The gunsmith got my NEF 30/30

[Tom W.]

And he is turning it into a 30/30 a.i. Now to get some dies.....:bigsmyl2:

[richhodg66]

What advantage does the improved version give?

[curator]

I too have a Handi-rifle in .30-30 AI. I use the Lee collet Die to resize the neck portion of the case by placing a .125 spacer between the shell holder and the collet. Works great. Then I use the standard seating die to finish seating the boolit.

[725]

richhodg66

I don't have one, but I've heard that brass life is extended somewhat, + any performance improvement.

[Tom W.]

What advantage does the improved version give?

Dunno. I've read where they have a bit more velocity. It's mostly just something I've been wanting to do for over 10 years now.

[richhodg66]

Seems almost like the .22 K Hornet. Everybody says the main advantage is longer case life. I hope it works out for you.

[barrabruce]

Probably an opertunity to get a real throat /leade.

[RPRNY]

Extending the brass life of a 30-30 case by doing a 30-30 AI is gilding the lilly. I have cases that I have fired 15 times. With periodic neck annealing, case life is almost indefinite.

The main "benefit" of an AI is more powder capacity by taking body taper out, moving the shoulder forward and making the shoulder a sharper angle.

In the 30-30, powder capacity improves about 12.9%, about the third largest improvement. Increased powder capacity allows for a 150 grs j-bullet to increase velocity from @2300 to an alleged 2700 fps with 24" barrel - ballistics about matching 7.62x51. But, more powder space, less taper, sharper shoulder may not be good. Increased pressure in brass not known for super strength may be suboptimal.

Handi Rifles are a good candidate however because an SB2 receiver can take this additional pressure and spitzer bullets.

[Tom W.]

Probably an opportunity to get a real throat /leade.

This rifle has a "deep throat" to start with.....

[Texas by God]

I always wanted to rechamber one to 30-40 Krag. Just because.

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[RPRNY]

I always wanted to rechamber one to 30-40 Krag. Just because.

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An excellent idea. I had JES Rebore take one out to 35 Krag for me. In addition to a an original Krag, I have a Ruger #3 in 30-40 and in a strong action like that, you have the versatility of a cartridge that will deliver 308 performance and eek into 30-06 performance with 180s with j-bullets and give you that nice long neck for throwing the likes of the Lyman 311284 down range.

[barrabruce]

This rifle has a "deep throat" to start with.....

Mine does too.
I got some 38-55 long cases and necked them down so they fill the super long neck section.

Special brass for paper patching only.
I wish the brass was a little thicker thou.
I have oodles of normal brass thou.
Maybe I should get a short lever action one day and use some of it.
Ha

[richhodg66]

I always wanted to rechamber one to 30-40 Krag. Just because.

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I came real close to buying a Savage 219 that had been rechambered to .30-40 once. Call me a purist, but a single shot needs to be in a rimmed cartridge. I should have bought it.

[turtlezx]

if your shooting cast i dont see the advantage your not loading max loads??
So why would you need more powder space??

[Tom W.]

Me? I loaded cast years ago when I was using my son's dies. I have a bunch of loads in the shed, both cast and jacketed. My late hunting buddy would always get two boxes of cast from me every season and killed many deer with his rifle.
I've been wanting the rifle re-chambered for I know over ten years now, mostly just because. My Ruger #1B was re-chambered to 30-06 A.I. and I really like it a lot. The 30/30 will have a lot of lead fired down the bore to fireform the brass and as I'm old, retired and am in remission of my cancer there's no telling how much longer I have on this side of the grass.
Besides that, the fireformed brass looks cool.......

[uscra112]

Probably an opertunity to get a real throat /leade.

If the AI reamer is so configured, but you can easily rethroat a .30-30 without going to the full-monty AI. Ed Harris did an excellent article on this for the Rifleman back about 1980.

