet. My own B&M was far from 'new' when I bought it from an estate auction over twenty years ago. The hopper, then, had already been replaced with one turned from heavy-wall aluminum tubing, complete with an o-ringed cap and powder level indicator. Over the course of more than a few thousand rounds of reloads, I've had to do a 'fix' or two of my own (a couple springs and a broken screw) but it's still the most consistently accurate measure I own.

Bill

leadhead

09-02-2018, 07:59 PM

The original measures were brass, then they used aluminum, Then, the last ones
made used plastic. I've seen them with a tube over a foot high. I don't know if
they were factory or "home made".
Denny

Kevin Rohrer

09-03-2018, 01:15 AM

The tubes are a standard size, and you can buy plastic tubes that will fit. I am pretty sure it is the same size as my Q-M hoppers.

Try contacting B&M. I stopped up there a few years ago and talked to them. They should have the tube.

Green Frog

09-03-2018, 08:23 AM

Thirty or so years ago when I was starting to accumulate my trove of reloading tools, the B&M Visble Powder Measure was regarded as the top of the heap. They also cost more on the used market and were harder to find than they are now. I really don’t know what has happened, but through it all I’ve continued to use and enjoy mine. I recommend that every serious reloaded probably should own one... I know I’m keeping at least one of mine!

Froggie

Hardcast416taylor

09-03-2018, 12:49 PM

I`m sure that all owners of the B&M measure know of the anguish and frustration over the broken powder sight glass when it happened.Robert

leadhead

09-04-2018, 10:39 AM

I just replace it with a thin piece of plexiglas.
Denny

country gent

09-04-2018, 10:48 AM

Weaponologist

09-05-2018, 09:27 PM

country gent

09-06-2018, 12:12 AM

I have a stand made from wood for clamp on measures. It can be c-clamped down or locked in place with a strap clamp or bolts. Mounting the belding and mull measures is a little different from rotary measures as the motion is side ways not up and down. The mounting needs to hold up to more twist.
I believe a lot mount these on the front edge of a shelf.

leadhead

09-06-2018, 09:48 AM

I cut a triangle shaped notch on the front of my bench..(overhang).
Then the measure sits back into the notch and can't move from side
to side when throwing the powder charges. Works perfect.
Denny

Green Frog

09-06-2018, 05:54 PM

Weaponologist, for schuetzen events (where competitors often load their cartridges on the bench as they shoot) I had a stand made from a pipe clamp. It had two flat plates of aluminum, one for my B&M powder measure and another for part of a Freeland scope stand to hold my spotting scope. Above them was a horizontal section of pipe to rest the rifle on between offhand shots. No reason a similar but shorter system couldn’t clamp to your reloading bench. :mrgreen:

Froggie

Bama

09-06-2018, 07:13 PM

On true glass windows in the B&M light rubber washers under the crew heads help stop slow the breaking cracking. allows for some give when expansion occurs and still keeps it sealed. On my one I glued the glass in with clear silicone sealant and use the screws barely snug to support. Its been running for years now like this.

Thank you all. Was away for the holiday weekend and just got back this evening. Will start my search this week with everyones suggestions. Something I didn't ask before cause I felt the hopper was more important but now that I have plenty of ideas to solve that issue. My next question is... Other than the blind screw method I saw someone added. What other Ideas do you all use for mounting your B&M? Have any of you made a portable stand you can bring the measure out when needed then put it away? I have so many different tools but only a limited amount of bench space. and my bench is very thick for the B&M.. I've been (C) clamping a board to the bench then just using the B&M own clamp to the board. Not very pretty but it works.. How do you guys work around this? Please show pic's if you have them... If I need to start another post with this question let me know and I will.....

I mounted mine on a 4/4” cherry board which I clamp to the reloading bench. Works great! When Ifirst started, the loading for the bench rest matches were given in the B&M units. Figured if it worked for those guys it should work for me and it has for. Over 40 years.

Garth Dial

01-27-2019, 10:54 PM

Belding and Mull is now apparently nothing more than just another gun shop. There is nothing on their website which indicates that they are manufacturing any of the reloading equipment or gun cleaning equipment for which they became famous. They are just another gun shop specializing in modern black guns. Sadness.

Green Frog

01-28-2019, 01:17 PM

Sorry to hear this. Back when I was actively acquiring gear for Schuetzen, I was in touch with the then-new owners of the name. They were building new measures and offered a complete line of parts to rebuild/maintain older units. I didn’t realize how long it had been... a danger when you get old! As for the window cracking problem, my earliest unit had little divots ground to accept the screw head, but it was old when I got it, so that could have been post-factory.

