New to me #1 .45-70!!

[Potsy]

I've not picked it up yet, but I'm about to take posession of a newer model Ruger #1 .45-70. :-D

I've read a good deal about the cartridge and just had a few questions that I couldn't find answers to elsewhere, including this site.

I'm planning on shooting a cast bullet somewhere around 400 grains at 1700-1800 fps (assuming such a load isn't a little more than I can stand in a 7-8lb #1).
I'm looking at the Lee, Lyman, & RCBS designs. The Lee and Lyman are the cheapest and I've had good luck with their designs before, I'm just wondering if I don't need a gas check at that speed (ala RCBS) even though the pressure should be somewhere just under 30,000 PSI. Bullets will be wheelweight or heat treated wheelweight. As far as other brands of moulds go, I'm open to suggestions.

Also, the lube currently in the Lyman sizer is Lee Alox & Beeswax, do I need anything different there? (been thinking about trying LBT soft blue anyhow)

Powderwise, I was just planning on starting around 50 grains on 3031 and dumping powder until I hit about 1750 FPS accross the chrony or the recoil becomes objectionable. I would like a powder that works well with 300-400 grain bullets at midrange to heavy loads, 3031 seems to do this. Any other suggestions?

Planning on either Starline or Winchester Brass. Seems hard to go wrong either way on that one.

This will be a hunting rifle and I'd prefer a bullet with a fairly large flat point moving at all the speed I can control well. Accuracywise, I'll take all I can get, but speed would seem more important than bughole groups, as this will be my "200 yards or less" gun.

Not counting a Trapper .45 colt I used to own, this is my first big bore rifle, and the first rilfe (shooting rifle cartridges) that I've cast for. Any tips or tricks on #1's or the cartridge itself are very much appreciated. Sorry if my questions are redundant, and thanks in advance for the replies!!

[WildmanJack]

Hey Potsy,
I can't give u much info on loads for your #1 but I can tell you that Ltar Line brass makes everyone else's look like tin cans. I've been shooting Starline in .45 Colt for a good while now and I think it's the strongest brass I've ever used. Just for kicks, u didn't work for PBSO once upon a time did ya? Good luck with your loading,
Jack

[HEAD0001]

That will be a pretty stout load. IMO anything over 1600 fps is more than what is needed for 200 yard and in shots. I have ran non gas checked bullets out of straight WW up to 1800 fps without leading, but I prefer to stay in the 1600 fps range. I get very little leading at 1600 fps, but when I go to 1800 fps I get some leading after 20 or so shots.

I prefer RL7 powder. I do not care for 3031, but that is just my opinion. Most of my 45-70's average out at 1600 fps with 40.0 grains of RL7. Your Ruger can easily handle this load.

I have used Lyman and RCBS molds for 45-70. Both seem to shoot well if sized properly. Tom.

[stillhunter]

Try 23 gr 4227 and a 405 cast PB for a start. Shim between your forend and the hanger bar just so that the barrell is free floating. Nice load that shoots 2 1/2 inches and will kill anything in PA. You will love the gun. Enjoy

[wiljen]

Know that the 45/70 #1s have no throat and you will do fine. They don't like some longer bullets, especially those with a lot of full diameter body ahead of the case. The lee 330 or Lyman 457122 or 457191 over 21.5gr of unique makes a good mild load. For stout loads, it is hard to beat varget or H335.

[Typecaster]

Congrats on getting the #1 bug...

The #1 may be able to handle stouter loads than a trapdoor, et. al., but remember it's pretty light. If you ever get the chance to play with a #1 in .458 Win. Mag. you'll see that the .458 barrel is SUBSTANTIALLY heavier than the 45/70. That translates into weight/mass/less felt recoil.

When I first got my #1 45/70 (about 1978) I was younger and a whole lot smarter. I loaded up from trapdoor loads to close to max in 5-round batches and sat down to shoot. At first it was pleasant...then I decided to stand up (my elbows were raw)...and when it would rock me backward enough that my left foot lifted off the ground, I figured that was tops for me. I don't remember the loads, but I know I wasn't near the published maximum. I do know it was the RCBS 405-gr. boolet.

So work your way up—you'll find out where to stop.

Richard

[9.3X62AL]

I have a #1 in 45-70, and it is VERY accurate. It will do 1.25"-1.5" @ 100 yards with the Lee 405 grain plain base from 1000-1300 FPS.

