Reduced power spring for S&W

[Tatume]

Please share your experience, good and bad, with replacing hammer springs and rebound springs in S&W revolvers.

[bosterr]

I tried a Power Custom main spring in a S & W 586 a while back and got a lot of light strikes that were probably using CCI primers. Once I bought an assortment of Wolff rebound springs that started at 11 lb and went heavier, but I can't remember how much stronger they went. Could have been 14 lb. I do remember I went with the 12 lb. because the 11 lb. didn't return the trigger very well. Since then I probably replaced rebound springs with 12 lb. on at least 6 more revolvers and they all worked very well.

[Outpost75]

I have handled and shot the late Ed McGivern's show guns which are now in the NRA Museum.

They all had stock springs and stiff actions. He wanted them to WORK!

[scattershot]

Good results here,but be aware that if you get misfires in double action you went too light.

[Chad5005]

not a fan of light springs in revolvers

[Hickory]

If you are going to reduce the spring tension on your S&W, Brownell's sell an in frame firing pin that is 0.010" longer than standard. However, don't reduce the spring tension too much you'll still want the hammer to strike fast and hard!

[Jtarm]

Never used one. I bend or grind factory springs to get the DA pull I want.

If you’re going to shoot all DA, bobbing/lightening the hammer helps.

Apex sells competition hammers & extended firing pins. But the hammers are not cheap.

Reduce it too much and you’ll end up limited to Federal primers.

[dubber123]

Not a fan of lightened mainsprings for several reasons, but I will reduce the rebound spring in revolvers which is often heavier than needed.

[Southern Son]

I had a smith put Wolf springs in my 686. I liked it so much that when I got my Mod 19, I put them into that. Then into my Mod 17. Unfortunately, the Mod 17 has been a bit of a disappointment. I can reload for the .357s, and I use Federal Primers which gives me the bang every time, but I have not been able to find an easy to ignite rimfire ammo and I have been getting fail to fire/light strikes which is annoying in a timed match. Love them in the .357s, but not in the rimfire.

[Char-Gar]

I quite grinding, bending, clipping coils and replacing revolver springs decades ago. Even factory springs will loose strength with time and use. When you start with a weak spring, you just hasten the day when you pull the trigger and you hear a click instead of a bang. The click could prove fatal or embarrassing at the least.

[Bazoo]

I've replace the rebound spring on 2 revolvers. A 642, I replaced it with a 12 pound spring if I recall correctly. It functioned flawlessly and the trigger reset was still good, but it lightened the pull enough to make it much more controllable.

The wifes 686, I replaced the rebound spring with a 12, and it didnt reset as "hard" as I wanted and switched it to 13 pounds. It still resets a touch light for my taste but she cannot handle anything heavier.

[rintinglen]

I replace rebound springs almost without exception, but I only replace mainsprings on guns that are strictly "toys." My PPC guns all had lightened springs, but I used Federal Gold Medal match primers exclusively in those. However, in my duty guns, I want a full power mainspring that will whack the primer stoutly.

[Mal Paso]

The factory S&W Mainspring is Better quality than most of the replacements and does not affect trigger pull very much. The trigger return spring is the one to change.

[El Bibliotecario]

Please share your experience, good and bad, with replacing hammer springs and rebound springs in S&W revolvers.

My personal experience is that they cause misfires and hang up the action during double action.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I put a full Wolff spring set in my 3" 686 Plus and a Cylinder & Slide extended firing pin. Its a bit finicky because I went light on the springs. I did create a brass shim (drilled a retention indent for the strain screw to positively hold it) to add some pressure back on it to lessen light strikes. This is only a competition/fun gun so I accept its not 100% reliable. It is not far off, it generally runs really well and the trigger is super slick. I did some action tuning on it also.

My EDC is a 442 J-frame that is always on me. That gun has a full Wilson Combat spring set, C&S ext. firing pin and some tuning. It is fairly light but it has proven 100% reliable, never let me down. Some of you wouldn't be comfortable with that but I am and thats all that matters. I am a competitive shooter when im not working or sleeping so I am comfortable with my choices.

