loose powder and ball

[toot]

i have an original SHARPS CARBINE that is in 54. CAL. i be leave. the bore mick's out at .530 DIA. so that would be 54 CAL. so i would like to shoot loose ball and powder in it, not paper cartridges. i would like to know can i shoot a .530 or .535. DIA. round ball in it with loose powder? push in the ball with a dowel and fill the rest of the chamber with 2FG. black powder and cap it and shoot.

[Nobade]

Sure you can, but with no lube and no gas seal like a patch around the ball it won't be very accurate and will foul out fast.

[carbine]

Hey Toot
Lou Lou Lou

[rodwha]

i have an original SHARPS CARBINE that is in 54. CAL. i be leave. the bore mick's out at .530 DIA. so that would be 54 CAL. so i would like to shoot loose ball and powder in it, not paper cartridges. i would like to know can i shoot a .530 or .535. DIA. round ball in it with loose powder? push in the ball with a dowel and fill the rest of the chamber with 2FG. black powder and cap it and shoot.

I’m assuming your observed diameter is the groove diameter. In general a muzzleloader meant for a patched ball has deep grooves. For a .54 cal this might have lands at .540” and grooves at .560”. One would use a .530” ball and a patch roughly 0.015”, which when wrapped around the ball creates a diameter 0.560”. That’s not to say a barrel with shallow grooves meant for conicals can’t be made to work well. One would either need a thinner patch or smaller ball. I may be wrong but I believe the Sharps has shallow grooves. You’d be hard pressed to find a ball of proper size I believe, though there is a British custom ball mold maker I’ve heard of.

Another option might be to use a lubricated felt wad that’s slightly over groove diameter. This will help seal in the gasses and deal with fouling, and then to use a ball over land diameter. Of course the larger the ball is the harder it will be to get started. I’ve read of a couple of people doing this and it working well enough.

[Buzzard II]

Toot,
Original Sharps carbines were in .52 caliber. Repros are 50 and 54 caliber. They were meant to be loaded with a projectile and paper cartridge. You can load a projectile and loose powder behind it, but it can get a bit messy. Try looking on the n-ssa.org site. Good luck.
Bob

[Moleman-]

Lubed bullets pushed up to the rifling is what I did with mine. Then slightly over fill the chamber with powder and then raise the block. Mine was a replica and in a moment of stupidity I sold it. I'll eventually get another one or two.

[toot]

HEY, LOU LOU LOU, i'm seeking all of the info i can get on the Sharps as you see. great to hear from you toot.

[toot]

Buzzard II, i put a dial caliper in the front of the bore and the Grouve DIA, the deep grouves, not the LAND's that stick up. DIA miked out at . 530, so i am thinking that would make it a 54 CALIBER BORE, carbine. so that is why i asked if i could shoot a .530 or .535 dia. round ball's out of it with loose powder behind it, just close the loading block and cap it and shoot it.

[varsity07840]

Toot,
Original Sharps carbines were in .52 caliber. Repros are 50 and 54 caliber. They were meant to be loaded with a projectile and paper cartridge. You can load a projectile and loose powder behind it, but it can get a bit messy. Try looking on the n-ssa.org site. Good luck.
Bob

Pedersoli Sharps' have .520 bore and .540 groove sizes respectively.

[toot]

Moleman-when you say lubed bullets do you mean round balls or pointed bullet's?

[Moleman-]

Toot, mine was a 54 so I used pointed bullets I cast and lubed with bore butter or crisco with a little bees wax in it to keep it firm in the summer. I did load some patched round ball up using the rifle like a standard muzzleloader but they weren't as accurate and for plinking it was much faster to breach load. Didn't like to make paper cartridges, but did make paper powder charges which is similar I suppose. The block on mine had a knife edge which cut the paper cartridge cleanly.

[Nobade]

I suppose if you wanted to fire balls in one you'd be best to find one that fits the chamber closely so it will seal the bore when you touch it off. A big lubed felt wad behind it would likely help quite a bit also. Just size that so it's snug in the chamber also.

[Tasbay]

I`m not really familiar with the Sharps but with my Enfield Snider .577 a cartridge gun. I load 28g shotgun shells with homemade BP and sit a .600 soft lead round ball on top. No patching and no lube. Its surprisingly accurate and fouling has not been an issue. As I don't have dies for the rifle and as the cases stretch around the mouth I will then lay a un-lubed patch over the top of the case mouth and press the ball into the case in a vice, this works as well. My point is yes you should be able to fire lead round balls not patched.

[toot]

i couldn't patch a round ball in a SHARPS be cause the ball would facing in reverse. facing me with the patch facing out the bore first then the ball. kinda like reverse engineering. so i think a patch is out of the question for a seal. but i like the idea of a felt wad behind the ball then fill the chamber with loose powder and let her go.that would make a good gas seal.

[bedbugbilly]

Just throwing this out there . . . what difference would it make if the ball was patched in reverse? The patch serves as a seal in the lands. The only reason the patch faces the breech in a muzzleloader is because it is loaded form the muzzle.If loaded form the breech, the ball is not going to blow through the patch until it leaves the bore at the muzzle - and thus it will still serve the purpose of sealing the lands. What little of the patch corners that face the breech in the case of your Sharps will be in the volume area where the powder goes and I doubt it will take up that much volume to make a difference. Just a thought. If your bore is .530, you should't have much problem in finding .530 or .535 RB mold.

I'm no expert on a Sharps - so am just wondering if someone out there who is can state what the rue bore diameter one the original Sharps was - based on actual measurements of original specimens? WERE the originals actually .530 bores with the idea of the 52 cal. conical boolit being sized that in order to compensate for fouling build up in the bore? You have to remember that the carbines were not designed as "long range" firearms - but rather as close range skirmishing and fightting. As a breechloader, their rate of fire should have been more than those they often faced - especially infantry armed with muzzleloaders. IIRC, the cartridge box held forty rounds - the same as infantry cartridge boxes. If deployed for a length of time, especially during a battle that may last several days and then afterwards, it would be very feasible that emptying their cartridge boxes and being re-supplied would mean that their carbine would have quite a few cartridges through it before they could clean it. Just wondering if the bore sizes were .530 or all over the place?

Good luck with your Sharps toot - it sounds like a fun project!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I too used a soft lead bullet lubed with Thompson's Bore Butter, I used a short rammer to push the bullet forward in the chamber, then filled the rest with loose powder while pointed down, then closed the breech. I remember about 5" groups at a 100 yards. I do not remember what bullet, as over 20 years ago. One of the Lee Real Molds might work, Dixie Gun sells various bullets for the old style rifles.

[59sharps]

i have an original SHARPS CARBINE that is in 54. CAL. i be leave. the bore mick's out at .530 DIA. so that would be 54 CAL. so i would like to shoot loose ball and powder in it, not paper cartridges. i would like to know can i shoot a .530 or .535. DIA. round ball in it with loose powder? push in the ball with a dowel and fill the rest of the chamber with 2FG. black powder and cap it and shoot.

Toot think I said this I use 2 diffrent bulks both w Charlie's tubes . 1 uses 38 of 2ffg the other 42 of 2ffg. I'll get your package together later this evening or tomorrow after church.
CW .
Hi Lou.

[Buzzard II]

PM sent
Bob

[toot]

Buzzardll,got your PM. and replied. toot.

[toot]

i think i have said my SHARPS CARBINE is an original mod 1863, with no patch box.

[toot]

i am all set on the questions that i asked. thanks to all who helped me.