It has occurred to me time and again that, if you wanted stronger .30-30 brass, reforming .375 Winchester oughta do it. IF you can find any.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm just a "plinker" with a 30-30 - don't hung anymore and my experience with a 30-30 is limited to a Winchester 94 and a Marlin 336SC. I shot BP for 50 plus years and only got in to cartridge reloading about ten years ago - so I am by no means and "expert" on the 30-30 - and to be honest - I've never heard of the 30-30AI. So reading this has been very enlightening.

Now for a curiosity question. I slept and never got a 30-30 Handi - do have a .357. I like playing with loads, etc. and different boolits - mainly lighter loads and nothing serious. Lately, I've been thinking about getting one of the Henry single shots in 308. Anyway . . . .

Reading this had been interesting. I understand what you are saying about changing the shoulder on the 30-30 using and getting more case capacity - so I got to wondering. How does the performance of the 30-30AI - which has an increased case capacity if I understand correctly - how does the performance compare with the 398 Winchester "tat for tat". Both are .30 caliber bore - if loading the same lead bullet weight and design in both cartridges - is one have more advantages than the other? Maybe a dumb question but it was just something I was thinking about as I'm not sure how the case volume of a 30-30AI would compare with a 308 - and yes, one rimmed and one rimless I know.

Thanks. I'd love to see a photo of a 30-30 AI next to a standard 30-30 if anyone could post one to see the differences. Thanks.

Jim

[uscra112]

Case volumes as follows:

.30-30 = 44 grains (water)
.30-30 AI = 48.5
.308 = 56

The .308 is already a 60,000 psi cartridge, so you're not going to get close to it with a .30-30 AI without going way above that, into "I blew uo my gun" territory.

Personally I love the plain-Jane .30-30, since it's the second-best .30 caliber in existence for cast bullets. (First is the .30-40 Krag.) I see little advantage whatsoever in the AI, given that we have so many other options for increased powder capacity these days. The AI series was rational in a time when a man might not be able to afford another rifle, so rechambering the one he had made economic sense.

The short neck of the .308 is not cast-bullet friendly. It does have a much better throat shape, but that's easily rectified in the .30-30.

The reduced body taper of the AI allows higher pressures before you get sticky extraction in lever-guns, but that's chiefly an advantage to j-word shooters.

The increased volume help you shoot heavier cast bullets. Bigger charges of slower powders. But if that's the plan, go to the .30-40 Krag.

YMMV, but that's my take on it. I have only one "improved" cartridge in my stable and that's a K-Hornet.

[dk17hmr]

SB2 receivers come with 270 win barrels from the factory. You'll ruin 30/30 cases before you get to gun destroying loads with rifle powders.

I love AI cases and the 30/30AI would be a good one to add to the collection for when my kids start hunting.

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you uscra112 - that answers a lot of questions for someone who is still learning about rifle cartridges! Right now, all I load in bottleneck is the 30-30 and 8mm Mauser to shoot in my old 1905 Danzig GEW98 - and those are just light charges in the Mauser. I just plain like the 30-30 and always have. Used to hunt with my father-in-laws Winchester 94 - vintage early 1930s that he bought when in high school. Loved that one but he gave it to his son who promptly sold it as $$ were more important than sentiment.

I stick strictly to cast. Want another 30-30 in single shot so am still looking. I keep hoping I might run across a Handi or Henry will off it in their single shot - I think they are foolish for not offering as so many like the 30-30 but that's up to them. I've even considered one of the Uberti rolling blocks as well - we'll see.

Thanks for the lesson - greatly appreciate it.

Jim

[Tom W.]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/OldeFarte/100_0308.jpg (h<img src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/OldeFarte/100_0308.jpg?1534904144070&amp;1534904179182" alt="30-30 a.i. photo 100_0308.jpg"/>ttp://s10.photobucket.com/user/OldeFarte/media/100_0308.jpg.html)



This is not from my rifle. but one someone sent me.

[Bagdadjoe]

Accuracy normally improves..I had a 30-30AI in a Contender that was exceptionally accurate.

[Chad5005]

tom w who do you use for a gunsmith,i only live about 30 miles from phenix city

[Tom W.]

