Lead bullet

[BobInAus]

G'day gents,
What do you find to be the most accurate bullet makeup in the 44wcf, wheel weights or straight lead?
Regards
Bob.

[fordwannabe]

My 1889 Marlin likes 50/50 wheel weight and pure with a little tin for fill out. Harder shoots just as well but no expansion on deer. Softer makes for a long night of scrubbing lead out of the barrel. Just how my particular rifle is yours may be different.

[Grmps]

How fast are you going to push the boolit, are you planning on using a gas check (highly recommended over 1600 fps) and what are you going to do with it?
this will give you an idea of hardness vs fps

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

https://i.imgur.com/7B2ZGhs.png

Cheers

Grmps

[Nobade]

20:1 lead/tin, fffg black powder. Just like it's made for.

[gwpercle]

50/50 clip on wheel weights and soft lead.
Accurate and a good hunting boolit. Hard enough to shoot well but soft enough to mushroom and not shatter like a harder boolit.
Ever since my free wheel weight source retired I've gone 50/50 and wish I had done so years ago.
G'day to you Bob !
I've always wanted to say G'day but didn't know how to spell it !
Gary

[BobInAus]

Thanks for all the reply gents.
G'day to you too Gary. I had been using AP70N with straight lead and SPG, with no leading, but with a few resulting comments I will have to harden up the bullets a little, probably with the wheel weight combination. I was looking for somewhere about 1300 fps with approximately 12,000 cup and a plain based bullet. I was going to try some trail boss but after reading a number of recent comments I think I'll try 24.5 gr Reloader 7. I was of the opinion that if you kept velocity down to 1300 fps with a good lube, straight lead and good bore fill out there would be no leading. Any chance of some comments on this please?
Thanks again all.
Bob.

[Larry Gibson]

Add 2% tin to your COWWs prior to mixing with lead. That will balance out the antimony with the tin and make a better alloy. Then start at 20% of that alloy with 80% lead and test. Increase the % of the alloy in 10% increments until you get the results you want.

I use a 240 gr bullet (Lyman 429360 or Lee TL 430-240-SWC) lubed with BAC over 8.5 gr Unique in my "heavy" 44-40 loads. Works for me. Haven't tried the RL7 load yet but it's on the bucket list......

[CamoWhamo]

Hi Bob,

I've got 2 44-40's and have been learning alot and gaining experience as i test a few different bullets and powders.

I started with the Hardball but it didn't work well at all with any powder other than Trailboss. I have been told by the knowledgeable people here that the allow was too hard and the bullets couldn't obturate. Trailboss works because it gives the bullets a good initial shove to cause obturation.

I am now using a mix of 94% lead, 3% tin and 3% antimony. I make it by mixing the hardball 50/50 with a 25:1 lead:tin alloy.
I get my lead from Northern Smeltors in Qld. When my current stocks is all used up i will get them to make me some 94:3:3

Have you slugged your bore?

I have had poor performance with the ADI pistol powders. Velocities way below expected and lots of unburnt powder.
Trailboss works great.

I am using Unique as my normal load but am trying 2400 and Reloader 7. I put 150 rounds across the chronograph yesterday. Reloader 7 continues to surprise. Good velocities and burns cleanly, but it is an expensive proposition when a pound of powder can only do 280 loads compared to 800+ with unique.

[salvadore]

Just an aside, if obtaining spg is difficult or expensive I'm told 50/50 parafin and petrolium jelly with a smidge of stp. I don't bother with the stp is pretty close. Anyway it's Darr, Dar, Darrs lube something like that. I'm pretty sure you can't get 1300fps safely with TB.

[Outpost75]

Original blackpowder loads were either pure lead or lightly alloyed with tin, either 1:75, 1:50 or 1:40, depending upon manufacture.

I use 1:40 tin-lead with both smokeless and black for hunting ammunition, good accuracy and bullet performance.

For quantity range ammo I use 50-50 mix of clip-on wheelweights and nearly pure plumber's lead or xray shielding with 1% tin added to improve fillout.

8-10 BHN is best.

Bullet I use with black powder is: 225744

Bullet I use for smokeless powder is: 225745

[Grmps]

I had to figure it out.
Larry G's alloy -- 9.5 BHN, then 9.6 BHN 9.8 BHN

https://i.imgur.com/j19RcAg.png

So between Larry and Outpost, 9.5 to 10 BHN is the sweet spot

I'm not familiar with black powder but I'm assuming the larger lube groove is a requirement due to the black powder
Then IF we Powder coat or HiTek coat the boolit we could use the 43-230G with either powder?

[Nobade]

Only BP compatible lube with BP. You have to keep that fouling moist or it will build up and cause difficulty.

