Marlin Lever Gun in .357 and cast bullets

[Paper Shredder]

I'm reloading in .357 and I have recently gotten a Lyman 358665 mold. I had intended to buy a Marlin lever gun in .357 to shoot this bullet. But I read an article by Glen Fryxell last night that said - among other things - that the Marlin is very finicky with .357 and will not function well with the 358665 when said bullet is loaded to the crimp groove.

I was wondering if anyone here shoots the 358665 in a lever gun. What gun? And what is your experience with the Lyman 358665, loaded in .357 cases to the crimp grove and used in a lever gun?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[JSH]

I would suggest looking at molds designed for the platform rather than trying to force feed it. My Marlin 357 can get finicky about what it likes. I have to molds from group buys I years gone past designed with feeding in lever guns. There are some
Ranch dog molds designed for lever guns that work extremely well.
Jeff

[shortlegs]

I use a similar boolit in my marlin that functions fine. I was using a swc that would shave a portion of the wc ring when levered from mag tube but shot fairly well.Check your oal and trim brass to min length if cartridge is too long to feed well.

[Walks]

I tried some in my 1992 1894CS. Only in a .38SPL case. Fed perfectly. I prefer the LEE 358-158-RF. Again .38 cases only.
For the hot .357MAG loads I use the LYMAN #358156GC. Lubed 50/50, cast of #2 over max 2400. It feeds perfectly, without a problem. The SWC's with the big front driving bands like to "hangup".

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

The Winchester 73 clones are picky about COL also. It is not just Marlins. SWC and lever guns just don't mix well.

[MT Chambers]

358665 is an excellent boolit for feeding and accuracy in the .357, I have sold thousands to Cowboy action shooters.

[Paper Shredder]

I tried some in my 1992 1894CS. Only in a .38SPL case. Fed perfectly. I prefer the LEE 358-158-RF. Again .38 cases only.
For the hot .357MAG loads I use the LYMAN #358156GC. Lubed 50/50, cast of #2 over max 2400. It feeds perfectly, without a problem. The SWC's with the big front driving bands like to "hangup".

Thanks for the reply. I've read that they make great lever gun ammo in .38 cases. It might be worth looking around for old Keith load data for magnum .38s. But if I did this, I might be making a roundabout decision to never buy a .38 special gun.

Still, The bullet just looks like it would feed great as a full length .357. I was looking in the Lyman cast bullet book and the COAL for the 358665 is 1.575 inches. This is not overlong.

Maybe Mr. Fryxell just had a bad example of the Marlin? I don't know. There is a guy on the Midway site, under the reviews tab for the 358665, that says it feeds in his Henry Big Boy. Wasn't really my first choice gun, but if it works?

[Paper Shredder]

358665 is an excellent boolit for feeding and accuracy in the .357, I have sold thousands to Cowboy action shooters.

Yes! Yes! This is what I'm hoping to hear a few times.

[Paper Shredder]

I use a similar boolit in my marlin that functions fine. I was using a swc that would shave a portion of the wc ring when levered from mag tube but shot fairly well.Check your oal and trim brass to min length if cartridge is too long to feed well.

Do you recall what bullet?

[ReloaderFred]

Marlin .357 Magnum rifles and carbines require an overall loaded length of at least 1.480" to feed reliably, and won't generally feed a cartridge that has an OAL in excess of 1.590".

If you do get the mold, and like the bullet, you can always seat to the OAL that feeds well and then just crimp into the side of the bullet and ignore the crimping groove, if it's not in the right location. I've loaded well over 80,000 rounds for my wife's and my .357 Marlins and revolvers over the years for SASS, and none of those rounds were crimped into a lube groove.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Michael J. Spangler]

I have the lee version of this bullet and it’s pretty close to the Lyman. You might want to give that a try for an inexpensive trial.

I haven’t tried 357 brass but with 38 brass it seemed to feed fine in my marlin and my 1873.
I can’t recall trying the 357 though.

I’ll try to load a dummy this week and cycle it through. I’ll let you know.

[Paper Shredder]

I have the lee version of this bullet and it’s pretty close to the Lyman. You might want to give that a try for an inexpensive trial.

I haven’t tried 357 brass but with 38 brass it seemed to feed fine in my marlin and my 1873.
I can’t recall trying the 357 though.

I’ll try to load a dummy this week and cycle it through. I’ll let you know.

Mr. Spangler, thank you. If you get a chance to do this I would be grateful.

[mattw]

I have an early 90' or late 80's microgroove Marlin 1894 and it loves this bullet so much that it is all I feed it. It likes it fast, slow and everywhere in between.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010261087/rcbs-2-cavity-bullet-mold-357-180-sil-38-special-357-magnum-358-diameter-180-grain-silhouette-gas-check

[Michael J. Spangler]

Mr. Spangler, thank you. If you get a chance to do this I would be grateful.