As I said earlier, I've wanted one for over 10 years. I don't want a 30/40 or something else. And I'll more than likely just be killing steel and paper, but that's my choice. I haven't been hunting in 5 or 6 years, altho I do get to the range and keep my rifles sighted in due to the fact that one of my sons may ask me to go hunting.

[Tom W.]

tom w who do you use for a gunsmith,i only live about 30 miles from phenix city

The gentleman is retired from the Russell County Sheriff Department, and now a reserve officer. He did most of their work when he was active. I met him at the RCSO range which is open to the public on the 2nd saturday morning of each month.

[Tom W.]

SB2 receivers come with 270 win barrels from the factory. You'll ruin 30/30 cases before you get to gun destroying loads with rifle powders.

I love AI cases and the 30/30AI would be a good one to add to the collection for when my kids start hunting.


I had a .270 NEF but I can't for the life of me figure out what happened to it. I do remember the brass stretched horribly and I couldn't create any handload that it liked, but it was a tackdriver w/ the cheap Green & yellow box Remington loads from Walmart.

[Chad5005]

ive got a 308 nef as my backup gun now,2years ago I hunted the whole season with it

[Tom W.]

I've got the Ruger #1b in 30-06 A.I. as my primary rifle, but a lot of times I'll just take my .44 SRH......

[geezer56]

I have had at least 50 handi rifles in my career. Down to about 8 now. The 243 and 270 are the most problematic, with the 280 close behind. The Whelens had head space issues. The 30-30 is the best caliber, 45-70 close behind.

[uscra112]

Y'know. there is the Savage 219 to consider, if you can find one. Good sturdy all-steel rifle that came in .30-30, .219 Zipper, and some other calibers, and could swap barrels with the Model 220 - the shotgun version. (My A-model came to me with .30-30 and 12 Gauge.) You want the earliest model with the striker firing mechanism. For some reason the B and C models went to a swinging hammer (still fully enclosed), and by all accounts those are not as reliable. There's one on Gunbroker now. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/783668263

The Whelen was notorious because of the skimpy shoulder. There's one cartridge which should ALWAYS be "Improved".

[oldred]

As I said earlier, I've wanted one for over 10 years. I don't want a 30/40 or something else.

I like the way you think because that's what it's all about really, honestly how many of us own certain calibers because we truly "NEED" that particular cartridge, especially when there is so much overlap these days there is almost always something else that will do the job just as well. Every single caliber I have was chosen because it was what I wanted pure and simple.

[bedbugbilly]

Tom W. - Thanks much for posting that photo - certainly makes a difference in the casing! Interesting stuff!

[cwlongshot]

Best of luck with it!! The handis make good choices for these caliber improvements.

I almsot did this too, but talked myself out of it.

But I have a K Hornet that I reamed. (Easy job to do yourself BTW)

I reamed a couple 357 Mags to Maximum, a 45 colt to 454 and even reamed two 17HMR’s to 17 Hornady hornet. THAT ONE is better done on a lathe. One was not accurate gfter the reaming and I had it made i to a 17 fire ball. Its a good shooter now.

I enjoy shooting the KHornet allot. It was always a good shooter now its better. I have t chronod any loads yet, but its a sub MOA gun with its fav load of 2400.

CW

[Texas by God]

The K Hornet Reamer would go in any .22 Hornet I ended up with. I base this on reloading for 4 different Hornets over the years. A friend reamed his Sav 24 V to the K and his brass lasted much longer.

[Tom W.]

Today was range day. My rifle showed up. I had several different loads that I wanted to try, but ended up shooting just two. The first load shot well but to the left, as the gunsmith had to remove my scope to do the rechamber job. I was just shooting @ 50 yards. The second load was one that I got from the book, and it shot terribly low, but grouped well. As I am just fire forming I'm only looking to see what groups the best. I can adjust the scope to hit where I want later. The brass formed just fine, nice sharp shoulders and a considerably shorter neck, at least as compared to the standard 30/30 case.
It didn't take me too long to get pretty worn out, as I did shoot 50 rounds from my LC9s Pro. 5 grains of True Blue with a 124 gr TC bullet is pretty snappy in that pistol.
All in all, I had an enjoyable morning.... Now to get some dies......

