How fast should 350 gr. 45/70 be for 250# bear.

[Yooper003]

Got a mich bear tag. Want to hunt with my 45/70. How fast should I load a 350 gr. Cb to get pass through on 200 - 300# bear?

[Gray Fox]

Depends on the distance, but probably any load OK for a trapdoor should do the job without beating you up. GF

[dh2]

I am using a 460-405 HP running at over trap door speed. not because that is what it takes to kill deer . hog or bear where 100 years in the swamp is a long shot, my rifle does better than other boolits I have tried. but no animal has ever stopped this boolit, it has always pasted through. with that in mind I am using to much boolit to pushed to fast. but there is no such thing as too dead. I would think 350 Gr. a bit slower would put him down and I would not worry it the bear was over the 250# mark

[willicd76]

my marlin load was a 435gr WFN at 1800fps. didnt figure there was much it couldnt do.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I have tested 355gr Cast Wide Flat Nose to just over 2500fps and hunted my first 45/70 season with that bullet at 2300fps.

However, the bullet that I thankfully went to is a 465gr WFN which I put out the barrel at 1650fps.

I shoot a RUGER #1 but a reasonable and safe velocity in a Marlin will do everything needed providing good shot placement and reasonable range

The heavier and slower bullet is just soooooooooooo much better in every respect, accounting for a pile of deer and 3 elk all without the devastation caused by the 355gr at 2300fps.

So, You would be much better off to not be so concerned with the velocity as with a good bullet choice at a reasonable velocity whatever testing your rifle shows that to be.

With a good bullet of 400+ grains in weight you simply DO NOT need warp velocity to take any critter that walks North American soil and most of the rest of the world to boot.

Use a good bullet with integrity and find what velocity your rifle likes and forget seeking higher FPS!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[knifemaker]

I use a Ranch dog 350 gr. RNFP bullet in my Marlin 45/70 LTD-V lever action. I load it with 43 gr. IMR-4198 powder for 1850 fps. Used that load to take several bison and one 250 lb. hog. On the bison it was a complete pass though and one shot kill. On the hog, shot him at about 80 yards face on. entered front chest and the hog just rolled over dead. we found that bullet in front of the left rear ham mushroomed to about 60 caliber after penetrating just over 3 feet.

[Grmps]

Just fast enough to be accurate at whatever distance you are shooting. with 350 grain, you hit the kill zones and it's going down.

[Edward]

Got a mich bear tag. Want to hunt with my 45/70. How fast should I load a 350 gr. Cb to get pass through on 200 - 300# bear? Unless he"s facing you 1200FPS will do ,I get pass thru"s with cedar shafts :bigsmyl2:

[Yooper003]

The reason I asked is,I can't get the accuracy I want from my cast boolits at much over 1200-1400 I have 3 different bullets in jacketed loads that shoot very well & as I have harvested a bear with jacketed bullet, I just wanted to try it with cast.

[GooseGestapo]

A .45Colt pistol shooting a 270gr SWC at 1,100fps will shoot through a treed 250lb bear according to Brian Pierce (HandLoader magazine).

So, a 350gr bullet from a .45/70 at 1,500-2,000fps will do the job.
My load for deer/pigs/bear is a RCBS 300gr FNGC over 30.0gr of #2400. Gets 1,650fps from 18.5” Guide Gun, 1,700 from 22”bbl. and shoots 2moa with either gun. Actual as cast weight is 322gr.
A friends son shot a 400lb pig with one. Angling frontal shot exited mid torso. Pig ran 25yds before falling over side ways.1”exit wound. 40yd shot.

I prefer my .35Rem with RCBS 200gr FNGC (218gr) at 2,050fps. (39.0gr BLC2) Shoots somewhat flatter.

[Motor]

The reason I asked is,I can't get the accuracy I want from my cast boolits at much over 1200-1400 I have 3 different bullets in jacketed loads that shoot very well & as I have harvested a bear with jacketed bullet, I just wanted to try it with cast.

It's really a matter of alloy vs velocity. Hard alloy fast or slow is going to go through. A soft alloy may not penetrate bone going fast or slow.

What rifle are you using? Unless you are over driving your alloy there is no reason to lose accuracy going faster with that weight boolit. I use the Lee 340gr powder coated in my Marlin Guide Gun. It's a plain base design and is accurate.

Motor

[Rick Hodges]

I have not worked up a load with my 350 Ranch Dog boolets yet. I do load a 385 gr. Mountain Mold boolet of similar design to 1700-1800 fps and would not be afraid to use it at all in my Guide Gun. It is accurate and more than powerful enough. It is a gas checked 15 bhn round flat point design.
224985

[MT Chambers]

I can tell you about a 290 gr. LBT. from .44 mag. Marlin that hit a large black bear and the perfectly mushroomed bullet went through both shoulders and stopped under the hide on the far side. Velocity was 1550 fps.

[hwilliam01]

The reason I asked is,I can't get the accuracy I want from my cast boolits at much over 1200-1400 I have 3 different bullets in jacketed loads that shoot very well & as I have harvested a bear with jacketed bullet, I just wanted to try it with cast.

