Best way to clean TC New Englander

[megasupermagnum]

I got a 54 caliber TC new englander, and it seems to shoot quite well. I am trying to figure out the best way to clean it. I never felt good about just pumping water through. It's ok for just a casual cleaning, but for 100% reliability I like things spotless. The nipple comes out, but there doesn't appear to be any other way to clean the channel which appears to just run through the breech plug and I assume comes out dead center into the barrel. I also assume the breech plug does not come out, at least not as something I want to regularly clean. I tried fishing a pipe cleaner through, but it didn't seem to do the job. I had thought to try and hang the barrel, and rest the breech end in the ultra sonic cleaner. I have no doubts that would be the cats meow, although I'm looking for something a little more traditional. Any ideas?

[triggerhappy243]

If the barrel can be removed from the stock, put the breech end in a pot of boiling hot water squirt some dawn dish liquid in the barrel and scrub the beegeeses out of it. Then with the jag on the cleaning rod, pump the rod in and out with a patch on the jag, scrubbing aggressively. Rinse with hot water in the same fashion. Dry cotton flannel patches to dry the bore out while the barrel is still burning hot. Use the bore preservative of your choice. Sorry bout the caps, key is stuck.

[megasupermagnum]

Yes, but how do you scrub the channel out? Soapy water does ok, but i can still see built up gunk. I can only imagine the areas you cant see.

[triggerhappy243]

T/C PUT OUT A SPECIAL SCRAPER THAT FIT THE PATENT BREECH. IF YOU PUMP THE CLEANING ROD HARD ENOUGH TURBULENCE WITH THE HOT WATER FLUSHING IN AND OUT REALLY DOES A GOOD JOB OF FLUSHING THE FLASH CHANNEL OUT. i BEEN DOING THIS FOR 40 YEARS.

[indian joe]

Yes, but how do you scrub the channel out? Soapy water does ok, but i can still see built up gunk. I can only imagine the areas you cant see.

Jeez !! you like to make things hard -- are you shooting proper black powder - if yes - just pull the nipple - put its butt in a bucket of water and pump it with a patch on the ramrod. Dont take out the breech plug ever!
Make sure you have a tapered muzzle protector on the ramrod.
Cold water will do it - dont need to use hot for blackpowder residue - but need plenty to neutralise the salts and flush out the crud.

[Good Cheer]

If you use a dish detergent to help remove the tough lube-powder mixed residues in the ignition pathways it's best to follow with lots and lots of clean water due to surfactants in the soaps.

If shooting a substitute powder be double extra thorough to avoid damage from the acid residues. Make Felix Unger look like a slob slacker.

[hc18flyer]

For 30 years now I have used the natural lubes(bore butter & others), hot water to clean barrel. The heat will dry it out, standing muzzle down, then a couple of lube patches, akin to seasoning a cast iron fry pan. My New Englander and Great Plains rifles will allow a pipe cleaner down thru the flash channel. I do carefully clean my nipples too. If I do my part cleaning and fire a couple of caps, my rifles work GREAT!
hc18flyer

[bob208]

I started shooting muzzleloaders in 85. all I have ever used was the hot water method in post number 2. never had a problem . I own 10 rifles and 10 pistols all cleaned that way. never a need to use a brush. the only time I ever need a breach scraper is when shooting the flat breach rifles the 1808 h-f and the 1841 Mississippi.

don't try to reinvent the wheel or over think a simple process.

[Jeff Michel]

I use the method Indian Joe suggested, I do use real hot water and liquid soap. After the water coming out of the nipple hole is clear, I prop it up in a corner, muzzle down and when dry but still warm, run a patch coated with Bore Butter and it's done. Never found a speck of rust in any of my black powder guns.

[pworley1]

Try using a pipe cleaner for the flash channel.