[Tom W.]

This Saturday I'll be going to the range again. I have a bunch of loads to fire form, both for my 30/30 A.I. and my 30-06 A.I. I don't know if I'll shoot my pistol or not. I AM taking my rests and spotting scope this time. I'll probably shoot @ 50 yards on the pistol range if there isn't a crowd. It takes a while to shoot 50 rounds from a single shot rifle.

[Char-Gar]

This won't be a popular post, but here goes anyway. Back in 1959 when I was 17 years old and blowing primers on my 300 Weatherby with lots and lots of powder, my gunsmith and mentor told me "If you want to drive a bigger nail, use a bigger hammer!."

This directly applies to trying to turn a 30-30 into a .308 or whatever.

[Goatwhiskers]

Actually the main advantage to the AI cartridges is reduced rearward thrust against the bolt face. FWIW I shoot a Martini with an Ackley barrel in 30/40AI that I built back in '69. Normally stays inside 1/2" at 100 using a 180 Hornady RN and 49gr H4831, this gives me 2200fps. Velocity is not my goal, I'm sure it would go faster, but only accuracy counts. I only recently got into casting, for this one I use a NOE-310-180-RF with a homegrown GC, didn't check velocity but accuracy is right in there where it's always been. I did reduce the charge to 44 gr. Need to work on this some more. Just to stay on topic, I snatched up a Handi in 30/30 a while back, tried the same boolit with 4895 and got great accuracy--my records are out in the shop. Only change is a floated fore-end. As far as converting to AI, not a bad idea, do it if you want to. GW

[Tom W.]

Well, I wanted it. I'm not trying to make it into a .308. I just kill paper with it. And I'm happy with it. I like my 30-06 A.I. too. It's not about a "bigger hammer" or even a need. No competition shooting, just a relaxing time at the range for a retired man. If YOU don't want one that's fine, but some slack to people that do. We shoot and handload as a hobby, not a living. If there isn't any enjoyment, why bother?

[Chad5005]

well said Tom,im not real old yet but I am retired and do what I do cause its what I want to do

[rbuck351]

Yep, I just bought an old 93 mauser in 7x57. Not because I have any need for it or really any use for it. I bought it only because I have wanted one for a long time. A 6.5x55 Sweed is on my list as well. Don't need it either but I want one. If you want a 30/30AI, you should have one, just that simple. I also want a 92 Win in 256 Win and I have picked up a 92Win a 25cal barrel and a reamer so I will have my 92 in 256W. Life is to short to do things you don't want to do. I hope your 30/30 AI shoots well. Good luck

[Tom W.]

So far I've been shooting mostly 6.6 gr. of BE for fire forming loads @ 50 yards w/ a Lee 160 RN w/ a gas check. That load is very accurate, all I have to do is move the crosshairs 2 more clicks to the left. When I get enough brass ready and my dies, I'll probably load some regular A.I. loads with 165 gr. Hornady spire points or 150 gr Jacketed GameKings.

[adcoch1]

Henry just started offering 30-30 single shot rifles this week, along with 357 mag rifles as well. Buds gun shop had them in stock...

[olafhardt]

The Handi is a very strong action. Mine came in 500 S&W mag which originally was loaded to 65,000 psi and has a very large case head even larger than the belted magnums. I also got a 30/30 barrel for it. I have converted mine to 30-31. The 30-31 is a 30-30 case loaded with 31 grains of 3031 powder under the Hornady 150 grain interlock which is their catalog number 3031.

[Texas by God]

The Handi is a very strong action. Mine came in 500 S&W mag which originally was loaded to 65,000 psi and has a very large case head even larger than the belted magnums. I also got a 30/30 barrel for it. I have converted mine to 30-31. The 30-31 is a 30-30 case loaded with 31 grains of 3031 powder under the Hornady 150 grain interlock which is their catalog number 3031.You just gave me a new gun, thanks! I have a 30-31 also!

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[Pavogrande]

I have a set of rcbs 30/30 ai dies -- older but unused -
pm me if of interest --