On other ones I had, broken windows were a problem. I went to a little Mom & Pop hardware store and got a few replacement glass windows cut for spares and never broke another one! JMMV

Froggie

Belding and Mull is now apparently nothing more than just another gun shop. There is nothing on their website which indicates that they are manufacturing any of the reloading equipment or gun cleaning equipment for which they became famous. They are just another gun shop specializing in modern black guns. Sadness.

country gent

01-28-2019, 03:25 PM

The 2 main castings, Body and handle probably became prohibitive in cost with the short runs. The block while a casting could be made from bar stock with out much trouble. The body while it could be made from bar stock would be a lot of chips and time machining from bar stock. Maybe one of the repro makers will pick it up with modern manufacturing and upgrades. Most of the parts are simple machining or off the shelf parts.

I have worked with a couple of these measures for years and find them accurate and easy to use. The big drawback is getting the measure tubes set to replicate a given load. The slide versions can be slow and tricky to et set to .1 grn of a desired setting. The thread adjustable ones are a little better for this. I have a couple I made that have a true micrometer adjustment and should be repeatable. Also one that is "click" adjustable.

With the c clamp mount I could envision one with a short hopper and baffle that uses powder bottles for the hopper, a slightly bigger "pre charge" chamber, and a accurate resettable measure tube. In this it would be both smokeless and Black powder like the originals were. Maybe 2 sizes one with the original 1/2" od measure tube and one that uses a 3/8" od measure tube for smaller pistol charges and small rifle cartridges. One would be in the 20-120 grn range the smaller in the 0-40 grn range.

The biggest drawback to this measure is the 2 hand operation dosnt allow for holding a loading block and charging cases like the newer rotary styles.

Shepherd2

01-28-2019, 04:44 PM

I just revisited this thread and I'm glad to see the ideas for mounting my B&M powder measure. I bought my measure at a gun show this fall and it didn't take long for me to come to really like the thing. I wish I'd bought one 50 years ago.

Themoose

01-19-2020, 12:51 PM

I just bought my first B&M "Visible" powder measure at a local gunshow yesterday. From what I can tell it seems to be complete with glass and brass cap for the hopper(applied some Kroil to allow me to remove it). The measuring tube has a threaded and calibrated rod micrometer like ring... last number on rod is "35" so I am guessing that it actually will go to 40... I do have a couple questions for those of you who either have or do use this tool.

1. A lot of force is required to move the lever, so much so that it will move even when clamped securely to the bench... could the previous owner have installed too heavy a spring, or should I just lube with some more Kroil, let it set and work it to see if it will loosen? I have no idea how much force it should take, but I'm guessing not much more than is required to return it to the closed position.

2. Should there be any type of baffle inside the main powder hopper? Mine is brass and the only thing visible on the inside are the three brass pins that are used to secure it in place.

3. As a lot of do, I am prone to take something apart before I ever use it... guess the little boy in us stays around til me take that dirt nap... Are there any suggestions or "aha! moments that you could share on disassembling, servicing and reassembling?

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience and knowledge..

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

Catch22

01-19-2020, 01:09 PM

I'm in a similar spot with some same questions as you, Themoose. I found a B&M Visible in a lot of stuff I bought a while back and got to tinkering with it a few days ago.

Mine was gunked up from storage, so I took it apart and cleaned the heck out of it. It's still requires a bit of force to operate and, like yours, will move even when clamped. I cleaned and polished up the contact surfaces and its still tough.

I'm not sure which measure I have, but it sounds pretty similar to the same one you do. I'd have to look again. I saw doing some research there's two different measuring tubes, but they seem hard to find.

I'm at the point now of wondering if I should just see about rehoming it or if it's something I'll actually use. I'm not so much into the antique type stuff, even though it's cool and all, but I could see it having some potential using it to load my C&B revolver.

country gent

01-19-2020, 01:14 PM

Lever force is an issue mounted tight and pushed back against a flat edge (like a shelf) will make the spinning less likely to occur. A slightly lighter spring will help here, but make sure it completely returns the charge block when released.

The baffle is already there when you drop measure a charge the block disconnects or shuts off from the hopper and the charge is weighed from whats in the charge block a st amount of powder. This was pretty much the original baffle.

Disassembly is pretty straight forward and simple. as with all spring loaded mechanisms be careful of the spring tension. On mine I replaced the standard screws with allen heads both button and caps as needed. Pay attention to each part and how it goes together / came apart. I would recommend on the block body tube hole ( any where powder can contact) to use a good dry lube. not an oil or grease. On the lever pivots linkage spring and the pin guide rod in it a light grease. There just isn't a lot to go wrong with these measures and they require little maintenance. Once lubed with graphite to start the coating on most powders will maintain the lubrication.

The measure tubes are also quite simple and require little. again dry lube and clean as needed. Which end does your tube have. flat or concave? There were 2 styles of tubes. the sliding standard tube with a sliding rod and lock screw. worked good but were harder to set. And the fine adjust with the threaded rod and graduated ring. I have made both styles. I have also made a true micrometer adjust for them.

