Beam scales accuracy

[BeemerMark]

This isn't about how accurate a given reloading beam scale is, the question is how accurately can it be read. I have a RCBS 505 that I've owned forever and (it's getting rather beat up) am looking for a new beam scale. One frustration I've always had is reading the pointer. 0.1 grains barely moves the pointer a hair breath from the scale center. So unless I hold my breath, squint with one eye and make sure my eyeball is level with the pointer (to avoid parallax) it's difficult to tell if the pointer is exactly in line with the scale center line. I'm looking at the classic Ohaus M-5 which has a vernier scale but what are the hash marks equal to? 1 grain? 0.1 grain? 10 grains?

I load pistol cartridges predominately and most loads are less than 10 grains. Another peeve of mine, if you have ever dealt with any type of instrumentation you know the most accurate (and easy to read) is an instrument where the maximum values read is equal to the maximum value you want to read. So except for maybe the 458 Lott or 50 BMG the maximum scale for any powder would not exceed a maximum scale of 100 grains not 500 or 1000 grains. For a pistol scale 25 grains would be enough.

[HangFireW8]

Sensitivity is the measure of how easily a scale moves. It needs to be less then the intended accuracy of the scale. On an older scale, sensitivity can be restored by sharpening the knives, and/or replacing the stones they sit on.

I have a 505. The 1/10 over/under markings are not spaced a hairs width apart on mine. Also it is 20 years old and still less than 1/10 sensitive. But then I dismount the beam after every use and store it in a purpose made box.

Scales that sit mounted will inevitably have something placed on top which will peen the knives. That happened to my previous scale, a Hornady. It was repaired for free, or at least for the cost of outbound shipping. That is when I got educated on beam scales.

[greenjoytj]

Ohaus M-5? A Google image search shows me that the Ohaus M-5 is the RCBS 1010 beam scale.
I knew that Ohaus made the 1010 for RCBS, but I did not known Ohaus sold it under their own name. The RCBS 1010/ Ohaus M-5 was a great scale and being such a nice all in one package/case design sold me on it many years ago. The current RCBS M1000 mechanical scale looks ungainly and I doubt it has a nice hard shell cover to enclose it for protection of its delicate parts.
I use a large hand held magnifying glass to zoom in to read the scale.
A beam scale is good to own, but for practical use I’ve moved on to digital scales.

Currently I’m using a twin set of RCBS 1500 digital scales, one on the dispenser the other as a stand alone to verify the dispenser scale.
Typically a dispensed charge won’t weight the same on both scales, one scale will read light.
Trickling in 2 to 3 individual granuals of powder will then make the pan with the charge read the same weight on both scales.

Maybe the knives on your scale just need a little touch up with a ceramic stone, clean out dust from the bearings. Be sure it’s used on a level surface with nothing that can make or hold a static electric charge. Use a magnifying glass.

[country gent]

I have used a piece of 6" metal machinist scales to make a new scale for the pointer to read against Most of these can be found that have 1/8,1/16 1/32 and 1/64 graduations. Or metric. My 5-10 and 304 only have 0 lines no graduations. Double faced tape does a fine job of holding the scale in place.
I have found some of the old oil dampened can be quite sensitive more so than the newer ones.
Some of the newer digitals are reading to .02 grns instead of the .1 grns now and can be quite accurate. Last are the old analytical balances that are as accurate as the weights used to set them.

One thing the more sensitive the scales the more suseptable to air currents vibrations and out side interference it is. My good digital scales is actually influenced by the furnace air conditioner if not place carefully. My old redding also.

[Mike W1]

226167226167

To aid in both seeing and having a level surface I built this little contraption. Lead weighted and 4 adjustable legs along with the magnifying glass. Seems to work well as check weights are always right on.

[Catshooter]

I like that Mike, that's clever.


Cat

[jime444]

Used beam scales for years. I then worked in the digital scale industry. Buy a decent digital scale, leave it powered up, find a good place to store it(safe, no drafts, interference issues) calibrate/zero it before use, you’ll never use a slow, difficulty beam scale ever again....... technology is your friend.

[Tatume]

How much variation in charge does it take to show on target? I don't have my notes handy, but I was surprised at the magnitude my own experiments indicated. This was when I switched from weighing every charge for my match ammo to dispensing powder with a volumetric measure.