Yooper003,
I am with you. I have recently purchased a 45-70 band trying various loads to get accuracy for a bear hunt here in Maine in a few weeks. I tried about 1600 fps using a 405 Non Gas Checked bullet bullets and getting very poor accuracy...I couldn't even get it on a 17 inch square target at 50 yards. I switched to Unique and the accuracy improved significantly and will use that for hunting this year (unless I find something better). I'm going to try a heavier bullet (485 gr Gas Checked) and also a lighter bullet (350 gr jacketed). I suspect I am pushing the non gas checked bullet too hard.

Bill

[Yooper003]

I get pretty good accuracy with unique, the best with red dot, around 2" at 100 yd. but velocity down below 1100 ( I think, just guessing) that seems like a raccoon load to me. Working on a 3031 load , 47-52 gr. Right now. Having better luck with hi-tek coated bullets than reg. lube.

[Rufus Krile]

If you put 16gr of TrailBoss behind those 350gr cb's, they'll be doing about 1200fps and that's all you'll ever need. And it won't beat you up or nasty up your rifle...

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yooper,

What kind of 100yd accuracy are you getting??????????

Now, I like accuracy and strive for accuracy but have as yet achieved the level I'd like with the cast bullets.

However, my 45/70 IS a cast bullet gun and will remain so and I have taken a 161yd elk with it.

Working with a RUGER 77/44 and a 275 - 280 grain cast Wide Flat nose in another rifle that WILL be a cast bullet rifle!!!!!!!

My best 100yd groups with the .44 at this point at right about 3", but that little rifles put down two deer, one at 95/100yds lasered and both deer went down where they stood with one shot.

The point I'm trying to make is, with both of these rifles and considering the results I've had and the REASONABLE ranges for which they should be used, groups that would be totally un-satisfactory with my high velocity center fires are perfectly adequate at the shorter ranges.

I have needed to adjust my expectations considering the ranges I'll be shooting with the cast bullets for as nice as it would be to have them grouping at inch and sub inch groups it IS NOT NEEDED.

Are your expectations reasonable?

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Yooper003]

Hey, C D Ol' Coot
You are probably right that I am looking for more accuracy than I should expect. When I first bought the rifle, ( it is a cva scout, stainless,25"bbl.with muzzle break) I bought a 100 rounds of Hornady 325 FTC. They shoot 1 hole at 100 yds.then I wanted to get into handloading for it. Shot about 300 rounds since, loading 5 round combinations
Still looking for that 1 hole group from my hand loads.

[Rick R]

I use the 350gr NOE/Ranch Dog over Varget loaded using Hodgdon J word load data. It shoots sub-2” 100 yard groups in my two Guide Guns, my TC Katahdin, a friends Guide Gun and another friends standard 1895 Marlin rifle. Velocity out of the Guide Guns is in the 1,950fps range. Recoil lets you know when the primer works. ;)

That load should kill any critter not classified as a “pachyderm”.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Black powder velocities or greater will work fine.


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[jmort]

I would go subsonic, around 1,100 fps which should go through and through depending on your alloy.

[Bigslug]

The factory load for the .45-75, developed for the 1876 Winchester, was 350 grains of flat nose (probably about 16-1 alloy) at around 1400 fps. Examples of that platform are known to have participated in the great bison thin-out. I've done nine milk jugs of penetration with a hard alloy flat nose 230 grainer at GI .45 ACP speed, and the same with a 130 grain .32-20/.310 Cadet hybrid at about 1250 fps. Cast solids are GOOD stuff. I doubt you need to overthink the problem for .45-70 on a lil' ole black bear.

[500Linebaughbuck]

trapdoor load will do it.

[maglvr]

800 FPS at the bear = All you need.
Last I knew, how far a bullet travels, once It leaves the animal, didn't help terminal performance :-)

[pls1911]

The 45/70 is a pet cartridge and will certainly serve you well.
"Best" in any criteria depends on many variables, your alloy, range, experience, etc.
As stated above, any of the older "buffalo" rounds will do.
almost any slug 350-400 grains around 1400-1500 fps with any moderate alloy will fully penetrate a 200 poung hog , nose to bug hole, so bear will be no issue if you do your part. You should consider a Ranch Dog gas checked design, now provided by NOE.
I'd recommend a gas checked bullet moderately hard, through the shoulders 4-6" below his back profile line. In my experience, this shoulder/spine shot has always dropped my target in its tracks.
However, I'd defer to more knowledgeable members... like maybe someone whose actually shot bear. Never saw the point myself.
Cheers.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

While I am in no way saying the 45/70 could not have decimated the buffalo herds, the fact of the matter is that by 1873 when the 45/70 came to be, the majority of the big herds were all ready gone. This is easily verified.

However, a black bear is at the bottom of the list that this fine old cartridge can account for within reasonable range and with proper shot placement.

I'll be out again before daylight in the morning hoping to bring home my 4th 45/70 elk. It gets it done if I do my part.!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[crackers]

About 8500 should be enough.