Match shooting

[Just Duke]

So if a person shot well in high power rifle meaning the M-14 rifle would he not do well in BP matches? My eyes are not as good as they used to be able to hold ragged hole groups at 100 and 1 1/2 at 200 prone slung.
TIA,
Duke

[Don McDowell]

BPCR match shooting targets less than 200 are pretty much unheard of, and usually anything closer than 300 is shot off hand. So right away you've hit a big difference. Then a person also has to learn to deal with the lower velocity, "rainbow tragectories" and larger amounts of wind drift. Mirage also plays a huge role in shooting at the sort of distances in bpcr with iron sites.
When a 500ish gr 45 caliber bullet takes its 3.5-4 seconds to travel to that 1000 yd target there's lots of things along the way that can distract its attention.:mrgreen:

[KCSO]

Shootin is shootin' if you can hit with an M14 you can hit with a Sharps or a rollie or a muzzleloader. Just practice your offhand as 25% of a sillywet match is offhand.

[Just Duke]

BPCR match shooting targets less than 200 are pretty much unheard of, and usually anything closer than 300 is shot off hand. So right away you've hit a big difference. Then a person also has to learn to deal with the lower velocity, "rainbow tragectories" and larger amounts of wind drift. Mirage also plays a huge role in shooting at the sort of distances in bpcr with iron sites.
When a 500ish gr 45 caliber bullet takes its 3.5-4 seconds to travel to that 1000 yd target there's lots of things along the way that can distract its attention.:mrgreen:


M-14 matches can go to 1000. Most just go to 600.

[Boz330]

The basics are all the same but as Don pointed out the velocity is a third to half a modern gun and the trajetory is a little different to deal with. Even though you only have one powder to use there is an infinite number of combinations of powder, primer compression, neck tension or none, wads and thickness, etc, etc, etc. Because of the slow velocity any deviation can make a big difference at 500M. It can become frustrating at times unless you hit on a good load right off the bat. On the other hand that can be some of the fun of it if you enjoy that side of the sport.
BTW I went the spray and pray route with pistol and rifle for quite a few years myself and then came to BPCR. I'm old and slow now so it fits perfect. Enjoy while your eyes are still good. I finally had to go the Malcom scope route, got tired of not seeing the targets.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

M-14 matches can go to 1000. Most just go to 600.

Yup and the tof of a 168 gr match load for the 7.62 or even the 147 gr service load is completely different than that of the typical bpcr load. Huge diffence in lock time also. So reading the elements between the firing line and the target is even more critical in bpcr. Its seldom if ever you can't get a good solid cheek weld on the service rifle at the long ranges, its seldom if ever you get a good solid cheek weld with the bpcr at the long stuff. Most rear sight staffs will have at least 2 inches of elevation cranked into them for 1000 yd shooting with a bpcr.
Also there's no slings allowed in bpcr, so while in some matches you can shoot prone, there's a good bit of difference between getting all snugged into your sling with your shooting jacket, and rolling around on the ground with the rifle barrel slithering around on the cross sticks, and no buttstock supports allowed either. Off hand there's a good bit of difference in standing there wobblin around with an 8-9 lb service rifle and all the bells and whistles and shooting aids that you can use in highpower, and holding a 12 pound behemouth that's really muzzle heavy with no shooting aids other than the ones the almighty equipped you with on your original birthday.
Your experience with the highpower matches sure won't hurt the bpcr thing any, but they are two completely different shooting disciplines.

[Hip's Ax]

Duke, I just started shooting NRA black powder cartridge target rifle a year ago and I love it. I've been shooting high power, long range and smallbore for years and your years of match experience will let you do well almost immediately. I have 12 classifications and shooting offhand BP in the spring right after a long winter of indoor air rifle and 3P smallbore makes for some nice BPCTR groups so the experience is definitely applicable from your M1A. They even use the same exact targets that your use to.

Offhand at 200, 4 sighters and 10 record
Sitting from cross sticks at 300, 4 sighters and 10 record
Prone from cross sticks at 600, 4 sighters and 10 record

It is a little weird at first not having all the modern do hickeys but everybody else on the line is in the same boat. Also, its strange having to blow tube or run a wet patch down the barrel every shot. You get use to it pretty fast.

I got a CPA 45-70 for MR Position and I like it so much I just ordered another CPA in 45-90 for long range prone matches.

Try it, you will love it.

[Just Duke]

Duke, I just started shooting NRA black powder cartridge target rifle a year ago and I love it. I've been shooting high power, long range and smallbore for years and your years of match experience will let you do well almost immediately. I have 12 classifications and shooting offhand BP in the spring right after a long winter of indoor air rifle and 3P smallbore makes for some nice BPCTR groups so the experience is definitely applicable from your M1A. They even use the same exact targets that your use to.