Even running the 405 grainers to 1500 FPS+, I don't consider the 45-70 to be a 200 yard game rifle. I limit my shots to 150 yards, and the old 1873 ballistics will do fine work at that range.

[August]

You are in the ballpark! Congratulations on the new rifle. They are sweet!!!

I could tell you the story about coming home from the range with the whole (!) right side of my body black and blue, but I'll spare you. Suffice it to say, that you are talking about some hot loads there. They get nice around 1300 fps. Do some 400 grainers with 12 grains of unique for starters.

May I suggest you start with a light load to get used to the rifle and build your confidence in its abilities. Then, you can work up some elephant loads for hunting.

You will not want to sit behind that rifle at 1800 fps for a five round string. At least, I don't.

[Throckmorton]

The 'secret' to shooting those thumper loads is to NOT shoot them all hunkered down at a bench. OUCH
over the hood of a truck,or resting the rifle in your hand whjle suppporting that hand aganist an upright post at the range is MUCH easie on the shooter..not so great for 'accuracy' work tho I suppose.
The other secret is start out with 300 grain pills and work your way up.

CONGRATS on your new 'toy' !!!!

[Shooter6br]

I have a NO 1 with laminate stock and SS. I find the throat isnt too long I shoot 350g Ranch Dogs and Lyman 405 ers OAL with the 405 s is 2.530 Have never used heavier bullets. I use Unique Red dot Trailboss and many otherss. I like Varget I am shooting 1500fps or lower for targets. I am trying 4759 . There are many powders for greater than 1500 fps. H322 is good . Have to gas check em. Great gun I have a Leupold 2 x 7 heavy reticle model on mine.Check out Ranch Dog web site for some loads

[1Shirt]

Potsy, My #1 shoots well with just about any cast blt over 2400, someplace between 20 and 26 grains for the vols you list.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Potsy]

Many thanks for all the replies!!

I've had a 1A 7 Mauser for about 7 years and realized when I picked up the .45-70 and it wasn't much if any heavier that it's gonna make a run at me. I probably will at least start on the lower end to keep it from getting too ugly too quick. I have fired Marlins with factory 400's and didn't really think it was that big a deal. And I'm no recoil "He-Man".

WildmanJack, never worked for PBSO but my experience with Starline brass in a .45 Colt mirrors yours.

Another thought; I know a 300 grainer can cruise around 2400 fps no problem out of a #1. I've never checked on .45 caliber bullets, but .44's are (relatively) flat shooting at a little less speed out of a .444 Marlin. Any thoughts on fast stepping 300's? I realize it may be a jacketed proposition at that speed.

Yeah, I know, I'm setting myself up to take a pounding. Eventually, I'll have to find the #1 upper end. I did the same with the .45 colt in 6 shot Ruger and now happily never break 1200 fps. But ain't it fun!!!!

I'm learning a lot!! Keep the replies coming!!

Thanks Again!!

[45-70marlin]

I have a no. 1 and shoot the lyman 457125 RN about 500 grains with 38.0 grains of IMR-4895 and get about 1217fps out of it, I also shoot the lyman 457124RN about 386 grains with ww, with 48.0grains of IMR-4895. they are about 1598fps. They are both very accurate and dont kick the piss out of you. :]

[PatMarlin]

I coulda woulda shoulda bought one I passed on when I had the chance. Boy it was a beaut.

Congrats on the new Ruger. I love number1's.

[9.3X62AL]

My own recoil toleration listing for the #1 x 45-70........

300 grainers at 1600 FPS can go all day.

405 grainers at 1300 FPS (1873 level loads) are another all-day proposition.

560 grain Mastodon Flatteners (Lyman #462560) at 1100 FPS I can do about 50 at one sitting, then it's time for a beer or two.

350 grain Hornadys at 2150 FPS are about like tackling LaDanian Tomlinson straight-on.

400 grain Speer FN at 1850 are indistinguishable from the 350 Hornady mentioned above, complete with eye-watering and nasal tract bubbles.

Make SURE to find a mould that casts large enough for your rifle's bore. My rifle runs .459", and .457" castings are a waste of time and boolit metal.

[Potsy]

If I really like it (and heaven knows I love my other #1), it might not be a bad idea to replace the factory black pad with something alot softer and thicker. Any recommendations in that department?