[NyFirefighter357]

These are easy to read https://i.imgur.com/u8wa60q.jpg

[Chev. William]

I have two RCBS Beam scales: the First one purchased is a "5-10" and has a capacity of ~500 grains; The second one purchased is a "10-10" and has a capacity of ~500 grains. Both have the 1/10 grain set with a threaded rotating Drum with ten marked divisions on it outer surface.
These graduations are spaced out enough so I can Interpolate between marks to set the two Scale to about +/- 0.02 grains repeatably.
The major difference is that the "10-10" incorporates a removable plastic storage cover to keep most dust off The components when stored.

Over the years I have tried buying a couple of Electronic Scales and even a traveling dual pan balance.

However; I have NOT found any 'check weights' marked and calibrated in even 0.1 Grain increments, let alone 0.01 grain increments. The closest I seem to find are
1 grain and 1/10 GRAM increment 'check weights'.

Full scale verification is easy with the sets I have found but Low range is NOT, and I desire better than 1.0% accuracy in measuring 0.5 to 3.0 grain powder charges.

Not yet Economically available in my price ranges.

Chev. William

[jsizemore]

I've got a RCBS 304 scale. Built a wall hanging cabinet with various compartments. The space for the scale is at eye level. Since it's not on the bench it doesn't get influenced or jarred by the action of the press. Since it's at eye level there's no parallax. Cabinet is dadoed, glued and screwed. Items in the other cabinet compartments keep it damped. Sealed door over the scale keeps the dust out. Well, the biggest part anyway. I built it out of cabinet grade plywood 25+ years ago. Still doing it's job.

[beemer]

I was looking at scales a while back and most of what is offered looks to be cheaper made than the older ones, probably made in China. As far as I know Ohaus doesn't make beam scales for reloaders.

I believe the 505 you have is a 3 poise, that is what I prefer. The M5 is a 2 poise with the grain scale in 5 grain increments and the small poise up to 5 grains in .1 increments.

I found a RCBS 502 and a Ohaus Dial-O-Grain at an estate sale really cheap so I am set. The 502 doesn't have a scale for the pointer and I had to get used to the 2 poise beam but they work well. Mike W1 has set his up his at eye level, that really helps.

Lyman sells a set of check weights that start at .5 grain and go up. They might not be scientific quality but are good enough for my purpose. I use them to check new scales and myself till I get used to the lay out. I have checked 8-9 scales with these weights and very few are perfect through the entire range. Most were good at the low end with some being around .1 variation between scales.

I do like to keep 2 sets to check against each other. After looking at most of what is offered I would try to find a nice set of older scales. If your old scales are still functional maybe they can be cleaned up and recalibrated and kept for a spare.

Beemer

[kokomokid]

Get a cheap prism off e-bay and you can see level on the pointer from above it.

[Catshooter]

Chev,

The leveling screw of your 10-10 has a hollow top. That is there to hold a small weight that came with the scale when it was new. At the very end of the beam you'll notice a funny little stud poking out about 3/16ths. That's there to hang the weight off of. When you do your scale now weighs to 1,000 grains by doubling all the values.

Just FYI.


Cat

[Tatume]

Chev,

The leveling screw of your 10-10 has a hollow top. That is there to hold a small weight that came with the scale when it was new. At the very end of the beam you'll notice a funny little stud poking out about 3/16ths. That's there to hang the weight off of. When you do your scale now weighs to 1,000 grains by doubling all the values.Just FYI.

The last statement is incorrect. Using the weight adds 500 to the indicated values. Here is a PDF of the instruction sheet.

http://rcbs.com/RCBS/media/RCBSMedia/PDFs/Instructions/English%20(EN)/Model_10-10_Scale_Instructions.pdf

[redhawk0]

226167226167

To aid in both seeing and having a level surface I built this little contraption. Lead weighted and 4 adjustable legs along with the magnifying glass. Seems to work well as check weights are always right on.

Very clever...I like this idea.

I have a RCBS 505 (two of them actually)...mine will move almost full stop high or low when I move a 1/10 grain. I suggest you take a toothbrush and clean the dust out of the pivot point and make sure the triangle lever points are sharp.

If you are looking on Ebay for an Ohaus...just be aware that not all Ohaus scales are in grains...some are grams...so be sure to get the right one.

redhawk

[pworley1]

I have several beam scales and also several digital scales. After trying the digital scales I have now gone back to the M-5 scale. I guess I am just too old school to enjoy using the digital scales.

