Removing Bore Pits at home? Any possible ways?

[Kev18]

I have alot of pits in my 1886. Was wondering if people had any way of buffing them out or slightly improving bore condition. It shoots good I was just wondering. The rifle if the vintage models made in 1888 with the light rifling.

[Tatume]

Give it a good cleaning and keep it oiled with a rust preventative so the pits don't worsen. If it shoots well, it's is unlikely that you will improve the performance with home remedies for the pitting.

[Hannibal]

Rust pits. The only way to remove them is to remove the surrounding metal until all surfaces are level.

What good could you possibly accomplish if the rifle shoots to your satisfaction?

And if it does not, odds are nil that you will make it better.

[ShooterAZ]

I don't know of a way to remove the pits without removing metal. Firing a few paper patched boolits through it will smooth the bore though. Might could try that. If it shoots good, I'd just keep shooting it and not worry about it.

[ncbearman]

I don't know of a way to remove the pits without removing metal. Firing a few paper patched boolits through it will smooth the bore though. Might could try that. If it shoots good, I'd just keep shooting it and not worry about it.

This is an interesting statement. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. Just inquisitive. How would paper patch smooth a bore. Thanks.

[merlin101]

This is an interesting statement. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. Just inquisitive. How would paper patch smooth a bore. Thanks.

Same as how water wears down rock, after millions of years/shots?

[ncbearman]

Same as how water wears down rock, after millions of years/shots?

:Fire:

[reivertom]

Not short of a reaming and re-line or re-boring it. Just shoot it and have fun, if it shoots OK, and try to keep it as clean as possible.

[Tripplebeards]

Have it overbored

[Texas by God]

Shoot the snot out of it and enjoy the ride.

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[Reverend Al]

Another option if you just want to reduce a bit of the pitting without destroying the bore that is left would be "fire lapping".

https://www.btibrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bore-Lapping-Instructions.pdf

[ShooterAZ]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?174237-paper-patching-healing-a-rough-barrel

[Hannibal]

I guess it all depends upon your level of expectation.

To Kev18 - what do you plan to do with this rifle?

[indian joe]

Rust pits. The only way to remove them is to remove the surrounding metal until all surfaces are level.

What good could you possibly accomplish if the rifle shoots to your satisfaction?

And if it does not, odds are nil that you will make it better.

Nah!! if it dont shoot good odds are 100% that you can make it better ---get an old brass brush and wrap it tight with steel wool - needs to be a jam fit - tight as you can get - takes a couple of tries and some extra wrap - then wet it down with -------- (probably any fine polishing compound would work - brasso - I used jewellers rouge on a couple) - and have at it - polishing the bore of these old part rusted guns - the improvement will amaze you - you wont remove the pits and the barrel will always foul out quicker with blackpowder than a new one, but you can get something that looks stuffed back to a good shooter - second part of the deal is slug the bore and make sure the boolit fits - lots of these old guns had oversize bores and need a boolit that fits right. I even did this trick on a shot out 22/250 barrel and got it back shooting (throat erosion at about 4000 rounds). If it wont shoot ya got nothin to lose.

[Hannibal]

Nah!! if it dont shoot good odds are 100% that you can make it better ---get an old brass brush and wrap it tight with steel wool - needs to be a jam fit - tight as you can get - takes a couple of tries and some extra wrap - then wet it down with -------- (probably any fine polishing compound would work - brasso - I used jewellers rouge on a couple) - and have at it - polishing the bore of these old part rusted guns - the improvement will amaze you - you wont remove the pits and the barrel will always foul out quicker with blackpowder than a new one, but you can get something that looks stuffed back to a good shooter - second part of the deal is slug the bore and make sure the boolit fits - lots of these old guns had oversize bores and need a boolit that fits right. I even did this trick on a shot out 22/250 barrel and got it back shooting (throat erosion at about 4000 rounds). If it wont shoot ya got nothin to lose.

Your last sentence makes my entire point.

If you shoot the doggone thing 500 times trying to find the 'Majik Bullet' then yeah, you're likely to shoot it a bit better than you did 500 rounds ago.

It is what it is.

[OverMax]

Old rifle not well taken care of_w/ "Bore pitting"
130 years of wear & tare. _Seldom is there a cure all for a pitted barrel. Only one sure way I know to resolve. Have your rifle barrel re-lined by a competent GunSmith.

[Hannibal]

Old rifle not well taken care of_w/ "Bore pitting"
130 years of wear & tare. _Seldom is there a cure all for a pitted barrel. Only one sure way I know to resolve. Have your rifle barrel re-lined by a competent GunSmith.