[725]

All the above works fine. I also, from time to time, get a small soup can, or the like, add Windex, and pump it in and out through the nipple, via a tight patch on the cleaning rod. Pretty good at removing gunk. Then I remove the nipple, clean it with a pipe cleaner and then turn the pipe cleaner into the bolster channel. Work it back and forth. At this point, I drench the barrel and other parts with PB Blaster penetrating oil and work that through every possible nook & cranny. The lock gets the whole treatment, too. I like to get penetrating oil down into the threads of the breach plug; a place no cleaning jig could ever get to and let the oil do it's thing to. I let the penetrating oil do it's thing for a time. Dry it out and reassemble. I do this on my ML's and the "camp guns" I use to teach with. I shoot those camp guns twice a week all summer in a ML'ing program. They get hundreds of rounds down range and have been going strong for almost 20 years. Not bad for CVA youth and mountain stalker side hammers.

Do whatever it takes to make 'em clean.

[mooman76]

Use a smaller brush, like 32 cal or so to clean the patient breech area. I use pipe cleaners and Q-tips for under the nipple.

[megasupermagnum]

All the above works fine. I also, from time to time, get a small soup can, or the like, add Windex, and pump it in and out through the nipple, via a tight patch on the cleaning rod. Pretty good at removing gunk. Then I remove the nipple, clean it with a pipe cleaner and then turn the pipe cleaner into the bolster channel. Work it back and forth. At this point, I drench the barrel and other parts with PB Blaster penetrating oil and work that through every possible nook & cranny. The lock gets the whole treatment, too. I like to get penetrating oil down into the threads of the breach plug; a place no cleaning jig could ever get to and let the oil do it's thing to. I let the penetrating oil do it's thing for a time. Dry it out and reassemble. I do this on my ML's and the "camp guns" I use to teach with. I shoot those camp guns twice a week all summer in a ML'ing program. They get hundreds of rounds down range and have been going strong for almost 20 years. Not bad for CVA youth and mountain stalker side hammers.

Do whatever it takes to make 'em clean.

Thanks, I don't have window cleaner, but I put my barrel in a can of PB blaster. I worked it in and out a few times, and it has now been sitting for a few hours. The liquid has turned black, and seems to really be working. I took the lock off, and there was all kinds of crud in there. I don't know how it gets there, but I'll be sure and clean that every time in the future.

I looked up a breech plug scraper, that should really do the trick! It looks like track of the wolf sells them, I need to get out there anyway. I did find some bigger/thicker pipe cleaners, and will give them a try, the small ones go through, they just don't scrub much.

I've only shot 15 rounds so far, and all with FFg black powder. I don't know what the previous owner(s) used.

There is a huge difference between 99% reliable, and 100% reliable when it's snowing, 2 degrees, 8 hours into the hunt.

[Walks]

Try the scrubbing pipe cleaners. I clean at the Range. Use the Hydrogen peroxide, Isopropyl 91%alcohol, MURPHY'S OIL SOAP. 1/3 of each. 25yrs no rust, all clean and CLEAN

[megasupermagnum]

Try the scrubbing pipe cleaners. I clean at the Range. Use the Hydrogen peroxide, Isopropyl 91%alcohol, MURPHY'S OIL SOAP. 1/3 of each. 25yrs no rust, all clean and CLEAN

Does the hydrogen peroxide have to be anything special, or will any pharmacy brand work?

[country gent]

Ballistol and water mixed 10-1. Remove nipple and vent screw if it has one. let soak for awhile and then work thru barrel with patched jag pumping it in and out. You want pressure in both directions so don't allow rod to come out of barrel here. A little scrubbing with a pope cleaner may be needed. If it has a vent screw under the nipple a drill bit the same size as the hole can be used as a scrapper to remove stubborn crud.

I use windex with vinegar as a wiping soulution on BPCR rifles. Its great for a quick cleaning removing powder lube fouling. Hot soapy water works well also. Cold water does about as good it just dosnt evaporate as fast. Ballistol and water works very well and has been a go to for a lot of shooters for years. Finding a drill bit that just fits the passage and use it by hand turning between thumb and finger as a scrapper removes a lot of build ups.