[Catshooter]

Thank you Tatume for catching my mistake. And here I thought I was perfect in every way! :)


Cat

[kungfustyle]

Look for relative distance. .01 grains off on a 49 grain charge of 4895 isn't going to affect the ballistics much. Heat and humidity can have more effect than .01 variance. Just look where the pointer is pointing and keep it there with each load. I got a Chargemaster lite and love the thing, however, I still use my beam scale to check the weight electric scales can be very finicky.

[country gent]

I have a few scales now and check them against each other occasionally, also several sets of check weights for this also. When setting a scales to a given charge ( especially the old redding that's 5 grn increments) I use the check weights like we did gage blocks in the shop. I get a "group of weights" that totals the charge or very close to it and then weigh them on the set scales, just to be sure of the setting and scales. On my digitals its nice to know they are reading an actual 42 grns as 42 grns.

The oil dampened scales sensitivity can be adjusted a little by the weight / amount of oil in the scales, but the lighter the fluid the longer it take to settle. SOme of the old herters scales had a little dampening lever that stopped the pan swinging and slowed ocilations a lot.

For check weights of a often used charge a weight can be fashioned from any soft metal or even epoxy and set to the weight desired. Lead is easiest it can be weighed in solid form slightly heavy and a small wood mould made. issue a flat ground drill bit to drill a hole deep enough to hold it all plus. Melt the lead and pour let cool and set to weight with a file on the bottom, then stamp weight in it.

[greenjoytj]

These are easy to read https://i.imgur.com/u8wa60q.jpg

This looks like a baby weighing scale. Weight the baby before and after feeding to see how many Onces it drank. Love my Chargemaster 1500. Keep squinting at those lines and dials boys.

[RED BEAR]

I use a cheap lee balance beam and you can definitely tell .1 grain i also just love my gemani digital. I have other scales lyman and rcbs and a couple of other digital but always go back to the lee or gemani they are just easier to use. And the gemini is graduated to .01 grain. I have double checked these scales with weights and against other scales and they are always on the money.

[Mal Paso]

This looks like a baby weighing scale. Weight the baby before and after feeding to see how many Onces it drank. Love my Chargemaster 1500. Keep squinting at those lines and dials boys.

But You said you need 2 Chargemaster 1500s to do the job and it took some fussing to get them to match.

[greenjoytj]

The twin scale system started as just to get a second 1500 scale, in case the one mounted to the dispenser quit working. I had noticed that RCBS stopped selling the 1500 scale as a separately available item. The replacement didn’t look like it would plug and play with the dispenser and they brought out a new dispenser “lite” version. I interpret that as, the days are numbered for the whole Chargemaster 1500 system being repairable in the not too distant future.
Once I had the 2 scales it was natural to fire them both up and test them against each other.
I was surprised that dispensed powder charges did not weigh exactly to the same tenth on both scales. I suspect that in the digital scales computer program there is a grey area where the scale must decide when or where to round the measurement up or down to the nearest whole tenth digit which is the scales max resolution. I don’t need to add 2 or 3 granules of powder in order to make the charge weight the same every time, sometimes they match as dispensed. As initially dispensed would be good enough at my shooting skill level and range distance. Some days I feel real anal about charge weights and fiddling to match weights makes me think the load will be a little more precise. I don’t read any posts about reloaders testing 2 reloader grade scales of any kind against each other. I suspect if they did, they would see a tiny difference in weights measured by reading between the scale lines.

[Mal Paso]

The twin scale system started as just to get a second 1500 scale, in case the one mounted to the dispenser quit working. I had noticed that RCBS stopped selling the 1500 scale as a separately available item. The replacement didn’t look like it would plug and play with the dispenser and they brought out a new dispenser “lite” version. I interpret that as, the days are numbered for the whole Chargemaster 1500 system being repairable in the not too distant future.
Once I had the 2 scales it was natural to fire them both up and test them against each other.
I was surprised that dispensed powder charges did not weigh exactly to the same tenth on both scales. I suspect that in the digit scale computer program there is a grey area where the scale must decide when or where to round the measurement up or down to the nearest whole tenth digit which is the scales max resolution. I don’t need to add 2 or 3 granules of powder in order to make the charge weight the same every time, sometimes they match as dispensed. As initially dispensed would be good enough at my shooting skill level and range distance. Some days I feel real anal about charge weights and fiddling to match weights makes me think the load will be a little more precise. I don’t read any posts about reloaders testing 2 reloader grade scales of any kind against each other. I suspect if they did, they would see a tiny difference in weights measured by reading between the scale lines.