Good advice here. ^

This? Not so much. 224989

[Uncle Grinch]

I remember reading an article years ago about a product (paste ?) that you pushed through a cleaned pitted bore that filled the pits. It was then allowed to setup and harden. It gave a temporary smooth bore. Not sure how long it lasted.

Now understand, this was many years ago... I’m 70 now and have been reading and following guns since I was a pre-teen.

[country gent]

The paper patched bullet will polish the barrel slowly the paper used is slightly abrasive at 2000-2500 grit. It will polish the bore to a mirror finish and remove sharp edges on the pits some. May help or may not. Its a long process to do much with it. Hand lapping can be done and this may or may not help again it depends on the bore how deep the pots are and what you want to accomplish. Pits .003 deep will open groove dia up .006 since it will take the .003 off everywhere in the bore. One plus to lapping the bore is you can lap a taper into the bore even.

The first thing to do is get a good look in the bore with a bore scope and determine how deep the pots are and how big they are. Next is to determine where they are located in front of chamber, mid bore or muzzle? Last is to slug bore and see what you have to work with older barrels varied some so a tight bore might give you some room to work but a larger oversized detracts from what you can do.

[bigted]

This is an interesting statement. Seriously. I'm not being sarcastic. Just inquisitive. How would paper patch smooth a bore. Thanks.

Paper comes in a variety of makes and abrasiveness. [Like that word?] Some paper has a high clay content and some is pretty mild with rag content instead of clay. The clay paper will be pretty abrasive on the barrel metal ... most especially an old 100 year old or older barrel. I would get something like onion skin paper from Buffallo Arms or some high rag content from a office supply store. I would wrap the boolits to groove diameter and shoot em fairly slow with a bit of Trail Boss. Around 100 of these will shine the crud outta your barrel. If not enough run another 100 through her.

You may like em well enough to run em from now on.

If this is of intetest , i would go to the section for paper patching and determine if you want to work with smokeless or black powder ... different approach to the loading and size differences between smokeless and black.

[fiberoptik]

What about using Flitz or Simichrome as a lube on paper patched added right before firing? I’ve never pp’d, but seems good at least in theory …


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[indian joe]

[QUOTE=Hannibal;4425475]Your last sentence makes my entire point.

your point was ?????

your statement was if it wont shoot there is nil chance to make it better - thats baloney - polish it up and there is a good chance to make it much better - I have done several and it works

If you did it and it didnt work - ya didnt do it right - if ya never tried it - maybe one day ya should before callin me a BS artist

[Tatume]

Some people did not read the OP. The fellow says "It shoots good." So he has a very real chance of making it worse.

[TCLouis]

If they are pits, there really is no other way to remove them without enlarging the bore.
If it is shooting well now, then I would say, "Leave it be, and shoot away."
IF the pits are causing leading, then maybe the paper patch route will stop that.

[indian joe]

Some people did not read the OP. The fellow says "It shoots good." So he has a very real chance of making it worse.

ohh I read the OP alright - and I got it too - I was adressing that one line from Hannibal "if it wont shoot there is nil chance to make it better" - again - baloney!!!

[Bent Ramrod]

I’ve fire lapped a lot of guns with frosty bores, and even a few with good (even new) bores that “shot OK,” but did not shoot as well as I thought they should, after extensive testing. In no instance did any of them shoot worse after the treatment than before, and in most cases there was a marked improvement in accuracy and ease of cleaning.

Lapping of any sort will not “remove” pitting of any real depth, but it will polish and round the edges of the pits so they are less efficient at stripping lead off the passing boolit.

Of course, one has to do it properly. The original method of “pressure (fire) lapping” propounded by Merrill Martin in Precision Shooting has been mutated into a dozen variants by other writers, most of which will not improve things much and may do real harm. Prominent among these techniques are vigorous application of bore mops saturated with abrasives, rapid-fire of abrasive-coated lead boolits, use of abrasive-coated jacketed bullets, and that all-time classic, lapping of an untested new barrel by the customer who assumes he knows more than the barrel maker about what constitutes “the Ultimate in rifle accuracy.” These individuals, after messing things up, lose no time informing others that fire lapping is “no good.”

I’ve never tried paper patched boolits through a cruddy bore, but I would think that any abrading would be done to the patch and boolit, rather than the bore. Appreciable wear, or loss of accuracy, on modern barrels by paper patches (the blackpowder kind, anyway) has only been noted by a few competitors, and not until ten thousand or more shots have been fired. Even the old soft barrels were only shot out by market hunters who killed thousands of animals. Many of the old competitors’ rifles, properly maintained, still reportedly shoot well.