You want the water there to remove dissolve the natural salts from the powder fouling, like the old corrosive ammo a water cleaning removed it best. SOapy water removes these salts quickly and easily.

[bob208]

don't use an oil base to clean. use water or a water base water dissolves b-p fouling . oil makes it lump and get hard.

[OverMax]

Unless a barrel is bedded. Removing from its stock for any reason is likely to cause or lesson down range accuracy.

[megasupermagnum]

Unless a barrel is bedded. Removing from its stock for any reason is likely to cause or lesson down range accuracy.

These don't fit together tight enough for any of that to matter. I always take my guns apart as much as is reasonable to clean. I've never noticed any lack of accuracy, and all my guns hold their zero.

After the soak in PB blaster a ton of junk came out, and with a little scrubbing I feel I got it as good as a person can. Using a light, the only deposits i can see are very minor on the breech end. That's where the breech plug scraper should come into play.

I think from now on I will do the usual cleaning with water, followed by a soak in cleaner (I'll try the murphy's oil next time), and with a little scrubbing with a pipe cleaner and breech scraper, I would finish with a oil patch down the bore and reassemble. Or maybe it would be best to do the cleaner/scubbing first, and then the traditional water method?
It's probably not needed to go this thorough every time, but certainly before hunting.

[Walks]

I wonder if any one still makes the the small 2 oz bottle with the cap/tube that fits over the nipple of your front loader ?
You'd fill the bottle with solvent or whatever you used, push a wet patch back & forth on the bore. Hydraulic action would pump solvent in & out. I then changed to a scraper on the cleaning rod and back to little bottle with solvent. Clean in 5 minutes.

[arcticap]

Sometimes material can come off of thick pipe cleaners so one must be careful to not clog the flash channel that way.

I still use them anyway with some guns, but I'll also use bare copper wire along with some patch material.

[megasupermagnum]

I am always sure to hit it with the air gun to dry things out, that should clear any other little bits. I wouldn't have air if I was field cleaning, but I wouldn't use pipe cleaners either. I'm always afraid to loose patches down in the gun. Again, air usually blows them out, but I had one heck of a time once trying to fish one out. Not fun.

[Drm50]

The reason I've never got the Black Powder bug. There is only one way sure, water and soap. I like
boiling water, it dryers fast. Put breech end in bucket and pump it until water comes out clear. Make sure there is no water hiding under places like tenon on TC. I have 2 T/C Hawkens bought
when they were first out. Only bought for ML deer season. At the end of season I take them clear
apart. Lock, Stock and barrel. Clean it until you can eat of it, then oil bore and hope you shoot
your deer in gun season next year. That way you don't have to dirty a Muzzel loader.

I always freaked out about cleaning guns with water until I went in service. We had to take rifles
into shower with us. They had cleaning station set up in the Head and water was so hot you could
watch it evaporate off rifle.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I have had a new englander since early 90s so has my father and a uncle , have shot black powder since the mid 70s hot water soap rinse with hot run dry patches down then oily patches simple same all the time no rust no problems

[indian joe]

I am always sure to hit it with the air gun to dry things out, that should clear any other little bits. I wouldn't have air if I was field cleaning, but I wouldn't use pipe cleaners either. I'm always afraid to loose patches down in the gun. Again, air usually blows them out, but I had one heck of a time once trying to fish one out. Not fun.

Get a decent jag ya wont lose patches - just in case go in Cabellas or someplace and buy a patch screw fitting that fits yr ramrod thread - just a few bucks .