Thanks for your insight. I still think the Dial-O-Grain was cool though, accurate to 610 grains. LOL I'll bet you could get accessory weights for really large calibers.

[Bent Ramrod]

Back when I was doing lab work, some of the better pre-electronic dual-pan balances had the pointer index marks on a mirror surface. You could see the reflection of the pointer on the index. If you lined up the pointer so it overlapped the reflection and both were on (or oscillating evenly around) the zero mark, you could get exact readings and weights; at least as exact as the balance could deliver.

Of course, you couldn’t be looking down on the index on a bench; it had to be more or less at eye level. The pointer of the single pan Ohaus shown is closer to eye level than the more easily stored balances used now. But I wonder why the mirror trick hasn’t been used in any of these.

[trapper9260]

I have a Lyman 500 and had the pin to balance it had come undone and sent it to Lyman and they fix it and check how close it is and it is with in 1/10 .I use that more then the digital one I have.I had got the Lyman when I got a kit back in the mid to late 80's when I got my T-Press of Lyman by mail order catalog from Gander Mountain when they where a company.

[nicholst55]

Some folks buy an inexpensive fiber-optic camera for a laptop, and set it up to display the balance pointer on their scales. Set the laptop in a convenient location, and you can even have a magnified view of your scale's balance pointer.

And FWIW, the Lyman also sold a rebranded Ohaus M5 scale.

[OFFSHORE]

I run two scales when reloading. I shoot a lot of long range rifles (800 to 1200 yds.) and I need to be precise on everything I do. . .I weight sort brass, bullets and even dole out powder to a couple kernels at a time. I first spoon out a charge on a Dillon D-Terminator scale then I check it against my Ohaus 10-10 beam scale. I had the Ohaus scale calibrated/tuned and it will swing with a single kernel of VhitaVouri N560! Loading cast boolit stuff for handguns I'm not as anal, but I'll still check charges with the beam scale. I had a similar problem as you with reading the alignment marks (turned 43 yrs. old and things went to ****) so I epoxied a sewing needle to the frame, NOT THE BEAM, to where it just over lapped the beam pointer mark and it helped me a great deal. After seeing that nifty way of mounting a magnifying glass in front of the scale in the above post, I'm gonna be setting myself up with one of those. Very good idea, Sir! Thank you for posting that.

[smokeywolf]

Thanks for your insight. I still think the Dial-O-Grain was cool though, accurate to 610 grains. LOL I'll bet you could get accessory weights for really large calibers.

You don't need to add weights. Just look for a Ohaus 3100 Dial-O-Grain. Of course they're harder to find than hen's teeth. Good to 3100 grains.

[LeadHead72]

Ohaus M-5? A Google image search shows me that the Ohaus M-5 is the RCBS 1010 beam scale.
I knew that Ohaus made the 1010 for RCBS, but I did not known Ohaus sold it under their own name. The RCBS 1010/ Ohaus M-5 was a great scale and being such a nice all in one package/case design sold me on it many years ago. The current RCBS M1000 mechanical scale looks ungainly and I doubt it has a nice hard shell cover to enclose it for protection of its delicate parts.

Actually the M5 is a different animal from the 10-10. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the M5 was only marketed under Lyman's name while being manufactured by Ohaus. You can easily tell the difference between the models because the M5 does not have the micrometer adjustment for the secondary poise that the 10-10 is known for. Ohaus did indeed sell the 10-10 model under their own name using the same 10-10 model number, however, and it is identical to the RCBS branded unit except for the fact Ohaus typically painted their own model beige instead of RCBS green. The only other difference that I am aware of is the included check weight on at least some of them were slightly different diameter than the check weight on the RCBS branded unit.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

[Dieselhorses]

I use a Hornady beam scale. Before I weigh on it, I gently rock beam back and forth a few times, set the weight and match against 2 digital scales. It's always right on.

[Catshooter]

Offshore,

Who tuned your scale? I'd like to do that to mine.

Thanks.


Cat

[OFFSHORE]

Offshore,

Who tuned your scale? I'd like to do that to mine.

Thanks.