I don’t think I’ve fired more that 150 fire lapping rounds through a barrel before accuracy testing leveled off to “as good as it gets,” and generally 50 or 100 shots, over several sessions, is enough.

[Kev18]

I was just asking if anyone had any remedies. But the rifle performs fine. It's my favorite rifle for mine but it's the only one with alot of putting. I read that pits dont matter on a forum somewhere, not here. A guy said as long as the beginning of the chamber and end of barrel/muzzle is clean , even with pits, good accuracy is still possible. It seems to be doing good so far.

[EMC45]

Patch lap or fire lap. Clean real well and then oil and enjoy the ol girl.

[indian joe]

I’ve fire lapped a lot of guns with frosty bores, and even a few with good (even new) bores that “shot OK,” but did not shoot as well as I thought they should, after extensive testing. In no instance did any of them shoot worse after the treatment than before, and in most cases there was a marked improvement in accuracy and ease of cleaning.

Lapping of any sort will not “remove” pitting of any real depth, but it will polish and round the edges of the pits so they are less efficient at stripping lead off the passing boolit.

Of course, one has to do it properly. The original method of “pressure (fire) lapping” propounded by Merrill Martin in Precision Shooting has been mutated into a dozen variants by other writers, most of which will not improve things much and may do real harm. Prominent among these techniques are vigorous application of bore mops saturated with abrasives, rapid-fire of abrasive-coated lead boolits, use of abrasive-coated jacketed bullets, and that all-time classic, lapping of an untested new barrel by the customer who assumes he knows more than the barrel maker about what constitutes “the Ultimate in rifle accuracy.” These individuals, after messing things up, lose no time informing others that fire lapping is “no good.”

I’ve never tried paper patched boolits through a cruddy bore, but I would think that any abrading would be done to the patch and boolit, rather than the bore. Appreciable wear, or loss of accuracy, on modern barrels by paper patches (the blackpowder kind, anyway) has only been noted by a few competitors, and not until ten thousand or more shots have been fired. Even the old soft barrels were only shot out by market hunters who killed thousands of animals. Many of the old competitors’ rifles, properly maintained, still reportedly shoot well.

I don’t think I’ve fired more that 150 fire lapping rounds through a barrel before accuracy testing leveled off to “as good as it gets,” and generally 50 or 100 shots, over several sessions, is enough.

Waaaaal I am 6 from 6 with my "vigorus application of bore mop" so far .....did I get lucky 6 times in a row ??....maybe .......or maybe if you pay attention there is something to it? .....BUT ....I use polish and very fine steel wool NOT heavy abrasive .....Valve grinding paste ? I DONT THINK SO!
Certainly agree if it aint broke dont mess around fixin it - also there are a lot of hamfisted blokes out there that can mess up the simplest of mechanical tasks

Would I recommend the OP attack his 86 ? probably not - it aint broke !

Was it mine would I ? more n likely - an If I did I bet london to a brick its shoots better or fouls less or both after I done it

Howsoever I dont include meself in "hamfisted blokes" ------

have read about "fire lapping" - never done it - based on reading the method I prefered the brush - dumb ? maybe but I dont think so - stubborn ? definitely yes:grin:

[bigted]

Well Kev, looks like you have answers to your question. Question is now ... are you dissatisfied enough to desire the gamble of messing with it or shoot it as is.

Seems like there is a few options if messing with it is in order. All depends on how mechanical you are as to whether it seems advisable.

I have lapped a few black powder muzzle loaders and had marvy results. I got easy cleaning and rounded the edges of the pits so they did not tear up my patch's, this resulted in better accuracy ... however ... bear in mind that a muzzle loader can handle thicker patch in the event of over scrubbing and thinning the rifling.

[ncbearman]

Paper comes in a variety of makes and abrasiveness. [Like that word?] Some paper has a high clay content and some is pretty mild with rag content instead of clay. The clay paper will be pretty abrasive on the barrel metal ... most especially an old 100 year old or older barrel. I would get something like onion skin paper from Buffallo Arms or some high rag content from a office supply store. I would wrap the boolits to groove diameter and shoot em fairly slow with a bit of Trail Boss. Around 100 of these will shine the crud outta your barrel. If not enough run another 100 through her.

You may like em well enough to run em from now on.

If this is of intetest , i would go to the section for paper patching and determine if you want to work with smokeless or black powder ... different approach to the loading and size differences between smokeless and black.