[indian joe]

The reason I've never got the Black Powder bug. There is only one way sure, water and soap. I like
boiling water, it dryers fast. Put breech end in bucket and pump it until water comes out clear. Make sure there is no water hiding under places like tenon on TC. I have 2 T/C Hawkens bought
when they were first out. Only bought for ML deer season. At the end of season I take them clear
apart. Lock, Stock and barrel. Clean it until you can eat of it, then oil bore and hope you shoot
your deer in gun season next year. That way you don't have to dirty a Muzzel loader.

I always freaked out about cleaning guns with water until I went in service. We had to take rifles
into shower with us. They had cleaning station set up in the Head and water was so hot you could
watch it evaporate off rifle.

ohhhhh man !!! it aint that hard -----really !!!! cleaning one of these is easy

[megasupermagnum]

It's not that hard, but it's not that fun. Plus the whole thing with hunting. You can either leave it loaded and cross your fingers, shoot it and swab your bore like normal and hope rust doesn't become a problem, or shoot it and clean it, which you have to sight in to an oiled bore. I generally shoot and swab, but I can not remember muzzle loader hunting more than 3 days in a row before.

[725]

megasupermagnm -- I use Windex first because it is water based. Whatever you use, you HAVE to use a water based / plain water to first clean the gun. It breaks down & neutralizes the corrosive elements. Nothing else will do. First clean with something water and follow up with your cleaners / oils etc. A great cleaning with anything else won't do.

725

[waksupi]

The nipple should be removed no more than once a year for inspection and relubrication. Repeatedly removing it wears the threads, and will eventually cause dangerous failure.
Plain old luke warm water is all you need to clean with. Hot water causes flash rusting, and will actually set fouling a bit harder, taking more time to clean. Dry barrel with pieces of paper towel, then use a good oil in the bore.

[Edward]

If the barrel can be removed from the stock, put the breech end in a pot of boiling hot water squirt some dawn dish liquid in the barrel and scrub the beegeeses out of it. Then with the jag on the cleaning rod, pump the rod in and out with a patch on the jag, scrubbing aggressively. Rinse with hot water in the same fashion. Dry cotton flannel patches to dry the bore out while the barrel is still burning hot. Use the bore preservative of your choice. Sorry bout the caps, key is stuck. Good advise right up to hot water(NOT) you get flash rust every time ,cold works just fine ! It"s really not complicated /Ed

[rfd]

what Ed said, NO hot water.

i'll go a step further - tepid water only and NO soap or other cr@p. there is no need to add chemicals of any kind other than H2O down the tube. plug the ignition hole and let the water stand in the bbl.

cleanup will always be easier/easiest if you do some aforethought thinking and prepping. after shooting at the range or afield, and ya know it'll be some time before proper cleaning can be accomplished, clear the chamber (fire the load or pull it) and run a patch down the tube that's sloppy wet with some water mixed with water soluble oil ("moose milk" = water and some ballistol or NAPA). i leave the rod and wet patch in the barrel. i keep a 1:6 mix of ballistol:water in a small spray bottle and besides using it to wet the patch i spritz the lock and it's related ignition device (flint or percussion). this will keep the bp residue soft in those components 'til yer back at the ranch and can do a proper cleaning ASAP. this is all a good routine to get into and saves a heckuva lotta future issues and work. has done so for me for well over 5 decades. ymmv.

[indian joe]

Well !! Thats four of us in a row agree on the flash rusting from hot water - been there done that years ago and didnt like it at all. Room temperature water in Aus is probably "tepid" for you fellers that live where it gets cold. Something else going on here too I reckon (cant prove it tho) with cold, no detergent cleaning I think we get a certtain amount of seasoning of the bore from the residue of oils / grease in our lube - hot water and /or detergent strips all that out and we back to bare unseasoned metal that needs more protection.
I wanna disagree with Waksupi on wearing the threads out from removing the nipple - we both been doin this a long time - I dont reckon you will wear the threads out BUT if you in the habit (most blokes are) of screwing it down tight each time then maybe over time you stretch the threads so they cause a problem - two fingers on the nipple wrench when doing it up is plenty - finger and thumb is enough .