Cat

It has been a while ago, and I can't remember his name. I have "heard" he is no longer doing them or if he is. it could be some time before you get it back. I believe he started a new job or there wasn't the demand for his niche. I will try and look that up for you. . .I just can't remember at this moment.

[OFFSHORE]

Offshore,

Who tuned your scale? I'd like to do that to mine.

Thanks.


Cat

Cat,

I want to say I was given his info off of the Accurate Shooters Forum. . .this is popping into my head at the moment. I'll see if I can dig up his info for you.

[Catshooter]

Thanks Offshore, I appreciate it.


Cat

[Lloyd Smale]

my opinion too. I chuckle at some so called experts that will bad mouth a digital scale but don't think twice about using some 15 dollar lee beam scale made out of plastic. Ive got two digital pact scales and a lyman. Havent used a beam scale in over 15 years. Still have a couple of those dust collectors in the drawer though in case the power goes out the same day my battery pack goes dead and im out of gas and cant go buy new batterys. Im about as apt to use a beam scale again as I am to convert my sliverado to crank start or trade the color tv in on an old tube black and white model. Or give up my Dillon press and load 9mms single stage or toss the star out and go back to an old lyman. Were talking .1s here not .00001. Unless your a bench rest competitor your not going to gain a thing worrying about it. You can take a 9mm 44 mag ect and grab your brass and load it using a powder drop and get a 1.5 inch group. or you can spend hours trimming brass, informing flash holes, trimming brass, weight separating you bullets, using a high dollar micrometer seating die and weighing each charge on your 300 dollar laboratory beam scale right down to the .001 of a grain and maybe you will get that group down to 1.3 inch.
Used beam scales for years. I then worked in the digital scale industry. Buy a decent digital scale, leave it powered up, find a good place to store it(safe, no drafts, interference issues) calibrate/zero it before use, you’ll never use a slow, difficulty beam scale ever again....... technology is your friend.

[Echo]

Chev,

The leveling screw of your 10-10 has a hollow top. That is there to hold a small weight that came with the scale when it was new. At the very end of the beam you'll notice a funny little stud poking out about 3/16ths. That's there to hang the weight off of. When you do your scale now weighs to 1,000 grains by doubling all the values.

Just FYI.


Cat

Wrong. You get the value by ADDING 500 to the shown weight. I have one I've used for decades, but prefer the 5-10, as it is handier, and is my recommendation to the OP. Check on eBay - they show up often for $40-50 delivered.

[LeadHead72]

Wrong. You get the value by ADDING 500 to the shown weight. I have one I've used for decades, but prefer the 5-10, as it is handier, and is my recommendation to the OP. Check on eBay - they show up often for $40-50 delivered.

I have the 5-10 and the 10-10. Gotta say the 5-10 rarely gets any action, but it is indeed a nice scale.

[Mike W1]

On the Lyman M-5 made by Ohaus you hang the extra weight on the pointer end and add 500 also
226777

[Catshooter]

Yes, Echo, I know I made a mistake. It was corrected in post #15 which you would have seen had you read the thread.


Cat

[barrabruce]

Speaking of scales.
What’s the smallest beam.
10-10 10-05 the only ones that come with a pack away container?
I have a Lyman d7 I’ve used for 35 years but would like a nice small travel one.
Any thoughts

[alamogunr]

OK! I'm interested in a digital scale. I've seen many posts that condemn them and many in this thread that indicate they are the only thing to use.

Obviously, there are scales and then there are scales the really work. Name some that really work.

[country gent]

I have the gem pro 250 its a very good scales for around $100.00. Reads in 5 scales. Read out is backlighted and reads to .02 grains. Has a built in cover comes with carry case and operates on batteries or ac. Mine has been very good over the last 5 years of use.

[Lloyd Smale]

stick with a brand name rcbs, pact, lyman, Hornady ect and youll get a good scale. I think most of the negitives come from the more frugal here that want good equipment cheap and buy pro 1000s and scales off of ebay. if you have only 20 bucks your better off with a lee beam scale. If you have only 75 your probably better off with a lower line rcbs, lyman or Hornady. When you get to around a 100 bucks and up you can buy a good serviceable digital scale. I think too some bad opinions of them came from when they were relatively new and some had teething pains.
OK! I'm interested in a digital scale. I've seen many posts that condemn them and many in this thread that indicate they are the only thing to use.

Obviously, there are scales and then there are scales the really work. Name some that really work.