38-70 Barrel in 1886 Winchester

[oldphardt]

Back some years ago there was a thread about the 1886 in 38-70 caliber. Someone (John Tayler?) on the forum said they had the reamer. Need to chase it down and borrow/rent it. I got a 38-70 barrel made to match my '86 cody letter and have been installing it. Finely figured out (my) problem. The guys who made it cut the dovetails in the wrong flat. One flat short of torquing up. Thought it was just a small problem so I trimmed 0.006 off the shoulder so the barrel would torque up tight with dovetails UP. Then had to trim 0.006 off the breach end so the bolt would close. Now it all closes up nice and tight BUT put a case in it and the bolt will not close - Chamber was cut short according to the dovetails. I NEED A REAMER to push the case shoulder forward and deepen the rim cut out. Any one remember who had the reamer?

[bigted]

Dont think i have heard of 38-70. 38-56 but this is a new one for me. Be interested in hearing more about this.

[beltfed]

The 38-56 WCFis a necked down 45-70,
The 38-70WCF is a necked down 45-90. Less common
but was indeed a Win 86 and M1885 Hi Wall chambering.
Some people have built long range BPCR single shot rifles for competition in 38-70

beltfed/arnie

[bigted]

Thanks, that helps AND makes sense. Never too old to learn.

[oldphardt]

Just under 1200 rifles of the 1886 type were made in this caliber. I got the box with all of the parts parts except the barrel and mag tube. Checked with the on line parts mongers and none of them had ever seen an '86 in that cal. Pretty rare so this one is getting a fancy new barrel as soon as I can locate a reamer to fix the makers mistake. Unfortunately they had sent the barrel about 2 months late so I had to wait longer for the time slot to work this one again. I assumed it was a simple fix. Now the barrel is 'modified' and they have not yet responded to my emails. Looked in the archive and this was discussed in 2012.

[skeettx]

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/37-cal-380-cal-nopix-chamber-reamers/3781-38-70-winchester-reamer.html

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?142690-38-70-wcf

[John Taylor]

I have the reamer but I don't loan or rent it out. If you want to send your barrel I will run the reamer in to the depth you want. You just pay return shipping. Also have the 40-70. Both came along at the end of black powder cartridges and had a very short life.

[oldphardt]

John, Been thinking about it - I don't know exactly how much to tell you to take off. The 0.006 was in reality just a guess based on the assumption that the maker slipped one flat of the octagon - 22.5 degrees when they cut the dovetails. The original chamber was cut flush with the back of the barrel but that feature has been carelessly filed away - can't say how much extra was removed. So I hate to get into a 'take a little more off please situation. I could make up a gauge by trimming off some of the rim of an old case 'till the bolt closes. That, I suppose would work.

[Texas by God]

And the 38-72 was a model 1895 chambering, right?

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[ajjohns]

Tex, correct. And 40-72.

[Dusty Ed]

Texas
the 38-72 is a lengthened 38-55.

[Texas by God]

Texas
the 38-72 is a lengthened 38-55.The 38-72? Or 38-70? I thought the 38-72 was a long bigger around case than the 38-55?
Color me confused.

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[indian joe]

Texas
the 38-72 is a lengthened 38-55.

Ed make that a lengthened 38/56? 38/55 is a 30/30 base ....38/56 is a 45/70 base
dont ask how come only one grain powder difference in these - there is no sensible answer to that!
I believe the 38/72 is a necked down 45/90 .......could be wrong this is winchester we talkin about

[indian joe]

The 38-72? Or 38-70? I thought the 38-72 was a long bigger around case than the 38-55?
Color me confused.

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Rub out confused -- I think you correct

[oldphardt]

John, The barrel maker just got back to me. They said they would send me their reamer to take out the 0.006. I am not holding my breath on them but... Thanks for the offer and I am hoping these guys come through. I think they said they have made 3 barrels in the last 20 years in that cal so I am not worried that they might need it real soon.

[oldphardt]

Guys, the -72 cases are similar to the 405 Winchester but with a smaller rim diameter. They are not related to the 45-70 or -90 or 38-55. Don't understand why Winchester had the 40-72 and the 405 Winchester as they are so similar. The 38-55 is similar to the 30-30 but with a longer case.

[oldphardt]

By the way, the 38-55 got renamed and slightly modified. It is now called the 375 Winchester.

[skeettx]

BUT DO NOT fire 375 Win ammo in a normal 38-55!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do however, have an original Ruger #1 in 38-55 but it has the .380 barrel.

[indian joe]

By the way, the 38-55 got renamed and slightly modified. It is now called the 375 Winchester.

NO SIR!!! that is incorrect -- dangerously incorrect - they are two entirely different critters - just happens they live in the same skin.

the 375 Big Bore is a high intensity round, the pressure level pretty much takes a modern steel 94 to its limits - using that round in an early manufacturesd original 38-55 is not the smartest plan around.
Idiots were in charge at Winchester at the time the 375 BB was unleashed - desperate idiots looking for shortcut ways to balance the books - so they changed the 94 action by leaving on some metal that used to be taken off - they beefed it up around the locking lug area and it was an easy fix - but then the stupid bit - lets just overload the 38-55 till it cant take anymore powder and we will tell everybody not to use that overloaded case in the old guns cuz it will fit easy enough - they trimmed a little whisker off the case - new headstamp - lawyers are happy ...........................This was the first time they upgraded a round without doing something to prevent its proper function in the old guns 40-72 has smaller rim than 405 fr instance. Its really amazing that this manouver did not cause lots of trouble among shooters