[Nardoo]

My #1 wears a limbsaver and makes the heavy loads far more tolerable. I have a couple of Sharps for low end 45/70 loads but save the Ruger for full power loads that I hunt with.
Mine shoots fat slugs better as it has a .461" bore. The group buy 462-420 GC shoots 1 1/2 MOA at full power, which is 56 gns of R 2206 (similar to your 3031) or AR 2206H (H4895). Velocity is 1970 fps and lube is a moly based one. This is a good killing load with pretty reasonable trajectory. Recoil is up there but not a problem when hunting.
I have also had good luck with the RCBS 458-405 GC Beagled to .461" as you can see in the pic. The CBE 458405 GC is just as good when Beagled and is a better killer with its huge meplat.
If you want velocity then gas check bullets are the go, though I have used inverted gas checks under plain base bullets with good results.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_1236.jpg

Nardoo

[PatMarlin]

That is some nice shooting Nardoo.

I need to beagle my 405 also. Could you take a pic of your mold showing how you did that? I have yet to beagle a mold, but I need to do a few.

[Potsy]

Has anyone used a Ranch Dog Mold in a #1?
I like the wide metplat but wonder how it would work in the short Ruger throat.
I also like the .460 diameter as some here have indicated ruger bores run on the wide side.
I also really like the price.

Now for a silly question, how do you "beagle" a mold and why?

[Refraktorius]

Now for a silly question, how do you "beagle" a mold and why?

You add two small strips of aluminium tape to the faces of the mold, to cast slightly larger boolits.

Here is an article about it:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/castingcouch/index.asp

[45nut]

Also look at the article by "Beagle" himself.

http://ktsammo.250x.com/castboolits/cst3.html

[PatMarlin]

I know how to do it, thanks but I would like to see Nardoo's... :drinks:

[Nardoo]

Pat,
I have been through this before so forgive me if I am being repetitious. We do not have the adhesive ducting tape you guys use so I use some .002" metal foil glued with high temperature silicone. You will notice the RCBS 458-405 has two strips on one side and one one the other. This gives me a bullet .003" over size.
The Lyman 457124 HP has one strip on each side as it throws a .459" slug.

As Beagle told us the bullets somehow come out round - don't ask me how but I know they shoot! My Ruger will keyhole .457" bullets and shoot the same ones beagled to .461" very accurately.

I do not have to worry about a short throat as mine got shot away when I fire lapped the bore. Luckily for me the damn barrel now thinks it is a Badger and shoots like a target barrel.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_0224.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_0229.jpg
Pat, I just got some big bars for my Stihl 088 to cut some planks. Boy it is time consuming sharpening all those cutters. I got to get a mill.

Nardoo

[PatMarlin]

OK- Now that's what I'm talking about!

Thanks for taking your time to post some great pics for us on Beagling Nardoo!!!

Ya- I used a chainsaw for ripping for 7 years. Luckily I have a sharpening jig that's customised for ripping chain, but now with the Woodmizer LT40 I'm a bandsaw man., Boy what a lot less work.

I love the effect of the chain saw marks as a unique looking board though. If you just skip plane, or belt sand the very top rough surface off, and leave the saw grooves it is a very cool look effect on the wood. I love it.

[PatMarlin]

As Beagle told us the bullets somehow come out round - don't ask me how but I know they shoot! My Ruger will keyhole .457" bullets and shoot the same ones beagled to .461" very accurately.

Nardoo

And that kinda shoots the complaint guys have about their molds casting out of round boolits being a problem doesn't it?... :mrgreen:

[Dale53]

I have had excellent results with RL 7 and the Lee 350 RF. I, this past year, received a Ranch Dog 350 gr bullet and will be working with it in my Marlin 1895 and my Ruger #3. I have no desire to challenge the .458 Win Mag (been there and done that:confused:).

I have a bunch of Lyman 457322 H.P.'s cast up and will be loading the #3 with a duplex (smokeless/black powder load). With duplex, I can shoot all day without cleaning, have a full case of powder and yet keep the velocity in the black powder realm. Plus, I have quite a bit of black powder to work with. Of course, at the end of the day, I will have to properly clean the rifle (that takes all of 5 minutes with a BPCR:mrgreen:). The #3 is a rather light rifle and 1873 level loads will suit me just fine...

Here is loading information with RL-7:
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeDetail.aspx?title=Centerfire%20Load&gtypeid=2&weight=300&shellid=109&bulletid=164

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeDetail.aspx?title=Centerfire%20Load&gtypeid=2&weight=350&shellid=108&bulletid=160

Dale53