While we on the subject of nipples I'll digress for a bit - we had a walker colt here (sons repro gun) it had had the wrong nipples fitted - or had been tapped out to wrong size - either way a set of 12x28 nipples were where 1/4x 28 should have fitted - there was erosion most of the way along the threads of the nipples - they were screwed in tight but clearance in the threads - it takes a keen eye or good measuring gear to spot the difference --same thing can get you with 32 thread stuff (this is a special doozie for Aussies) there is 10x32 unc , 3/16th whitworth, and M5x 0.8, all in the same space and a tad bit different diameters - common confusion with cleaning gear is 10x32 and 8x32 - more than one cleaning brush stuck down a muzzle loader because of that!!!

[rfd]

*IF* there is a need to remove threaded barrel components, it's best to have first properly lubed component threads. actually, grease is the way to go, not an oil lube. building a gun from scratch or kit, or acquiring a new pre-built gun, i make sure that the breech, touch hole or bolster & nipple, lock and trigger screws, etc, are greased with "nikal" - trade name for an extreme high temp grease that's sparingly applied. using that goop makes component removal - specially those that have been compromised with bp residue, and they ALL will get compromised sooner than later - and all become an easy removal.

[indian joe]

*IF* there is a need to remove threaded barrel components, it's best to have first properly lubed component threads. actually, grease is the way to go, not an oil lube. building a gun from scratch or kit, or acquiring a new pre-built gun, i make sure that the breech, touch hole or bolster & nipple, lock and trigger screws, etc, are greased with "nikal" - trade name for an extreme high temp grease that's sparingly applied. using that goop makes component removal - specially those that have been compromised with bp residue, and they ALL will get compromised sooner than later - and all become an easy removal.

Lil dab of never seize works for me

[rfd]

it's all good, IJ! 225688

[OverMax]

Cleaning a barrel and stock exterior.
Just a suggestion.
Smell of products used for the cleaning & lubrication purpose is a important factor to be aware of. Especially if intending to take that firearm afield {big game} hunting. A nasty smelling firearm toted is little different than a nasty smelling hunter.
The only purpose I found for Mrs. Murphy soap other than for a laundry room purpose . ~~~none!
I myself prefer the use of unscented Dawn Detergent soap for my barrels cleaning. Stock & as a exterior bluing conditioner. Tracks: Trapper's Mink Oil patching grease for that purpose.

As for plunging water temperature. Hotter the better. A heated barrel drys out quicker with less dry swabbing being required. And since I used a unscented patch lube for my barrels bore lubricator. My experience. A heated barrel helps to disperse my bore lube more evenly. How ever I do respect everyone's way of doing to a point. i.e. The use of smokeless powder removers is wrong for a bore fouled from Black Powder use.

[indian joe]

Cleaning a barrel and stock exterior.
Just a suggestion.
Smell of products used for the cleaning & lubrication purpose is a important factor to be aware of. Especially if intending to take that firearm afield {big game} hunting. A nasty smelling firearm toted is little different than a nasty smelling hunter.
The only purpose I found for Mrs. Murphy soap other than for a laundry room purpose . ~~~none!
I myself prefer the use of unscented Dawn Detergent soap for my barrels cleaning. Stock & as a exterior bluing conditioner. Tracks: Trapper's Mink Oil patching grease for that purpose.

As for plunging water temperature. Hotter the better. A heated barrel drys out quicker with less dry swabbing being required. And since I used a unscented patch lube for my barrels bore lubricator. My experience. A heated barrel helps to disperse my bore lube more evenly. How ever I do respect everyone's way of doing to a point. i.e. The use of smokeless powder removers is wrong for a bore fouled from Black Powder use.

Two differences of opinion here (and opinion is all it is either way)
1)Just curious what part of black powder residue you need dishwash for ? powder residue comes away fine with water in my guns
2) hot water - been there done it - by time I get a dry patch on the jag and down bore it comes out red with flash rust. Dont like that - maybe different barrel steels behave different but I am happy to trade the slower dry out for no rust .

