A 1911 and a replacement barrel

[tazman]

I recently purchased a good quality 1911(factory stock, no modifications) in a combat style setup. I prefer not to name the brand at this point. I made sure it was broken in with new hardball and reloads with FMJ. It worked like a champ with anything that looked like hardball including some Lyman 452374 boolits.
A couple of days ago I took it to the range and started using H&G 68 style SWC, Lee 230 tc(standard lube groove), and NOE 230 RN boolit in it and had nothing but trouble. They wouldn't feed properly or chamber properly about half the time. 2-4 failures per magazine. I tried some Nosler 185ngrain jacketed hollow points in it as well and had the same trouble.
Today, I loaded a new batch thinking I may have been careless but the new loads didn't work a bit better than the last time.
I remembered I had an older Colt barrel in my bag that I had DOUGGUY do his chamber magic to a while back. I took it out and tried it in the new 1911 and it fit. Slide locked up tightly and everything worked as it should as far as gun function. I was even able to use the same bushing.
I fired a few rounds of hardball through it to make sure the function was correct and it even shot to the same point of aim.
I loaded up a few magazines of the SWC boolits and some of the others I had previously had trouble with.
I ran all of them through the pistol without a single hiccup. That new barrel that DOUGGUY worked on for me was apparently the ticket to perfect function.
I spent the rest of the time I was at the range trying to find something that wouldn't feed in it and could not do so.
The different barrel took care of all the issues.
Looks like I may have another barrel for Dougguy to work on.

[Char-Gar]

A properly throated barrel and back end of the chamber cures a myriad of malfunctions. DougGuy does marvelous job at this.

[DougGuy]

Heh I'm just gonna say :bigsmyl2:

[frkelly74]

DougGuy made my RIA into a definite omnivore.

[Valley-Shooter]

You shouldn't do that.
A gunsmith needs to check for proper lug engagement on a 1911.
If it's not right, you can shear the lugs and ruin the barrel and the slide.

[Green Frog]

You shouldn't do that.
A gunsmith needs to check for proper lug engagement on a 1911.
If it's not right, you can shear the lugs and ruin the barrel and the slide.

If the factory installed barrel is currently working well with HB ammo, it would appear there is no problem with lug engagement on the outside of the barrel. How will polishing the case mouth affect this? While I agree that for perfect function, the bottom edge of the barrel must mate relatively well with the top of the feed ramp of the frame, this also does not seem to be the OP’s problem, and judicious reworking of the chamber only shouldn’t disturb this. What am I missing here? Are you talking about him switching out barrels? You do know that the standard dimensions for the 1911 design are pretty well established, right?

Froggie

[tazman]

If the factory installed barrel is currently working well with HB ammo, it would appear there is no problem with lug engagement on the outside of the barrel. How will polishing the case mouth affect this? While I agree that for perfect function, the bottom edge of the barrel must mate relatively well with the top of the feed ramp of the frame, this also does not seem to be the OP’s problem, and judicious reworking of the chamber only shouldn’t disturb this. What am I missing here? Are you talking about him switching out barrels? You do know that the standard dimensions for the 1911 design are pretty well established, right?

Froggie

In Valley-Shooter's defense, I believe he is referring to the barrel I used as a test to see if the chamber needed reworked on the original barrel. If it didn't fit properly, the damage he talked about is possible.
You are correct in saying that the 1911 design is well established. That is the reason I decided to try the barrel I had on hand.
That said, different manufacturers may use slightly different tolerances or fitting techniques.
I checked to see if things mated up well when I put the different barrel in the weapon. Everything was tight, with no slack in the lockup area. There was no vertical, lengthwise, or sideways movement when the pistol was in battery. It released as it should with no extra effort.
It was as if the barrel had been fitted for this pistol. If it had not fit correctly, I would not have fired it.
You are correct that any changes made to the chamber will have no effect of the fitting of the original barrel to the gun. That part will not be changed in any manner. Only the chamber.

[Valley-Shooter]

I'm still concerned about the drop-in barrel.
The top lugs need to be checked. Layout blue or putty. Whatever method you like. Measure them.
It sounds like the bottem is tight because you have no movement.