[BobInAus]

Ok gents thanks again for the replies, now I have information overload. Outpost75, I was looking at John Kort's Accurate 43-215C for both smokeless and black powder. Is the bevel base on 43-230EB the only difference with the 43-215C taking into account the original nose profile of the 43-215C?
Regrds

Bob

[CamoWhamo]

Hi Bob,

I have an Accurate 43-220c mould which has the same nose profile.
Mine is set for .432 as my bore is .431. The rounds chamber and feed fine in my 92. They are accurate too.
The only thing i don't like is that the nose is smaller than the driving bands which makes getting a good crimp a bit of a pain, but it is achievable.

I'm in Sydney. I can send you a few to try out if you like.

My mold might be for sale soon. I have a couple of molds of my own design coming that i hope will work well.


Ok gents thanks again for the replies, now I have information overload. Outpost75, I was looking at John Kort's Accurate 43-215C for both smokeless and black powder. Is the bevel base on 43-230EB the only difference with the 43-215C taking into account the original nose profile of the 43-215C?
Regrds

Bob

[BobInAus]

CamoWhamo,
Thanks for that, how do we go about address etc.

Bob

[BobInAus]

Outpost75,
Thank you for that. The information on this site has been outstanding. I should have been in these forums years ago. How do I go about calculating the quantities of tin - lead,(1-20, 1-50 etc.) to end up with the particular hardness? I have only ever used the aughts and crosses profile to work out hardness but with that I sometimes use wheel weights and that has a Antimony content and tin - lead alloys dont. To get 1-20 I had previously divided 1 by 4 then the 20 by 4 and end up with .25kg tin to 4kg lead but someone said that was incorrect as there was special calculation to end up with the correct quantities but he said he couldn't remember what it was.
Regards
Bob.

[Outpost75]

Ok gents thanks again for the replies, now I have information overload. Outpost75, I was looking at John Kort's Accurate 43-215C for both smokeless and black powder. Is the bevel base on 43-230EB the only difference with the 43-215C taking into account the original nose profile of the 43-215C?
Regrds

Bob

Yes, I wanted a bit more bullet weight to shoot to the sights of a fixed sight revolver I use for which I have another cylinder in .44 Magnum, and the difference between a 240-grain .44 Magnum and a 200- or 215-grain .44-40 was too much, but just adding the bevel base to John's 43-215C gave me a 230 which worked well with either black or smokeless, was accurate in both of my rifles, as well as revolvers, and also gave astounding penetration on game.

The 43-230G is a double-crimp groove design which can be seated out in the rear crimp groove to increase powder capacity in the .44 Special, or in the front crimp groove to maintain standard overall length for magazine feeding in the Marlin 1894S or Winchester 92. It works OK for black powder use in revolvers, but for rifle use with barrels longer than 20" the 43-230EB has more lube capacity to prevent foul-out if you intend to fire more than one tube full.

[Outpost75]

Outpost75,
Thank you for that. The information on this site has been outstanding. I should have been in these forums years ago. How do I go about calculating the quantities of tin - lead,(1-20, 1-50 etc.) to end up with the particular hardness? I have only ever used the aughts and crosses profile to work out hardness but with that I sometimes use wheel weights and that has a Antimony content and tin - lead alloys dont. To get 1-20 I had previously divided 1 by 4 then the 20 by 4 and end up with .25kg tin to 4kg lead but someone said that was incorrect as there was special calculation to end up with the correct quantities but he said he couldn't remember what it was.
Regards
Bob.

I don't get wrapped around the axle agonizing about exact alloy composition. If you can gouge the bullet with your thumbnail it isn't harder than about 10 BHN and will work well as a hunting bullet. If your thumbnail simply skates across it leaving a light mark, it is harder than 12 BHN and better suited for punching paper.

[CamoWhamo]

CamoWhamo,
Thanks for that, how do we go about address etc.

Bob

Hi Bob, I sent you a private message a couple of days ago.

Click on your username in the top right corner and select Inbox from the menu that drops down from there.
You should see my message.

[BobInAus]

Outpost75

Just in case you go back over your older threads, and with regard to your bullet 43-230EB. Being a heaver bullet that John's 43-215C does this make the bullet any longer (having consideration to the feeding and lifter of the 1873) - from case mouth to nose. I know you said you just added a bevel base to the 43-215C but when I look at the Accurate drawings, the 43-230EB seems to be a bit longer. Can you shed some light on this please as I'm going to order a couple of moulds from Accurate. I need a heaver bullet for some silhouette matches we have over here and was looking at the 43-245C. Do you think this weight is beyond the capabilities of the 44 WCF in the 1873.
Regards

Bob.

[Outpost75]

230EB is a wee bit longer, but feeds in original 1873s and fits the cylinder of Colt SAs