Now see………Dad said "never go to bed at night without having learned something new that day." I'll sleep well tonight! Thanks.

[Kev18]

Well Kev, looks like you have answers to your question. Question is now ... are you dissatisfied enough to desire the gamble of messing with it or shoot it as is.

Seems like there is a few options if messing with it is in order. All depends on how mechanical you are as to whether it seems advisable.

I have lapped a few black powder muzzle loaders and had marvy results. I got easy cleaning and rounded the edges of the pits so they did not tear up my patch's, this resulted in better accuracy ... however ... bear in mind that a muzzle loader can handle thicker patch in the event of over scrubbing and thinning the rifling.

I always wondered about paper patching. Maybe il try it one day. I feel like i asked a question and everyone got mad at each other! I just wanted to gain a bit of knowledge.

[indian joe]

I always wondered about paper patching. Maybe il try it one day. I feel like i asked a question and everyone got mad at each other! I just wanted to gain a bit of knowledge.

Kev .....Who got mad ? just a bit of friendly discussion is all. Dont let it bother ya.

[fast ronnie]

Even if it's pitted, if it shoots OK I personally wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't shoot, then the other options are available.
Like has been said before, what are your expectations?
If it already loose, lapping will make it bigger and "possibly" make it worse. If tight, it will probably help.
Sometimes the only recourse is lining or a new barrel. Of course, that will depend on if originality is to be maintained or not. Some guns will not affect the value, others may greatly change the value.
Like I said before, it is a judgement call on your part as the gun is yours and not someone else's.

[indian joe]

Even if it's pitted, if it shoots OK I personally wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't shoot, then the other options are available.
Like has been said before, what are your expectations?
If it already loose, lapping will make it bigger and "possibly" make it worse. If tight, it will probably help.
Sometimes the only recourse is lining or a new barrel. Of course, that will depend on if originality is to be maintained or not. Some guns will not affect the value, others may greatly change the value.
Like I said before, it is a judgement call on your part as the gun is yours and not someone else's.

Ronnie
The last barrel I did was out of an original 73 - it was a borderline shooter but pretty untidy so we rebarreled the rifle, but I was reluctant to toss the old tube - I slugged the old barrel and it came out on spec (.401) I shined it up with the steel wool brush and jewellers rouge and slugged it again after wards - still measured on spec at .401 - the big difference was that second slug went through so much easier and the land and groove markings on it were smooth and shiny compared to the first one (both were pure lead round ball) - I fitted that barrel up to a 92 action I was working on at the time and shot it - no more flyers !!!! Its been setback two threads and the old chamber cut out also took about 3/8 th inch off the muzzle and recrowned - I had a new barrel coming for the 92 so I polished the old one up on the outside gave it a touch up blue job and stashed it full of grease - on the lookout now for another original with a wrecked bore ......
Bottom line ---I could not measure any "make it bigger" effect from my lapping procedure - but I dont use agressive cutting compound either - just the finest steel wool and POLISH.

[RED BEAR]

I to Denver reading about a product that was supposed to fill in pits can't tenner what it was called. Recently read some speculation about weather bore coat would work on potted notes not sure if the manufacturer they make note clean and now bore coat i believe it is supposed to reduce barrel fouling and the talk about using it for pits was just speculation. Other than something like that the only way to get rid of it is to remove material. If you can see Pitts clearly then the amount of material need to be removed would definitely be excessive. My advice is just shoot it and enjoy.

[indian joe]

I to Denver reading about a product that was supposed to fill in pits can't tenner what it was called. Recently read some speculation about weather bore coat would work on potted notes not sure if the manufacturer they make note clean and now bore coat i believe it is supposed to reduce barrel fouling and the talk about using it for pits was just speculation. Other than something like that the only way to get rid of it is to remove material. If you can see Pitts clearly then the amount of material need to be removed would definitely be excessive. My advice is just shoot it and enjoy.

yeah you right - cant remove pits without makin it bigger - but can polish so the edges of em dont drag at the projectile or patch on its way down the barl --- if it aint broke dont fix it !!!!!!

[Kenstone]

I would choose/use any method suggested...
But the key here is to never look at the bore again after[smilie=s:
:mrgreen:

[OverMax]

At home remedies for a dark pitted bore are far and few between.
"Can't hurt the bore any worse than it already is. If the rifle has decent accuracy ignore those pittings__ clean the barrel as best you can than enjoy shooting the old girl. Otherwise__ it will plaque up nice to enhance any Man Cave's {or Den} wall.