Barrels and slides are expensive. Not to mention the cost of the gunsmith.
Just be careful. Please.

[Char-Gar]

I'm still concerned about the drop-in barrel.
The top lugs need to be checked. Layout blue or putty. Whatever method you like. Measure them.
It sounds like the bottem is tight because you have no movement.

Barrels and slides are expensive. Not to mention the cost of the gunsmith.
Just be careful. Please.

I am quite certain, that in the history of 1911 shooting, there have been slides and barrels that are so poorly made, that what you mentioned has occurred. That said, it will take some bad out of spec parts for that to happen. In 58 years of 1911 shooting, I have switched out barrels dozens of time without any issues. I certainly and not going to make your concern a top level issue for me. I certainly am not going to run down to a gunsmith and ask him to check.

It is my opinion, this is making a minor concern, a major concern.

[tazman]

I am quite certain, that in the history of 1911 shooting, there have been slides and barrels that are so poorly made, that what you mentioned has occurred. That said, it will take some bad out of spec parts for that to happen. In 58 years of 1911 shooting, I have switched out barrels dozens of time without any issues. I certainly and not going to make your concern a top level issue for me. I certainly am not going to run down to a gunsmith and ask him to check.

It is my opinion, this is making a minor concern, a major concern.

I agree. Both the pistol and the barrel are from quality makers.
I fired about 75-100 rounds through the gun after the switch and inspected it after I got home. There were no irregularities on either the slide or the barrel. I paid particular attention to the lug area.
It is going to be moot anyway as the barrel is on it’s way to get fixed.
I appreciate the concern but there is no problem here.

[Char-Gar]

I agree. Both the pistol and the barrel are from quality makers.
I fired about 75-100 rounds through the gun after the switch and inspected it after I got home. There were no irregularities on either the slide or the barrel. I paid particular attention to the lug area.
It is going to be moot anyway as the barrel is on it’s way to get fixed.
I appreciate the concern but there is no problem here.

Yep, I am fond of Colt SS barrels, as they drop into every 1911 I have owned, Colt and otherwise. They do not produce the highest level of accuracy, compared to hand fitted match barrels, but they are heads and shoulders about barrels that come in low end 1911s. They shoot as good as I can hold.

About 13 years ago, I had a Springer Mil-Spec that produced groups of 5 inches at 25 yards. I put in a spare Colt barrel and the groups dropped to 2 inches. Same gun (except for the barrel), same ammo and same shooter.

[DougGuy]

Don't forget about the ordnance tests, taking 100 complete 1911 pistols, completely disassembling them, then grabbing parts at random, there needed to be 100 complete and WORKING pistols!! This was in the original contract prior to WWI afaik..

The 1911, 1911A1, and all of the replacement parts for these pistols were produced by many vendors. The one common denominator is that they must all meet the requirements for interchangeability to be accepted by the US Army.

[wv109323]

Would the trouble rounds plunk test in the barrel?

[tazman]

Would the trouble rounds plunk test in the barrel?

No, some did not. The cast SWC loads did not plunk. The action would not close on them. They work fine in my other weapons but not this one.
The Nosler Jacketed hollow points would drop right in(plunk) but would fail to feed and get jammed a portion of the time. Not always. Again, these same loads and magazines work perfectly in my other pistols.
The replacement barrel had been throated where the original had not been. All loads ran through it without fail. Therefore, I am having the original barrel throated by the same man who did the replacement barrel.

[wv109323]

The throating should fix the problem with the SWCs. You may continue to have the same feeding problem with the Nozlers. As a guess the feeding issue may be due to a difference in OAL. With a blunt nose/shorter bullet the pathe of the bullet is changed as it goes up the feed ramp. The magazine will release the case at the same point but the bullet is not as far into the chamber as with the 200 swc. Also the angle of the case rim is changed with a shorter bullet as the rim slides up the breechface and under the extractor.

[DougGuy]

Also the angle of the case rim is changed with a shorter bullet as the rim slides up the breechface and under the extractor.

It also loses the upward push sooner from the boolit under the one being chambered. This is what pushes the round being chambered up the breech face and under the extractor hook. Upward pressure from the round(s) beneath it..