OK so I loaded one this morning to check.
I slid it into the loading gate and worked the lever at a moderate speed. It slide through the action like it was greased. Not a hitch at all. No bump spots along the way that would damage the nose.
That being said I do have one of the magic Marlins that feed wadcutters too so who knows.
I think you will be fine. I have not compared the Lee bullet to the Lyman side by side but they appear to be very very close to each other. As soon as my local shop sells off his last 3 old style lee 6 cavity moulds I plan on buying a new style 6 cavity in this configuration.
It might be my new go to bullet instead of the 356156 depending on accuracy.

[Paper Shredder]

I have an early 90' or late 80's microgroove Marlin 1894 and it loves this bullet so much that it is all I feed it. It likes it fast, slow and everywhere in between.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010261087/rcbs-2-cavity-bullet-mold-357-180-sil-38-special-357-magnum-358-diameter-180-grain-silhouette-gas-check

Thanks, Mattw. I'll make a note of this and if the 358665 doesn't work out I'll have a sure thing.

[Paper Shredder]

OK so I loaded one this morning to check.
I slid it into the loading gate and worked the lever at a moderate speed. It slide through the action like it was greased. Not a hitch at all. No bump spots along the way that would damage the nose.
That being said I do have one of the magic Marlins that feed wadcutters too so who knows.
I think you will be fine. I have not compared the Lee bullet to the Lyman side by side but they appear to be very very close to each other. As soon as my local shop sells off his last 3 old style lee 6 cavity moulds I plan on buying a new style 6 cavity in this configuration.
It might be my new go to bullet instead of the 356156 depending on accuracy.

Thanks, my friend. I'd prefer the Marlin. I think it's worth the chance.

[shortlegs]

Lee 158 gr swc and magnus 158 gr swc. The magnus boolits are from the 80's and the original maguns if that makes any difference. Both boolits look similar and shoot/function well. My marlin is an 80's model.

[Walks]

Sorry, I should have offered to make up some dummies to try. You REALLY SHOULD BUY THE MARLIN OVER the so called "henry". Had a COWBOY SHOOTING BUDDY that bought one. He couldn't get shut of that piece of junk fast enough. With the MARLIN, you are getting a rifle made of STEEL, not pot metal.
And GEEZ, they are fun. The Best Gun for woods walking. With a good AMERICAN REVOLVER holstered, and a belt full of cartridges. Makes a great day for walking, thinking and watching. Have always preferred it to .44MAG for that.

[jmort]

There is no pot metal in the Henry .357
The .22 LR and .22 mag have Zamak 5 receivers which last for a couple hundred thousand rounds or more.
We should be careful to post accurate information. Most know the Henry is well made, but the people winning matches are using 73s, Italian clones. Henry is not the first choice for SASS, but that does not mean it is not a fine lever action.

[MyFlatline]

Sold my Marlin 357's and prefer the chitty Henry. I'm Marlin for the most part but the Henry BBS is a keeper.

[barkerwc4362]

I have an early Marlin 1894C. It was purchased used in the mid 80s. I shoot the SAECO 180 grain RFGC. I cast them out of linotype and shoot them lubed with Blue Angel, but unsized. I run them through a .360 sizer die which only lubes them. I use CCI450 primers and a stout charge of surplus WCC820. They feed perfectly through my carbine.

Bill

[Paper Shredder]

Lee 158 gr swc and magnus 158 gr swc. The magnus boolits are from the 80's and the original maguns if that makes any difference. Both boolits look similar and shoot/function well. My marlin is an 80's model.

I've seen the magnus boolits around. Interesting that your rifle liked SWCs.

[Paper Shredder]

Sorry, I should have offered to make up some dummies to try. You REALLY SHOULD BUY THE MARLIN OVER the so called "henry". Had a COWBOY SHOOTING BUDDY that bought one. He couldn't get shut of that piece of junk fast enough. With the MARLIN, you are getting a rifle made of STEEL, not pot metal.
And GEEZ, they are fun. The Best Gun for woods walking. With a good AMERICAN REVOLVER holstered, and a belt full of cartridges. Makes a great day for walking, thinking and watching. Have always preferred it to .44MAG for that.

You may have opened a can of worms with your rifle comparison. :) If I went Henry, it would be the BBS - and I hear it has a better trigger but I've never handled one and the Marlin can be upgraded with the WWG Happy Trigger.

This is going to sound a little crazy but Marlin gets the nod because the front sight has a shroud that attaches below the dovetail. That and the new 1894CS has the ballard type rifling. I could just see myself out on a walk, getting distracted, and whacking the front sight against something hard. With the Marlin I'd more than likely still be sighted in after I did that.

[Paper Shredder]

Marlin .357 Magnum rifles and carbines require an overall loaded length of at least 1.480" to feed reliably, and won't generally feed a cartridge that has an OAL in excess of 1.590".

If you do get the mold, and like the bullet, you can always seat to the OAL that feeds well and then just crimp into the side of the bullet and ignore the crimping groove, if it's not in the right location. I've loaded well over 80,000 rounds for my wife's and my .357 Marlins and revolvers over the years for SASS, and none of those rounds were crimped into a lube groove.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Thanks, Fred. It sounds like good advice. I don't think Burroughs gets quoted much by the SASS crowd. :) But he did say a few smart things - and maybe a few totally crazy things, too.

