Slugging the barrel on an 1873 44WCF.

[BobInAus]

Good evening gents,

I slugged the barrel on my '73 tonight and measurements of the lead slug indicate a groove depth of .420.5" and the lands measure .429.5". Can anyone tell me if these measurements are similar to others and appear to be the average or are they way out there.
Any info would be appreciated.
Bob.

[smokeywolf]

Bob, if this is an original and not a replica, I'd say you've got yourself a very sweet barrel. Mine is .4312 across the lands and some original '73 Winchesters in 44-40 slug as big as .433.

[BobInAus]

Smokeywolf,
Yes it's a real one made in 1892. I had been using a winchester mould but it drops the bullet at .425. I am going to look at an accurate mould to give me a dia of .430. I'm thinking that will lift the accuracy.
Thanks for the reply.
Bob

[35 Whelen]

Accurate makes really good moulds and have a litany of designs in .44 caliber.

For my .44-40's I bought an NOE-

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Cast%20bullets/N_O_E__Bullet_Moulds_432_200Gr__RF_zpsocricpna.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Cast%20bullets/N_O_E__Bullet_Moulds_432_200Gr__RF_zpsocricpna.jpg .html)

432-200-RF (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=37_209)


It's a great design because it has lots of lube capacity and mine drop at close to 220 grs.

Hope you enjoy that Winchester.

35W

[indian joe]

Smokeywolf,
Yes it's a real one made in 1892. I had been using a winchester mould but it drops the bullet at .425. I am going to look at an accurate mould to give me a dia of .430. I'm thinking that will lift the accuracy.
Thanks for the reply.
Bob

Bob
dont get sucked into heavier boolits in an original - sometimes they dont stabilise properly at distance - at least test an try before ya buy .

[35 Whelen]

Bob
dont get sucked into heavier boolits in an original - sometimes they dont stabilise properly at distance - at least test an try before ya buy .

I've been shooting the 220 gr. bullet I mentioned in my 1866 Uberti Sporting Rifle in 44-40. Granted I've only shot out as far as 300 yds., but accuracy was about what one would expect from a stubby little bullet like that, with a left to right crosswind and the tiny rear sight. The small notch in the rear sight makes it a bit difficult and normally manifests its shortcomings by causing a little vertical dispersion in the groups-

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/300%20yds.%20with%20Swiss%203f_zpszd5cmyhv.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/300%20yds.%20with%20Swiss%203f_zpszd5cmyhv.jpg.htm l)

I've mostly fired it at 200 yds and really was quite pleased with the accuracy as it is plenty sufficient for hogs and deer, though I doubt I'd ever take a shot that far!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/200%20yds.%20descr_zpsqsfdtwud.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/200%20yds.%20descr_zpsqsfdtwud.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/Uberti1866200ydlabeled7_zps85e4c5d9.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/Uberti1866200ydlabeled7_zps85e4c5d9.jpg.html)

I had never bothered to check the twist in my Uberti, assuming it was probably a 1-in-20", but did so last night and found it's actually a 1-in-38", probably the same as the original Winchesters.

So there you are!

35W

[indian joe]

I've been shooting the 220 gr. bullet I mentioned in my 1866 Uberti Sporting Rifle in 44-40. Granted I've only shot out as far as 300 yds., but accuracy was about what one would expect from a stubby little bullet like that, with a left to right crosswind and the tiny rear sight. The small notch in the rear sight makes it a bit difficult and normally manifests its shortcomings by causing a little vertical dispersion in the groups-

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/300%20yds.%20with%20Swiss%203f_zpszd5cmyhv.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/300%20yds.%20with%20Swiss%203f_zpszd5cmyhv.jpg.htm l)

I've mostly fired it at 200 yds and really was quite pleased with the accuracy as it is plenty sufficient for hogs and deer, though I doubt I'd ever take a shot that far!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/200%20yds.%20descr_zpsqsfdtwud.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/200%20yds.%20descr_zpsqsfdtwud.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/Uberti1866200ydlabeled7_zps85e4c5d9.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1866%20Uberti%20Sporting%20Rifle/Uberti1866200ydlabeled7_zps85e4c5d9.jpg.html)

I had never bothered to check the twist in my Uberti, assuming it was probably a 1-in-20", but did so last night and found it's actually a 1-in-38", probably the same as the original Winchesters.

So there you are!

35W

Dont know what happened me but a very same looking Uberti brought me undone big time at a 200yard competition years ago, 225 grain CBE boolits keyholed a group about two foot around - went home disgusted and loaded some 200 grain RCBS that shot nice at the same distance -- be interested in comparing powder charges ?

[35 Whelen]

Dont know what happened me but a very same looking Uberti brought me undone big time at a 200yard competition years ago, 225 grain CBE boolits keyholed a group about two foot around - went home disgusted and loaded some 200 grain RCBS that shot nice at the same distance -- be interested in comparing powder charges ?

Be glad to share.