I would highly recommend a C&S or Apex extended firing pin in any frame mounted S&W. I am a big fan of these, they increase reliability of ignition in any frame mounted S&W. All of my revolvers have one except collection guns and older hammer nose guns.

[imashooter2]

I've shot USPSA Revolver and ICORE for many years. My competition revolvers are a conservative 7 pound DA pull. The guys riding the edge are down around 5 pounds. I use Wolff rebounds and bend the factory mainspring similar to the Miculek springs using a simple jig of nails in a board. Any seriously lightened mainspring requires the use of Federal primers for reliability and I would never lighten the mainspring in a Revolver used for social purposes.

I’ve found that going less than 14 pounds on the rebound spring will limit reset speed for fast double action.

I have personally broken 2 of the C&S extended firing pins. I have no experience with the Apex. My competition guns run factory firing pins.

[beemer]

Not a S & W but a Taurus 605, I replaced the main spring with a Wolf reduced power spring for S & W 36, it made a difference in the DA pull. It worked fine till I tried some ammo that my buddy had loaded with rifle primers. Someone had given him the rifle primers, he doesn't load rifle ammo so he was trying to find out how they worked. My pistol would not set off most of them even with repeated strikes but would then work in his Ruger.

I know they were rifle primers but still this gun needs to work, it's not a show piece or a target pistol but my rough duty carry in the woods gun. It might be dirty,wet and frozen but it needs to work. So back went the stock spring.

[reddog81]

I've got a 12 lbs rebound spring in a 929 and that made a huge difference but the trigger return is kind of weak. I haven't had any problems but it is noticeable. A 14 lbs rebound spring in a 460 XVR dropped the DA trigger pull by about 1.5 lbs and the return isn't as noticeably changed.

I've never had good luck changing out mainsprings. In every S&W I've tested I always end up back using the original for 100% reliability.

[Mytmousemalibu]

On the C&S ext. pins, I was actually squadded with 2 of the guys from Cylinder & Slide at Area 3 last year. I had ask about the pins and the warning not to dry fire them without snap caps. The response I was told was the earlier pins had an issue but that was corrected. One our club shooters also runs a bunch of revos in USPSA and IDPA with C&S pins in everything with no issues. Not trying to make excuses for them, just my experiences. Good info to know if someone has had them break. I wouldn't be opposed to trying the Apex pins. I have run a bunch of Apex parts in my autofeeders and very happy with them.

[9.3X62AL]

OEM springs in my S&W revolvers. Period.

[gnostic]

Always a bad idea. Wolf Springs says, 'don't use lighter springs on self defence handguns' on their website...

[wv109323]

I lightened the springs on a 686. The trigger pull got dangerously light. Like 1/2 pound. I went back up in weight.

[edp2k]

Here is one trick to try which lightens the mainspring tension, which is 100% easily and quickly reversible.

Take a spent small pistol or rifle primer, remove the anvil, take a punch and remove the dent from the original firing pin impact.
now back off the mainspring strain screw
(make sure you use a good quality hollow ground screwdriver of the correct thickness and width;
Brownells screwdriver tips are great and won't bugger the screw slot or trash the screwdriver tip).

Place the spent primer between the screw tip and the mainspring with the cup side facing the screw.
Snug the screw down.
Shoot 50 rounds of your reloads using the live primer brand of your choice (or factory loads) to test reliability.

If you have reliability problems its a 2 minute fix to remove the spent primer and restore everything back to 100% original.
Many/most people I know experience reliability problems when lightening the mainspring.
Using this method is a cheap and easy way to try things and then be able to completely reverse it back.

[oldhenry]

I always use factory S&W main spring with strain screw all the way in. I do all of my changes to the trigger return spring & the power of it depends on what it takes to reliably return the trigger after I've honed the bore of the return spring, polished the sliding surfaces & shimmed the hammer.