Offhand at 200, 4 sighters and 10 record
Sitting from cross sticks at 300, 4 sighters and 10 record
Prone from cross sticks at 600, 4 sighters and 10 record

It is a little weird at first not having all the modern do hickeys but everybody else on the line is in the same boat. Also, its strange having to blow tube or run a wet patch down the barrel every shot. You get use to it pretty fast.

I got a CPA 45-70 for MR Position and I like it so much I just ordered another CPA in 45-90 for long range prone matches.

Try it, you will love it.

thanks hip Axe that helps me out alot. I suppose I won't have to do any magazine changes either. ;)

[Doc Highwall]

Duke, in smallbore you have to be a good shot and test ammo. In highpower you have to be a good shot and a good handloader. In black powder you have to be a good shot and a good handloader and a good boolit caster. In doing all three I can say with out a doubt the hardest thing I had to learn is that the slower the muzzle velocity the more important the follow through is. If you want the challange of something hard to shoot, try compitition air rifle where the muzzle velocity is only 600 fps. off hand. You will pull your hair out, it is HARD. Ask Hip's Ax

[runnin lead]

Magazine change, maybe theBPC news

[Hip's Ax]

Doc nailed it. Air Rifle is THE best training for offhand shooting bar none. BUT, while the air rifle will teach you follow through to the extreme the air rifle has many advantages. Perfect balance, no recoil and a rediculous amount of trigger over travel. Its also amazing how well they shoot, if you don't put it in the middle at 10m with a olympic grade air rifle you KNOW it was you and not ammo or anything else.

When I've been shooting a lot of air rifle and then pick up my smallbore rifle, my black powder cartridge rifle or my service rifle my offhand groups are a LOT smaller then usual.

The BPCTR has anything but perfect balance, its kind of like trying to hold an "I beam" straight out with your thumb and forefinger, darn things are ALL barrel. That tang sight is far from perfect too, only different size apertures, no filters or polarizers and its just too close to your hat brim in prone. But like I said, everybody else on that firing line is in the same exact boat as you are.

Pit duty is much more fun than in normal high power, since there is so much time between shots you mark the target and then sit down. Since the bullets are not supersonic you don't need ear protection so you can laugh and joke with everyone in the pits. Pit duty at BPCTR is fun.

Loading chores (and I do not load my own BP ammo yet, My friend is doing it for me as I still need a thing or two but it won't be much longer) are different as Doc said. The brass isn't resized the bullets are slip fit into the fired brass. OAL is set by measuring how much you compress the BP and wads. Bullet casting is done carefully and with a lot of quality checks. Hoch nose pour molds seem popular because it give you a better chance of a perfect base.

With all of the differences between the different types of rifle compeitition the most important things do not change, natural point of aim, sight alignment, trigger control and follow through are all paramount. Like I said Duke, you get that BPCTR, get a load worked out with fired brass and get some practice in and you'll do well.

Rapid fire with a black powder rifle would be fun! [smilie=1:

[montana_charlie]

Rapid fire with a black powder rifle would be fun!
A long time ago (funny how the years go by) I shot competition with a muzzle loading .45 caliber percussion T/C Hawken. One match had five shooters trying to bust ten clay pigeons that were hung by two strings piercing the edge of the clay. It was a timed match, and the shortest time used for all clays to be broken determined the winning squad.

We had to stand out in the grass at the fifty meter line, and there was no 'furniture' to put your stuff on. So, a shooter had to load out of his hunting pouch...like the old days.

The thing that slowed down completion times was when somebody cut one of the strings holding a clay target. That made it hang edge-on to the shooting line, and became very difficult to hit.
During 'our turn' we had four of those sideways clays, and our total time only got us second place...but I broke five targets, and two of those were the 'skinny ones'.

That performance was mostly due to how many rounds I fired, rather than being such a great shot. I no longer remember the actual numbers, but I was firing a patched ball about every forty-five seconds.

I would call that 'rapid fire' of a sort.

During my recent 'gong shoot' with my neighbor, we were at 200 yards when he had to get home. Since the gun was on target so reliably, and fouling wasn't making things difficult, I tried some 'rapid fire' after he left.

I had fired five as fast as I could load and squeeze when the cotter pin holding the top of the gong let go...allowing it to fall to a horizontal position.
I didn't have a clock going, but I doubt that I used more than fifteen seconds per shot...maybe closer to ten.
All five hit the dinger...but, of course, I was shooting from a bench and the gong was pretty big.

CM

[Brownie]

read an article one time said a good english soldier could load and fire his Brown Bess six times a minute, didn,t say if he could hit anything or not.