[tazman]

We will find out when I get the barrel back.
The replacement barrel fed the Nosler hollowpoints just fine though. Only difference was the barrel.

[S.B.]

I'd opt that at least 90% of all semi auto problems will be the magazines(can also affect what bullets feed well in particular guns)? I have no doubt the gunsmith recommended here does excellent work.
Steve

[bob208]

I have spent many hours with a glass and stones on the chamber end of a 1911 barrel even had to do some work on the frames. a little stone work makes a high power feed hollow points too.

[tazman]

I'm still concerned about the drop-in barrel.
The top lugs need to be checked. Layout blue or putty. Whatever method you like. Measure them.
It sounds like the bottem is tight because you have no movement.

Barrels and slides are expensive. Not to mention the cost of the gunsmith.
Just be careful. Please.

I tested the barrel lugs to see how deeply they engaged. They actually engage deeper than the original barrel does, so everything is fine.

[BD]

I'm with Char Gar on this one, I have seen many mix and match 1911's with a wide variety of barrels installed, and swapped between guns. I've never seen a lug shorn off. I think the engagement would need to be way out of spec for this to happen. I'm not saying it never happens, but it must be fairly rare if I haven't heard of a case. The more typical issue is a hiccup in function caused by lugs binding due to different length links having been installed, that is something I've seen a few times.

[tazman]

I got the barrel back from DougGuy and took it to the range today. All the problems are now gone. I ran over 100 rounds of various SWC and hollow point ammo through the pistol without a single hiccup of any kind.
Accuracy is at least as good as it was before. I say that because I was having a good day shooting this morning and without another trip or two with the same results, I can't say for sure the accuracy has improved. It was certainly shooting better today than before.

[Char-Gar]

I got the barrel back from DougGuy and took it to the range today. All the problems are now gone. I ran over 100 rounds of various SWC and hollow point ammo through the pistol without a single hiccup of any kind.
Accuracy is at least as good as it was before. I say that because I was having a good day shooting this morning and without another trip or two with the same results, I can't say for sure the accuracy has improved. It was certainly shooting better today than before.

When DougGuy gets through with a 1911 barrel, it will shot anything that will feed through the magazine. I have been shooting 452423 though the 45 Auto for quite some time and it has never been 100% when seated to the original Colt barrels throat. After DougGuy it can be seated out and the change in length has made all the difference in feeding. My loads are now as reliable as shooting ball ammo. Here is a pic illustrating the change in length.

[tazman]

I haven't played with seating depth yet since things are working well as they are. If they continue to work well, I won't change anything under the premise, if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
I have noticed with other cartridges(9mm) in my 1911 pistols that they do like longer cartridges for proper feeding.
I tried some shorter, stubbier boolits in my 9mm Range Officer(Lee 358-125-rf) and they simply would not feed. They never even got into the barrel so the chamber throat was never an issue. Those same cartridges feed without issue in my other pistols.

[DougGuy]

When DougGuy gets through with a 1911 barrel, it will shot anything that will feed through the magazine. I have been shooting 452423 though the 45 Auto for quite some time and it has never been 100% when seated to the original Colt barrels throat. After DougGuy it can be seated out and the change in length has made all the difference in feeding. My loads are now as reliable as shooting ball ammo. Here is a pic illustrating the change in length.

225964

Thank you Char-Gar. I shoot the same 452423 in my Government and Commander models, sized .452" I also use a HP design of the same boolit which also feeds like hardball.

I remember a long thread or maybe two started by Bigslug a couple of years back describing in great detail his efforts at using the 452423 in a 1911 and it was a long drawn out frustrating process that he went through before giving up on the boolit itself. I don't think he was aware of my services at the time and we did speak about it later but I am not sure he ever revisited the project or had a barrel throated to use the452423.

Accuracy is at it's very best when the boolit will enter the throat and be held concentric with the bore by the freebore. This effectively centers the chambered round in the chamber and the bore, provided the throat and the boolit are a snug fit, boolit sized .0005" under throat diameter. Properly throated, a 1911 should be able to feed any conventional boolit style or length that will cycle through the magazine.