I've tested a dozen or so different loads in this rifle and settled on three- 9.5 grs. of Unique, 9.5 grs. of Herco and 2.2 cc of Swiss 3Fg. All give a little over 1300 fPS MV and all are equally accurate. Re-7 is another one that will safely get the velocities up there (23.5 grs. yielded 1330 fps), but I never really did more than just chronograph it. Anyhow, I regulated the ladder sights with those three loads out to 300 so it's just a matter of flipping the sight up for 200 and 300 yds although I have to slide it a little over the 300 yd setting for 300 yds.
What was the MV of your load? Maybe your velocity was a little too slow to stabilize the bullet in the slow twist barrel.....?

35W

[indian joe]

Be glad to share.

I've tested a dozen or so different loads in this rifle and settled on three- 9.5 grs. of Unique, 9.5 grs. of Herco and 2.2 cc of Swiss 3Fg. All give a little over 1300 fPS MV and all are equally accurate. Re-7 is another one that will safely get the velocities up there (23.5 grs. yielded 1330 fps), but I never really did more than just chronograph it. Anyhow, I regulated the ladder sights with those three loads out to 300 so it's just a matter of flipping the sight up for 200 and 300 yds although I have to slide it a little over the 300 yd setting for 300 yds.
What was the MV of your load? Maybe your velocity was a little too slow to stabilize the bullet in the slow twist barrel.....?

35W

Yeah that was why I asked - I believe the 225 grain boolit chronoed around 1150FPS and the 20 grainer about 1230FPS - its several years ago and I am loading a bit more compression in the 44/40 now so maybe could get 1200 with Goex ---1300? not with that heavier boolit - its not an issue - the 200grain shoots fine - but a lot of Aussies are shooting Wano powder (Schutzen?) and that would/could be a very negative experience with anything over 200 grain boolit. Test it first I think !

[35 Whelen]

I had some GOEX that I tested, 2F in metal cans. I didn't mention it because it was filthy and velocities, if memory serves, we're a good 200 fps below what I got with Swiss 3F, which also burned infinitely cleaner. I actually managed to cram 2.5cc of the Swiss under that same 220 gr. bullet and got almost exactly 1400 fps, but didn't really see the need to run them that fast.

35W

[indian joe]

I had some GOEX that I tested, 2F in metal cans. I didn't mention it because it was filthy and velocities, if memory serves, we're a good 200 fps below what I got with Swiss 3F, which also burned infinitely cleaner. I actually managed to cram 2.5cc of the Swiss under that same 220 gr. bullet and got almost exactly 1400 fps, but didn't really see the need to run them that fast.

35W

My Goex was old - middle 1990's - before the Moosic plant blew up and was 5FA (about 5 to 7% faster then FFFg of the same vintage - runs about 100 less than Swiss I think - That old GOEX was pretty good powder - we started seeing Swiss here about ten years ago but the price of it is ridiculous by comparison to stateside.

[BobInAus]

35 Whelen, Indian Joe, that shooting is so impressive. Thank yous for the replies, some real good reading and food for thought. I have only been using the 200gr Winchester mould up until now, but after reading the entry's by the late John Kort, I was looking at the Accurate 43-215C and his RL 7 loads. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Rergards

Bob.

[indian joe]

35 Whelen, Indian Joe, that shooting is so impressive. Thank yous for the replies, some real good reading and food for thought. I have only been using the 200gr Winchester mould up until now, but after reading the entry's by the late John Kort, I was looking at the Accurate 43-215C and his RL 7 loads. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Rergards

Bob.

Bob
I like RE7 as a powder - its clean - used it years ago for top end loads in a 375 Big Bore 94 - because of that I have been suspicious of the idea of full case loads in 44/40 despite all the talk advocating it as safe - we all got our own ideas about stuff and with age they kinda get solidified (ossified is that the right word?) any hoooow I did use RE7 ages back for a plinker load in a brass Uberti 44/40, 16 grains I wrote on the wall, have also used it in 32/20, ....I use black most of the time now and if fouling gets me then a duplex load with 3 to 5 grains 4227 on the primer will clean things up. I am shooting a RCBS cowboy boolit in my 38/40 with blackpowder. It has plenty of lube and can shoot a long string without fouling, they also make a 44/40 version of it - cost ya $200 out here tho through a dealer - proly do better mail order from Accurate ?

[CamoWhamo]

...........cost ya $200 out here tho through a dealer - proly do better mail order from Accurate ?


I'm guessing you're in Aus like me, where all this stuff is ridiculously expensive and out of stock most of the time.

I order from Accurate all the time. It takes him 3 weeks to make the moulds to order. A typical order for a single mould with postage to Aus might cost around US$100 - $120. Still cheaper than local prices for RCBS, Lyman & Saeco moulds.
You can often fit several moulds in the order for the same or slightly more postage so the cost per mould can be brought down somewhat.
NOE is also good. They only sell what's in stock. Ship them out almost immediately and from experience they charge a little bit more for international shipping.
Delivery times for both one they are in the mail is approx 7 days.
Accurate and NOE moulds can both use the Lee handles which are cheaper. AU$30 vs $90 for the Name brands. So you can save a bit there too.