[Jeff Michel]

I wonder what I'm doing different? In all my years of shooting blackpowder and cleaning with hot water, I have never had the slightest bit of rusting. I am aware that steel, heated will attract moisture and rust is on it's way. Perhaps it has something to do with mass, my machine tools will rust before my very eyes if the dehumidifier poops out. I'm pretty pathological about my muzzleloaders too. I guess I'm making this into a conundrum.

[rfd]

225723

[indian joe]

I wonder what I'm doing different? In all my years of shooting blackpowder and cleaning with hot water, I have never had the slightest bit of rusting. I am aware that steel, heated will attract moisture and rust is on it's way. Perhaps it has something to do with mass, my machine tools will rust before my very eyes if the dehumidifier poops out. I'm pretty pathological about my muzzleloaders too. I guess I'm making this into a conundrum.

What do you use for lube ? maybe thats the difference ? I shoot moose milk in my mloaders and thats where I got the red patches - at home I blow em out with the air compressor to dry before I oil em and again to clear the oil before I shoot - just clean everything with room temperature water now - the cartridge guns are so easy its funny to read guys dodging blackpowder because of the cleaning hassle - ahh I only ever shot proper blackpowder too - think those subs take a lot more effort to clean.

[indian joe]

225723

he aint dead mate - just a mule bein a mule and havin a rest - turn ya back a minute and he'll be off and runnin tother direction.

[rfd]

he aint dead mate - just a mule bein a mule and havin a rest - turn ya back a minute and he'll be off and runnin tother direction.

225725

[megasupermagnum]

The nipple should be removed no more than once a year for inspection and relubrication. Repeatedly removing it wears the threads, and will eventually cause dangerous failure.
Plain old luke warm water is all you need to clean with. Hot water causes flash rusting, and will actually set fouling a bit harder, taking more time to clean. Dry barrel with pieces of paper towel, then use a good oil in the bore.

I'm sure you have been at this for decades, but I'm not leaving a nipple in for a year or more. That's just asking for trouble. There's probably better, but I always used copper anti-seize, and it seems to work fine.

That is intriguing about using hot water. I've always used relatively hot water, and always get an orange patch or two, but figured it was just fouling. I'll try some room temp water next time.

I was talking to somebody who recommended a pipe cleaner for an ar-15 gas tube. It's dense cotton like a bore mop, and has scrubbing bristles in it. I think that will be the ticket.

[Maven]

mega...., waksupi has a point about not removing nipples. I.e, that way they can't be lost, cross-threaded or stripped. However, I have several cap lock rifles + 1 cap & ball revolver and I always remove the nipples when cleaning them. Btw, I also use white lithium grease when replacing them and most certainly am careful not to cross thread or over tighten them (been doing this since 1970 with nary a problem).

[mooman76]

I don't always remove the nipple but do like every s
2nd or 3rd time of use. Leave it too long and you may have trouble getting it out. There are little tiny brushes used for cleaning tiny things like air spray and electric paint guns. They aren't bad to have for them small areas to clean. Harbor Freight has them for cheap.

[OverMax]

I'm kind'a non-conventional when it comes to my side-locks bore cleaning.
Found plunging with the nipple removed each & every time initiates better water cleansing through-out the barrels bore and its firing channel. Quicker the water movement: Quicker its debris and fouling is flushed away.

Seldom do I clean my used nipples. Have a: Ultra Sonic Parts Cleaner in the shop for that purpose.

Typically done: Barrel flush. A quick nipple change out with a prior cleaned Knight Hot Shot my Thompson is good to go.

Such nipple change only requires a tiny bit of Anti-Seize grease freshly applied to its threads before its screwing in place. The anti-seize applied is {not} for easier nipple removal. More so to protect those Snail threads from disappointing surface corrosion.