I didn't have ignition problems with Winchester or Federal primers in my 25-5, 25-2 or 686 in IPSC.

[EMC45]

I actually went heavier Xtra Power Wolff for my I and J Frames. I like the snap.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I pretty much followed what oldhenry said - factory mainspring and setup, polish rebound block, sliding surfaces,return spring bore, then dry fire hundreds of times, check hammer, trigger for rubbed spots, shim accordingly. See how fast you can pull the trigger 100 times as an exercise, left and right-hands. Smooths the action AND strengthens your hand and trigger finger.

[salvadore]

Like jtarm, grinding and clipping is all on me. When I screw up, S&W springs are readily available. My M-17 is going on 30 yrs and is by far my most used shooter. I don't keep records but even at 1,000 rds per year, but, shooting a full 500 rds in a session hardly ever less than 200 rds anyway a lot more than 30,000 rds. The 30 year old ground and clipped springs still return the trigger and fire the cartridge.

[Goldstar225]

I was wanting a lighter trigger pull in my J frame S&W's (60-15 & 642). I ordered the Apex kit which consists of a reduced mainspring, reduced trigger return springs, reduced power firing pin spring and firing pin. The firing pin had a much smaller nose to it, presumably to give a deeper indent to the primer. I installed it in the 60-15. The trigger was great! Much lighter pull. Off to the range for the test. My accuracy improved with the Apex setup but I noted that the indents on the primers were much shallower, even with the new firing pin. Out of 100 rounds with a variety of primers I had 1 misfire. That's too much since these are defensive revolvers. I reinstalled the factory mainspring and firing pin, kept the reduced power trigger return spring. It was a bit of an improvement. I installed a reduced power (12 #) Wolff trigger return spring in the 642 but kept the factory mainspring. Another range trip with both guns. 100% ignition and a slight improvement in trigger pull.

If these were to be used only for target shooting I would have used the full Apex kit but for defensive use it's s no-go for me.

[Drm50]

I have a 19 I bought 30yrs ago. I was 3rd owner and new the guy that bought it new. He bought
after market springs and had a scope on the gun. Second guy sold it to me because of misfires.
Gun worked perfect with Win ammo but wouldn't fire much else, consistently. It was the main
spring. I put a stock S&W main in it and it will shoot anything now. Even hand loads with CCI
primers.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think this topic falls squarely in the "It depends" category.

I have a model 10 that is stock and I wouldn't change anything. It is as close to perfect as it's going to get. Same holds true for a model 629 that I have.

However, I have a model 64 that did receive a reduced power mainspring. It is purely a range toy and not a self defense gun.

I like a very positive trigger reset so I often do not reduce the weight of the trigger return spring.

These topics spread far beyond what can be covered in a brief forum post. There are times when some knowledgeable and prudent work can be performed on a DA revolver and make things better. There are also times when things should be left alone.

[imashooter2]

Here is one trick to try which lightens the mainspring tension, which is 100% easily and quickly reversible.

Take a spent small pistol or rifle primer, remove the anvil, take a punch and remove the dent from the original firing pin impact.
now back off the mainspring strain screw
-snip-

This increases spring tension. To reduce spring tension you make the strain screw shorter, not longer.

[Petrol & Powder]

This increases spring tension. To reduce spring tension you make the strain screw shorter, not longer.

/\ Correct and adding the spent primmer cup to the end of the strain screw is an old trick to add length to a strain screw that has been previously shortened.

Occasionally you will run across a S&W that someone has shortened the strain screw on (not a good practice in my opinion) and the solution is to replace the screw with one of the proper length. However, if you don't have a full length screw available, the expedient fix is to place a spent primer cup with the anvil removed, over the tip of the strain screw.

[Bigslug]

I have handled and shot the late Ed McGivern's show guns which are now in the NRA Museum.