The B&M measures are a very good measure and were rated for both smokeless and Black powder

Themoose

01-19-2020, 02:55 PM

Thanks for the info. My tube has the flat end

mazo kid

01-19-2020, 03:59 PM

I have acquired 3 of these unique little measures over the years. Mine all have brass powder hoppers, but one had a cracked view glass and 2 were missing hopper covers. I found an "unknown" brass cover that fit nicely, and turned a walnut cover that fit inside the hopper for the other one. I also have several measuring tubes including 2 micrometer adjustable ones. If looking for a tube, I suggest getting a Tedd Cash muzzleloading powder measure. They are just the right size. If too tight a slight bit of sanding at the top end will make things right.

M-Tecs

01-19-2020, 04:55 PM

instructions here

http://anhaica.net/arms/B&M.htm

MVA still makes and sells their version

https://montanavintagearms.com/product/reloading/black-powder-measure/

Pressman

01-19-2020, 04:57 PM

I have eight of them, plastic hoppers, aluminum hoppers and brass hoppers. The stiff spring is normal as is the twisting on the shelf. Use two hands. With long stick powders it is the best there is. Maybe a little slow, but very repeatable and exact. Cracked glass is common, it doesn't hurt anything but looks tacky.

Never, ever lubricate with Kroil. Use graphite lock lube under the aluminum slide.

Ken

mdi

01-19-2020, 05:26 PM

Catch22

01-19-2020, 06:39 PM

I can't remember if it was eBay or where, but I've seen replacement glass for these things. I would think a guy could have pieces cut, as well. A glass shop or something could probably cut it out of scrap as small as it is, would just need to match up the thickness.

M-Tecs

01-19-2020, 06:51 PM

FWIW, I remember reading about pyrodex after market powder measure hoppers https://www.google.com/search?q=glass+powder+measure+hoppers&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS874US874&oq=glass+powder+measure+hoppers&aqs=chrome..69i57.11206j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

That would be Pyrex Hoppers. They work great on Dillon's. If you can find the proper size they would work great. You need 1 1/2" OD.

They don't list sizes so you would have to call them. https://dramworx.com/products/

Kevin Rohrer

01-19-2020, 07:26 PM

I was there a few years ago. At that time, they were talking about releasing a special edition, which I would have bought. Maybe they lost their machinist. Am guessing capital is also a concern. Too bad.

255078

Themoose

01-20-2020, 08:59 AM

Thanks again for all your input. Pressman, I won't use Kroil on the measure itself. I only used a small amount so I could remove the brass cap without damage. Right now, I doubt that it useable due the hard pull required to cycle it. I will try cleaning and using graphite or lockease.

Bent Ramrod

01-21-2020, 10:06 AM

The hard spring return is designed to snip stick powder granules in two rather than having to vary the return by hand in order to bump them out of the way as the “visible” block returns to drop the charge. If you try to double the fill and return stroke, you will get more powder into the measure, so any variance to the open-and-shut stroke will vary the charge delivered in proportion.

I put a little shelf extension below the edge of my loading bench. It is just deep enough so the measure clamp yoke is pushed hard against the front of the shelf while the back of the measure is pushed hard against the edge of the bench top. As long as the clamp is kept tight, the measure can’t twist sideways. The end of the lever hits the edge of the loading bench as the powder drops, but this doesn’t interfere with the delivery.

I’m never in a hurry when I’m filling cases with powder, so the B&M is the one I use for smokeless loads. If you can find a B&M Handbook, it will have approximate micrometer measure settings for various powders, a lot of them obsolescent, but some still current. If you record the settings you use for given charges, and check with a scale, (as you should anyway), you can get arbitrarily close to your last charges when you come back to them.

Nueces

01-21-2020, 12:19 PM

One accurate way to reproduce charger settings is to use the depth stem of a caliper, either dial or digital. A feller with just one plain charger and a lathe might make up depth inserts for quick setting his standard charges.

Pressman

01-22-2020, 11:43 AM

255189

dryflash3

06-07-2022, 03:45 PM

Thank you all. Was away for the holiday weekend and just got back this evening. Will start my search this week with everyones suggestions. Something I didn't ask before cause I felt the hopper was more important but now that I have plenty of ideas to solve that issue. My next question is... Other than the blind screw method I saw someone added. What other Ideas do you all use for mounting your B&M? Have any of you made a portable stand you can bring the measure out when needed then put it away? I have so many different tools but only a limited amount of bench space. and my bench is very thick for the B&M.. I've been (C) clamping a board to the bench then just using the B&M own clamp to the board. Not very pretty but it works.. How do you guys work around this? Please show pic's if you have them... If I need to start another post with this question let me know and I will.....

https://i.imgur.com/0hhAga8l.jpg

My stand bolts to my bench using the existing holes for my Dillon 550.

The underside of the board that the power measure clamps to is bored with a 5/8 Forstners bit.

This allows the clamp disc to fit in the 1/4 inch deep recess and the press doesn't move when used.

I found where to drill the hole by clamping press to board hard. That left marks that guided the hole.

Drill that hole before attaching that board to the rest of the stand. Good luck.