[Paper Shredder]

I have an early Marlin 1894C. It was purchased used in the mid 80s. I shoot the SAECO 180 grain RFGC. I cast them out of linotype and shoot them lubed with Blue Angel, but unsized. I run them through a .360 sizer die which only lubes them. I use CCI450 primers and a stout charge of surplus WCC820. They feed perfectly through my carbine.

Bill

Thanks, Barkerwc4362. I check out that SAECO mold.

[Walks]

I was at the range back in March. Shooting my HANDI-RIFLE, MARLIN 1895CB & Trapdoor Carbine in .45-70 with light cast loads.
There was a young man farther down the line shooting a "henry" lever gun in .45-70. He was shooting REMINGTON 405GR factory loads trying to get sighted in for the HORNADY Mono-Flex load. Couldn't quite understand that reasoning. But he was shooting the REMINGTON ammo because the HORNADY Mono-Flex wouldn't feed out of the magazine of his "henry".
I offered him some of my light .45-70 loads to try, but he refused.
Apparently when he called "henry" they told him to just put a 100 rounds thru the gun to smooth it out. They also told him to never shoot any lead ammo as that would damage the rifle.
I couldn't decide if this young man was gun naive or just slow.
I convinced him to try cycling his HORNADY MONO-FLEX ammo in my MARLIN 1895CB. It functioned/fed/ejected without a hitch.
He had bought the "henry" for pig hunting here in CA, where we are limited to "lead-free" ammo. He left after his 3rd 20rd box of REM ammo & 3 rounds of HORNADY to check POA for his "single shot".
HORNADY even says in their 2018 that some rifle may need modification to feed LeveRevolution & Mono-Flex ammo. You would have thought "henry" would have mentioned that to this nice young man.
Incidentally this was his first NON-black gun.

And I picked up his brass after he left, 60rd REM once-fired .45-70 & 218 FC .223 G.I.

I really felt sorry for him. But he sure liked my MARLIN 1895CB. It was a bit muzzle heavy for him. But then after 4yrs in the ARMY humping that tiny M4 what rifle wouldn't. And of course that was the 1st gun he bought when he finished his enlistment.

[Drm50]

I have no experience with new 357 levers. I had a couple Marlins and a Puma. I shot 158 RN of
Lyman or RCBS, I forget but still have the mold. Cast straight WWs. They fed slick as a whistle &
were accurate with moderate loading.

I have also found Marlins don't like SWC bullets from 39s with Yellow Jackets to the big bores.
I have also found that if single loaded the Marlin will do well with most any bullet you have. The
357s aren't near as finicky as 44s on bullet dia.

[shortlegs]

I told you wrong about the Lee boolit, it is the 158gr rf 'cowboy' boolit. That eliminates the shaving of the fullsize driving band when chambering the rounds. The cowboy boolit feeds slick!

[Michael J. Spangler]

I told you wrong about the Lee boolit, it is the 158gr rf 'cowboy' boolit. That eliminates the shaving of the fullsize driving band when chambering the rounds. The cowboy boolit feeds slick!


Yep. That’s the one I did a test round with. I think he will like that bullet.

[mattw]

I have got to say, my old 1894C will eat SWC's all day long in either 38 or 357 cases. The microgrove really prefers the 180 grain cast bullets, they are more accurate. I do use a stout load of canister H110 data powder and could not be happier with it. When the kids shoot it, they shoot mid-velocity 158's and the little Lee 105 in 38's sized to .359. She has been shot enough that it does not lead even with the 105.

[Goldstar225]

I recently bought a 1894CS made an 1995 and made up some loads for it. I wanted to stick with using .357 cases for both light and full power loads. My light load is 3.5 grains of W231 with a RCBS 28-150 SWC (900 FPS). As seated and crimped in the crimp groove the round wouldn't feed. It was too long and would interfere with the carrier lifting it up. The OAL was 1.613, just slightly over the 1.590 that the marlin needs. I filed the carrier shell stop back .05 and the rifle now feeds my rounds like a fat kid eating M&Ms.

[FergusonTO35]

To me, the Lee 358-125-RF and 358-158-RF are the gold standard boolits for the 1894C. My 1982 example with micro groove shoots 'em great. The latter slug will take a gas check just fine too.

[wildwilly]

I encountered a feeding issue with my '94 .357 Marlin accepting 200gr. boolits in .357 cases. I remedied the problem by trimming .357 cases back until the dummy rounds were reliably cycling through the action. I still had sufficient volume to reload to magnum velocities using faster powders.

[mattw]

@wildwilly... what 200 are you shooting? I have tried may times to go to 200 or over. Someone gave me a handful of 220 SWC at some point, they worked great in 357 cases, would cycle and shoot. But, I could never find the mould and the bullets came from a random vendor at a gun show. I need to look to see if I kept one to further the search, but that was 15 years ago.

[cwlongshot]

I don't know how much 2400 and Unique I have burned up thru my pistol levers thru the years... I can say that I never really "wanted" for anything else with a lead bullet...

CW