They all had stock springs and stiff actions. He wanted them to WORK!

Not only that, he wanted them to work FAST. What was he running? Five rounds into a playing card in two fifths of a second? (or so says Wiki). That's a submachinegun cyclic rate of fire, made possible by springs that make the hammer fall quick and the trigger rebound quick. The gun is made that way to power through debris that may have worked into the mechanism and also to set off hard primers - & I've seen failures on both ends of the gun from monkeying with either spring. Seeing as Ed was shooting marbles out of the air with presumably the exact same gun, the heavier springs didn't appear to be a hindrance to his accuracy.

McGivern and his stock guns are a monument to the philosophy of fixing the issues with your technique rather than fixing a gun that isn't broken. Unless you're physically compromised and need to make allowances for a handicap, spend the money on ammo & practice.

[lightman]

I've replaced the springs in several of my S&W revolvers. Most were with either Trapper Gun Works or Wolf springs. After I replace them I immediately put the original springs back in the replacements spring package, staple it closed, mark what it came from and put it in my box of parts. If you shoot in competition I suggest running a few hundred rounds of the exact load through your revolver to prove its dependable. Anything I carry for defense has the factory springs in it. I have polished the sides of the hammer, trigger and rebound block on several revolvers. I don't have the tools or machinery to work on the sear engagement notch.

The fired primer trick is neat! I have filed that away for future needs!

[slughammer]

McGivern and his stock guns are a monument to the philosophy of fixing the issues with your technique rather than fixing a gun that isn't broken. Unless you're physically compromised and need to make allowances for a handicap, spend the money on ammo & practice.

I think we are all physically compromised compared to Ed McGivern! With the amount of shooters we have and their access to ammo (extra money in today's modern economy); nobody has beat him, and few can come close.

I've read Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting (several times), it's where I learned how to shoot double action. Ed was not afraid to have a gun modified to suit him. (Sights etc)

There is plenty of variation in stock springs to say they are not all the same. I keep stock springs around for when I sell a gun, but my shooters have been measured and tuned to where I want them for the purpose they serve (defense, hunting, fun, sport).

Keeping stock springs is like keeping stock cylinder throats and grips. Too much variation in what "stock" might be. What you get is just luck. I might get one that is perfect, but bragging about it doesn't discount that somebody else got one that needs to be tuned.

[Thin Man]

This thread reminds me about the first armorer's class I attended. It was for the S&W revolvers (yup, I'm THAT old!). The instructor was Lester Limrick who was the top armorer for the FBI in their Quantico facility. He was at the top of the food chain, the "boss without a boss" so to say. He told us the following story:

Lester was called to court to testify about a police officer's revolver. The officer had shot and killed a fellow and the revolver he was carrying at the time had been tuned (modified) so it was different than "stock" original issue. A civil lawsuit was brought based on the claim that the officer's firearm had been altered to make it faster to shoot. We don't know how they had this knowledge. Lester had already inspected the firearm before he took the witness stand. The plaintiff's lawyer asked Lester about the firearm's lockwork. Lester replied that the rebound spring had been reduced by 1 1/2 - 2 coils, and that the trigger pull was lighter from that change. The attorney then asked if this change made the firearm faster to shoot. Lester surprised the lawyer when he answered "no" and he explained as follows. When the rebound spring is reduced the pull weight against the trigger is lighter than original. However, the trigger recovers to it's "ready to fire again" position slower than it did when it had an original "uncut" rebound spring in it.
This revolver is slower to fire all it's rounds than an original, unaltered firearm. The tone of the lawyer's questions changed after that exchange. When the trial was over the jury found favor with the police officer's defense and awarded no damages to the family who brought the claim.

This story has remained with me for many years and I still use it as an example when customers ask about making the lightest trigger pull possible in their handguns. It's not just an issue with lawsuits against the owners of firearms that have been modified. This story also speaks to firearm reliability for those people without knowledge of their firearm's requirements when they produce novice firearm alterations.